planetf1.com

Got myself a Polar HRM watch thingy to try and help keep myself motivated (which it does), but the training programme it’s come up with (supposed to focus on weight loss) wants me to concentrate on quite low intensity exercise, which I actually find quite hard because it doesn’t feel challenging enough. i.e. it only wanted me to do 4.5 hours last week, burn 1,700 calories, and keep my heart rate below 140bpm – I did over 8 hours exercise and 3,700+ calories, but more than half was at a heart rate between 155-160 (177 max so far).

Does anyone have first hand knowledge and experience of this stuff?

Bearing in mind I want to improve overall fitness as well as lose a bit of weight, should I be trying to stick with the lower intensity exercise, or am I just as well off carrying on at a level I’m happy with?

I’ve tried researching on the web, but a lot of the info out there is contradictory and confusing. e.g. best way to lose weight is by staying within the fat burning heart rate zones vs’ you get more benefit at higher heart rates / effort – both can’t be right, can they?


PS
Started exercising two weeks ago, doing 2.5 - 6K walks at lunchtime, and also 40 – 60+ minutes on the cross trainer at home in the evening - built up over the last couple of weeks.

From what I remember, low intensity-longer duration is better for weight loss/fat burning, whereas high intensity-shorter duration is better for definition/muscle building. So that would sound about right from what I recall. As ever though, I could be wrong.

It entirely depends what you're after. I've been focusing on maintaining a steady heart rate lately in the gym, to match what my age should be, in preparation for various treks (Everest/Kilimanjaro!!!) I'm aiming to save and go on over the next couple of years. I've long since given up trying to build/define muscle as I don't seem to gain or lose weight, ever.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I thought the same about low intensity exercise, but then I started looking things up on the net...

Good luck with the Everest thing. Been to the foothills of the Himalayas, but actually getting to Everest is something else entirely - well worth training for.

Legend!! a man after my own heart!!

my family is from tanzania so kilimanjaro is special to me (although i've not climbed it)

my friend has climbed it, says it was pretty tough due to the altitude, but very rewarding!

one of my dreams is to at least get to everest base camp, that would be grand,

when you do these treks, make sure you post about them, and lots of pics too!!!!

I believe that generally, the indication of lower intensity but longer is better for fat burning is correct.

(next bit from memory)

I believe that it's down to the processes within your body that go on during exercise. For fitness improvement, you need to do higher intensity exercise as the heart and lungs need to be worked hard to push their limits to develop (similar to lifting weights to develop muscle). But the problem for fat burning is that during intense exercise, the muscles of the body cannot get enough oxygen to utilise fat stores and therefore look for other energy sources.

I think it's also additionally that post-intense exercise, the body is in energy store deficit and therefore immediately tries to store extra energy - particularly through adding to existing stores like fat.

Doing lower intensity exercise for longer allows the body to access and process the fat stores for energy, but it doesn't put the body into such a deficit that it tries to replace these post exercise.

I think the balance of the cross-over is interesting. I think that the usual amounts (without looking them up) is something like over 80% Max BPM for Cardio, under 60% for fat burning and somewhere in the middle for a combo of both.

I also remember a tip to cover these areas of:

Under 60% - you should be able to hold a conversation confortably
Over 80% - you should only just about be able to say brief sentences before needing your next breath

Or something like that.

If you are looking to burn fat at this stage, I would suggest trying to avoid getting to intense, but there should be minimal issue with pushing beyond having the exercise being too easy.

I find the internet conflicting over many things, I often try to find advice on something or another and end up thinking "but it gives me conflicting information...". Its a pain in the backside! My main struggle is finding the right techniques for swimming actually. I've learnt to swim properly this past year, and think I'm getting to a good level, but finding the balance in intensity/duration is really difficult I find for that one. Running, biking etc I'm happy with the balance I've found, but swimming is not so good haha.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

Well the first step is going to Base Camp next year, then Kilimanjaro, Elbrus, Mt McKinley... never know one day I might get to the peak of Everest, but I'm a long way off that! Definately need to work on my climbing abilities before I get close! The main thing holding me back from doing these things sooner is the cost involved (as always!), but I'll be documenting each trip fully when I do them fo'sho!

