planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:02 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
This is not about the obvious types of racism but about another form of abuse people are sometimes the victim of. I'm talking about people with red/ginger hair.

I'll point out straight away that I myself have red hair and this is in part why I was asked to do some research on this as part of one of my jobs.

I'll cut straight to the point.

Do people think that calling someone a ginger (insert abusive word of choice) is less of a crime than calling someone a black (insert abusive word of choice).

I've done a bit of reading so far and read about one family who were abused so much for their hair colour that then ended up having to move house because the authorities would do nothing about it.

Indeed I have sat in a bar only two seats away from someone who was talking about his daughter starting to go on dates. He said it was fine as long as she didn't bring back a ginger.....

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 2973
If you call someone, for instance a ginger prick, you are throwing out the hair colour as a kind of secondary apart of the insult, in the same way one might call someone a black prick, if you didn't like black people. And I suppose in essence, they do boil down to the exact same thing - some physical attribute that is entirely beyond that persons control. Okay, it's easier to dye your hair than to change your skin tone, but on a base level they are very similar. And the choice of the word before your insult is important. Unless said in a jovial way, where you might compliment someone while calling them a prick (perhaps just a Glasgow thing), you tend to go for a world you think is bad about them. So fat prick, stupid prick etc.

It's hard to say. Part of it is a description that is accurate too. If someone asked me what person spilled a drink on me, I might say the ginger one or the black one because those would be the best descriptors (in the same respect if the bar was more black people and less white people, it wouldn't bother me for someone to say it was the white guy). Though, I guess the difference is saying that to someone else and saying it to the person who already knows those descriptors. And, as ever, context is everything.

I'm at a loss to fully describe my thoughts on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Thanks mac_d

I was also thinking along the lines of the recent cased in football. It has come to light that people haven't used the N word when shouting at a player on the pitch but using the 'Black T***' or whatever. This has been pulled up as possible racism simply by referring to his as a 'black something', rather than simply a 'something'.

I admit is a very hard area and indeed there is no real answer.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1191
At the heart of it it's quite similar - people being singled out because of a physical feature they cannot contorl.

The biggest differece between the two is that racism has a long history of extensive atrocities, whereas as far as I am aware the same does not apply to hair colour.

Any racist language therefore, for me, becomes pregnant with the aforementioned. Interesting debate though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
To use a physical attribute as part of a verbal attack should be considered as a kind of racism yes. Be it skin colour, weight, hair colour. But at the same time you don't want to go overboard with saying "that's racist... that's racist"

For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall, and it seems to be a common greeting from strangers to say "You're tall." Aside from the fact that I am already fully aware of this fact they've told me (Weird huh?) I find it odd that I can't respond by informing them of an attribute of theirs. A conversation can't go like this:

Person "Hi. Wow, you're tall."
Me "Thanks, you're fat."

Apparently it's more offensive for me to point out something that is a lot more controllable than my height. A person has the ability to control their weight (most people, I'm sure for some it is genetic) whilst I have no control over how tall I am aside from cutting my legs off, which I don't fancy doing. I've been called a "Lanky f**k" before now, which isn't something you can prosecute someone over, but to call someone a "Fat f**k" is prosecutable.

So I'm not sure if referring to hair colour as part of an insult can come down as racism... it depends if the red-headed/ginger community makes enough noise to make it racism. For the record, I too, am regularly called ginger, though I'm not sure I see it.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Great points. I too am fairly high at 6'2" and with a slim build people often comment on it is a 'Blimey your thin' kind of way.

I think the term racism is perhaps out of context when it comes to hair colour. Is there a better term for labelling people who make unpleasant comments to others over hair colour?

As for making a noise about it, I hate everything the Red and Proud group stand for. It's actually drawing attention to the fact that we should in some way be regarded as different. This is a sure fire way imo to cause arguments and possible abuse towards those with a different from normal hair colour.

Another point, if a child at school shouts at someone in class and calls them a ginger idiot, is this less of an issue to calling someone a fat idiot?

