Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.
So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?
Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.
Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.
But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.
Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."
come back okay?
One thing you must understand, I'm not sure if this fits in your small mind, but the laps with the Suzuki Liana is the only time where they have driven the same machinery around the same track under similar conditions and Hamilton was more than a second faster. This, as I have stated before, doesn't prove that Hamilton is faster in a Formula car, but when Hamilton and Vettel were youngsters they both raced in Formula 3 Euro series. A series where everybody races in the same machinery. Hamilton won the series in his second season by winning 15(16) out of 20 races, including at least one in every track. Vettel finished second behind Paul di Resta in his second season with "only" 4 race wins to his name. This of course proves nothing (for biased Button and Vettel fans), but I just wanted you to know.
Oh dear.
Oh dear.
Oh dear.
I'm not sure what to say to this,
I mean, the fact that you have referenced a joke I made, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know.
The fact that you are responding to a post so indignantly in which I even stated "Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana" with more ignorant regurgitation of Wikipedia surfing to further defend Hamilton says even more.
The fact that you are arguing against me as if I need convincing of Hamilton's worth when in the "Rate the Drivers 2012" thread of last year I ranked Hamilton highest.
Here are some facts:
Unless Hamilton and Vettel were to do their laps on the same day in the same car there are too many unknowns to start drawing any meaningful comparisons. The air temperature makes a huge difference on engine performance, the engine is at a different state of wear between Hamilton and Vettel's laps, the grip conditions are different depending on what rubber is on the track which depends on which tyres have been on the cars they have most recently been testing around there and/or if the track has recently been rained on and washed any rubber build up away. It's possible even that parts of the track may have been resurfaced between runs. The Top Gear test track is a great way of getting a ball park figure of comparison with HUGE, HUGE error margins.
Yes, they both drove the same car. That's one constant in a huge array of unknown variables to the point it becomes meaningless. Top Gear is an entertainment show. They time the laps with a hand held stopwatch judging them by eye. There is probably half a second of inaccuracy in that alone.
Their time in Formula 3. Yes. Hamilton smashed the field that year and that field included Vettel. But here's the thing - Vettel was 17 when that season started and Hamilton was 20. That's someone in their final year of High School versus some in their final year of University. A 20 year Karthikeyan should beat a 17 year old Alonso over the course of a season, so obviously Hamilton should smash Vettel.
And while the cars are equal, different teams in Formula 3 are better than each other. Do you think if you gave Red Bull a HRT car and they raced HRT that HRT would beat Red Bull as many times as Red Bull beat them (assuming equal drivers and no car development) - of course not. Red Bull would smash HRT because they are a much better outfit in ways beyond the capability of their vehicle. They run a tighter ship, more knowledgeable staff, are able to extract far more potential out of a car that HRT could.
You can moan and complain all you want, but quite frankly, you're lucky I even bothered to reply to you given your decision to directly insult me in your comments. If I don't choose to reply to whatever ill though out, logic free rambling you choose to string together in response to this, don't think it's because you've outwitted me and I am convinced by your superior argument. It'll be because you managed to slip back below absolute zero in terms of the level of respect I have for your views.
"I mean, the fact that you have referenced a joke I made, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know."
Now I'm convinced you're stupid.
"Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."" Read that again, okay? Do you get it? I was plaing a joke, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know. The excluding these: "
The comment" was a way of making fun of you. Now I understand why my joke was justified.
"The fact that you are arguing against me as if I need convincing of Hamilton's worth when in the "Rate the Drivers 2012" thread of last year I ranked Hamilton highest."We'rent you just trying to convince me that Vettel is better because speed isn't all that matters? Typical hypocrite.
"Unless Hamilton and Vettel were to do their laps on the same day in the same car there are too many unknowns to start drawing any meaningful comparisons. The air temperature makes a huge difference on engine performance, the engine is at a different state of wear between Hamilton and Vettel's laps, the grip conditions are different depending on what rubber is on the track which depends on which tyres have been on the cars they have most recently been testing around there and/or if the track has recently been rained on and washed any rubber build up away. It's possible even that parts of the track may have been resurfaced between runs. The Top Gear test track is a great way of getting a ball park figure of comparison with HUGE, HUGE error margins."You're definitely right, but 1.1 seconds? But the problem I'm seeing, haven't you read my previous posts in these threads? I never claimed that these laps are a guarantee that Hamilton is faster in a formula car.
"Yes, they both drove the same car. That's one constant in a huge array of unknown variables to the point it becomes meaningless. Top Gear is an entertainment show. They time the laps with a hand held stopwatch judging them by eye. There is probably half a second of inaccuracy in that alone."Are you sure? Even most go karts are accurate to the nearest thousand of a second.
"Their time in Formula 3. Yes. Hamilton smashed the field that year and that field included Vettel. But here's the thing - Vettel was 17 when that season started and Hamilton was 20. That's someone in their final year of High School versus some in their final year of University. A 20 year Karthikeyan should beat a 17 year old Alonso over the course of a season, so obviously Hamilton should smash Vettel."That's why I never mentioned that Vettel was in the same season as Hamilton was when Hamilton won 15(16) out of 20 races(And BTW, I've seen every one of them). It was Vettel's first season in the series and therefore it's not a fair comparison.
Also Hamilton is two years older than Vettel and not 3.
A 17 year old Alonso would have smashed a Karthikeyan at his peak. Even though he had only done 1 season or so in a Formula car.
"And while the cars are equal, different teams in Formula 3 are better than each other. Do you think if you gave Red Bull a HRT car and they raced HRT that HRT would beat Red Bull as many times as Red Bull beat them (assuming equal drivers and no car development) - of course not. Red Bull would smash HRT because they are a much better outfit in ways beyond the capability of their vehicle. They run a tighter ship, more knowledgeable staff, are able to extract far more potential out of a car that HRT could."Vettel and Hamilton were in the same team, perhaps you should have checked that out?
"You can moan and complain all you want, but quite frankly, you're lucky I even bothered to reply to you given your decision to directly insult me in your comments. If I don't choose to reply to whatever ill though out, logic free rambling you choose to string together in response to this, don't think it's because you've outwitted me and I am convinced by your superior argument. It'll be because you managed to slip back below absolute zero in terms of the level of respect I have for your views."Lol.
Login
Register
FAQ
Search
)
minus Vettel