My main dream is to see Earth from space, but as that's a bit too farfetched without $$$$$$$, looking down from mountains and planes is as close as I'm going to get for now haha.

_________________
"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I really don't know about the heart intensity. but i will share my experience.

I started exercising a year ago with the intention to gain fitness back and lose weight. I started out by running and my end target was to simulate my previous rowing training i did pre-college ( i had to quit and focus on study during college and gained a MASSIVE amount of weight).

I did the running (low rate but continuous) alright but when it came to the muscle exercises (very intense but short) i was bored out of my head so decided to just do running and instead of doing the mindless muscle exercises i decided to do them in a bit more fun way as sports!

so for my back and chest i did an hour long or 1 km swims. for my arms i played basketball (which i was in the local team back in school as well). and for the legs i did runs which varied in distance and speed depending on the day's schedule ahead.

Now, a year later, i have lost 20 kg, can run much longer than i did during the rowing days ( i now can do an hour and a half running easily), and thoroughly enjoy my training exercises of running, swimming and playing basketball. i am fitter than ever and i am going to keep this up to lose 20 more kg and be in super shape. I wanted to do cycling as well but the country here is not very suitable for that. now i do around 3 sessions or more (or less) a week depending on work and total i would say i run around 22-25 km a week, swim around 2 km, and play basketball for around 2 hours.

Just do things that are fun to you and you will always challenge yourself and won't even notice.


Another advice is that if you want to lose weight fast, eat just 1 meal a day (you choose its time) including whatever you want, preferred to be grilled food.

Forget the fat burning zones, it's really bad science that won't go away

Whilst lower intensity exercise uses a greater proportion of fat as an energy substrate (around 60%) compared to higher intensity work (around 30%), this is all pretty irrelevant because the acute use of energy isn't a good measure, you need to see the bigger picture and that of course is total amount of calories burned where higher intensity exercise always wins

(at the very lowest intensity like laying down, you're at around 100% of fat being used as a substrate..don't lay down to get lean though)

Also higher intensity work depletes glycogen you'll increase whole body fat oxidation which in the bigger picture is far more important than a slightly harder % of fat being used during training

But if you're just trying to get lean, doing lots of very low intensity work such as walking at 4 mph every day for an hour + calorie restriction works really well, won't bump cortisol up like medium intensity work, won't get injured and due to the fact that you can sustain it for a long time, you'll be able to burn a ton of calories with little effort

Thanks guys, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's best to just do as much as you can fit in. Even if it's not the most effective form of exercise, you must be better off doing something rather than nothing - would be nice to know you're getting as much as possible out of the effort you're putting in though.

Anyway, I'm trying to cover both bases at the moment, started at 2.5k but now do just over 6km (hilly) walks at lunchtime 5 days a week (weather permitting), and then 30-60 minutes on the cross trainer, between getting home from work and making dinner, Mon-Fri + Sunday - Saturday I'm not doing anything. Started varying intensity on the cross trainer, really go for it for a few minutes, then recover for a bit, then really go for it again... Also doing stuff like semi-crouching, which is an absolute killer on the thighs, varying restistence levels all the time etc..

I like the watch/heart rate monitor because it guestimates how many calories I'm using up, and keeps tabs on how long I've exercised for, and what distance I've gone. It's also good for keeping a check on your resting heart rate and estimated VO2max. One of my older brothers had a heart bypass last year, so I'm quite interested in keeping an eye on it. Not sure if it's even close in terms of calories burned, but it's a good motivator.

The main objective at the moment is to get a bit fitter before we go skiing, so want to keep things fairly low impact / not mess up my knees. We're also looking at doing either some back country skiing (which would involve a lot of ascents), or snow shoeing, so need both strength and stamina. Altitude isn't much of an issue where we're going, it's only 6,500ft at the base, but Jackson Hole is one of the most consistently steep ski areas in the world, and the best bits of the mountain are ungroomed, so overall fitness is quite important, particularly thigh strength and core stability. You need strong legs to absorb all the bumps - my tecnique's good but that only gets you so far.

