planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:30 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
In a post, recently, the OP set a poll asking about the modern era and I was very confused as to exactly when this is, considering it's a phrase that's used a lot (and the longer it continues to be used, the era being referred to changes) I wondered if anyone could give some clear example of when particular eras of F1 began and ended?

My suggestion would be that there was definitely a new era ushered in by the corporate sponsorship which turned cars into advertising hoardings (one of the only reasons rear-wings have never been written out of the regulations).

Also, when the technology for wheel-changing (going from four nuts on the wheel to a single hub-nut) allowed for much quicker stops and every team followed suit.

When Brabham elected to stop their cars mid-race for refuelling and we had "strategic" fuel stops for the next 12 years (I'd say that was an era).

Athleticism as part of the professional driver's routine (Schumacher took this to the extreme and now you can't be an F1 driver if you don't spend time in the gym - unlike in James hunt's days)

The "Turbo-era", the "ground-effects era", "The killer years".

Any other suggestions.

Which era are we in now?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7404
Location: Belgium
I think the most important "recent" change is the use of carbon fibre chassis. Since then, F1's relevance to the motor car we all drive has declined beyond meaning.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
Fiki wrote:
I think the most important "recent" change is the use of carbon fibre chassis. Since then, F1's relevance to the motor car we all drive has declined beyond meaning.


It's hard to believe that was 32 years ago :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 3226
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
I've also thought about this recently. For the cars I'd say the modern era started some time between 1970 and 1980, depending on how you weigh up the importance of various factors. If you look at a Lotus 72 it's more alike cars from over 40 years later than just 4 years earlier. But you can judge an era on all sorts. In terms of approach, attitude and ability required of drivers, I'd define era's differently. Likewise the commercial and sporting aspects. But to me it's the cars that matter, on that basis I'd define post war grand prix racing something like this:

Era 1: Pre-WW2 to the late 50's
Defined by big, heavy cars with monster front-mounted engines.

Era 2: Late 50's to late 60's
Defined by light and low cars with rear-mounted, smaller engines and monocoque construction.

Era 3: Late 60's to early 80's
Wings and downforce are introduced and developed. Tyres go big and slick to keep up. Radiators moved. The basic layout and principle hasn't changed since.

Era 4 (or '3A'!): Early 80's to now
Defined by carbon fibre 'chassis' and an advanced understanding of downforce. Radial tyres the norm.

Many new technologies, rulings and innovations (from hugely exotic composites to active suspension to TC, ABS, turbos etc.) have come and gone during these eras. Even though some have come to define an era (ground effects, turbos) they were essentially passing fads, not part of F1's identity like the factors that (I think) define an era.

_________________
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

-Epicurus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 am
Posts: 2891
Balibari wrote:
I've also thought about this recently. For the cars I'd say the modern era started some time between 1970 and 1980, depending on how you weigh up the importance of various factors. If you look at a Lotus 72 it's more alike cars from over 40 years later than just 4 years earlier. But you can judge an era on all sorts. In terms of approach, attitude and ability required of drivers, I'd define era's differently. Likewise the commercial and sporting aspects. But to me it's the cars that matter, on that basis I'd define post war grand prix racing something like this:

Era 1: Pre-WW2 to the late 50's
Defined by big, heavy cars with monster front-mounted engines.

Era 2: Late 50's to late 60's
Defined by light and low cars with rear-mounted, smaller engines and monocoque construction.

Era 3: Late 60's to early 80's
Wings and downforce are introduced and developed. Tyres go big and slick to keep up. Radiators moved. The basic layout and principle hasn't changed since.

Era 4 (or '3A'!): Early 80's to now
Defined by carbon fibre 'chassis' and an advanced understanding of downforce. Radial tyres the norm.

Many new technologies, rulings and innovations (from hugely exotic composites to active suspension to TC, ABS, turbos etc.) have come and gone during these eras. Even though some have come to define an era (ground effects, turbos) they were essentially passing fads, not part of F1's identity like the factors that (I think) define an era.


:thumbup: Pretty much agree with this. The overall layout hasn't really changed since I started watching the sport. Front wing, monocoque, side pods, rear wing etc...only the details...

I would add that the invention of the monocoque was a major step forward in your Era 2. Along with the engine moved to the rear both were major parts of "the basic layout" you speak of. Early 60s-early 80s was almost "the Lotus revolution" although other teams did come up with ideas too.

In recent years most innovations have revolved around rule changes :?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition:
- 5 victories (Mexico '18, Singapore '18, USA '17, USA '16, Mexico '16),
- 6 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship 6th position
- 2016 Championship 9th position


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
Would it be fair to include things like implementation of safety features (HANS, drivers feet behind the axle line, Run-offs and gravel, safety car, number of years since the last fatality) as measures of an era?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 976
I imagine it depends, above everything, on how old you are...

However, I think it was around 1970 that certains changes happened and shaped what is today's F1:

From a technical side:

Aerodynamics: the first full-sized wing apperared in 1968 and, from the very first moment, all teams understood that it would become a major input in the car's performance. Aerodynamics would reach another dimension, as the MAIN factor for speed with the ground effect cars of the late 70's, but this was only the culmination of a process which had started 10 years earlier.

Tyre manufacturers would also start the "tyre-wars" around 1970 (Firestone vs. Goodyear) and became a more and more important feature in a car design. Very quickly, teams started having different kind of tyres for different races and for qualy. Tyres theirselves grew ridiculously wide in a very short space of time, which proves a very quick evolution.

