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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:11 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
moby wrote:
Where does it stop?
Traditional bingo calling has been stopped due to 'two fat ladies. 88' etc. Can you call someone 'bignose' or baldly, or 'fatarse' or even 'bean pole'?

Next in line, its 'man'

PS

I love ginger birds :] .

(and blond ones)
(and brunet ones)
(and plump ones)
(Oh, and skinny ones)
(and short ones)
(and tall ones)
lhe list goes on

I have no idea why, but I read that as "Ginger Beards" and got totally confused when you said plump and skinny ones. I thought it was some strange facial hair fetish and new ways to describe beards, but turns out I just can't read.



Me too :D
If I grow a beard it is (OK was) ginger even though I am (OK was) blond.
(Everything is shades of gray now)

What I was getting at is the intent in the statement, not the content of it.

For example even where I was brought up, a person from as close as 5 miles away were called something. Was that 'racism'?

Is a 'Scouser' calling someone a 'Georidy' arse more offensive than calling them a British arse or English arse.
Would being called it by a Scot or Welsh be considered more offensive?

You can put or take this sort of offense to as small a degree as you want

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:08 pm 
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AW, I agree with those that have pointed out that "racism" is not the right word here, in the same way that, say, "xenophobia" would not apply either - but certainly "discrimination" does.

I find all types of discrimination, whether because of race, nationality, gender, religion or whatever cause equally despicable. I don't think that discrimination because of any other cause is less malicious than discrimination because of race. But to be brutally honest, some types of discrimination are less politically correct and hence less noticed than others - which is very unfair, but I think is the reality.

The level of political correctness of or notice given to one or another reason for discrimination varies with cultures, and in my opinion that different approach reflects both the history and the specific circumstances of said cultures. For example, in Spain you do not really get "ginger" comments (at least, I have never heard any references!) - it is a non issue, and I guess one of the reasons is that there are so few people with that hair colour that one cannot establish a trend in comments regarding that physical characteristic. Hence, I think that a "ginger" comment would go largely unnoticed and understood as something personal rather than as something more serious. References to other aspects would be more easily identified and would get a stronger reaction.

Edit: Alien, I just saw that you made the same points I tried to make above, and in a far more articulated way! So I defer to your post (and next time I'll read the whole thread carefully before jumping the gun :blush: )


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:56 pm 
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morgana wrote:
but certainly "discrimination" does.

I am not sure even discrimination hits the nail on the head. Come the next election you will be asked to discriminate between that candidate whose opinions and values are most in line with yours. Certain retailers value "discriminating buyers" who prefer the high margin items and so on. The problem is the grounds on which the discrimination is based and whether those grounds are reasonable and non-offensive: they don't have to be accurate. I prefer brand "X" beans over Brand "Y" because I am unaware they are produced in the same factory and I like the cute dog in the advert.
It is also the attachment of other attributes to the factor in question that is often offensive. I knew a tall bloke once he was as thick as a brick. I think all tall people are stupid. Clearly this is offensive because it's patently untrue and it is an unreasonable conclusion to draw from the evidence available.
I am sure someone can clean up this line of thought and put my point more cogently than this but this is just a quick knee-jerk to what little of the whole thread I have just read


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Asphalt_World: interesting topic. Whatever one is bullied for, it's a negative experience. I happen to know of a study at Cambridge University on this very topic: whether being bullied for group-characteristics such as race, gender, age or religion makes a person better or worse off than being bullied for individual characteristics such as height, weight, hair colour. You can read about it here:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 0701550573
O’Brien, C. (2007). Peer devaluation in British secondary schools: Young people’s comparisons of group-based and individual-based bullying. Educational Research, 49, 297-324.

This study is the first systematic investigation of group-based bullying compared directly with individual-based bullying. It asks the question, "Where is the precise location of that differential suffering, such that one form of bullying can be said to be more insidious, more damaging, or more capable of evoking anger and feelings of injustice, than the other?"

Nearly 500 young people from East London and Cambridgeshire were interviewed. It was found that they have up to 6 different considerations which they use for evaluating the severity of name-calling. Students gave a large number of reasons why group-based bullying is worse. However, they also gave a similar number of reasons why group-based bullying is in fact less damaging than individual-based bullying.

I hope this helps with your research.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Great link. Many thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:51 am 
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I would rather look at it from different perspective as a bullying, discrimination or other abuse, rather than trying to figure why it occurs -- in this case due to red hair (but it can be race, position in society, personality, nationality etc). They are all abuses regardless of source or existence of more specific name for that abuse. Racism itself is either bullying or discrimination etc, it's just for good reasons highlighted issue and given specific name and definition.

This may explain why I was so angry about that infamous prank with nurse. People picked her because they thought he is stupid.




huggybear wrote:
Not really except me and my siblings all have freckles around the nose. Like this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgucr ... o1_500.jpg

I know that we are all real people, but somehow I always imagined you as a some kind of bear (I know you aren't bear, but still.... :blush: ), even before avatars were brought here.
This image made my condition even worse. Image

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
This is an interesting subject. I come from a family of redheads of all sorts of shades. My husband would tell you that I am a redhead. In fact that is how we met. We were both living in the same apartment block & he had seen me around. Coming from a family with an Italian background with everyone having olive skin & dark hair, he has always fancied women with red hair, fair skin & freckles. Add green eyes, & that was me. When he spotted me he made sure that he engineered it so that he was in the lift with me one morning before work when it was raining so that he could offer to drive me to work as we worked only a street away from each other. We've basically been together ever since. Now that I am 25 years older, some would debate that I am more blondey brown with a hint of red than a redhead. If you look at my hair in full sunlight, though, you can definitely see the red shining thru. Three of my nieces have almost exactly the same coloured hair & one of my nephews has bright red hair.

My youngest brother, just two years older than I, had dark red hair when he was younger as does both of his children (male & female). He certainly never had a problem with having red hair as girls a plenty fancied him. In fact, it was a joke between us that I could always tell which females fancied him at high school as they would suddenly become very friendly with me :D.

The funny thing is, although I come from a family of redheads, am one myself & have had lots of friends (especially males) with red hair, I have never fancied red head guys. I think this stems from when I was very young. We didn't have TV when I was growing up so, as a treat, my mother would take my youngest brother & I once a week to the visit the lady on the farm next door to watch TV for a couple of hours while she & our neighbour had a chat. The next door neighbour had one of her grandsons living with her &, for some reason, he decided he really fancied me. This might sound reasonably normal but I was about 10 or 11 & this guy was like 19 or 20, not normal at all, especially as he became, what today, would be called a stalker. He had ginger hair & since then I have had a thing about guys with ginger hair. It's not rational, I know, but there you are. I don't have a problem with guys with red/ginger hair per se but something inside me just turns off when it comes to the fancying thing & I have known some gorgeous guys (both inside & out) with red hair.

Here in Australia we, not only have a female Prime Minister, but she is also a redhead or a "ranga" as we call them here. As you can imagine, there have been many jokes made about her redhair which I do find quite amazing. Why does her hair colour even come into it? BTW, research has found that redheads generally have higher intelligence or at least that's what I tell my boss :lol: . The last bit IS a joke BTW.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:56 am 
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I always thought that it was really a joke; it's hardly racism (since when is having certain hair colour a race?)

I've never seen anyone actually discriminate against gingers at all; it's sort of become the norm to make fun. Doesnt make it discrimination.

I have to say that I find it funny how seriously you all are taking it.


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