We're also probably going to go back to Chamonix this summer to do a bit more hiking, and I'd like to try something a little more challenging this time.

Then of course I want to get my weight down by about 8-10kg (my BMI is just touching 25), but that isn't as important as fitness levels - I assume/hope weight loss will just come.

My weight gain has been very gradual, and I'm pretty sure it's more to do with a couple of glasses of red wine just about every day, rather than actual diet (plus lack of regular exercise), so I've drastically reduced alcohol consumption and I've cut down/out sugar in hot drinks, but there's not much more I can do about diet. Don't eat much fatty food, and hardly ever touch fast foods or fizzy drinks.


PS I tested the wife's resting heart rate at the weekend, it was below 54 even when she wasn't properly relaxed (mine's just under 60), she only does a couple of hours a week in the gym, plus a few hours a week teaching pilates. Age adjusted, that puts her in the super fit / getting on for athlete category - now I've got to try and match/beat her...

I've started a regime where i run about 2km a day (we've bought a treadmill so it makes things easier) and also walk 4km a day (only this week have i started this, and also its a pretty brisc walk ~42mins for 4km)

over the course of 3 weeks, i've lost 3 kilos in weight. This is also due to the fact i've changed my diet (more important i think in terms of weight loss) i'm going to continue doing this as i feel great during the day (instead of tired and lethargic)

Heart rate monitors are ok but when I did use one for a while I became obsessed with it. If my heart was not beating at the desired rate I felt the exercise was no good. These days I push myself 3-4 days a week on my bike or rowing machine when it snows or is too icy. I let my head work out how hard I am working out.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

Just found out that a KFC big daddy box meal contains 1400 calories! my god, guess i can't have that!

a zinger has 1075 though, so perhaps .....

thought i'll bump this thread!

I've been doing exercise for 8 weeks now, running 4 times a week (past 3 weeks i've been running 2 miles 4 times a week)
I also walk (brisk) 4 KM 6 times a week, after which i do a 1/2 Km run (as all my muscles are really warmed up then)


with all this, I've lost 10 Kg of weight in the past 8 weeks (only a kilo a week, but for me this is great!)

now to continue with this regime and get to an even lower weight (i'm aiming for 70 Kg (at the moment i'm 74 kg) which would be ideal)

I run 3 to 4 times a week.
I didn't start until I was 38 and I am now 45.
This is what I have learnt about running.
I'd like to add that I have always played sport, from football, badminton and karate. I can honestly say, that nothing gives me a better feeling than running , and earning my rest. Running gives you that personal medal, every time that you return from a run.

I am average at best, I'm no athlete.

(check with your Doctor if you have concerns)

1. Start off slowly, maybe 10 mins then build up to 20 to 30 mins. Jogging, not running. 4 weeks'ish.
2. 20 to 30 mins is enough, every other day.
3. You will quickly notice how much easier it gets.
4 Once you are comfortable with your 20 to 30 minute run, you can vary it.
5.You might want to run for longer, you may want to vary your route. The important thing is. You have gone from, not running, to actually choosing, how and where you run. Congratulations.

You are now more than capable of entering a 5k run. Maybe for charity or just a park run that are free. http://www.parkrun.org.uk/

Regarding heart rate and monitors.
If you want to lose weight and improve your fitness, follow the 5 steps above, sleep well, eat less rubbish ( I will qualify this at the bottom)*

The best way to burn excess weight is by varying your runs.
1. You can chose a day to simply jog for 20 mins to 30 mins.
2. You can interval train. Sprint for 20 seconds, jog again for 2 mins, sprint for 20 seconds..........etc
3. Hill run. Find a route or park with hills. Run hard up the hill and walk back down or walk to the next one.........
4. Strides. Jog as normal, then pick, maybe tree to tree or lamp post to lamp post and lengthen your stride. (it feels great)

The secret is variety, keep your body guessing, metabolism guessing. You WILL lose weight and your fitness will improve, in buckets.
*
My personal warnings.
Do not under any circumstances, starve yourself. If anything, you will eat more, just make sure it is not rubbish. You will need more calories, not less. Just the right calories.
Do not stretch cold muscles and tendons. The best way to warm up is to start your run slowly. Your muscles are like putty. If they are cold, they do not stretch, they break and snap!!

