planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:15 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:49 pm
Posts: 121
Hypothetical question.

Is it possible for McLaren to give Honda a 2014 chassis part way through the season for them to perform 2015 engine testing.

If Honda provide all of the technical resource including driver and it can be proved that there is no feedback to McLaren regarding the chassis, what is to stop them?

If Honda were to build themselves a car, I'm pretty sure there is nothing to stop them.

I realise tyres would be an issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:22 am
Posts: 1849
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Any form of testing using a current chassis is banned, doesn't matter whether it is by the team themselves or third parties. If they were able to do this then every team would basically have unlimited testing available to them year round provided they simply contracted it out. Honda can however continue to test the engine and continue to develop it through the year long after the other engine manufacturers have homulgated their engines toward the end of this month.

There's nothing stopping Honda strapping their engine into a test mule and testing it on track like Ferrari has already done, but it can't be an F1 chassis or representative of one.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Podiums: 1st Spa '16, 1st Bahrain '15, 1st China '14, 1st Malaysia '14
Championship position 2014: 13th | | 2015: 10th (heading the right way)
PF1 Autosport GP Predictor 2014: Second 2015: Second


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 pm
Posts: 1061
Blackhander wrote:
Any form of testing using a current chassis is banned


Well not this year. There are 3/4 in season tests planned for 2014.

Would Mclaren be permitted to fit a Honda engine into their car for one of these tests?

_________________
Leave me alone.....I know what I'm doing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 151
AFCTUJacko wrote:
Blackhander wrote:
Any form of testing using a current chassis is banned


Well not this year. There are 3/4 in season tests planned for 2014.

Would Mclaren be permitted to fit a Honda engine into their car for one of these tests?



Don't know if Mercedes will agree with allowing that.

It has been done before, back in '93 Senna tested an un livered McLaren fitted with a Lamborghini V12, whilst the team was racing with Ford V8's. Though the testing rules were different back then (in that there weren't any)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:21 am 
What McLaren can do is pass along to Honda their tentative plans for the 2015 chassis. That way Honda can construct a boilerplate chassis to test the engine under as realistic conditions as possible. McLaren can also pass along data relating to chassis forces for each track, thus submitting the test engines to realistic bumps and such. But I strongly suspect that McLaren are obligated by contract to Mercedes to retain any torque measurements, temperatures, anything relating to the power plant.

Mercedes are bound by contract to deliver to McLaren 2014 power plants that are good, and McLaren are bound to keep any engine information confidential.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 2784
Location: Perth, Australia
It's an interesting question. Would it be possible for Mclaren to sell a car to Honda, who could then use it at their own free will? Of course they wouldn't have the tyres but they might get a bit of an idea as to how their progress is coming.

Or do the FIA have a sort of copyright over each design submitted by each team and any reproduction by an unauthorised manufacturer (that is, any non-F1 company) be infringing on ownership rights? Peobably not anything close, but I'm keen on finding out about the scenario if anybody knows.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:15 am
Posts: 110
Honda could use one of their old cars when they used to be in F1. Aside from packaging, they shouldnt be that concered about aero. They just need some representative laptime mileage. Then they can just run 2014 levels of down force.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:49 pm
Posts: 371
could they test the engine on a modified indycar?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:08 pm
Posts: 369
tlux wrote:
Honda could use one of their old cars when they used to be in F1. Aside from packaging, they shouldnt be that concered about aero. They just need some representative laptime mileage. Then they can just run 2014 levels of down force.

im sure they can i remember reading as long as its least 2 year below the current one as there would be no real data to get

i think redbull done it last year to test their tyres

_________________
People have short memory's these days and want spoon fed, Do your own research.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11411
Toby. wrote:
It's an interesting question. Would it be possible for Mclaren to sell a car to Honda, who could then use it at their own free will?


From the Sporting Regs 2014, 22.1:

Quote:
s. No competitor may sell or make available a car of the current year to any third party without the full knowledge of the FIA.


The wording in this one, however, seems quite weird. I think it's the FIA's intent that this shouldn't happen, but if I'm honest this part pretty much says that you can do it if you fully inform the FIA.

_________________
Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:44 am
Posts: 393
Honda could just build a car to the current F1 spec and drive that around as much as they like.

Now since they are outside of competition rules they do not require any checks to be made by the FIA on the car so if it had the same DNA as the McLaren by "coincidence" the FIA would have absolutely no way of knowing and could not enforce rules against Honda as long as McLaren keep their distance


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:22 pm
Posts: 57
ForTheLoveOfRacing wrote:
Honda could just build a car to the current F1 spec and drive that around as much as they like.

Now since they are outside of competition rules they do not require any checks to be made by the FIA on the car so if it had the same DNA as the McLaren by "coincidence" the FIA would have absolutely no way of knowing and could not enforce rules against Honda as long as McLaren keep their distance


Absolutely correct. Honda are not bound by any rules at all currently - FIA or otherwise - so throughout 2014 they can do what they like to develop their engine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:39 am
Posts: 768
johnp wrote:
could they test the engine on a modified indycar?


Good question but I think they would rather it be in an F1 car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:49 pm
Posts: 121
mds wrote:
Toby. wrote:
It's an interesting question. Would it be possible for Mclaren to sell a car to Honda, who could then use it at their own free will?


From the Sporting Regs 2014, 22.1:

Quote:
s. No competitor may sell or make available a car of the current year to any third party without the full knowledge of the FIA.


The wording in this one, however, seems quite weird. I think it's the FIA's intent that this shouldn't happen, but if I'm honest this part pretty much says that you can do it if you fully inform the FIA.


Stretching the Sporting Regs 2014, 22.1 definition, I can see 2 loopholes

1) As the 2014 chassis would no doubt have to be adapted for the Honda engine, it would actually be a 2015 chassis and therefore not 'current year'

2) What actually consitutes 'car of the current year' Does this include the engine too? If the answer to this is yes, then Honda could test with the current chassis.

As these are sporting regs and not technical regs, I can imagine that the rest of the teams wouldn't be too pleased though


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kev627 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group