Commercial sponsoring: Lotus (who else?) started the trend in also 1968 with their "Gold Leaf" logos. It would have a huge impact on F1, as sponsors would promote the sport to the general public and lead to the definitive professionalization of the sport. From that moment on, privateer teams would languish and completely dissappeared from the scene in the late 70's. Works teams would become "Corporations" and F1 would become the team's only activity.

Safety: the seventies were still a dangerous period, specially the early seventies, but the foundations for a safer sport were established around 1970, following Jackie Stewart's campaigns. The process would be, sadly, slower than it should have been, but from 1970 to 1976 the old Spa, the old Ring, Montjuïch, Rouen-les-Essarts and Mont-Tremblant would disappear for the Championship and others (such as Zandvoort) were deeply improved. Of course, they were all amazing tracks for fans, but not suitable for a (relativley) safe F1. Other safety issues, like the safety car or the flexible fuel tanks originated also in the very early 70's.

So, my "modern era" starts in 1970.

Oh, the fact that I started following F1 at that time has nothing to see with it, of course ! ;)

_________________
I'm a racing driver. Always was, always will be.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:43 pm
Posts: 74
To me, the modern era is the "Flat Bottom" era beginning in 1983. This just happens to also be the time during which carbon fiber chassis and pushrod/pullrod suspensions were widely adopted. Although the regulations have been tweaked and the concept refined for three decades, John Barnard's McLaren MP/4-1C is very much a modern F1 car, and materially different from the ground effect cars that preceded it. The only thing it's lacking is the "high nose," but I don't think that single innovation was significant enough to define a new era. Ditto the turbo engines. The follow-on MP/4-2 was little more than its predecessor with a turbo engine, and that was true right to the end of the "turbo era." The later 3.0 liter V-10s raced with more power than the turbos (but the turbo's had more for qualifying), but power alone does not define an era. Ditto grooved tires, which were just a way to slow the cars down, but did not fundamentally change the cars. I would love to see more technical freedom in the regulations, but it seems the FAI's goal is to push the designers further down a narrowing funnel of design options. I suppose this keeps the racing close, but it drives the cost of increased performance through the roof because of the enormous effort now required to make tiny gains. There is just no room in the regs for "the next ground effect." Today, a turning vane or a new wing element is considered a big deal while the average spectator/fan would have trouble seeing the difference from ten feet away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 1804
I'd say the modern era started when Senna died.

Since Imola 1994 there's been a shift in the attitude towards safety for the better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 222
For me, the modern era is 1989 on, in other words when the Turbo engines where first banned. This shepherded in the era of electronics, mastery of aerodynamics and the commencing of the final destruction of the small time garagistes (final hurrahs for the Colonis, Eurobruns, Fortis and Andrea Modas showed their time had passed.) No longer could you buy an off the shelf engine, a certain type of gearbox and be sure of having a shot unless you had something else pretty special up your sleeve.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:48 pm
Posts: 157
GingerFurball wrote:
I'd say the modern era started when Senna died.

Since Imola 1994 there's been a shift in the attitude towards safety for the better.


This is what i was thinking too.

High cockpit sides, and a total focus on safety for the driver, even prioritised over sheer speed. I would say that is the definition of the 'current' era.

Pre '95 cars just look dangerous to me now! I think it was on the Mika Hakkinen F1 Legends show on Sky, they had a clip of the '93 McLaren and you could see the drivers neck! Made me stop and think for a second.

_________________
Oooh I'm so badass... I've got a z in my name.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 463
Location: Canada
2002 for me, cuz thats when i started to follow F1.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:57 am
Posts: 926
Location: Brazil
Modern era depends on how you view it. An aerodynamicist will tell you it was when they banned ground effects, an engine specialist will tell you it was when turbos were banned. In terms of driver talent, it started with the death of Senna.

_________________
Image

"Ask any racer, any real racer... It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning." (Dominic Toretto, "The Fast and The Furious")


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14261
I think of it as post turbo so 1989 on wards.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 2953
Location: UK
Warnzee wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
I'd say the modern era started when Senna died.

Since Imola 1994 there's been a shift in the attitude towards safety for the better.


This is what i was thinking too.

High cockpit sides, and a total focus on safety for the driver, even prioritised over sheer speed. I would say that is the definition of the 'current' era.

Pre '95 cars just look dangerous to me now! I think it was on the Mika Hakkinen F1 Legends show on Sky, they had a clip of the '93 McLaren and you could see the drivers neck! Made me stop and think for a second.

Agreed. It's also around the time where the governing body started having to really restrict the design of the cars to keep speeds in check (I'm thinking specifically of the banning of active suspension, although admittedly ground effects were banned 10 years previously). Personally that's also roughly about the time I started watching so from my point of view anything after 94 is 'modern' while anything that came before is ancient history that I only ever hear about in books.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
Could it be that there are eras dependent on the leader of the FIA?

The Balestre era, the Mosley era and now the Todt era?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1326
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think of it as post turbo so 1989 on wards.

I'd probably agree with this.

Does this mean the modern era ends in 2014? :)

_________________
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8067
Would it not be since a major reg change? for instance, next year starts a new era, as did the ban on turbo, the plank etc?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:35 pm
Posts: 1081
should we think about years of active suspension as a separate era? difficult to say, but it was definitely different from anything today

_________________
We are worse than animals, we hunger for the kill
We put our faith in maniacs the triumph of the will
We kill for money, wealth and lust, for this we should be damned
We are disease upon the world, brotherhood of man


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 pm
Posts: 1061
I think late 90's-now is a seperate "era" from late 80's/early 90's.

I watched the 96 Monaco race on Sky the other day and the cars were so much simpler than they were even 5 or 6 years later (aerodynamically). Computerisation also changed the sport, and that is a very modern thing.

_________________
Leave me alone.....I know what I'm doing


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group