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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Although now 4 years old, Charlie Brooker's excellent Newswipe series covered how the press coverage school shootings get is one of the prime motivators in causing mentally ill people to go on mass shootings - using the coverage of the school shooting in Germany in 2009 as an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B63ahmTAesM#t=24m35s

Note, have linked straight to the section on the shooting, if you are viewing on a device that doesn't jump straight to the time stamp, it is 24 minutes and 35 seconds in to the video.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:18 pm 
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At least the White house turned down a death star

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20997144

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:12 am 
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very nice touch :( the shooting training app for age 4+

http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/01/14/t ... or-ages-4/

so let me make a short conclusion of some 'pro-gun' guys:
1. give same guns (assault rifles) to teachers
2. buy bullet proof jackets and rucksacks for kids
3. train kids on iphone how to shoot, so if the teacher is useless kids can shoot the intruder themselves.

very nice.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12 am 
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Denorth wrote:
very nice touch :( the shooting training app for age 4+

http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/01/14/t ... or-ages-4/

so let me make a short conclusion of some 'pro-gun' guys:
1. give same guns (assault rifles) to teachers
2. buy bullet proof jackets and rucksacks for kids
3. train kids on iphone how to shoot, so if the teacher is useless kids can shoot the intruder themselves.

very nice.

This app is actually part of the NRA's narrative that videogames are to blame. By creating the app they are lending support to the idea that shooting in a computer game is some how similar to shooting in real life. Despite the fact that you are either using a game pad or a touch screen/accelerometer to aim in a computer game with no physical feedback or realism in the simulation.

If people cause an outcry over the game they can then turn it back and say "so you do admit computer games are like real life"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Denorth wrote:
very nice touch :( the shooting training app for age 4+

http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/01/14/t ... or-ages-4/

so let me make a short conclusion of some 'pro-gun' guys:
1. give same guns (assault rifles) to teachers
2. buy bullet proof jackets and rucksacks for kids
3. train kids on iphone how to shoot, so if the teacher is useless kids can shoot the intruder themselves.

very nice.

This app is actually part of the NRA's narrative that videogames are to blame. By creating the app they are lending support to the idea that shooting in a computer game is some how similar to shooting in real life. Despite the fact that you are either using a game pad or a touch screen/accelerometer to aim in a computer game with no physical feedback or realism in the simulation.

If people cause an outcry over the game they can then turn it back and say "so you do admit computer games are like real life"

i think what you're forgetting Alien, is the physiological effort needed to shoot another living thing compared to a target or pretend person in video games.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:37 pm 
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minchy wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Denorth wrote:
very nice touch :( the shooting training app for age 4+

http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/01/14/t ... or-ages-4/

so let me make a short conclusion of some 'pro-gun' guys:
1. give same guns (assault rifles) to teachers
2. buy bullet proof jackets and rucksacks for kids
3. train kids on iphone how to shoot, so if the teacher is useless kids can shoot the intruder themselves.

very nice.

This app is actually part of the NRA's narrative that videogames are to blame. By creating the app they are lending support to the idea that shooting in a computer game is some how similar to shooting in real life. Despite the fact that you are either using a game pad or a touch screen/accelerometer to aim in a computer game with no physical feedback or realism in the simulation.

If people cause an outcry over the game they can then turn it back and say "so you do admit computer games are like real life"

i think what you're forgetting Alien, is the physiological effort needed to shoot another living thing compared to a target or pretend person in video games.

Oh, of course, I agree completely. However, their argument is that videogames desensitize people to the idea of killing (even though killing pretend people consequence-free in cartoonish representations of a totally fake reality is totally different to the real world) - so I was just presenting a case that is indisputable: firing weapons in a video game is nothing like firing a weapon in the real world. I fired hand guns when I was in America (video here, I'm in the striped top) and not only was it a completely different physical experience, but a completely different one emotionally. Even after I had fired the last bullet in the gun I was still very apprehensive about it. I remember the beretta jammed a couple of times and I had to put it down with bullets still in it for my friend to sort out and it terrified me.

