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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:53 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
well we cant compare regular everyday driving/TG to WRC now can we? on the road it's easier but am sure as you said it would take more time on a competitive level.


Well that's it we're talking about around a track where car position can gain/lose a lot of time.

It's a shame TG doesn't have that GPS 3d overlay stuff that SKY has :lol: :lol:

dont get too carried away. :lol:



Now surely such a motorsport event should have GPS tracking and sector times :P

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
well we cant compare regular everyday driving/TG to WRC now can we? on the road it's easier but am sure as you said it would take more time on a competitive level.


Well that's it we're talking about around a track where car position can gain/lose a lot of time.

It's a shame TG doesn't have that GPS 3d overlay stuff that SKY has :lol: :lol:

dont get too carried away. :lol:



Now surely such a motorsport event should have GPS tracking and sector times :P

u mean such a motor event? that's not a sport :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:59 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
People are taking these lap times very seriously.......

:thumbup:

Do people really think that these lap times are in any way a reflection of the drivers' relative abilities in an F1 car?

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton

tell yourself first before you start wanting to tell Hamilton.

Hamilton may not of looked like he was taking it seriosuly but he was inside.

He wanted to beat Vettel's time.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:01 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
People are taking these lap times very seriously.......

:thumbup:

Do people really think that these lap times are in any way a reflection of the drivers' relative abilities in an F1 car?

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton


Do you really believe LH thinks it's a genuine marker against the other drivers who have been on TG? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
People are taking these lap times very seriously.......

:thumbup:

Do people really think that these lap times are in any way a reflection of the drivers' relative abilities in an F1 car?

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton


Do you really believe LH thinks it's a genuine marker against the other drivers who have been on TG? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

There all competitive they dont like losing


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:09 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
People are taking these lap times very seriously.......

:thumbup:

Do people really think that these lap times are in any way a reflection of the drivers' relative abilities in an F1 car?

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton


Do you really believe LH thinks it's a genuine marker against the other drivers who have been on TG? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

There all competitive they dont like losing


Fine. So am I. That doesn't answer my question though.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Whats your question?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:17 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
Whats your question?


Strangely enough, the sentence with a question mark after it.....

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
Whats your question?


Strangely enough, the sentence with a question mark after it.....

Thats the problem I dont see one!

Are you referring to this "People are taking these lap times very seriously......."


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:27 pm 
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It's this shape. ?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
It's this shape. ?

Yeah thanks for that useful


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:31 pm 
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No guys this does means Hamilotn is like th beST evvvvvarrrr in da hiztrie of sportz evvvvarrrrr.

Don't question it. Just embrace it and move on.











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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:09 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
People are taking these lap times very seriously.......

:thumbup:

Do people really think that these lap times are in any way a reflection of the drivers' relative abilities in an F1 car?

Tell that to Lewis Hamilton

tell yourself first before you start wanting to tell Hamilton.

Hamilton may not of looked like he was taking it seriosuly but he was inside.

He wanted to beat Vettel's time.

the mind reader :lol: :lol: seriously some of you are getting pathetic now with the silliness.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:11 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
Whats your question?


Strangely enough, the sentence with a question mark after it.....

Thats the problem I dont see one!

Are you referring to this "People are taking these lap times very seriously......."

how don't you see something that you quoted? :uhoh: :lol:
Do you really believe LH thinks it's a genuine marker against the other drivers who have been on TG?
that doesn't sound like a question to you? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:26 am 
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Last year, Hamilton usually was about 0.8 tenths faster than Button in qualifying. An F1 car is much more easier to drive to perfection than a Suzuki Liana. Even if he's only about 1-2 tenths faster (I'm not saying he is) than Vettel in an F1 car, he might well be over 1-2 tenths faster in a Suzuki Liana.

And BTW, I remember last year, when Vettel set the fastest time. Do you remember what Vettel fans said then? Hypocrites!

Also, Button fans call Hamilton fans "fanboys" and claim that we're ready to pick a fight for every criticism against Hamilton. You also said that now when Hamilton has left, you'll be happy to avoid the "fanboys" and that you feel sorry for fans of Rosberg. Well, if that's the case then what are you doing here in a thread praising Hamilton for being 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel over one lap? Picking fights with the "fanboys"!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:38 am 
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Qwertys wrote:
Last year, Hamilton usually was about 0.8 tenths faster than Button in qualifying. An F1 car is much more easier to drive to perfection than a Suzuki Liana. Even if he's only about 1-2 tenths faster (I'm not saying he is) than Vettel in an F1 car, he might well be over 1-2 tenths faster in a Suzuki Liana.

