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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:34 pm 
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A quite astonishing development after a pathetic prank.

Very sad really.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:08 pm 
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OK. Patient confidentiality is absolute but who's going to say no to someone you think is Ma Windsor? She should never have been put in that position. (Of having to refuse the Queen)
Any other case would probably have got nurse rap on knuckles, this case would probably have been dealt with more severely. If you are going to discipline someone (and they know they're in deep do-do) you probably need to provide some support for them. - suspect this is the missing element.
No doubt the tin foil hat brigade will be out in full force soon.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:22 pm 
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It's a sad state of affairs.

It's unfortunate this has gone from a silly prank to someone losing their life. I actually feel sorry for the two DJs as they must feel this is on their conscience, despite it being a pretty unforeseeable consequence..


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:51 pm 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20645838

Please read a story about it before commenting! It was the nurse who took the call, not the nurse who gave out the info who had (presumably) commuted suicide. Both nurses were apparantly given no disaplinary actions and were being supported by the hospital management (although not closely enough imo) I could be very wrong, but I would assume that the nurse suffered from some form of depression and any comments from her co workers and the like, even if meant in jest, were enough to push her over the edge. Where I see failures is the media in this country playing the recording over and over again and making out she was really stupid. Also her management, in the article they seemed to see it was effecting her, and were obviously unable to get her the required help before it was too late.

Basically, what I am saying is that although it us a deeply saddening story, 1 childish prank cannot be held responsible. If I am wrong and it should be, then may as well start being told everything we can or cannot do/say by other people who obviously know what is acceptable.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:22 pm 
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The failing here is by the hospital and by the radio station, however in both cases the DJs and nurses are being made the scape goats.

The prank call was not made live, it was pre-recorded and vetted by the radio station's management before being broadcast - so if anyone is to blame from the radiostation it is whoever made the decision to greenlight the broadcast - so either the head of the legal team or the head of the radio station.

With regards to the hospital - there is clearly a massive failure in the procedures. However, there is something odd about the call. When the pranksters called up they just said "Can I speak to my grand daughter Kate?" - now, hospitals have hundreds of patients, even if she was the only Kate in the hospital there is no way the staff member could have known that. I think that the radio station must have got hold of a direct line to the ward she was in rather than the main switchboard because if you called a hospital they would need more to go on than "speak to my grand daughter Kate" to know who to put them through to. The way the call was handled came across as if it they were expecting a call specifically about Kate on that line.

Either way, there had clearly been a lack of procedures put in place or a lack of training - the staff should have been drilled by the management in how to deal with the publicity and this did not happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:18 pm 
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mac_d wrote:
It's a sad state of affairs.

It's unfortunate this has gone from a silly prank to someone losing their life. I actually feel sorry for the two DJs as they must feel this is on their conscience, despite it being a pretty unforeseeable consequence..

They are not guilty of anything. It was probably "funny", but it's unreasonable to think that there never will be any consequences of their pranks. It's called risk, they accepted it.

Edit: syntax

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:06 am 
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My apologies for not reading story. Saw this on TV at work as scrolling headline referring to "Nurse involved" and jumped to wrong conclusion. Did not have time to go to website for full story.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:23 am 
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It does strike me as an extreme reaction to one (slightly stupid) mistake. I suspect its more about press and colleagues constantly pestering her about it rather than the prank itself.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Assuming there wasn't some sort of pre-set up nature to this, The obvious thing to me is the fact the DJs acquired patient information by deception, which no matter how you spin it is illegal.

Naturally everyone's focusing on the suicide, and a lot of people - especially on tabloid sites, I've noticed - are calling for their heads in return for directly causing the nurse's suicide. I trust everyone here is intelligent enough that I don't have to waste my time debunking that idea. However, there's a potential breach of UK law here which needs addressing.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Unfortunate that it escalated to the point where someone lost their life.

Clearly, there must have been an enormous backlash behind the scenes at the hospital for the nurse to have to take this step. I'd imagine that should be looked into. The whole "hospital and royal family were completely supportive and understanding" narrative doesn't add up.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Obviously it's very sad that she's killed herself, but the outrage about the prank itself is outrageous, even prince Charles when asked, before the suicide, said he thought it was quite funny, and wasn't that bothered about it. They weren't trying to be malicious, even though yes, both to gain and to give such information is illegal here, they were just trying to have a laugh, and fully expected to simply be told to bugger off, which in itself would have been amusing.