I've played shooting games since I was a kid and I have never been scared of guns in the video game world. My emotions towards getting harmed or killed in a shooting game aren't fear, they're frustration. If video games had desensitised me to the idea of violence and guns then I would have had a totally different reaction to them when I used them for the first (And only) time in the real world.

There are similar examples to this in popular culture. Penn and Teller took at 10 year old kid who played a lot of Call of Duty to an outdoor shooting range and got him to fire an assault rifle. After shooting it once they asked him if he wanted another go and he said he didn't and then broke down in tears in his mother's arms.

A video game blogger/reviewer called Jim Sterling did a video on his show "The Jimquisition" on the Escapist where he showed real footage where a US politican committed suicide at a press conference by shooting himself in the head. He then pointed out that in order to get the Escapist to allow him to show the footage took a lot of persuasion on his part, when he had never needed to persuade them to show any video game violence, bad language etc etc... and when he had shown the footage before to gamers it had provoked a massive outcry - that being his point. Gamers hated real violence, they found it uncomfortable. If truly desensitised as claimed by people like the NRA, Fox News and the Daily Mail then that would not be their reaction.

Of course, both these examples are slightly sensationalised in that they are for entertainment shows. However, the FBI, whose job it is to investigate and respond to mass shootings have stated they have found no link between playing videogames and violence. Yes, these people who commit this acts often have played videogames - but a LOT of people now play computer games, and computer game addiction is actually a symptom of social isolation rather than a cause and it is people in social isolation, who are mentally ill and feel the world is not noticing them who go out and do things like this.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
minchy wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Denorth wrote:
very nice touch :( the shooting training app for age 4+

http://thenextweb.com/apps/2013/01/14/t ... or-ages-4/

so let me make a short conclusion of some 'pro-gun' guys:
1. give same guns (assault rifles) to teachers
2. buy bullet proof jackets and rucksacks for kids
3. train kids on iphone how to shoot, so if the teacher is useless kids can shoot the intruder themselves.

very nice.

This app is actually part of the NRA's narrative that videogames are to blame. By creating the app they are lending support to the idea that shooting in a computer game is some how similar to shooting in real life. Despite the fact that you are either using a game pad or a touch screen/accelerometer to aim in a computer game with no physical feedback or realism in the simulation.

If people cause an outcry over the game they can then turn it back and say "so you do admit computer games are like real life"

i think what you're forgetting Alien, is the physiological effort needed to shoot another living thing compared to a target or pretend person in video games.

Oh, of course, I agree completely. However, their argument is that videogames desensitize people to the idea of killing (even though killing pretend people consequence-free in cartoonish representations of a totally fake reality is totally different to the real world) - so I was just presenting a case that is indisputable: firing weapons in a video game is nothing like firing a weapon in the real world. I fired hand guns when I was in America (video here, I'm in the striped top) and not only was it a completely different physical experience, but a completely different one emotionally. Even after I had fired the last bullet in the gun I was still very apprehensive about it. I remember the beretta jammed a couple of times and I had to put it down with bullets still in it for my friend to sort out and it terrified me.

I've played shooting games since I was a kid and I have never been scared of guns in the video game world. My emotions towards getting harmed or killed in a shooting game aren't fear, they're frustration. If video games had desensitised me to the idea of violence and guns then I would have had a totally different reaction to them when I used them for the first (And only) time in the real world.

There are similar examples to this in popular culture. Penn and Teller took at 10 year old kid who played a lot of Call of Duty to an outdoor shooting range and got him to fire an assault rifle. After shooting it once they asked him if he wanted another go and he said he didn't and then broke down in tears in his mother's arms.

