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A pint? I might buy you an entire brewery!!!

Didn't you guys beat City at the start of the season as well?

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Sadly not. We went 2-1 up at their place on the opening day of the season but couldn't quite hang on and lost 3-2.

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I remember when this website was all fields.

Pint!! I will get you a crate

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Round Result: =2nd (Europe 2012)
Podiums: 2 (Europe 2012, Singapore 2012)
Top 10 finishes: 5
2012 Championship Standing: =9th

Good game!

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Ryan Giggs scored today and has now scored in 23 consecutive season. Greatest Prem player ever.

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Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

The only downside to the game today is that now we've got 12 games with the media pushing the whole 'is it over yet' bullpoop... The season isn't over until EVERY prem game is finish... Not before then. Thought we had it last season and we let it slip away...

Blooming amazing to see Ryan Giggs still scoring... At least one goal in the last 23 seasons... The same number of years Tom Cleverly has been alive.

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Fixed that for you. Giggs isn't the greatest, he's a good player with a good fitness program.

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Thanks Bruce.

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I remember when this website was all fields.

Fixed that for you...

He is a great player - but I do agree that he's not the greatest...

I think players like Bergkamp, Cantona, Shearer, Henry, etc, etc might have something to say about that...

I wouldn't say Giggsy is THE greatest player... But he is right up there with the top players IMHO

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Greatest doesn't have to be ultimate best player at one point of time.

The reason I believe he is the greatest in the history of the premiership is that he has played a crucial part each and every season, not simply been the shining light for a few seasons amongst many.

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Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

I think the thing is though, that people normally associate the term "greatest" with being able to only be applied to one player. And I think that's where the issue is.

Obviously, you can have a collection of the greatest players, but I think people are just picking issue with you calling Giggs "the Greatest"... thinking it implies there are no better players in the history of the Prem - which in some ways there are...

Maybe it's just safer if we all call him a legend (cos I don't think anyone is going to break some of his records...

Maybe' I just look at the history of the premiership and believe he's been the most influential player in its history.

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Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

If that's how you want to judge it then it's hard to argue. To be consistent over 23 years is just remarkable.

However personally I'd rather judge the best Premier League player as the single most talented player who has played in the league, whether for 3 seasons or 23. And in that case I think Ronaldo and Henry are a class above the rest.

I would put Bergkamp in the same category, he was an absolute genius!

The only problem I have with him is a lack of consistency compared to Ronaldo and Henry who were on it seemingly every week.

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Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

For me, Bergkamp was a better player than Henry in so much as he didn't need to use his physical attributes to play the game. Thierry's fallen off badly at 35 because he hasn't got the pace or the power anymore that were huge parts of his game. Bergkamp, especially as the years went on, was more of an advanced playmaker than a striker.

Well that was grim.

Well that was grim.

But physical attributes are as much a part of a player's repertoire as technique and ball skill. Bergkamp was a more skillful player and was better at the age of 35 than Henry, but Henry's pace made him the better overall player at his peak. If we look only at technique then Zlatan Ibrahimovic would probably be the world's best player as Messi relies heavily on his pace and agility. And England's greatest ever player would probably be Matt Le Tissier.

Remember that if Andy Carroll were 6 inches shorter he'd work in a supermarket.

True, but when your physical attributes are a bigger part of your effectiveness than your actual ability to play football (like pretty much any pacy winger with an English passport), surely a player who functions without needing those attributes is a better player?
Meh, whatever. We could have done with either of them today

Also is it weird that I want to see Messi play in another team? Xavi and Iniesta (and Cesc) would make pretty much any player look good (except maybe Gervinho), and I'm curious to see how he'd do in a team that doesn't have such ridiculously good supply lines.

You think that was bad.

Today Portsmouth resorted to charging Carlisle £20 to park the team bus at Fratton Park, in a bid to raise funds.

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I remember when this website was all fields.

So he has to join a weaker team to be considered the best? That sounds like a familiar argument on this forum

Seriously though I do see your point. It is notable that Messi doesn't seem anywhere near as effective for Argentina where he gets less service, or at least he doesn't seem to play as well as Cristiano Ronaldo does for Portugal. I still see Messi as the best in the world right now, but I think Ronaldo would be more effective in a weaker team.