If she was in hospital with any serious, life threatening condition, then yes, it would have been an incredibly distasteful thing to do. But she wasn't, everyone knew she was basically okay. It's far from the worst thing people have done for shits and giggles, and the tragic outcome certainly isn't their fault.

As regards the hospital, I know they say that they were fully supporting those involved, and not pursuing any sort of disciplinary proceedings, but I would not be at all surprised it that's a complete load of rubbish.

Clearly the poor lady was in a bad way, and needed some help. I feel for her family and friends.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:06 pm 
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toilet wrote:
Obviously it's very sad that she's killed herself, but the outrage about the prank itself is outrageous, even prince Charles when asked, before the suicide, said he thought it was quite funny, and wasn't that bothered about it. They weren't trying to be malicious, even though yes, both to gain and to give such information is illegal here, they were just trying to have a laugh, and fully expected to simply be told to bugger off, which in itself would have been amusing.

If she was in hospital with any serious, life threatening condition, then yes, it would have been an incredibly distasteful thing to do. But she wasn't, everyone knew she was basically okay. It's far from the worst thing people have done for shits and giggles, and the tragic outcome certainly isn't their fault.

As regards the hospital, I know they say that they were fully supporting those involved, and not pursuing any sort of disciplinary proceedings, but I would not be at all surprised it that's a complete load of rubbish.

Clearly the poor lady was in a bad way, and needed some help. I feel for her family and friends.

Exactly, I heard on the news today that in Australia the DJ's have had to go into hiding and the station is receiving some very harsh complaints, some evn bordering on threats of harm or life!!!!!! Back here in the UK, not 1 person who I've talked to about it or seen online mentioning it are blaming the DJ's at all.
phyz wrote:
Unfortunate that it escalated to the point where someone lost their life.

Clearly, there must have been an enormous backlash behind the scenes at the hospital for the nurse to have to take this step. I'd imagine that should be looked into. The whole "hospital and royal family were completely supportive and understanding" narrative doesn't add up.

This is why I'm a little angered by the hospital itself, we probably never will know what support they actually gave.

As for the giving out of confidential information, firstly the people involved weren't actually bothered and most importantly, as someone mentioned before, it is down to a lack of protocol that they actually got through. Really you'd think that they might actually have a minder/security on hand 24/7 in the ward to deal with these things in a public hospital as they obviously wouldn't have a receptionist on each ward at 5:30am.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:27 am 
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As far as pranks are concerned, they're only funny if a bit of common sense and respect are applied. With tv pranks I'm of the understanding that they ask the 'victim's' permission before broadcasting anything and if it's anything bordering on extreme (like what Beadle did with crushing people's cars etc) it usually involved some research into the mentality of the victim first.

I've had both harmless and harmful pranks played on me and it always came down to whether or not the person applied a bit of common sense.

This one ran the very big risk of the nurses involved being humiliated publicly and in their private/work lives so the radio station deserves any backlash they get as far as I'm concerned. I can't see that they took any precautions to ensure no one would be harmed which should be the first perogative in any prank. The DJ's themselves will be haunted for the rest of their lives so any disciplinary action would be purely for show.

The suicide may be a disproportionately tragic result but it should shed some light on the importance of treating people respectfully as we never know what is going on in their lives.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Ok, someone mentioned the tin-foil hat brigade. I presume that means me. Does nobody think there may have been an element of pressure/retribution towards the nurse for allowing a security breeach involving the wife of the heir to the throne (i.e. the next queen of England)?

No possibility of dark forces?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:50 pm 
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flyboy10 wrote:
involving the wife of the heir to the throne (i.e. the next queen of England)?

Just a small point of pedantry, while she might well end up being the next queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, that should be, unless Charles dies before his mum, or chooses not to ascend to the throne, Camilla, formerly Parker-Bowls.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:32 pm 
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Charles can become King without Camilla becoming queen I believe. She can take a different title.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Charles can become King without Camilla becoming queen I believe. She can take a different title.