A video game blogger/reviewer called Jim Sterling did a video on his show "The Jimquisition" on the Escapist where he showed real footage where a US politican committed suicide at a press conference by shooting himself in the head. He then pointed out that in order to get the Escapist to allow him to show the footage took a lot of persuasion on his part, when he had never needed to persuade them to show any video game violence, bad language etc etc... and when he had shown the footage before to gamers it had provoked a massive outcry - that being his point. Gamers hated real violence, they found it uncomfortable. If truly desensitised as claimed by people like the NRA, Fox News and the Daily Mail then that would not be their reaction.

Of course, both these examples are slightly sensationalised in that they are for entertainment shows. However, the FBI, whose job it is to investigate and respond to mass shootings have stated they have found no link between playing videogames and violence. Yes, these people who commit this acts often have played videogames - but a LOT of people now play computer games, and computer game addiction is actually a symptom of social isolation rather than a cause and it is people in social isolation, who are mentally ill and feel the world is not noticing them who go out and do things like this.


Great episode of "Bullshit".

The whole series really, but this episode was great

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Anyone know anything about this radio interview thingy that says the whole sandy hook thing was faked?

Quote:
Excerpt from Muad'Dib's January 7th, 2013 Critical Mass Radio interview:

...They used a poster child for this to get everybody's sympathy and to get everybody's emotions up so that they could hopefully bring in a gun ban. They used a little poster child, a little blonde-haired blue-eyed six year old girl. She was the face, the poster child. She was supposedly killed along with the other 19 six year olds and seven year olds at Sandy Hook. Three days later Obama was there doing a photo op and she's sitting on his knee. She's supposed to be dead, used as a poster child, this little girl died - she's sitting on Obama's knee three days later. The same little girl.

And then they have her parents interviewed. It shows that they're all actors. It never really happened, because the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left. Then he's called to the center, to the focus of the camera to be interviewed and to give his speech about Sandy Hook and about his daughter. And he goes from on the side from laughing and joking with everybody, he comes up to the center and ... he takes the joking, smiling face off and you can see him physically trying to force his face to look sad and then he starts talking about how his daughter's been killed. They're actors. There were no bodies.

It was a made for TV drama to try to ram through the gun control laws, because they want to kill the American people and they can't kill armed people. That's why Hitler disarmed the Germans, it's why Stalin disarmed the Russians, it's why chairman Mao disarmed the Chinese and they killed between them something like 120 million of their own people. And that's what they want to do in America and they can't do it because the people have the Second Amendment and they have guns. So they have to do all of this, and they'll keep doing it. There will be more incidents like this, which are made for television, until they manage to persuade the American people to give up their guns. And then they'll start killing the Americans. Because the Americans are the only people stopping them from doing what they want to do already. They know they can't put their next phase, which is reducing the world's population, they can't put that phase into operation whilst the Americans have got millions of guns.


Is it a bona Fide radio thing or just internet bull?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Anyone know anything about this radio interview thingy that says the whole sandy hook thing was faked?

Quote:
Excerpt from Muad'Dib's January 7th, 2013 Critical Mass Radio interview:

...They used a poster child for this to get everybody's sympathy and to get everybody's emotions up so that they could hopefully bring in a gun ban. They used a little poster child, a little blonde-haired blue-eyed six year old girl. She was the face, the poster child. She was supposedly killed along with the other 19 six year olds and seven year olds at Sandy Hook. Three days later Obama was there doing a photo op and she's sitting on his knee. She's supposed to be dead, used as a poster child, this little girl died - she's sitting on Obama's knee three days later. The same little girl.

And then they have her parents interviewed. It shows that they're all actors. It never really happened, because the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left. Then he's called to the center, to the focus of the camera to be interviewed and to give his speech about Sandy Hook and about his daughter. And he goes from on the side from laughing and joking with everybody, he comes up to the center and ... he takes the joking, smiling face off and you can see him physically trying to force his face to look sad and then he starts talking about how his daughter's been killed. They're actors. There were no bodies.