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
I think it should be along the same lines, as both would insult and potentially upset the person being called names. It's just bullying, and should be stopped :)

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
Sorry for the short quick reply there, apparently I'm supposed to be working! Haha

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1287
Well, firstly in terms of it being racism you'd have to first decide whether you are taking a race as one characteristic or a collection of every characteristic of a certain group of people. For instance, black people in Ghana are vastly different to those in Uganda, who are again much different to those in the Americas. All of those people could be racist towards other black people because their culture is so different.
Secondly, from the political POV, there is not a long and particularly bloody recentish history that involves mass imprisonment and subsequent of mostly Celtic people because their culture was deemed backwards and all they were good for was picking cotton and mining ore.

So after that rambling, I'll address both points:

1) ipso facto, the same crime occurs. However, since there are not political parties running for office (and gaining votes) on the back of sending people with red hair back to where they came from, and people are not being killed solely because of their hair colour, I'm not sure I'd equate them.

2) It seems to be skewed more in the favour of red haired women. Particularly if they are generally attractive regardless. Ed Sheeran is likely to get more abuse than Christina Hendricks, Emma Stone, or Mean Girls era Lindsay Lohan for example. Which then makes it more socially acceptable to do because it's not directed at all red haired people, just the ones society deems ugly. Which is probably worse as it's far more selective, similar to how the Middle East is full of either US allies or Al-Qaeda cells, and if you aren't Israeli or Saudi, and people should be allowed to insinuate that you might be carrying semtex in your gym bag.


Ed Sheeran:
Image

Lindsay Lohan pre the crackhead look:

Image

Christina Hendricks:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
This thread is talking to me. I'm 6' 4 and my wife is ginger (or very dark red, but let's not... split hairs). I was about 22 when my patience for being told I'm tall ran out. It doesn't bother me but I have no patience for obvious comments ("you've had a haircut!" yes... is this going anywhere?) At least I live in London. My father lives in rural SE Asia and the first time I visited him some of the villagers queued at his gate to look at me and would follow us when we went out - I'm not joking! That was different, they were very nice and I can understand the novelty if you've never seen it before, but even in smaller parts of the UK you must see people my height every day!

But abuse of ginger people has always seemed like an anomaly to me. Usually if a minority is singled out for a physical attribute, and then terms for that attribute are used pejoratively, it's quite simply considered unacceptable. Perhaps it's because it's quite a recent thing, older people have mentioned there was no stigma in their day and in most countries that remains the case. I read something recently about how it's only in the last few years that there has been any negativity about it in America, with South Park being blamed for blowing it up, somewhat absurdly. It's weird though. Bizarre as it might seem, my wife's had more than one offer from people wanting to buy her hair (to make a wig), yet in a downmarket boozer in the suburbs she might get grief for it.

EDIT
Racism isn't the right word, redheads aren't a different race, but I think we know what the point is.

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1287
Also regarding the above post, I should qualify that my mum's family (and her) are ginger, and my dad's family is black.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Dominion of Canada
jammin78 wrote:
To use a physical attribute as part of a verbal attack should be considered as a kind of racism yes. Be it skin colour, weight, hair colour. But at the same time you don't want to go overboard with saying "that's racist... that's racist"

For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall, and it seems to be a common greeting from strangers to say "You're tall." Aside from the fact that I am already fully aware of this fact they've told me (Weird huh?) I find it odd that I can't respond by informing them of an attribute of theirs. A conversation can't go like this:

Person "Hi. Wow, you're tall."
Me "Thanks, you're fat."

Apparently it's more offensive for me to point out something that is a lot more controllable than my height. A person has the ability to control their weight (most people, I'm sure for some it is genetic) whilst I have no control over how tall I am aside from cutting my legs off, which I don't fancy doing. I've been called a "Lanky f**k" before now, which isn't something you can prosecute someone over, but to call someone a "Fat f**k" is prosecutable.

So I'm not sure if referring to hair colour as part of an insult can come down as racism... it depends if the red-headed/ginger community makes enough noise to make it racism. For the record, I too, am regularly called ginger, though I'm not sure I see it.

