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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:09 am 
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darksides wrote:
Vettel beat Mark this season with luck and team favouritism... although any of the top 6 with a bit of extra luck could've won this season, take Alonso, super consistent in a reliable but barely above average paced car, only lost by 3 points.

Vettel generally qualified better than Mark, and had better starts than Mark. The team can skew both of those things, and they did more often than not.

I hope Vettel matures at a faster rate because he still seems like a child throwing tantrums most of the time, it's the biggest reason why I dislike him.

Mark still proved he has the pace to fight with the best this season, a good comeback from last seasons woes. 2013 is where he needs to get more consitency so he is at the pointy end of the WDC come seasons end.

But in another thread you reasoned that Alonso only passes Mark... " Fernando getting past Mark was PURELY the RBR's horrible top speed and gearing compared to Ferrari's straight line rocket".
And to somehow try and denigrate Vettel's "3point wdc" doesn't do Mark any favours when he finished a staggering 99 points behind...which is it? Vettel driving such a massively dominant car and only winning by 3 points must surely mean that Webber driving the same car being obviously several levals below other top drivers.....after 3 years of the excuses they become rather meaningless.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:18 am 
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Players99 wrote:
"stomped"........qualifying was 5 apiece.


1. Australia - Webber (despite no KERS)
2. Malaysia - Webber
3. China - Webber
4. Bahrain - Vettel
5. Spain - N/A (RBR left Webber in the garage for Q3, he had been quicker of the two until that point)
6. Monaco - Webber
7. Canada - Vettel
8. Europe - N/A (Webber had no DRS so could not compete, 1.3 seconds lost, started 19th)
9. Britain - Webber
10. Germany - Vettel


For the sake of completeness, the second half went like this:

11. Hungary - Vettel
12. Belgium - Webber
13. Italy - Vettel
14. Singapore - Vettel
15. Japan - Vettel
16. Korea - Webber
17. India - Vettel
18. ABD - Webber
19. USA - Vettel
20. Brazil - Webber

I make it 9-9 without the two GPs where MW had car/team issues - just as fast as Vettel and faster when the car wasn't 'on it' earlier in the season.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:34 am 
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Unfortunately for Mark the season of Red Bull favoring Vettel has left him some distance off. I've seen his driving, he has put in plenty of good races and Red Bull have just thrown him to the wolves.

Like at Hungary, they pitted him unnecessarily to get him out of Vettel's way just to get him stuck behind slower cars. Or at Singapore, they followed the most retarded pit strategy known to man to get him somehow stuck dead last at the end. Or Abu Dhabi. Again, pitting him out of Seb's way resulting in a DNF for Mark.

His Brazilian GP was ruined by Kobayashi, but despite the fact Mark avoided seb all race he still trounced him in the end.

Its just been such a frustrating second half of the year for Mark, mostly caused by Red Bull treating him as an also ran for Sebastian.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:59 am 
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Players99 wrote:
But in another thread you reasoned that Alonso only passes Mark... " Fernando getting past Mark was PURELY the RBR's horrible top speed and gearing compared to Ferrari's straight line rocket".
And to somehow try and denigrate Vettel's "3point wdc" doesn't do Mark any favours when he finished a staggering 99 points behind...which is it? Vettel driving such a massively dominant car and only winning by 3 points must surely mean that Webber driving the same car being obviously several levals below other top drivers.....after 3 years of the excuses they become rather meaningless.


Vettel deserved to win, Webber didn't. That much is black and white. If you remove any intra-team advantage..mostly boils down to consistency, of qualifying performance and off the start line.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:38 am 
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infi24r wrote:
Like at Hungary, they pitted him unnecessarily to get him out of Vettel's way just to get him stuck behind slower cars. Or at Singapore, they followed the most retarded pit strategy known to man to get him somehow stuck dead last at the end. Or Abu Dhabi. Again, pitting him out of Seb's way resulting in a DNF for Mark.

His Brazilian GP was ruined by Kobayashi, but despite the fact Mark avoided seb all race he still trounced him in the end.


Let's see, Web gets a non-optimal strategy and it's RB ruining his race. Vet gets the wrong tires in Brazil and had to stop again, losing more than 30 seconds overall, but that was Web trouncing Vet ;) Very objective view. Without the extra pitstop, Vettel would have been on the podium, given his excellent speed in the wet, even with the damaged car.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:56 am 
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There was a point in the race where Mark pitted for tyres in two consecutive laps, so yes, he did trounce him.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:38 pm 
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just seen the pic Mark posted on twitter of the rod removed from his leg 8O


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:02 pm 
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hundleton1 wrote:
just seen the pic Mark posted on twitter of the rod removed from his leg 8O

Twas a big rod wasn't it :-P
at least you don't need your right foot much for driving an F1 car :-|

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Mark Webber is, The Terminator.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:48 am 
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I can't even visit this thread any more. I feel like I should put in a disclaimer stating that "the views expressed by certain deluded Webber fans do not necessarily represent the views of all of his supporters", as some of what I'm reading is unbelievable! It's one rule for Webber and another for everyone else. You're making the rest of us look bad! Even Webber himself would probably read this and laugh his donkey off!