It was a made for TV drama to try to ram through the gun control laws, because they want to kill the American people and they can't kill armed people. That's why Hitler disarmed the Germans, it's why Stalin disarmed the Russians, it's why chairman Mao disarmed the Chinese and they killed between them something like 120 million of their own people. And that's what they want to do in America and they can't do it because the people have the Second Amendment and they have guns. So they have to do all of this, and they'll keep doing it. There will be more incidents like this, which are made for television, until they manage to persuade the American people to give up their guns. And then they'll start killing the Americans. Because the Americans are the only people stopping them from doing what they want to do already. They know they can't put their next phase, which is reducing the world's population, they can't put that phase into operation whilst the Americans have got millions of guns.


Is it a bona Fide radio thing or just internet bull?

Yeah! While Americans still have guns the Government with its B2 Bombers, F-22s, F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, F-35s, M1A2 Abrahms tanks, Apache Helicopters and Aircraft carriers stand no chance at killing the American people!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Anyone know anything about this radio interview thingy that says the whole sandy hook thing was faked?

Quote:
Excerpt from Muad'Dib's January 7th, 2013 Critical Mass Radio interview:

...They used a poster child for this to get everybody's sympathy and to get everybody's emotions up so that they could hopefully bring in a gun ban. They used a little poster child, a little blonde-haired blue-eyed six year old girl. She was the face, the poster child. She was supposedly killed along with the other 19 six year olds and seven year olds at Sandy Hook. Three days later Obama was there doing a photo op and she's sitting on his knee. She's supposed to be dead, used as a poster child, this little girl died - she's sitting on Obama's knee three days later. The same little girl.

And then they have her parents interviewed. It shows that they're all actors. It never really happened, because the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left. Then he's called to the center, to the focus of the camera to be interviewed and to give his speech about Sandy Hook and about his daughter. And he goes from on the side from laughing and joking with everybody, he comes up to the center and ... he takes the joking, smiling face off and you can see him physically trying to force his face to look sad and then he starts talking about how his daughter's been killed. They're actors. There were no bodies.

It was a made for TV drama to try to ram through the gun control laws, because they want to kill the American people and they can't kill armed people. That's why Hitler disarmed the Germans, it's why Stalin disarmed the Russians, it's why chairman Mao disarmed the Chinese and they killed between them something like 120 million of their own people. And that's what they want to do in America and they can't do it because the people have the Second Amendment and they have guns. So they have to do all of this, and they'll keep doing it. There will be more incidents like this, which are made for television, until they manage to persuade the American people to give up their guns. And then they'll start killing the Americans. Because the Americans are the only people stopping them from doing what they want to do already. They know they can't put their next phase, which is reducing the world's population, they can't put that phase into operation whilst the Americans have got millions of guns.


Is it a bona Fide radio thing or just internet bull?

Yeah! While Americans still have guns the Government with its B2 Bombers, F-22s, F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, F-35s, M1A2 Abrahms tanks, Apache Helicopters and Aircraft carriers stand no chance at killing the American people!

So if I'm reading that readio except correctly... the speaker/writer is suggesting that America wants to start killing off Americans by convincing Americans to give up their guns by killing Americans in American schools and blaming Americans with guns? As ATH put, are the American people that good that they need to be disarmed by the American government tries to kill them?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:18 pm 
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From what I've read, a major reason for some Americans not wanting to give up guns is because they are scared that the government will become tyrannical. I know we have a few American posters on here so my question to them is this: why does fear SEEM (note that I'm not saying it does) to form such a part of your culture? I read/watch a fair bit of American media and even the "sensible" stuff like CNN seems to love fear mongering whether it be about terrorism, obesity or some product causing cancer.

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Last edited by Pedrosa_4_Ever on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:53 pm 
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A side note from a non-American:

I've been playing quite a bit of Red Dead Redemption lately. It's set in the Wild West and is a fictional story with (hopefully) more violence than the Wild West had, and it was a violent place. The player can go in anywhere, kill nearly anyone at any given time, and probably get shot because of it, but that's what he can do. Since the issue is widespread and well known, nearly every NPC in the game carries a gun to defend themselves, because the fictional provinces are full of outlaws who only have one goal, whatever it may be, and they'll do anything to achieve it - and they're all around, can strike at any given time, and most importantly, are a serious perpetual threat.
Therefore, it's only plain logic to carry a gun so you can kill an outlaw who has chosen you as his "salary payer" that day...