I like the way you think, mate. I'm 5'11" myself, which isn't that tall, but I only weight 134 pounds so I look tall and skinny. When someone points it out to me, I usually reply with something like "Congratulations Captain Obvious, you are the 1,000,000th person that tells me that! Would you like to claim your prize now?" They usually feel bad enough, but when they don't, I ask them "What cheek do you prefer?". Some higher ranked friend threatened me with disciplinary actions once because I replied that to him. I told him I could file a complain against him for picking on my physical attributes, and I that I can run 13 km in 56 minutes while he can't run 4 km without collapsing on the sidewalk. He NEVER talked to me again hehehe. :)

And for the OP, just ignore them; they're obviously more stupid than you and they clearly don't deserve the attention. Don't worry, be happy.

_________________
Sebastian Vettel - Most successful driver on the 2013 grid!

Supporter of Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber, Sergio Perez, Jenson Button, Red Bull, Sauber, Williams and Caterham.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
huggybear wrote:
Christina Hendricks:
Image

You touch on the gender difference there and that's interesting. It certainly seems there's a much bigger stigma for males than females. There seem to have been an unusually large proportion of female redhead sex symbols over the years, from Rita Hayworth to Nicole Kidman. But an unusually small number of males. I've also noticed how many female cartoon characters who are meant to be sexy have red hair (think about it, there are loads), yet there are few males.

I probably didn't need to quote that pic of Christina Hendricks in order to point out she's not a natural redhead (she's actually blonde), but thought I'd do it anyway.

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
huggybear wrote:
Also regarding the above post, I should qualify that my mum's family (and her) are ginger, and my dad's family is black.

Has that produced any unusual combinations? A friend of mine has ginger hair and his wife is Chinese. At this age their daughter's facial features are looking much more like her mother's, but she has her dad's hair!! It's extremely striking, an absolutely beautiful combination.

(I guess it means mum isn't 100% Chinese and is carrying the ginger gene...?)

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1287
Balibari wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Also regarding the above post, I should qualify that my mum's family (and her) are ginger, and my dad's family is black.

Has that produced any unusual combinations? A friend of mine has ginger hair and his wife is Chinese. At this age their daughter's facial features are looking much more like her mother's, but she has her dad's hair!! It's extremely striking, an absolutely beautiful combination.

(I guess it means mum isn't 100% Chinese and is carrying the ginger gene...?)


Not really except me and my siblings all have freckles around the nose. Like this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgucr ... o1_500.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1287
Balibari wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Also regarding the above post, I should qualify that my mum's family (and her) are ginger, and my dad's family is black.

Has that produced any unusual combinations? A friend of mine has ginger hair and his wife is Chinese. At this age their daughter's facial features are looking much more like her mother's, but she has her dad's hair!! It's extremely striking, an absolutely beautiful combination.

(I guess it means mum isn't 100% Chinese and is carrying the ginger gene...?)


Not really except me and my siblings all have freckles around the nose. Like this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgucr ... o1_500.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
jammin78 wrote:
For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall...


jammin78, I knew it from your avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4v-qiFvBg

It is you!!!

(Sorry Asphalt I couldn't resist)


I personally think it is the intent of saying something, not really what words they are using. If someone called me a blond lovely individual, I wouldn't be offended by the blond part, as there is no proof that blonds are bastards... Apart from that time I threw that puppy in the motorway (joking people)!

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
SchumieRules wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall...


jammin78, I knew it from your avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4v-qiFvBg

It is you!!!

(Sorry Asphalt I couldn't resist)


I personally think it is the intent of saying something, not really what words they are using. If someone called me a blond lovely individual, I wouldn't be offended by the blond part, as there is no proof that blonds are bastards... Apart from that time I threw that puppy in the motorway (joking people)!


Thing is, it's not about having any proof about blonds being bastards. Blonds (as far as I am aware) are not really picked on in the same way people with ginger hair have been. Now don't get me wrong, it's not like it's similar to the centuries of abuse, slavery, segregation etc that some ethnic groups have suffered, but on average, as a child I was called a name that included the colour of my hair on a weekly basis, sometimes many times each week. If I reported it to the school nothing was done about it regarding the issue of my hair colour.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thing is, it's not about having any proof about blonds being bastards. Blonds (as far as I am aware) are not really picked on in the same way people with ginger hair have been. Now don't get me wrong, it's not like it's similar to the centuries of abuse, slavery, segregation etc that some ethnic groups have suffered, but on average, as a child I was called a name that included the colour of my hair on a weekly basis, sometimes many times each week. If I reported it to the school nothing was done about it regarding the issue of my hair colour.