Technically there is only ever one monarch. If it's a King, then his wife is the Queen Consort. If it's a Queen, then her husband is the Prince Consort. Of course, this will be shortened to King "whoever" and Queen "whoever" or Queen "whoever" and Prince "whoever". So Camilla's full title will be the Queen Consort if/when Charles takes the throne, although calling her "Queen" is not incorrect. I doubt very much she would take another title; there's technically no need for her to.

On topic: I feel very sorry for everyone involved in this. While it's immature to say that the DJ's prank directly caused this, it does highlight that you need to consider the consequences of your actions. They must be pretty traumatised now, imagine having to deal with the knowledge that something you did may have indirectly caused someone to take their life. They must be feeling pretty rotten.

And the nurses family must feel horrible to. I think a lot of this is simply down to the media frenzy that exploded after this. As usual, the media feel that every detail of everything must be known to everyone, and so it wasn't long before the names of pranked nurses would have been revealed anyway. Imagine the media pressure of that. Horrid. The poor woman. I can't begin to imagine having my name dragged around through the news like that, imagine the humiliation.

Here's hoping a lesson is learned from this tragic outcome; that senior management should very carefully consider the potential consquences of actions of their employees. While I wouldn't say that the managament of the radio station could have expected the outcome of this, at the very least they should have anticipated the backlash against the prank. It was quite distasteful of them for a start, and I'm fairly sure illegal in some way or form [I thought there were laws against obtaining confidental information with a "listening" device. That fact that it was recorded surely means the radio station broke the law anyway?]

And also, technically the DJ's commited high treason. high treason is still punishable by death in commonwealth, [of which Australia is part of], but that will sensibly not be persued I imagine. Overall a very sad case

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Yes but I remember this being discussed when Charles and Camilla married. I believe that they have the power so to speak, to give Camilla a none Queen title should they deem this the correct thing to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:41 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Yes but I remember this being discussed when Charles and Camilla married. I believe that they have the power so to speak, to give Camilla a none Queen title should they deem this the correct thing to do.


I have no doubt they could, but hope they don't. Camilla get's a lot of stick when you consider Charles actually dumped her for Diana first off, yet she get's blamed for being a marrige wrecker. I know Diana is beloved in the hearts of the UK, so Camilla is always going to be the bad guy regardless. Another woman I don't evny at all.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Camilla will never have the title of queen of any sort, this was decided when she and Charles married (as Asphalt_world said) hence her title duchess of Cambridge not Princess of Wales.

On topic:

Muttley, said a few posts back, that most public pranks get vetted or permission from the victim before being broadcast. As this is the case then people should possibly have bad things to say to the station itself who consented the broadcast, but still not towards the DJ's.

The other thing which I don't know if most people have realised is that the nurse were never named until one of them sadly died. As such, it could not be pressure from the public that had any impact on her. It could have been perceived pressure she may have felt, but mainly I see it as the people who will have known it was her (i.e. her co-workers) who may have been having little digs, or possibly the number of times she heard it played on the news that may have gotten to her. Again, I don't know why or what happened, but I still cannot understand why the DJ's are being even partly blamed. If they didn't broadcast the prank then the media, the public around the world, the hospital staff etc would never have known about it and we may have a different outcome, the hospital and patients would have a nurse still and 2 children would still have their mother. If anyone should feel guilty about her death, it would be the station who ok'ed the broadcast, the world media for their coverage, the hospital staff and management for not supporting the nurses fully or efectively, anyone who may have had a dig at the nurses on social media sites etc. The blame cannot be put on any one person or orginisation and to do so is just stupid imo.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:04 pm 
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minchy wrote:
Camilla will never have the title of queen of any sort, this was decided when she and Charles married (as Asphalt_world said) hence her title duchess of Cambridge not Princess of Wales.

On topic:

Muttley, said a few posts back, that most public pranks get vetted or permission from the victim before being broadcast. As this is the case then people should possibly have bad things to say to the station itself who consented the broadcast, but still not towards the DJ's.