Hydrate, your pee should be straw coloured.

If you have a slight pull or niggle. Running will make it worse. Take a break. Ice at the onset of injury, followed by heat there after.

I hope this helps and makes sense. No one needs to be an athlete to call themselves a runner.
My only qualifications are from my personal experience.

thanks mate!

I've started at probably point 1 and 2.

I initially ran 1 mile, and then over the weeks increased it (a couple 100ms here and there) to 2 miles

this takes me about 21 mins to complete. I want to increase this, but at the moment, i'm just about able to do 2 miles, so will wait and see.

in terms of food, i don't normally have breakfast (i have a borocca tablet (multivitamin which dissolves in water) before i run in the morning

i have sandwiches for lunch and a regular evening meal, after my walk i have an assortment of fruit at 3pm

the weekends are my cheat days, so i have toast with peanut butter and jam for breakfast, with a light lunch (as i wake up later then usual) and a good dinner

i've stopped having sweets, chocolates, crisps and what people perceive as junk food. I have a biscuit or 2 a day if i have a cup of tea, but i feel great with what i eat, best feeling i've had in a while.

I think the major thing i've stopped is the binge drinking. the friday 4 pinter! I'm at home at the moment, so don't often go out, but if i do i have a couple of pints. A glass of wine here and there also.

my mate was asking if i wanted to do the 10Km run in leicester in may, not sure i'm ready for that yet...

Only attempt an organised event, if you have achieved that distance on a training run, it will really pee you off if you have to stop.
Other than that, sounds like your doing great mate.

10K runs are awesome. Thats your goal!

Great news. really well done.

Keep up the effort and watch those snacks that tempt us all.

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

I'm not worried about my weight or shape at the moment but the talk of heart rates interested me:

Normally they sit at about 70-80 BPM according to what I learned in school. Even after intense exercise mine rarely jumps to that level, hitting around 60 from a resting rate of 40-45. This about 5 years after that same lesson where we tested mine and it was going at 210 after a minute of fairly standard aerobic exercise. Given nothing has really changed in terms of my exercise levels or diet, does anyone know what could have caused that?

_________________
Copper Masked Sunrise
http://tufty1992.wordpress.com/
P-F1 PHOTO COMPETITION: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7089&p=271860#p271860
http://www.justgiving.com/CIN-Mystery-P ... 00b9467dcb

I had some anomaly related to heart (after tests it turned out that everything is ok) and I recommend you to go to the doctor. Anything related to heart is serious!

_________________
Renault!

2012 Planet F1 Prediction Competition Champion

I thought normal resting heart rate range was about 50-60, rather than 70-80.

I once had a major infection and my resting heart rate was 150 bpm. On the plus side, they got me stoned off my tits on morphine and sliced me open and gave me painkillers to take when I got home a few days later. Sounds odd, but they made my soul feel fuzzy.

Athlete can be as low as 40 including top military forces. Average joe.60 to 80

I am looking for the perfect fitness exercise, you know, the one that let's your mouth work out harder.

I do wish we still had the gym thread like we used to on the off topic section of the site, it's the only thread I've commented on.

I surf the 'on topic' site every day but some people tend to ruin it where as the 'off topic' is a far nicer place to be

shame!

You are allowed to start your own thread you know...

_________________
Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

I didn't want to start one and it bombed like so many others haha

Should have said before, doctor already said it was fine (albeit only listened to it for a few seconds) so I'm more curious about what it's doing than anything else.

Jammie2012 - I expect we could probably make this thread incorporate that, the above conversations would still be on topic if it became a general fitness thread.

_________________
Copper Masked Sunrise
http://tufty1992.wordpress.com/
P-F1 PHOTO COMPETITION: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7089&p=271860#p271860
http://www.justgiving.com/CIN-Mystery-P ... 00b9467dcb

We could possibly alter the name of the thread.