I don't know if they are picked on as much as the gingers, but the blond jokes are right up there when it comes to taking the mickey!

Now my mother is ginger with freckles so for some weird reason my goatee gets the same colour (f*cking genetics, why just the goatee?). Everyone thinks I'm dyeing it ginger so I have been joked around a bit, but nothing too nasty. I have to admit though, where I'm coming from we didn't have many gingers, I only remember one kid at school that was a cool kid anyway (so no one was making fun of), so I haven't come across this one too much. Maybe I'm not the best person to comment on this.

Your situation is completely different though, if you had to report it to school I take it that it was not about kids just joking, it sounds border-line bullying at school.

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Yeah the bullying bit is part of what I'm researching. I have a complicated working life but to put it simply I work with a lot of looked after children, adopted children and children with a difficult home life. A lot of them have suffered more in their first few years of life than most of us will do in out entire life.

Hair colour (amongst other things) is something I'm trying to get a grip on as it's yet another thing some of these children have to deal with when they have enough going on in their life and minds already!!!

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
I see. I can't see any difference than any other types of bullying really. The bullies will find anything to make fun of. Ginger hair is one of them I suppose. Looking at your original question, I think that it is exactly the same calling someone a ginger-this or a purple-that; it's the context that matters, the insult intended.

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1571
Picking on ginger people - the only acceptable form of racism?

I don't like it, and I've never noticed it until people pointed it out to me. I once was seeing a ginger girl... and I didn't even realise until my friends pointed it like "oh gosh she's ginger..." I was quite offended.

I think ginger people are beautiful too.

_________________
Lewis Hamilton Fan's Mood Race by Race: :( 8) 8) 8) 8) :evil: :-(( :) :D :proud: ;) x( 8) 8) :uhoh: 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 3001
I've been thinking for some time about making a documentary on this very topic, but I've been saving it until I have more time and money.

I totally agree, it seems most prejudice is frowned upon, yet people still make ginger jokes out in the open. you'd think as a society we'd be over this level of discrimination.

_________________
XVII To a swift recovery.

VI LXXVII XIV X
Image
gif from reddit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Some excellent posts. Never considered the split between male and female celebs with ginger hair. It's a great point.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 2075
The issue is incredibly complex and is not a simple yes/no answer.

Firstly, actively discriminating against someone solely on an attribute of their physical appearance, is equally unfair. So, to say you didn't like someone because they were ginger or not like them because they are black with equal degrees of malice is equally wrong.

Of course, this is conditional upon it being with harmful or negative intentions; simply teasing or joking around doesn't count. Being teased about an attribute may be irritating but it isn't racism (or haircolourism) it's just a joke. It might be an unpleasant joke, it might not be a nice joke or even a morally justifiable joke but if it is intended as a joke it isn't racism.

Of course, it is racism if any of the intent is not in humour, so making a racist comment and then claiming it is a joke is racism. This is getting a little circular, I appreciate, but it's a very fine line.

I'll be honest, I'm shocked at the comment made about "not bringing home a ginger" and am more inclined to believe it was just a bad joke than a genuine intention as outside of school children bullying I've never met anyone who genuinely hates upon ginger haired people, certainly never an adult.

It should be pointed out that not being attracted to ginger haired people isn't racism, neither is not being attracted to a particular ethnicity; you can't help who you are attracted to.

Secondly though, and this is important, the big think with racism towards black people being treated with a greater sensitivity than other forms of discrimination is because of the historical context; the decades of slavery followed by decades of segregation. While we have moved on, at least legislatively, society doesn't move as fast. Yes, most people have moved on and find the idea of being racist reprehensible but not everyone has. That's why the BNP gets a million votes each election, which is nearly 2% of the population.

So, while on a theoretical level discriminating against someone because they have black skin is not different to discriminating against someone for having ginger hair there has to be a greater degree of sensitivity to racism towards black people due to the historical context. The same with issues relating to Jews and the Holocaust, whether it fails to make sense from a completely objective viewpoint is irrelevant, the history makes it a subjective issue.