The other thing which I don't know if most people have realised is that the nurse were never named until one of them sadly died. As such, it could not be pressure from the public that had any impact on her. It could have been perceived pressure she may have felt, but mainly I see it as the people who will have known it was her (i.e. her co-workers) who may have been having little digs, or possibly the number of times she heard it played on the news that may have gotten to her. Again, I don't know why or what happened, but I still cannot understand why the DJ's are being even partly blamed. If they didn't broadcast the prank then the media, the public around the world, the hospital staff etc would never have known about it and we may have a different outcome, the hospital and patients would have a nurse still and 2 children would still have their mother. If anyone should feel guilty about her death, it would be the station who ok'ed the broadcast, the world media for their coverage, the hospital staff and management for not supporting the nurses fully or efectively, anyone who may have had a dig at the nurses on social media sites etc. The blame cannot be put on any one person or orginisation and to do so is just stupid imo.

I wouldn't try to argue whether the prank is cause of nurse death or not. But I don't understand the highlighted point at all. To my knowledge the DJs got the idea, made the phone call, wanted to broadcast it. The station just took lawyers to review it. It's absurd to say that the DJs were not behind the prank, the DJs certainly co-produced their show with other people from that radio station. The DJs are part of the station.

If there is any investigation the station can be found guilty of something, but also certain people can hold some responsibility, if their actions directly caused some harm. This is like hypothetically making a person who lets say pressed wrong button and blew some oil rig, along with the company that runs the oil rig.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:26 pm 
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I thought the prank itself was pretty funny, especially given how bad the impressions were... If someone's going to kill themself over something like that then, I believe, any number of other things could have triggered it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:47 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
minchy wrote:
Camilla will never have the title of queen of any sort, this was decided when she and Charles married (as Asphalt_world said) hence her title duchess of Cambridge not Princess of Wales.

On topic:

Muttley, said a few posts back, that most public pranks get vetted or permission from the victim before being broadcast. As this is the case then people should possibly have bad things to say to the station itself who consented the broadcast, but still not towards the DJ's.

The other thing which I don't know if most people have realised is that the nurse were never named until one of them sadly died. As such, it could not be pressure from the public that had any impact on her. It could have been perceived pressure she may have felt, but mainly I see it as the people who will have known it was her (i.e. her co-workers) who may have been having little digs, or possibly the number of times she heard it played on the news that may have gotten to her. Again, I don't know why or what happened, but I still cannot understand why the DJ's are being even partly blamed. If they didn't broadcast the prank then the media, the public around the world, the hospital staff etc would never have known about it and we may have a different outcome, the hospital and patients would have a nurse still and 2 children would still have their mother. If anyone should feel guilty about her death, it would be the station who ok'ed the broadcast, the world media for their coverage, the hospital staff and management for not supporting the nurses fully or efectively, anyone who may have had a dig at the nurses on social media sites etc. The blame cannot be put on any one person or orginisation and to do so is just stupid imo.

I wouldn't try to argue whether the prank is cause of nurse death or not. But I don't understand the highlighted point at all. To my knowledge the DJs got the idea, made the phone call, wanted to broadcast it. The station just took lawyers to review it. It's absurd to say that the DJs were not behind the prank, the DJs certainly co-produced their show with other people from that radio station. The DJs are part of the station.

If there is any investigation the station can be found guilty of something, but also certain people can hold some responsibility, if their actions directly caused some harm. This is like hypothetically making a person who lets say pressed wrong button and blew some oil rig, along with the company that runs the oil rig.

My point regarding the station is that had it not been played on air, no one other than the people involved in the prank (such as the callers, the nurses and the royal family who were told about it) then I honestly can't see the pressure being as great as it was. But as it wasn't played live on air and the station does have vetting protocol, it is up to the people who said it was ok to air who released it to such a wide audience. I did see an interview on the newswith the station boss, who did say that they couldn't have foreseen the eventual and tragic [if it is linked] outcome. But at no point have I heard if anyone asked permission from the nurses involved for it to be aired, I would assume that by not naming them they get through any legal loopholes for not asking permission, if they didn't. I'm also guessing that if there is an investigation (I honestly can't see a legal investigation coming out of this as it would be British law being enforced abroad or vice versa) that the individual person who ok'ed the prank to be aired was following the stations protocol/procedures and therefore it is the stations protocol/procedures that were defective and the station as a company would be responsible, but no actual individual. It may be the case that we see someone resigning their position over it (whilst getting a large redundancy payout) as we see in the UK on a regular basis, but I can;t see any individual having legal action taken against them.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:07 pm 
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minchy wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
minchy wrote:
Camilla will never have the title of queen of any sort, this was decided when she and Charles married (as Asphalt_world said) hence her title duchess of Cambridge not Princess of Wales.

