planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:16 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:40 am 
On Sunday Mattias Ekström won the DTM race but when he ran to the barrier to share his happiness, this happened.

Image

Someone poured water into his pocket, in an attempt to add weight.

Quote:
Audi driver Mattias Ekström has lost his victory in the fifth DTM round at the Norisring. After the Swede illegitimately had water poured into the pockets of his race suit in parc fermé in Nuremberg on his 35th birthday, he was excluded from the race by the stewards because of an infringement of the parc fermé rules. As a result, victory went to Mercedes-Benz driver Robert Wickens from Canada, who scored his maiden DTM race win and brought the brand from Stuttgart its eleventh consecutive success at the Norisring.

http://www.dtm.com/en/News/Mattias-Ekstroem-loses-Norisring-victory-1039.html


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 164
That's crazy!!! If I was Audi I'd try to sue the guy who poured that water.
If I was mattias I'd offer to go to the weigh-in naked, just in an effort to prove you didn't gain any weight from that water.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:02 pm
Posts: 336
Wow that sucks.. Who decided to do that anyway?? Around all those people with cameras?? o_o

_________________
VettelRaikkonenNasr


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 2904
Here's a video that's been skipped to the "incident"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... sw#t=5559s

In my view that DQ is completely deserved, it was deliberate and looked very suspicious. For those that don't know the guy who was pouring the water was Ekström's father.

_________________
Danger is real, fear is choice.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Round Result: 1st (Monaco '12 & '15, Silverstone '14, Austria '15, Mexico '15, China '16)
Podiums: 11
2018 Championship Standing: oh jeez...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:27 am
Posts: 670
Wait if he didn't do that will he still get that penalty or because of this incident he got it?

_________________
Even the best of drivers crash, stay safe and be responsible!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 4219
Looking at the size of the bottle, it's probably 500ml. That's gonna be roughly 500g of water. Would that really be a significant advantage? According to the DTM website, the weight limit is 1110kg. 0.5kg is such a small fraction I'm not sure you could really notice it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 2904
mac_d wrote:
Looking at the size of the bottle, it's probably 500ml. That's gonna be roughly 500g of water. Would that really be a significant advantage? According to the DTM website, the weight limit is 1110kg. 0.5kg is such a small fraction I'm not sure you could really notice it.

Regardless of how much it weighs its still an attempt to skew the post race parc ferme weight results and thus should be penalised to the same extent regardless if its water or someone carrying led balls in their pockets.

The amount you try to gain by breaking the rules is irrelevant, if you break the rules you have broken the rules.

_________________
Danger is real, fear is choice.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Round Result: 1st (Monaco '12 & '15, Silverstone '14, Austria '15, Mexico '15, China '16)
Podiums: 11
2018 Championship Standing: oh jeez...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9393
8O :o

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:25 pm
Posts: 1201
Location: Croatia
Why so obvious???

_________________
H&H


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11411
tmzxaar wrote:
Why so obvious???


This.

And why object? This seems like a stupid way of breaking the rules, with an enfollowing and straightforward punishment...

_________________
Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
So, has anybody actually confirmed why that guy (was it his dad?) was pouring water into his pocket? If it was a deliberate act of cheating then there will be repercussions throughout the whole of motorsport and F1 parc ferme celebrations.

I've always been suspicious of what the team members could be getting up to in those post-race embraces. Often the driver's helmet gets passed over the barriers and who knows what gets handed back?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:20 am
Posts: 2706
Location: Herts, UK
flyboy10 wrote:
Often the driver's helmet gets passed over the barriers and who knows what gets handed back?

The drivers helmet is handed over AFTER the weight check - never, ever before as that would completely nullify the purpose of the weight check.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:01 am
Posts: 940
I think this is going to be interesting to find out who that guy was first...

I mean, was he a member of the Audi team, or was he someone else who was trying to get Ekstrom DQ'd...

:? :? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5232
I wonder if they used the excuse that he needed his gentleman's area cooling down?

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5232
Gothalamide wrote:
I think this is going to be interesting to find out who that guy was first...

I mean, was he a member of the Audi team, or was he someone else who was trying to get Ekstrom DQ'd...