Finally, people constantly commenting on a physical attribute might be annoying but it isn't racism. It's just annoying and is in no way comparable no matter how irritating it might get. I have had people comment on many attributes about me and they annoyed the hell out of me, but to compare it to malicious racism is an incredibly ignorant comparison.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Thanks for the post but has anyone actually compared it to malicious racism?

Oh and if that chap had been joking about not wanting his daughter to bring home a bloke with ginger hair, that doesn't make the comment any more acceptable.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 2075
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thanks for the post but has anyone actually compared it to malicious racism?

Oh and if that chap had been joking about not wanting his daughter to bring home a bloke with ginger hair, that doesn't make the comment any more acceptable.

If that chap was not joking about not wanting his daughter to bring home a ginger haired person then clearly that is less acceptable than joking about it because it means he would be actively discriminating.

It doesn't mean it is acceptable though.

With regards to comments such as "you black pwont/you ginger pwont" well neither of those are actually technically racist because the offensive word is not the adjective. Now, it could become a racist comment, and often is, if the adjective is said with the intent of it being a pejorative however it is not automatically the case.

Is using ginger as a pejorative the same as using black as a pejorative? Objectively: yes, in reality, no.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 2073
Well I might be able to offer a different perspective, I myself am not ginger nor am I abnormally tall or fat, in fact if anything I'm abnormally normal but on the skinnier side.

I have had a lot of friends that are Gingers, now when it comes to the term Ginger I see nothing wrong, its the same as calling someone a Brunette or Blonde, however some may be sensitive and in that case or if you are not sure the term Red Head is more socially acceptable (but there is a difference between red heads and gingers). When it comes to abuse I never noticed them being singled out because of their hair colour, but when they where being abused more often then not their hair would be the focus. Terms like Dirty Ranga, Tampon etc would be thrown about but not because it's "Racist" to single out hair colour, more so its the most obvious feature of the individual and the easiest thing to point out to make them fell "different" to get a reaction from them.

_________________
Danger is real, fear is choice.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Round Result: 1st (Monaco 2012, Silverstone 2014)
Podiums: 5
2014 Championship Standing: *mumble*


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
f1madman wrote:
I don't like it, and I've never noticed it until people pointed it out to me. I once was seeing a ginger girl... and I didn't even realise until my friends pointed it like "oh gosh she's ginger..." I was quite offended.

Exactly my experience. I went to a normal school in the south of England but for some reason it didn't happen, I can't remember a single occasion when I heard someone use the word ginger or foucs negatively on someone for being ginger. At university with a different group of people it was run of the mill to use the word pejoratively.

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
SchumieRules wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall...


jammin78, I knew it from your avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4v-qiFvBg

It is you!!!

(Sorry Asphalt I couldn't resist)


I personally think it is the intent of saying something, not really what words they are using. If someone called me a blond lovely individual, I wouldn't be offended by the blond part, as there is no proof that blonds are bastards... Apart from that time I threw that puppy in the motorway (joking people)!

Hmm, I'm interested to see what this video is now... damn having to wait until I get home!

PS - I'm going to get in trouble for that Christina Hendricks picture, I keep scrolling through the page and glancing at her mamary gla---hair!

I would like to add that red head/ginger does have some male "lookers" haha. Prince Harry, some people in soap operas here in UK... um... OK, you're right, females are often more accepted with red hair than the males. Its a strange one. Oddly enough I know quite a good number of people who say that my slight gingerness is an endearing quality, a lot of people seem to find it attractive in a man. I wonder if the bullying stems from jealousy of the brighter hair colour...

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 1547
Again, thanks for all the interesting points above.

The fame issue is interesting. If I start a list of famous people with ginger hair, could you all add to it please. Famous being either world known or nationally known in your own county but to a John level of fame. i,e. Chris Evans. Very famous in the UK but I don't think would wide.

Males
Chris Evans
Ed Sheran
Ton Howard
Rupert Grint


Females
Nicole Kidman
Gillian Anderson
Isla Fisher
Geri Halliwell
Lindsey Lohan
Alyson Hannigan

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
Julianne Moore, one of my fave actresses :)
Whatserface from Spider Man 3... Bryca Dallas Howard?

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 867
Location: Qart-Hadast
Several concepts come into mi mind after reading this: assertiveness, respect, fear of the different and what it brings with it.