On topic:

Muttley, said a few posts back, that most public pranks get vetted or permission from the victim before being broadcast. As this is the case then people should possibly have bad things to say to the station itself who consented the broadcast, but still not towards the DJ's.

The other thing which I don't know if most people have realised is that the nurse were never named until one of them sadly died. As such, it could not be pressure from the public that had any impact on her. It could have been perceived pressure she may have felt, but mainly I see it as the people who will have known it was her (i.e. her co-workers) who may have been having little digs, or possibly the number of times she heard it played on the news that may have gotten to her. Again, I don't know why or what happened, but I still cannot understand why the DJ's are being even partly blamed. If they didn't broadcast the prank then the media, the public around the world, the hospital staff etc would never have known about it and we may have a different outcome, the hospital and patients would have a nurse still and 2 children would still have their mother. If anyone should feel guilty about her death, it would be the station who ok'ed the broadcast, the world media for their coverage, the hospital staff and management for not supporting the nurses fully or efectively, anyone who may have had a dig at the nurses on social media sites etc. The blame cannot be put on any one person or orginisation and to do so is just stupid imo.

I wouldn't try to argue whether the prank is cause of nurse death or not. But I don't understand the highlighted point at all. To my knowledge the DJs got the idea, made the phone call, wanted to broadcast it. The station just took lawyers to review it. It's absurd to say that the DJs were not behind the prank, the DJs certainly co-produced their show with other people from that radio station. The DJs are part of the station.

If there is any investigation the station can be found guilty of something, but also certain people can hold some responsibility, if their actions directly caused some harm. This is like hypothetically making a person who lets say pressed wrong button and blew some oil rig, along with the company that runs the oil rig.

My point regarding the station is that had it not been played on air, no one other than the people involved in the prank (such as the callers, the nurses and the royal family who were told about it) then I honestly can't see the pressure being as great as it was. But as it wasn't played live on air and the station does have vetting protocol, it is up to the people who said it was ok to air who released it to such a wide audience. I did see an interview on the newswith the station boss, who did say that they couldn't have foreseen the eventual and tragic [if it is linked] outcome. But at no point have I heard if anyone asked permission from the nurses involved for it to be aired, I would assume that by not naming them they get through any legal loopholes for not asking permission, if they didn't. I'm also guessing that if there is an investigation (I honestly can't see a legal investigation coming out of this as it would be British law being enforced abroad or vice versa) that the individual person who ok'ed the prank to be aired was following the stations protocol/procedures and therefore it is the stations protocol/procedures that were defective and the station as a company would be responsible, but no actual individual. It may be the case that we see someone resigning their position over it (whilst getting a large redundancy payout) as we see in the UK on a regular basis, but I can;t see any individual having legal action taken against them.

I'm not sure how can any protocols matter when someone commit a crime? Why should it matter whether someone was employed or not? So why you are at work you are no liable? Even policeman are liable for their faults at work regardless of internal protocol. All that matters is actual law. The real question is whether there was any wrong doing. I don't see any reason against individuals taking responsibility along with company if they did anything wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:54 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Yes but I remember this being discussed when Charles and Camilla married. I believe that they have the power so to speak, to give Camilla a none Queen title should they deem this the correct thing to do.

Saz wrote:
I have no doubt they could, but hope they don't. Camilla get's a lot of stick when you consider Charles actually dumped her for Diana first off, yet she get's blamed for being a marriage wrecker. I know Diana is beloved in the hearts of the UK, so Camilla is always going to be the bad guy regardless. Another woman I don't envy at all.

minchy wrote:
Camilla will never have the title of queen of any sort, this was decided when she and Charles married (as Asphalt_world said) hence her title duchess of Cambridge not Princess of Wales.


To continue my pedantry... The monarch has the right to give anyone any title they wish, therefore if Charles does become King, he can give Camilla the title "Queen" if he wants to, or even "Supreme Overlord", just as the current Queen could give Phil the Greek the title of "King" if she wanted to, but she doesn't, so he's only a Prince.