:? :? :?

read specdecible's post earlier, it was Ekstrom's father.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9393
I'm confused, did they think they were running underweight, or why the water?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:50 pm
Posts: 225
Benjamin3 wrote:
That's crazy!!! If I was Audi I'd try to sue the guy who poured that water.
If I was mattias I'd offer to go to the weigh-in naked, just in an effort to prove you didn't gain any weight from that water.


OMG,,are you thinking this is just some random event.? If he thought he could make the weight they wouldnt have to resort to these measures lool. :?: :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:38 pm
Posts: 2555
specdecible wrote:
Here's a video that's been skipped to the "incident"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... sw#t=5559s

In my view that DQ is completely deserved, it was deliberate and looked very suspicious. For those that don't know the guy who was pouring the water was Ekström's father.


Can't watch the video in my country, but is it confirmed it was his father? If so where?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 2949
Maybe he was just trying to pull the classic "pour water on someone's crotch and claim they've pee'd themselves" prank...

_________________
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

"It's hammer time!"

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
RickM wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
Often the driver's helmet gets passed over the barriers and who knows what gets handed back?

The drivers helmet is handed over AFTER the weight check - never, ever before as that would completely nullify the purpose of the weight check.


Are you saying I've never seen that happen?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:54 am
Posts: 2432
Location: Austria
a german newspaper said it was 2 bottles that were actually placed in his pockets, not just the water pured...

why does he even have pockets in the first place? he isn't going to take anything with him, is he?
flyboy10 wrote:
Are you saying I've never seen that happen?

thinking of it - i can't say i'm 100% sure... i do recall that usually the helmets are taken by a team-member directly after the check...

_________________
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 1279
seems like blatant cheating to me. I hope we never see it again!
as for the actual weight, whether its half a kilo or a full kilo - that much will make a difference over a race distance - maybe only a second or three - but still a difference- even to the point that they maybe needed a kilo or two less fuel too?
It smacks that they knew they were potentially underweight, does it not?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:38 pm
Posts: 2555
Who was it in F1 that was on the scale with a wet towel a while back? Alonso? Hamilton?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2637
Ban pockets. What purpose do pockets have on a race driving suit?

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 4219
specdecible wrote:
mac_d wrote:
Looking at the size of the bottle, it's probably 500ml. That's gonna be roughly 500g of water. Would that really be a significant advantage? According to the DTM website, the weight limit is 1110kg. 0.5kg is such a small fraction I'm not sure you could really notice it.

Regardless of how much it weighs its still an attempt to skew the post race parc ferme weight results and thus should be penalised to the same extent regardless if its water or someone carrying led balls in their pockets.

The amount you try to gain by breaking the rules is irrelevant, if you break the rules you have broken the rules.


To clarify, my point was the risk (getting caught and kicked out) wasn't a good deal given the absolute miniscule advantage. Given the lack of any subtlety, I don't see why anyone could think this was even close to being a good idea. My original statement wasn't to defend the actions as being of no gain, it was to slate the action for being of no gain. If you are going to cheat, go big and rig the race. At least you have something substantial to gain. Shaving weight by up to 0.05% or whatever that works out as is not worth the high risk of getting busted.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:01 am
Posts: 940
minchy wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
I think this is going to be interesting to find out who that guy was first...

I mean, was he a member of the Audi team, or was he someone else who was trying to get Ekstrom DQ'd...

:? :? :?

read specdecible's post earlier, it was Ekstrom's father.


I missed that bit... Oops!!!!


As for the debate about why risk it, etc... Surely it's better to risk being slightly underweight and getting a time penalty than doing this and risking outright DQ... Bloody ridiculous thing to try and do if you ask me...

:? :? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
That's unbelievable!

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9393
Maybe he should've thought of the fact that someone will probably be taking photos... ;)

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:30 pm
Posts: 760
Location: East Sussex, UK
Maybe he was just being fatherly and just wanted to give his son some water to hydrate? :D (but probably not)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1326
So stupid and so obvious.