Just read Plato, he said a lot of the reasons that make a man hate another. On the psychologycal side... well, where to start?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
jammin78 wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall...


jammin78, I knew it from your avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4v-qiFvBg

It is you!!!

(Sorry Asphalt I couldn't resist)


I personally think it is the intent of saying something, not really what words they are using. If someone called me a blond lovely individual, I wouldn't be offended by the blond part, as there is no proof that blonds are bastards... Apart from that time I threw that puppy in the motorway (joking people)!

Hmm, I'm interested to see what this video is now... damn having to wait until I get home!

I can't see it from work either, but when you said you were tall I immediately thought of the trooper who bangs his head on the door in A New Hope.

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1287
Asphalt_World wrote:
Again, thanks for all the interesting points above.

The fame issue is interesting. If I start a list of famous people with ginger hair, could you all add to it please. Famous being either world known or nationally known in your own county but to a John level of fame. i,e. Chris Evans. Very famous in the UK but I don't think would wide.

Males
Chris Evans
Ed Sheran
Ton Howard
Rupert Grint


Females
Nicole Kidman
Gillian Anderson
Isla Fisher
Geri Halliwell
Lindsey Lohan
Alyson Hannigan


Paul Scholes,
Damian Lewis,
Prince Harry (and that dude Diana had a thing with)
Mick Hucknall
Newton Faulkner
Greg Rutherford


the ginger one from Girls Aloud.
Sarah Ferguson (and possibly her kids as well),
Isla Fisher
Kate Winslet
Karen Gillan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 2973
Nicole Kidman, as a red head around the time of Eyes Wide Shut, is very likely the most beautiful person I have ever seen. She's still gorgeous now, but she doesn't get in the nude anymore. She's been mentioned already but seriously, just stunning.

Bonnie Wright, who was Ginny Weasley in the Harry Potter films.

For those who remember films from the 80s, Molly Ringwald. She's not so famous any more but still a big name.

Lily Cole - model or something.

From comic books, Wally West - Kid Flash then later Flash (3rd incarnation)...


In all honesty, other than Sheamus from WWE and Mick Hucknall I don't have a mind for ginger men. Plus, for my money there is a difference between a ginger and a red head. A lot of the ones mentioned for women, imo, are red heads not ginger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 3476
Where does it stop?
Traditional bingo calling has been stopped due to 'two fat ladies. 88' etc. Can you call someone 'bignose' or baldly, or 'fatarse' or even 'bean pole'?

Next in line, its 'man'

PS

I love ginger birds :] .

(and blond ones)
(and brunet ones)
(and plump ones)
(Oh, and skinny ones)
(and short ones)
(and tall ones)
lhe list goes on

_________________
I have nothing to offer but blood, oil, gears, and sweat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2630
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
mac_d wrote:
Nicole Kidman, as a red head around the time of Eyes Wide Shut, is very likely the most beautiful person I have ever seen.

:nod:

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Wrexham, UK
moby wrote:
Where does it stop?
Traditional bingo calling has been stopped due to 'two fat ladies. 88' etc. Can you call someone 'bignose' or baldly, or 'fatarse' or even 'bean pole'?

Next in line, its 'man'

PS

I love ginger birds :] .

(and blond ones)
(and brunet ones)
(and plump ones)
(Oh, and skinny ones)
(and short ones)
(and tall ones)
lhe list goes on

I have no idea why, but I read that as "Ginger Beards" and got totally confused when you said plump and skinny ones. I thought it was some strange facial hair fetish and new ways to describe beards, but turns out I just can't read.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
Balibari wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
For instance, one things that really annoys me is people's remarks about my height. I'm quite tall...


jammin78, I knew it from your avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4v-qiFvBg

It is you!!!

(Sorry Asphalt I couldn't resist)


I personally think it is the intent of saying something, not really what words they are using. If someone called me a blond lovely individual, I wouldn't be offended by the blond part, as there is no proof that blonds are bastards... Apart from that time I threw that puppy in the motorway (joking people)!

Hmm, I'm interested to see what this video is now... damn having to wait until I get home!

I can't see it from work either, but when you said you were tall I immediately thought of the trooper who bangs his head on the door in A New Hope.


Exactly!!!

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group