Personally I think he should give her the title "Queen", hence me using the would "should", and stipulating the circumstances in which I think that shouldn't happen, i.e. him dying before Liz, or choosing not to take the throne when mommy dearest pops her clogs.

Anyway, it's all a moot point really, it's not like it'd make the slightest bit of difference to anyone normal people's lives.

Back OT... To those suggesting that the DJ's, or someone, almost anyone, should be prosecuted "because their actions lead to someone taking their own life", I'm just curious, do you think that when somebody goes off on one, doing copycat killings of a film, blaming the film for their actions, that those who made the film should be held accountable, that they should be prosecuted? After all, if they'd not made the film then said person would not have committed those crimes, their actions lead to someone murdering innocent people, to use your own logic.

They could not have reasonably assumed that anyone involved would do such a thing. If your view is that they should have been able to foresee such an outcome, and therefore that the prank call should never have been allowed to be placed, then you probably think that the vast majority of comedy shouldn't be allowed. I dread to think what you think of genuinely, personally, critical peaces of journalism. Anyway, each to their own.

Edit: Obviously and law breaking should be prosecuted, and the trying to gain personal data by deception is an offence here (but as mentioned by someone else, I don't know how such a prosecution would stand up across international boundaries), and so is the giving out personal data without permission from the person in question, even if it really was the Queen on the phone (so if they were going to prosecute the Aussies for that, they'd have to prosecute the nurses and hospital too). Someone mentioned treason, which technically impersonating the Queen is, would stand up as Australia is part of the Commonwealth, but if they were to be prosecuted for that, you'd then also have to prosecute that famous Queen lookalike/stand-in (along with loads of other people), she's properly pretended to be the queen on many occasions for various comedy programs, getting people to do stuff for her, fully believing that she really is the Queen.

Basically there ain't anything gonna come of this, and neither there should, not if we want to live in a decent, relatively free society. Not that I know anything, obviously.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Listening to the public and media reaction it strikes me there is a glaring omission that has passed by without much comment:

That is, when the original (prank) story broke it was all over the media with excepts of the call being played over and over, it was the subject of high-profile phone in shows and other commentary on the bbc where the vast majority of contributors were saying or implying things like ‘how could anyone be so stupid or naive to fall for that’, and I include bbc presenters (and a hospital spokesperson) in that.

Obviously no one knows what the poor nurse was going through, but I would suggest the ensuing level of media exposure and public reaction might have possibly contributed more than the actual incident itself.

There is a lot of outrage and indignation from the media towards the radio station and the dj’s, ironically much the same as was directed towards the hospital and nursing staff last week.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Dom Jolly made that exact point on radio 4 this morning, and a good point it is too.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:55 pm 
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As far as I'm concerned, the blame lies with Mrs Saldahna (I may have spelt that wrong, apologies) herself for not being able to do her job properly and then taking such a ridiculous action. If she'd of done her job and not put "the Queen" through (with shocking accents, they didn't even pretend to be serious), then she wouldn't have been in the mess. The DJs did nothing wrong... if they've done something wrong by doing a prank call, then Fone Jacker, Dom Jolly, Bo Selecta, and every other mystery phone calling prank or surprise from radio or TV should be investigated.

However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:04 pm 
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As much as I consider the 2 'DJ's' a couple of arses, judged on their interviews o tv ( I thought DJ played records? Same when that ares in our country did it, stick to your job) are two incidents with only flimsy connections being linked too closely?

Was this incident alone enough to push someone over the edge? I doubt it in all honesty. I see the problem as the poor woman not getting help before getting to this state.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:46 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?


I've heard a few arguments along these lines and I just don't buy any of it.

Maybe the hospital weren't supportive, maybe they threatened her with disciplinary action or the sack. We wont know for sure but the WORST the hospital could do is sack her. This isn't a Nike sweatshop in Indonesia. She wasn't going to get beaten up by her foreman or anything like that.

You don't kill yourself because you've been disciplined or sacked at work. Not without some serious underlying emotional issues. People get sacked or made redundant all too often at the moment. You go home, drown your sorrows in 10 pints of lager down the pub and head for the job centre on Monday morning, not jump off a bridge.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?


I've heard a few arguments along these lines and I just don't buy any of it.