Thoughts and suggestions if you are interested.

Thank you.

I see. I'm glad that you are fine, although I can't explain that.

_________________
Renault!

2012 Planet F1 Prediction Competition Champion

Don't be discouraged, 1 kilo/2 lbs a week is considered an optimal rate of weight loss.
You're doing good, making steady progress, and setting reasonable goals. That's the best way to stay on track and motivated.

I'm kicking myself this evening because I needed to get a 9 mile run in today, but stopped after 2.5 because I allowed a strong wind to beat me psychologically. I'm training for a half marathon that's at the end of May so it's not like this is a big set back to my training, but the fact that I allowed myself to be beaten mentally irks me to no end!

Yeah, your head gives up before your body does.
Have you tried learning and repeating a Mantra ? which gives you motivation and a rhythm to keep you going, focused. Works for me, helps you ignore the demon in your head, telling you to stop.

Hadn't thought about trying a mantra before, at least not while running, use to do it when I was heavily into Taekwondo the night before a tournament. This was the first time something like that ever happened to me, usually I push myself to where I puke before slowing or quitting.

It was that it was totally a mental break down that kills me. Into a 15-20mph headwind I was still doing 8:15 minute miles without being winded or physically tired. The wind was just getting on my nerves, I should be use to it because the wind has been at least 10mph damn near everyday for the last month.

Oh well. Onward & upward.

I found all that heart rate weight loss zones info quite interesting, but not any more effective in a practical sense.

I lost 12 kilos running several times a week whilst having cereal for breakfast, meal replacement shakes for lunch and a met and veg dinner.. then I put 10 of it back on through stopping exercise over winter and my diet spiraling downwards into hell.

I joined a gym but put on as much muscle as I lost fat, doing weights isn't great if you're just looking for a smaller number on the scales.

Now I'm getting back into morning jogs, and delving into a 60 day intense cardio workout. See if I can get back down to my goal weight again and keep it there.

_________________
[[[[Mark Webber for the win in 2013 and beyond]]]
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[http://www.octanic.com]]]]]]]]]]]]

I was losing weight at about 1KG per week earlier this year, when I was doing a 5-6K walk at lunchtime + 30-40 minutes on the cross trainer in the evening, but then I went skiing for a couple of weeks, sprained my ankle when I got back, and haven't had time for lunchtimes walks.
I'm trying to make up for it by doing longer on the cross trainer in the evening (5-6 hours a week), but the last few pounds just doesn't want to shift.

My waist has gone from 34 back down to a comfortable 31 inch, I've lost about 8kg of fat, and my Vo2 Max has gone from 38 to 45 - supposed to be pretty good for my age.

Possibly the most interesting thing I've discovered since embarking on my get fit/lose weight campaign, is just how much rubbish advice there is out there.
Some of the things we accept as established facts are either gross over simplifications, based on bad research/science, or have even just been made up.

I also find it quite shocking that a great deal of the research into diet / health / nutrition is funded by organisations with a vested interest (e.g. food manufacturers), and that governement bodies responsible for diet and health advice in many cases include (or are controlled by) members who are also employed in the food and drinks industry - the people telling us what to eat are the same people selling us the food!

My body fat is too high and BMI is verge on over weight!!!

I'm aiming to reduce body fat % down by 7/8%

_________________
minus Vettel

mate, my bmi before i started my exercise was on the verge of obese!

i'm 5ft 6, 5ft 7, and i weighed 84 kilos (it was after my thesis submission, where basically i spent 17 hours a day at a desk eating all sorts of rubbish whilst writing)

I'm now down to 71.5 kilos (jeans, phone wallet etc weight), and still losing weight, (this is after just under 3 months of exercise). I think my weight is what it was 4-6 years ago (bang in the middle of my undergraduate degree, which is not bad)

my bmi is close to getting to the healthy weight level! i need to be around 70 kg for that.

i still have a belly, but i dread to think what it was like 3 months ago,
my old clothes fit me, too well in some cases, i need to wear a belt again!
i feel healthy and full of energy (before i use to feel really tired)

i think alcohol is something i need to be weary of, friday night outs + kebab after... not good (fried chicken as well, my god i use to eat rubbish!)