And BTW, I remember last year, when Vettel set the fastest time. Do you remember what Vettel fans said then? Hypocrites!

Also, Button fans call Hamilton fans "fanboys" and claim that we're ready to pick a fight for every criticism against Hamilton. You also said that now when Hamilton has left, you'll be happy to avoid the "fanboys" and that you feel sorry for fans of Rosberg. Well, if that's the case then what are you doing here in a thread praising Hamilton for being 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel over one lap? Picking fights with the "fanboys"!

I seldom, seldom do emoticons, but 8O


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:53 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
Last year, Hamilton usually was about 0.8 tenths faster than Button in qualifying. An F1 car is much more easier to drive to perfection than a Suzuki Liana. Even if he's only about 1-2 tenths faster (I'm not saying he is) than Vettel in an F1 car, he might well be over 1-2 tenths faster in a Suzuki Liana.

And BTW, I remember last year, when Vettel set the fastest time. Do you remember what Vettel fans said then? Hypocrites!

Also, Button fans call Hamilton fans "fanboys" and claim that we're ready to pick a fight for every criticism against Hamilton. You also said that now when Hamilton has left, you'll be happy to avoid the "fanboys" and that you feel sorry for fans of Rosberg. Well, if that's the case then what are you doing here in a thread praising Hamilton for being 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel over one lap? Picking fights with the "fanboys"!

I seldom, seldom do emoticons, but 8O


For the F1 drivers........


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:55 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
No guys this does means Hamilotn is like th beST evvvvvarrrr in da hiztrie of sportz evvvvarrrrr.

Don't question it. Just embrace it and move on.











:|


LOLOLOL I don't think so, just means we shouldn't let biased (Top Gear) people be in charge. I know this is a comedy thread in "Off Topic" but would just like to add that in the "Real F1 World" Vettel has won 3 WDC out of 4 and Hamilton 1 (lucky) out of 5. So no all hail the mods dice 8)

(lol, I know you were joking :D )

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:06 am 
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viariani wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No guys this does means Hamilotn is like th beST evvvvvarrrr in da hiztrie of sportz evvvvarrrrr.

Don't question it. Just embrace it and move on.











:|


LOLOLOL I don't think so, just means we shouldn't let biased (Top Gear) people be in charge. I know this is a comedy thread in "Off Topic" but would just like to add that in the "Real F1 World" Vettel has won 3 WDC out of 4 and Hamilton 1 (lucky) out of 5. So no all hail the mods dice 8)

(lol, I know you were joking :D )


So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:12 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
Last year, Hamilton usually was about 0.8 tenths faster than Button in qualifying. An F1 car is much more easier to drive to perfection than a Suzuki Liana. Even if he's only about 1-2 tenths faster (I'm not saying he is) than Vettel in an F1 car, he might well be over 1-2 tenths faster in a Suzuki Liana.

And BTW, I remember last year, when Vettel set the fastest time. Do you remember what Vettel fans said then? Hypocrites!

Also, Button fans call Hamilton fans "fanboys" and claim that we're ready to pick a fight for every criticism against Hamilton. You also said that now when Hamilton has left, you'll be happy to avoid the "fanboys" and that you feel sorry for fans of Rosberg. Well, if that's the case then what are you doing here in a thread praising Hamilton for being 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel over one lap? Picking fights with the "fanboys"!

I seldom, seldom do emoticons, but 8O

yea man that one had me scratching my head.
pretty sure it Hammond would disagree with that one too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:25 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
No guys this does means Hamilotn is like th beST evvvvvarrrr in da hiztrie of sportz evvvvarrrrr.

Don't question it. Just embrace it and move on.











:|


Instead, develop conspiracy theories?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:55 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
Last year, Hamilton usually was about 0.8 tenths faster than Button in qualifying. An F1 car is much more easier to drive to perfection than a Suzuki Liana. Even if he's only about 1-2 tenths faster (I'm not saying he is) than Vettel in an F1 car, he might well be over 1-2 tenths faster in a Suzuki Liana.

And BTW, I remember last year, when Vettel set the fastest time. Do you remember what Vettel fans said then? Hypocrites!

Also, Button fans call Hamilton fans "fanboys" and claim that we're ready to pick a fight for every criticism against Hamilton. You also said that now when Hamilton has left, you'll be happy to avoid the "fanboys" and that you feel sorry for fans of Rosberg. Well, if that's the case then what are you doing here in a thread praising Hamilton for being 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel over one lap? Picking fights with the "fanboys"!