Maybe the hospital weren't supportive, maybe they threatened her with disciplinary action or the sack. We wont know for sure but the WORST the hospital could do is sack her. This isn't a Nike sweatshop in Indonesia. She wasn't going to get beaten up by her foreman or anything like that.

You don't kill yourself because you've been disciplined or sacked at work. Not without some serious underlying emotional issues. People get sacked or made redundant all too often at the moment. You go home, drown your sorrows in 10 pints of lager down the pub and head for the job centre on Monday morning, not jump off a bridge.


Agreed on every word

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:55 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?


I've heard a few arguments along these lines and I just don't buy any of it.

Maybe the hospital weren't supportive, maybe they threatened her with disciplinary action or the sack. We wont know for sure but the WORST the hospital could do is sack her. This isn't a Nike sweatshop in Indonesia. She wasn't going to get beaten up by her foreman or anything like that.

You don't kill yourself because you've been disciplined or sacked at work. Not without some serious underlying emotional issues. People get sacked or made redundant all too often at the moment. You go home, drown your sorrows in 10 pints of lager down the pub and head for the job centre on Monday morning, not jump off a bridge.


Agreed on every word


I mean no offence, but you clearly have no insight whatsoever into the mindset of someone that would ever genuinely consider killing themselves.

While I agree that someone would not likely go from being an apparently entirely rational, sane human being, to suddenly committing suicide, solely because they lost, or could potentially lose, their job, if you're of a certain disposition it can certainly be the thing to push you over the edge from only thinking about killing yourself, to actually doing it. Most people, obviously, would deal with it as you say, however, some people cannot do that.

I presume that she had an awful lot of troubles going on in her world all ready, whether anyone else, was aware of it or not, people with such troubles are often very good at hiding it from everyone, particularly those closest to them, and that this (whether that be the threat of disciplinary action, the way the media was portraying her, teasing from friends and colleagues or the prank in and of itself) now made it all more than she could deal with.

I know it's not rational, and most people are unable to understand people who are of such a mindset, but unfortunately this is all something I'm only too aware of.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Hence the bit about having serious underlying emotional issues.

A lot of people are keen to blame the DJs, the radio station, the hospital, her supervisor, Jimmy Saville etc. etc. for this but I don't honnestly think any of them are to blame. This woman was clearly in a very fragile mental state and without help would possibly have ended up killing herself eventually, even without this incident.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?


I've heard a few arguments along these lines and I just don't buy any of it.

Maybe the hospital weren't supportive, maybe they threatened her with disciplinary action or the sack. We wont know for sure but the WORST the hospital could do is sack her. This isn't a Nike sweatshop in Indonesia. She wasn't going to get beaten up by her foreman or anything like that.

You don't kill yourself because you've been disciplined or sacked at work. Not without some serious underlying emotional issues. People get sacked or made redundant all too often at the moment. You go home, drown your sorrows in 10 pints of lager down the pub and head for the job centre on Monday morning, not jump off a bridge.


I agree, I've faced disciplinary proceedures in work before now and although it certainly irked me, and I was very frustrated, it never even crossed my mind that "this is the end, no more." or whatever. I did as you say, drowned sorrows, had a blast of PS3, and got on with the job. Hell the person who held the disciplinary is still a good friend of mine. But we don't know if she'd never faced such disciplinary before, maybe feared the worst, thought she'd get sacked, her career tarnished, no future chances with the employment market so bleak... she could've taken things completely out of proportion by simply being told "we're going to have to investigate the conduct of your work." or something. She may have been very fragile already.

As far as I'm concerned though, she should've bucked up and got on with it instead of being selfish. Or just done her job properly in the first place. Do one of the other, like most people. I'm aware that's very heartless of me, but I feel for the DJs, the Duchess, the widowed family, the hospital reputation which have all taken a devestating blow, much more than I feel for someone who takes their own life over something so simple as a prank phone call.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Hence the bit about having serious underlying emotional issues.

A lot of people are keen to blame the DJs, the radio station, the hospital, her supervisor, Jimmy Saville etc. etc. for this but I don't honnestly think any of them are to blame. This woman was clearly in a very fragile mental state and without help would possibly have ended up killing herself eventually, even without this incident.