Vettel is the better driver. Sure, I agree that he's favoured in the team but that does not account for his soundly beating Webber every year that they've been teammates. This should have hit home by now. Y'all carry on though and keep patting each other's backs.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:07 am 
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Centauri wrote:
I can't even visit this thread any more.

You can, unfortunately. :) joking obviously, it was too easy to pass up

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:47 pm 
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If I based my choice of favourite driver on personality and ethical grounding, I think I'd have to go for Mark. A great article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21240896


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:47 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
If I based my choice of favourite driver on personality and ethical grounding, I think I'd have to go for Mark. A great article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21240896

I noticed at the end that he will no longer be writing for the BBC and that he is calling a halt to his column. Seems kind of odd given he didn't specify a reason.

Anyway, Mark's also been in the news today about his response to Marko...

Quote:
“Look, everyone at this level has their own agendas and it’s been evident for a long time now that I’ve never been a part of Marko’s.”


I think Marko will fire back with all guns blazing, he is the type to react strongly. I really feel this year will be Webber's last at Red Bull. Really hope he gets a McLaren drive in 2014.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:58 am 
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fieldstvl wrote:
If I based my choice of favourite driver on personality and ethical grounding, I think I'd have to go for Mark. A great article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21240896


That's a seriously great read. We will be poorer without Mark in F1, so I hope he can hang around for years to come in whatever capacity..

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:04 am 
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From http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21247141

Quote:
and I also have a new race engineer in Simon Rennie (formerly of Lotus).


Maybe he'll get some better starts this year??

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:17 am 
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Mark Webber is faster than bare results show; his 2010 season was so close to bagging the WDC, he virtually equalled Vettel in every measure (speed, results,etc). Mark has put in some exceptional races , Silverstone with the old wing, Monaco twice, in 2011 with Rosberg breathing down his neck in a faster car and on a greasy track near the end. Not a single mistake.

Imo the effect of being a number two driver has a huge (negative) effect on results. It was the same with Coulthard in 1998-2000, when he was running so close to Hakkinen in speed. DC also often raced so well: at Monaco and elsewhere, yet the WDC points and results do not show the closeness in performance to their number ones.

The amount of media attention/time the number one drivers get is disproportiionate, so the 'other' drivers are significantly and unrealistically downgraded in perceptions.

Good to have threads on such drivers as MW.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:36 am 
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POBRatings wrote:
Mark Webber is faster than bare results show; his 2010 season was so close to bagging the WDC, he virtually equalled Vettel in every measure (speed, results,etc). Mark has put in some exceptional races , Silverstone with the old wing, Monaco twice, in 2011 with Rosberg breathing down his neck in a faster car and on a greasy track near the end. Not a single mistake.

Imo the effect of being a number two driver has a huge (negative) effect on results. It was the same with Coulthard in 1998-2000, when he was running so close to Hakkinen in speed. DC also often raced so well: at Monaco and elsewhere, yet the WDC points and results do not show the closeness in performance to their number ones.

The amount of media attention/time the number one drivers get is disproportiionate, so the 'other' drivers are significantly and unrealistically downgraded in perceptions.

Good to have threads on such drivers as MW.



And even DC admits that Mark is a much better driver than he ever was.Korea 2010 was such a shame for Webber.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:02 pm 
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So..Webber's 2013 season gets underway.

No Australian has ever won the Australian GP, or even managed a podium there. The best ever result is a 4th place by MW last year.

I'm not sure what to make of the two free practice sessions other than to note that RBR appears to have a very good package once again. My gut feeling says it will be Vettel on pole, split with Webber in 3rd or 4th.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:14 am 
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Centauri wrote:
All these official threads popping up, and none yet for my favourite driver, Mark Webber!

There has been plenty of discussion as to whether Mark can challenge Sebastian this year. I certainly hope he can, or at the very least improve over his 2011 performance, which overall was pretty strong - it just was made to look bad by Vettel's excellent campaign!

I frequently keep hearing that various changes to the cars/rules & regs may better suit Webber this year - can anyone elaborate on this for me?


This article puts it really well - Mark has a lot of challenges but he certainly can do it...
Quote:
The Aussie super-hero faces one of the largest challenges of his driving career. He has the maturity to be calm, but below his still waters is a deeper torrent. At 36, despite feeling young, Webber is forced to confront his fate.

http://f1cut.com/can-the-australian-do-it/


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:41 am 
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Webber qualifies 2nd, lost a bit but would not have got pole anyway. Still, no KERS problems in quali, fingers crossed for a good start for a change.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:58 am 
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Webber's tyres look in a lot better condition then Sebastians, Vettel did 2 flyers, Webber only did 1. Also Webber has the inside line and there shouldn't be too much difference between either side of the grid, lets hope for a good start.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:13 am 
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specdecible wrote:
Webber's tyres look in a lot better condition then Sebastians, Vettel did 2 flyers, Webber only did 1. Also Webber has the inside line and there shouldn't be too much difference between either side of the grid, lets hope for a good start.