However, I've often joked while watching about team members slipping lead weights into drivers pockets during celebrations in parc ferme. This makes me a just a tiny bit genuinely suspicious :)

_________________
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:27 pm
Posts: 15
Not like a red bull team to try to bend the rules... 8O ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:22 am
Posts: 1849
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I don't know... This seems that blatantly obvious that I almost think it could have been an honest mistake. His father putting 2 bottles of water in his pockets after a long race, under any other circumstances would be nothing out of the ordinary. And with all the adrenaline and cheering with his team maybe ekstrom didn't realise. Brain fade on both parts?... But for none of the team to try to stop him if they noticed is strange. Seems suss... But it's so stupid

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Podiums: 1st Spa '16, 1st Bahrain '15, 1st China '14, 1st Malaysia '14
Championship position 2014: 13th | | 2015: 10th (heading the right way)
PF1 Autosport GP Predictor 2014: Second 2015: Second


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 5402
I haven't read any official statement that this act (by his father?) was an attempt to increase the weight of the driver by adding water ballast.

Although it's almost impossible to think what else could have been going on, I don't think it's 100% certain that this was anything more or less sinister.

However, after much thought, I did wonder what else could be happening....

Maybe the driver had peed his pants and didn't want anyone to notice. Nobody's accused the driver of wetting himself during the race so, if that was the reason he had water poured over this area, the team did a great job of diverting attention away from that ;) Pity it cost him a race win on his birthday.

Maybe he got so excited at winning on his birthday that he got inappropriately aroused in the trouser area and his dad helped him out by giving him a miniature cold shower?

Maybe the bottle wasn't full of water but rather was filled with air and his dad was pumping him up to the correct pressure after the race (spot the pumping action.

Maybe it's a practical joke that Swedes play on each other on their birthdays, pouring water in their pockets so it looks/feels like they've peed themselves?

Maybe it wasn't water and it's some really dodgy weird practice that Swedes get up to when they're alone but this got out into the public domain?

What else do you think COULD have been happening?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 585
Mr-E wrote:
Who was it in F1 that was on the scale with a wet towel a while back? Alonso? Hamilton?

I remember this. Alonso after the soon to become controversial Singapore gp 2008.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:59 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Round the Bend
specdecible wrote:
mac_d wrote:
Looking at the size of the bottle, it's probably 500ml. That's gonna be roughly 500g of water. Would that really be a significant advantage? According to the DTM website, the weight limit is 1110kg. 0.5kg is such a small fraction I'm not sure you could really notice it.

Regardless of how much it weighs its still an attempt to skew the post race parc ferme weight results...

Was it? Or was it an attempt to have Ekstrom disqualified?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:29 pm 
Either way, drivers are encouraged to proceed directy from their cars to the weight scale, that is what they should do. Just like a soccer player who jumps into the stands to celebrate a goal, he knows he is taking a risk at a penalty.

You see this a lot in Formula One, where Charlie Whiting is right there to guide the drivers to the weigh scale, as well as watch for this kind of violation. The thing to watch for is to see if Formula One drivers learn from this lesson, and get directly out of their cars and go directly to the weigh scales instead of going to the barrier to get hugs.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:59 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: Round the Bend
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Either way, drivers are encouraged to proceed directy from their cars to the weight scale, that is what they should do. Just like a soccer player who jumps into the stands to celebrate a goal, he knows he is taking a risk at a penalty.

You see this a lot in Formula One, where Charlie Whiting is right there to guide the drivers to the weigh scale, as well as watch for this kind of violation. The thing to watch for is to see if Formula One drivers learn from this lesson, and get directly out of their cars and go directly to the weigh scales instead of going to the barrier to get hugs.

What is wrong with me that, try as I might, I simply can't fathom the line of reasoning which endorses strict adherence to a procedure so rigid it provides no scope for human expression?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 2823
Location: Perth, Australia
:lol: That was so obvious it was comical. His father should be banned from all FIA sanctioned events. They can do it to members of the media, I'm sure they can do it to anybody they wish.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:26 am
Posts: 1768
Location: UK
I am missing the plot here? Did he weigh in with the bottles in hs pockets? If not then was this just a concerned father giving his son some water after a hot race?


Edit: as Audi are appealing this could well be thrown out.

_________________
Night is a very dark time for me


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:38 pm
Posts: 2555
I ask again.. Can someone please give a source where it says it's Ekström's dad? Cause I can't find any.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group