Nail. Head.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:16 pm 
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toilet wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
However, putting aside that side of the story, and being nicer towards the unfortunate woman, has anyone considered that the hospital administration were going to go to town on her about it? I know they've said they were supportive and she wasn't going to be in any trouble, but has anyone thought that they're only saying this after the suicide? I wonder if they'd told her she and the other nurse would face disciplinary proceedures, and maybe that got to her?


I've heard a few arguments along these lines and I just don't buy any of it.

Maybe the hospital weren't supportive, maybe they threatened her with disciplinary action or the sack. We wont know for sure but the WORST the hospital could do is sack her. This isn't a Nike sweatshop in Indonesia. She wasn't going to get beaten up by her foreman or anything like that.

You don't kill yourself because you've been disciplined or sacked at work. Not without some serious underlying emotional issues. People get sacked or made redundant all too often at the moment. You go home, drown your sorrows in 10 pints of lager down the pub and head for the job centre on Monday morning, not jump off a bridge.


Agreed on every word


I mean no offence, but you clearly have no insight whatsoever into the mindset of someone that would ever genuinely consider killing themselves.

While I agree that someone would not likely go from being an apparently entirely rational, sane human being, to suddenly committing suicide, solely because they lost, or could potentially lose, their job, if you're of a certain disposition it can certainly be the thing to push you over the edge from only thinking about killing yourself, to actually doing it. Most people, obviously, would deal with it as you say, however, some people cannot do that.

I presume that she had an awful lot of troubles going on in her world all ready, whether anyone else, was aware of it or not, people with such troubles are often very good at hiding it from everyone, particularly those closest to them, and that this (whether that be the threat of disciplinary action, the way the media was portraying her, teasing from friends and colleagues or the prank in and of itself) now made it all more than she could deal with.

I know it's not rational, and most people are unable to understand people who are of such a mindset, but unfortunately this is all something I'm only too aware of.


I'm sorry, millions of people have it worse every day. Much worse. You know what they do? They seek help, talk to family and friends, talk to doctors or even to the barman... And they keep going on.

The truth is that we don't know what went through her mind. Until we do (and I am not aware of her leaving any suicide notes or anything) then I'll believe that she over-reacted. From what I gather, she was a normal person, very likeable that didn't have any mental issues. She also had two kids for f*ck sake, she didn't think of them, did she? I have no idea what kind of crap went through her head, but I can only feel about her family.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Slightly off topic, this is how a prank call should be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St56_zW263c

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Hence the bit about having serious underlying emotional issues.

A lot of people are keen to blame the DJs, the radio station, the hospital, her supervisor, Jimmy Saville etc. etc. for this but I don't honnestly think any of them are to blame. This woman was clearly in a very fragile mental state and without help would possibly have ended up killing herself eventually, even without this incident.

Sorry I'm an idiot, miss-read that sentence!

Personally a totally agree with you, it was Saville's fault!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:13 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
toilet wrote:
things


I'm sorry, millions of people have it worse every day. Much worse. You know what they do? They seek help, talk to family and friends, talk to doctors or even to the barman... And they keep going on.

The truth is that we don't know what went through her mind. Until we do (and I am not aware of her leaving any suicide notes or anything) then I'll believe that she over-reacted. From what I gather, she was a normal person, very likeable that didn't have any mental issues. She also had two kids for f*ck sake, she didn't think of them, did she? I have no idea what kind of crap went through her head, but I can only feel about her family.


Of course millions, if not billions, of people have it "worse", objectively speaking. I think you somewhat miss the concept of being mentally ill, and generally speaking, people who kill themselves are, or rather, were, mentally ill (generally the only exceptions to that are terminally ill or severely disabled people). Like I said, people who have such issues as I'm guessing she must have had, often appear entirely "normal", often especially to those closest to them. As illogical as it sounds, her children probably were all she was thinking of as she did it.

But don't get me wrong (or rather judge from my rather explicit posts), I'm not suggesting blame on anyone else' part. She made a mistake, and then she made a far worse one. I just don't judge her for having made that second mistake, I know the sort of turmoil she appears to have been going through (probably in life in general, not just because of this specific incident), I know how you can end up thinking, I know what you can end up doing. Thankfully most people couldn't understand that, you wouldn't want to be able to truly understand that, but as such people shouldn't judge those that do take their own lives.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Slightly off topic, this is how a prank call should be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St56_zW263c



or like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohMhnhGlq84


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