It's for this reason that I never really rated Andy Cole that highly in his Man Utd days. I would argue that most Premier League strikers would score 20 goals a season when playing in front of a midfield that contained Beckham, Scholes, Keane and Giggs all in their prime. Cole was always hopeless for England.

maybe not as effective, but 12 goals in 9 games for Argentina in 2012 (5 in world cup qualifiers and 7 in friendlies) isn't that bad going...

but that being said, Argentina have some superb players too

Not sure how Luiz got away with sending one of the brentford players into near unconsciousness wi his shoulder today.... Looked very deliberate, ref should have sent him off for that assault.

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Yeah.. Should have been red. Unnecessary and reckless.

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I would also add that while it's true Xavi, Cesc and Iniesta can make Messi shine, they can't make Alexis, Bojan (before) or this early season Villa and Pedro look any good

on a side note... oh man Arsenal ... humiliated by Blackburn and now this. Wenger out, now :/

found this while googling ...nice infographic

http://messivsronaldo.net/

Where is their 2011-12 champions league? Oh wait...yeah. Drogba has it.

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Another nail in the coffin for Wenger... Though I think the coffin is more nail than wood by now...

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Lee, did you see Wenger's Press conference yesterday? That is a man under serious pressure. He lost it.

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That press conference was selectively quoted from what I saw. He was fine until they asked him about his new contract, which according to him was a lie in The Sun intended to get hits.

He is under serious pressure though. And it's only getting worse with his inability to motivate the team and find a defensive coach that doesn't have 30 seats and a diesel engine.
He won't be fired, however bad it gets, but I can't see him extending his contract. Pretty much lost the fans at the moment, and the team isn't doing anything to change that. Poor performance after poor performance, a defence that can't defend, one striker in the squad. One left back in our European squad (not that it will matter soon).

I only saw the clip of him snapping... Would be interesting to see just what face the journo he snapped at was pulling... But it was strange that he snapped at a Q about him getting a contract extension, could be a sign that he's had the 'get better or GTFO' line from the board and the Q was enough to snap him.

TBH, I'm shocked that he's still there. The amount of decline that's happened under him is insane... From the invincibles to the unconvinvibles in only a few seasons, managers have gone for far less....

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the loon previously known as dr lee

Not easy being a Celtic supporter these days!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=143OGMSUedA

(Warning for bad language)

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I bet she's got a proud father.

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Going to Spa? Check out my site. http://visit-spa-francorchamps.page.tl/
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world
Oh and Bernie, National flags should be raised not flipped. Sort it!

Before he was appointed, we finished 5th in 95/96 and 12th 94/95. Yes we've regressed since 2003, but only from where he'd put us to begin with. A lot has changed in those 9 1/2 years.
What annoys me at the moment though is so very much like Kevin Keegan he is, relying on firing up the players rather than beating a team with superior tactics (or any tactics). Which he can't even do anymore.

indeed!

oh man...what a s* week, now barca also with a foot and a half out from the CL

we had to play one of the worst games this season yesterday against Milan...doh ~65 minutes with the ball to shoot one or two times in the goal. At least against Chelsea's bus we hit 4 times the post. Meh.

Breaking news: Fernando Torres shot his girlfriend 7 times after mistaking her for an intruder in their house. Luckily they all missed.

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I remember when this website was all fields.

It was a painful game to watch. There was too much side to side ball movement without any real attempt to score. Messi was forced to drop extremely deep to even get the ball and he was being hounded off the ball the moment he got it. Trying to play 4 MF's Iniesta, Xavi, Cesc, and Busquets just doesn't seem to be a successful tactic either last year or this year. We have to play another forward at the expense of one of them (my vote would be Fabregas for the second leg).

The team also missed having a coach, because I can't imagine why Pedro was still on at the end. He should have been subbed for Tello in the second half who has pace and gives us another dimension instead of trying the same thing that didn't look like it was working.

Oh well have to keep hoping that we can turn it around in the second leg. At least its at the Camp Nou and they should be able to pass the ball quicker and keep it moving around faster than at the San Siro.

Yeesh. Not to mention the second leg of the Copa del ray is coming up soon as well. If we manage to beat Madrid, should give the team a lot of confidence for the Milan game. Fingers crossed.

PS. Welcome back to the board!