A decent start and no technical issues is all I ask. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:38 am 
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Webber was 0.9 off Vettel in 2011 in Australia, so that holds well for a decent season from Mark.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:42 am 
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Webber was ahead of Vettel after the first 2 sectors, it would've been close but I think Vetter still would've gotten pole because of his last sector.

I did notice Seb go purple in his in lap so he had wound up just in case Webber beat him lol, sneaky lovely individual.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:42 am 
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lamo wrote:
Webber was 0.9 off Vettel in 2011 in Australia, so that holds well for a decent season from Mark.

Webber lost his time in the second to last corner, went wide. It was very close between the two on their first runs until that mistake so it's a much better start than 2011.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:43 am 
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lamo wrote:
Webber was 0.9 off Vettel in 2011 in Australia, so that holds well for a decent season from Mark.

Yea, probably he will finally get that 2nd place in WC after all...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:44 am 
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darksides wrote:
Webber was ahead of Vettel after the first 2 sectors, it would've been close but I think Vetter still would've gotten pole because of his last sector.

I did notice Seb go purple in his in lap so he had wound up just in case Webber beat him lol, sneaky lovely individual.

The way qualifying unfolded Vettel would have had pole regardless, crossing the line just at the right moment pretty much guaranteed it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:07 am 
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Another season of going backwards at the starts then... :(

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:20 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Another season of going backwards at the starts then... :(

Then the front jack also dropped on him in the pitstop loosing him heaps of time therefore falling behind Button, not coming together at all!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:35 am 
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Decent save in the end from Webber, basically went from 7th to 6th despite the poor stop and timing on the stop.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:50 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Decent save in the end from Webber, basically went from 7th to 6th despite the poor stop and timing on the stop.



not to mention his usual terrible start


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:51 am 
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sivapc wrote:
not to mention his usual terrible start

I just take it for granted now. It would have been interesting to see where he would have ended up if he had held on to the 2nd spot. Any thoughts on that anyone?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:04 am 
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Lost kers and telemetry right before race start. Makes the start pretty tough. His start looked OK the car didn't bog down or anything but without kers he was a sitting duck.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:05 am 
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stitch512 wrote:
Lost kers and telemetry right before race start. Makes the start pretty tough. His start looked OK the car didn't bog down or anything but without kers he was a sitting duck.

Are you serious? ffs. I really hope he moves teams next year.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:51 am 
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Quote:
"Before the race even started we had a lot of problems getting the telemetry from the cars to the pits. We lost KERS (the car's kinetic energy recovery system), we lost quite a lot of things for the start," Webber said.

"We were on the ropes really before the lights went out.

"And then we went quite heavy on that first set of tyres."

Webber's awful start was then followed by an uncharacteristically slow pit stop - one of three his Red Bull had to make for tyres as the car struggled to live with the new Pirellis being used in the sport this year.

But despite all that, Webber believed he and his car were off the pace, even if he had managed a better start and with better tyre life.

"It looked like we were not that quick anyway to challenge for the win as a team. But of all the times in Melbourne I needed a safety car or something to spice it up, it never came.

"It's disappointing not to get more out of it."

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:02 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Quote:
"Before the race even started we had a lot of problems getting the telemetry from the cars to the pits. We lost KERS (the car's kinetic energy recovery system), we lost quite a lot of things for the start," Webber said.

"We were on the ropes really before the lights went out.

"And then we went quite heavy on that first set of tyres."

Webber's awful start was then followed by an uncharacteristically slow pit stop - one of three his Red Bull had to make for tyres as the car struggled to live with the new Pirellis being used in the sport this year.

But despite all that, Webber believed he and his car were off the pace, even if he had managed a better start and with better tyre life.

"It looked like we were not that quick anyway to challenge for the win as a team. But of all the times in Melbourne I needed a safety car or something to spice it up, it never came.

"It's disappointing not to get more out of it."


And Sebs worked perfectly and great pit stops for him too ... So not his fault a bad start.. Trying to defend against other cars off the line all who had an extra 80bhp... Bloody strong drive in the circumstances I'd say ...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:11 am 
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sivapc wrote:
Formula1Fan. wrote:
Decent save in the end from Webber, basically went from 7th to 6th despite the poor stop and timing on the stop.



not to mention his usual terrible start


Perhaps look for the reason before just posting poorly informed snide comments... No KERS..no telemetry ... Before the start and for the rest of the race...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:50 am 
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Great drive by Webber considering the circumstances. Yet, those were expected since he always has rotten luck in Melbourne. Same as Rubens had at Interlagos


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Alesi4ever wrote:
Great drive by Webber considering the circumstances. Yet, those were expected since he always has rotten luck in Melbourne. Same as Rubens had at Interlagos

His luck isn't great anywhere but then it's not really bad luck, it's neglect on the part of his team.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:50 pm 
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I really enjoyed that pass Webber completed towards the end of the race against the Force India car. That had me jumping from my seat! Amazing~


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