The problem here is that from what I've seen of this debate, many people seem to think that's exactly how the world works in 2013.
I do not, in any way, mean that video games caused that, because I fully believe that they don't do that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:56 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
So if I'm reading that readio except correctly... the speaker/writer is suggesting that America wants to start killing off Americans by convincing Americans to give up their guns by killing Americans in American schools and blaming Americans with guns? As ATH put, are the American people that good that they need to be disarmed by the American government tries to kill them?



I think so, thats why I am wondering if it's real, fake or a parody.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:09 pm 
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The NRA really do make a habit of looking like as bunch of numpties.

In the advert the NRA claims President Barack Obama is an "elitist
hypocrite" because his children have personal protection while he
has been critical of an NRA plan to put armed guards in America's
schools.

Are they really comparing the two situations and expect use to take it seriously?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:17 pm 
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I agree, AW....

The NRA is looking like fools over this. Sadly, I just read that their ranks have swelled by another 250,000 new members recently, so that does nothing but encourage them.

There is obviously no comparing the risk that the President's children face to the risks that normal school children face. One is a target from the day their father is elected, the others not so much. It is extremes like that comparison that make those who distrust the NRA even more determined to see their power brought in line.

In a real case of hypocrisy, the NRA just came out with a video app for children showing them how to shoot targets, including caskets??? And one of the guns the kids can choose from just happens to be one used by the Newtown shooter... and for a fee you can upgrade your guns!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21025626

That is not only insensitive, but an in-your-face approach by the NRA... bound to make people feel better about them. There are a great many very good people who are NRA members, but the organization itself is getting scary.

I sure wish I had all the answers, but I fear the NRA will "buy" enough congressmen/women to stunt most of what Obama is trying to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Totally agree about the NRA advert about Obama's children. I find it more and more incredible how the NRA can be taken seriously each time I hear or see something from them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
So if I'm reading that readio except correctly... the speaker/writer is suggesting that America wants to start killing off Americans by convincing Americans to give up their guns by killing Americans in American schools and blaming Americans with guns? As ATH put, are the American people that good that they need to be disarmed by the American government tries to kill them?



I think so, thats why I am wondering if it's real, fake or a parody.

You'd hope if was parody, otherwise that person really has paranoia problems.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:24 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
So if I'm reading that readio except correctly... the speaker/writer is suggesting that America wants to start killing off Americans by convincing Americans to give up their guns by killing Americans in American schools and blaming Americans with guns? As ATH put, are the American people that good that they need to be disarmed by the American government tries to kill them?



I think so, thats why I am wondering if it's real, fake or a parody.

You'd hope if was parody, otherwise that person really has paranoia problems.



Yeah but it's Americans. You can never really be sure if serious or not :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
So if I'm reading that readio except correctly... the speaker/writer is suggesting that America wants to start killing off Americans by convincing Americans to give up their guns by killing Americans in American schools and blaming Americans with guns? As ATH put, are the American people that good that they need to be disarmed by the American government tries to kill them?



I think so, thats why I am wondering if it's real, fake or a parody.

You'd hope if was parody, otherwise that person really has paranoia problems.



Yeah but it's Americans. You can never really be sure if serious or not :lol: :lol:

That's generalising. ;)

But yes, can never be sure. If I had a Serious Cat meme to put up, it would go up right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:35 pm 
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and this is what I found difficult to understand.