Most mainstream nutritional advice you'll read and see is garbage funded by the grain industry.

Saturated fat demonized by badly designed research papers whilst properly designed ones never get a mention by the media.

Over promotion of carbohydrate in the diet.

Dieticians still promoting low fat diets for long term fat loss when research shows time and time again prioritizing protein over any macronutrient beats all for satiety, thermic effect of feeding and many other lovely things.

Breakfast being touted as the most important meal of the day even when scientific intervention trials show eating later in the day reduces caloric intake, increases GH secretion, increases insulin sensitivity, improves nutrient partitioning amongst other things. All the data for breakfast being important with regards to weight control is epidemiological

With regards to your weight loss you're doing fine, I realise injuries suck, I had to quit athletics due to one and oly lifting has been curtailed by shoulder surgery.

If you want to lose more fat, get protein around 0.8g per lb of fat free mass, and time your carbs around training. If I need to lean out for a meet I just bump up the metabolic conditioning (get a kettlebell and destroy it for half an hour a few times a week) and start only having carbs around training

There's a big difference between the way you eat when you're training for competition (regardless of level) and the way you eat when you exercise for general health.

When "training" carb, and protein requirements are higher than a normal healthy diet. Carbs for glycogen (energy) protein for repair/rebuilding. The ratios will vary depending on what you're training for too. Endurance training like running and cycling require more carbs, strength training more protein, but not by a great deal, but a lot of the supplements take it to extremes throwing everything out of whack.

When you're eating for health things like the Atkins or cabbage soup diets are something to be avoided. Anything that calls for an big changes from a sane balance of meats, grains, fruits & vegetables is a no-go zone because by completely eliminating, or overemphasizing any of the above means you're getting too little or too much of something.

Most people in western societies these days get way too many carbs from grains and sweets without being active enough. So fad diets become popular with people who want to undo many years gaining weight in a couple of weeks. Keep steady with what you're doing and it will work out fine.

Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I've had a couple of good IPA's to get my carbs built back up after a good training run.

Sorry but there's a huge difference between atkins + other VLCD's compared to timed carbs. Even before a meet I'll be having 250g a day, it's just all peri/post workout to maximise GLUT4's translocation to the plasma membrane

I also think it's unfair to label VLCD's as 'fads', micronutrients are easy to get eating lots of non-starchy veg, and calories/stable energy met by meat and fat. I'm not a fan of VLCD's as ATP production speed sucks if you're lifting close to maximal effort repeatedly

For many many 'normal' people low carb, high protein and high ish fat is the diet that finally allows them to keep the weight off, stops them thinking about food all day long and gives them decent energy levels again

I had to laugh last night at the tv, a dieticians advice for a girl consuming 4000 calories a day (self reported total was 1500), was to eat more brown rice.

Unfortunately nutritionists and dieticians are 50 years behind the times

I wasn't trying to label all diets those as fads, but was instead talking more to some of the crazier ones. There are some low carb deits that are great and sustainable, and there are some that are desinged to get weight off quickly in preparation for surgery that people try to use for an extended time. I have a coworker who constantly goes on this stupid cabbage soup deit where 6 days a week that is the staple of the diet with different days being supplemented with milk & bannas, for fruits & vegetables. Any time I try to tell him that it's not sustainable his reply is "well I lost 25lbs last time I was on it" not taking into account that he gained 30 last time he wasn't on it.

Another problem is that no matter how good a deit is, a lot of folks who try it don't actually follow the deit. They learn the priciple of it "bread bad" and take it to extremes "I can still eat four hamburgers as long as there's no bun."

Anyway my main point was that there's a difference between the needs of somebody who is trying to eat well for health/weight loss and somebody who is training for competition. The way I'm eating right now (while training for an endurance event) is different than the way I will be eating at the end of May when the race is over. It's a matter of getting what you need based on what you do.