Here is a proposal by Obama to control guns (main points):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21049942

Quote:
The president urged Congress:

1. to reintroduce an expired ban on new purchases of "military-style" assault weapons, such as those used in several recent mass shootings
2. limit ammunition magazines to 10 rounds and pass a ban on possession and sale of armour-piercing bullets
3. introduce background checks on all gun sales; currently private purchases and some transactions at gun shows are exempt
4. introduce harsher penalties for gun-traffickers, especially unlicensed dealers who buy arms for criminals
5. finally approve the appointment of the head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives


point 1 - can be argued by many if they want. I struggle to see why exactly civilians in a country that is in peace have a need to own military-style guns
point 2 - how limitation of 10-round per magazine equals 'ban on guns' puzzles me. Armour piercing bullets for civilians? Again, what is the purpose of having them by a law-abiding citizen in the peaceful country?
point 3 - isn't it the thing that would serve the same idea that 'pro' lobby pushes? 'no gun kill people, but guns in the hand of bad people'. It would maintain the right to have the gun, but limit bad guy in opportunity to buy the gun as easily as they can.
point 4 - the same. Good thing that goes together with the 'pro' lobby ideas.
point 5 - difficult to say.

After reading those ideas I just growing stronger that it is not 'little' gun owners that create main outcry about gun control. It is manufacturers and traders.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Yeah but it's Americans. You can never really be sure if serious or not :lol: :lol:

Whether or not that particular story is true or a parody there are Americans out there who believe that "once they take the guns they'll come for you" - look at the pro gun radio talk show host who went on Piers Morgan's show and afterwards posted a YouTube video from his hotel room claiming that after he left the studio undercover cops were tailing him and were trying to kill him and make it look like it was by criminals.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Denorth wrote:
and this is what I found difficult to understand.

Here is a proposal by Obama to control guns (main points):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21049942

Quote:
The president urged Congress:

1. to reintroduce an expired ban on new purchases of "military-style" assault weapons, such as those used in several recent mass shootings
2. limit ammunition magazines to 10 rounds and pass a ban on possession and sale of armour-piercing bullets
3. introduce background checks on all gun sales; currently private purchases and some transactions at gun shows are exempt
4. introduce harsher penalties for gun-traffickers, especially unlicensed dealers who buy arms for criminals
5. finally approve the appointment of the head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives


point 1 - can be argued by many if they want. I struggle to see why exactly civilians in a country that is in peace have a need to own military-style guns
point 2 - how limitation of 10-round per magazine equals 'ban on guns' puzzles me. Armour piercing bullets for civilians? Again, what is the purpose of having them by a law-abiding citizen in the peaceful country?
point 3 - isn't it the thing that would serve the same idea that 'pro' lobby pushes? 'no gun kill people, but guns in the hand of bad people'. It would maintain the right to have the gun, but limit bad guy in opportunity to buy the gun as easily as they can.
point 4 - the same. Good thing that goes together with the 'pro' lobby ideas.
point 5 - difficult to say.

After reading those ideas I just growing stronger that it is not 'little' gun owners that create main outcry about gun control. It is manufacturers and traders.

I'm in no doubt that the manufacturers and traders have a large influence on the gun laws in the US and on congress. They have just as much money and just as powerful lobbying capability as the pharmaceutical companies.

IMO Obama has taken the right tactic. Much as it would be preferable to take a really hard approach it would never be agreed to so it needs to be done in small steps. However it does have to be an ongoing process - once these laws are in place and adjusted to there needs to be more proposed to push things a bit further and so on and so forth.

However I think they could have gone further than they have. On point 1 there are more styles of weapons that could be banned without interfering with people's apparent right to arms on the premise of protecting themselves. Point 2 is a good one in that it will remove that sort of thing from the public domain and give authorities more scope to punish criminals who are likely to be the ones who own armour piercing bullets (although I agree with what you're saying about the fact that it's flabbergasting to think they were ever legal in the first place).

The laws surrounding background checks IMO need to be taken even further to incorporate more elements as part of background checks and harsher penalties for those selling the weapons without properly completing the background checks and adhering to them.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:12 pm 
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21313208

While the circumstances are still unclear, he was great soldier. I've read his book and he was far from being just pure sniper. My point that the sad event shows that guns doesn't make you safe. I was shocked that he got killed, with his skills and experience. Note that there was second person with gun who also couldn't defend himself.

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