I seldom, seldom do emoticons, but 8O

yea man that one had me scratching my head.
pretty sure it Hammond would disagree with that one too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo


Well maybe he meant that it's a car that he doesn't get to fine tune, and they get hardly a few laps to practise. Not that it is easier to drive around.

Because if that's what he meant then I'll use an emoticon too!

8O

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:32 am 
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Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:35 am 
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Somebody tell me I'm being had here and this is a spoof thread. Please......

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:42 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.

Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.

But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:54 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Somebody tell me I'm being had here and this is a spoof thread. Please......

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:34 pm 
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I hear prior to the first days test in Spain this week, a few of the drivers did sighting laps on electric scooters and LH was again quicker than Vettel by nearly 3 seconds......

Game set and match for LH really.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
I hear prior to the first days test in Spain this week, a few of the drivers did sighting laps on electric scooters and LH was again quicker than Vettel by nearly 3 seconds......

Game set and match for LH really.

That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
I hear prior to the first days test in Spain this week, a few of the drivers did sighting laps on electric scooters and LH was again quicker than Vettel by nearly 3 seconds......

Game set and match for LH really.

That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half.


I also hear Massa peed higher than the both of them and that's something considering how short he is!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
I hear prior to the first days test in Spain this week, a few of the drivers did sighting laps on electric scooters and LH was again quicker than Vettel by nearly 3 seconds......

Game set and match for LH really.

That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half.


I also hear Massa peed higher than the both of them and that's something considering how short he is!!!

Button was last back to the bar but that was only because the McLaren pit crew had a dodgy button on the hand dryer.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
I hear prior to the first days test in Spain this week, a few of the drivers did sighting laps on electric scooters and LH was again quicker than Vettel by nearly 3 seconds......

Game set and match for LH really.

That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half.


What was Lewis doing looking to know he only has a half?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.

Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.

But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.

i notice Hamilton critics making more noise than his supporters about this....when would people realize that it's a top gear track and that doesn't mean anything in relation to who is fastest/better etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?


No, that's what I'm understanding from Viarini's(spelling?) comment. If you would have read my first post here, you would have seen that I'm not even saying that Hamilton is necessarily faster than Vettel. I think he is, but I'm not sure.
Funny how you only criticizes comments praising Hamilton and never vice versa, "proves" my theory. You call me a "fan boy", but you should know that before I met you and Lauren, Button was my second favorite F1 driver. You're no different from us.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.

Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.

But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.


Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."
come back okay?
One thing you must understand, I'm not sure if this fits in your small mind, but the laps with the Suzuki Liana is the only time where they have driven the same machinery around the same track under similar conditions and Hamilton was more than a second faster. This, as I have stated before, doesn't prove that Hamilton is faster in a Formula car, but when Hamilton and Vettel were youngsters they both raced in Formula 3 Euro series. A series where everybody races in the same machinery. Hamilton won the series in his second season by winning 15(16) out of 20 races, including at least one in every track. Vettel finished second behind Paul di Resta in his second season with "only" 4 race wins to his name. This of course proves nothing (for biased Button and Vettel fans), but I just wanted you to know.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Qwertys wrote:
No, that's what I'm understanding from Viarini's(spelling?) comment. If you would have read my first post here, you would have seen that I'm not even saying that Hamilton is necessarily faster than Vettel. I think he is, but I'm not sure.
Funny how you only criticizes comments praising Hamilton and never vice versa, "proves" my theory. You call me a "fan boy", but you should know that before I met you and Lauren, Button was my second favorite F1 driver. You're no different from us.



Can you actually show me where I have criticised anything in this thread ?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
No, that's what I'm understanding from Viarini's(spelling?) comment. If you would have read my first post here, you would have seen that I'm not even saying that Hamilton is necessarily faster than Vettel. I think he is, but I'm not sure.
Funny how you only criticizes comments praising Hamilton and never vice versa, "proves" my theory. You call me a "fan boy", but you should know that before I met you and Lauren, Button was my second favorite F1 driver. You're no different from us.



Can you actually show me where I have criticised anything in this thread ?


You only comment negatively on the comments concerning Hamilton even though you're a Button fan and not a Vettel fan, i.e. you have some problems with Hamilton. You claim that these problems originates from us.
Now, when you comment, your only goal is to denounce Hamilton. Not necessarily from this thread (even though I don't have to scroll up high to see you make fun of Hamilton, in a thread where we are supposed to discuss his 1.1 second margin to Vettel), but pretty much all my short time here. From days when Hamilton wins, to the days when he has to retire from the lead due to mechanical failure. How do you think that make us feel about Button? The man who I used to rate as one of the best drivers in F1, and the man who I now try to pick out every single mistake of in order to denounce him and make his fans angry.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Qwertys wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.

Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.

But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.


Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."
come back okay?
One thing you must understand, I'm not sure if this fits in your small mind, but the laps with the Suzuki Liana is the only time where they have driven the same machinery around the same track under similar conditions and Hamilton was more than a second faster. This, as I have stated before, doesn't prove that Hamilton is faster in a Formula car, but when Hamilton and Vettel were youngsters they both raced in Formula 3 Euro series. A series where everybody races in the same machinery. Hamilton won the series in his second season by winning 15(16) out of 20 races, including at least one in every track. Vettel finished second behind Paul di Resta in his second season with "only" 4 race wins to his name. This of course proves nothing (for biased Button and Vettel fans), but I just wanted you to know.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

I'm not sure what to say to this,

I mean, the fact that you have referenced a joke I made, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know.

The fact that you are responding to a post so indignantly in which I even stated "Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana" with more ignorant regurgitation of Wikipedia surfing to further defend Hamilton says even more.

The fact that you are arguing against me as if I need convincing of Hamilton's worth when in the "Rate the Drivers 2012" thread of last year I ranked Hamilton highest.

Here are some facts:

Unless Hamilton and Vettel were to do their laps on the same day in the same car there are too many unknowns to start drawing any meaningful comparisons. The air temperature makes a huge difference on engine performance, the engine is at a different state of wear between Hamilton and Vettel's laps, the grip conditions are different depending on what rubber is on the track which depends on which tyres have been on the cars they have most recently been testing around there and/or if the track has recently been rained on and washed any rubber build up away. It's possible even that parts of the track may have been resurfaced between runs. The Top Gear test track is a great way of getting a ball park figure of comparison with HUGE, HUGE error margins.

Yes, they both drove the same car. That's one constant in a huge array of unknown variables to the point it becomes meaningless. Top Gear is an entertainment show. They time the laps with a hand held stopwatch judging them by eye. There is probably half a second of inaccuracy in that alone.

Their time in Formula 3. Yes. Hamilton smashed the field that year and that field included Vettel. But here's the thing - Vettel was 17 when that season started and Hamilton was 20. That's someone in their final year of High School versus some in their final year of University. A 20 year Karthikeyan should beat a 17 year old Alonso over the course of a season, so obviously Hamilton should smash Vettel.

And while the cars are equal, different teams in Formula 3 are better than each other. Do you think if you gave Red Bull a HRT car and they raced HRT that HRT would beat Red Bull as many times as Red Bull beat them (assuming equal drivers and no car development) - of course not. Red Bull would smash HRT because they are a much better outfit in ways beyond the capability of their vehicle. They run a tighter ship, more knowledgeable staff, are able to extract far more potential out of a car that HRT could.

You can moan and complain all you want, but quite frankly, you're lucky I even bothered to reply to you given your decision to directly insult me in your comments. If I don't choose to reply to whatever ill though out, logic free rambling you choose to string together in response to this, don't think it's because you've outwitted me and I am convinced by your superior argument. It'll be because you managed to slip back below absolute zero in terms of the level of respect I have for your views.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Qwertys wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Qwertys wrote:

So, if I understand this correctly. Hamilton is 1.1 seconds faster than Vettel in same machinery, but Vettel has been able to win by having a better car? Ok, I'll take that.



So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

Exactly. In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.

Unless Hamilton and Vettel went around the track on the same days the same car with their own sets of tyres it's not even coming close to being a test with relatable results.

But even if it was, even if the conditions were the same and that was the best time they could achieve... Well it means nothing with regards to Formula 1, being a F1 driver requires a much bigger skillset than simply wrestling a simple car around a track as fast as you can. Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana but what Hamilton's most vocal supporters don't seem to understand, that is one very, very small quality needed to be a great F1 driver. It's one attribute on a Top Trump card of F1 Driver stats. And even saying Hamilton has the highest score on that attribute by a sizeable margin doesn't make him the best F1 driver because there are other attributes on that list where Vettel is better than him. Being an F1 driver is down to a lot more than raw speed.


Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."
come back okay?
One thing you must understand, I'm not sure if this fits in your small mind, but the laps with the Suzuki Liana is the only time where they have driven the same machinery around the same track under similar conditions and Hamilton was more than a second faster. This, as I have stated before, doesn't prove that Hamilton is faster in a Formula car, but when Hamilton and Vettel were youngsters they both raced in Formula 3 Euro series. A series where everybody races in the same machinery. Hamilton won the series in his second season by winning 15(16) out of 20 races, including at least one in every track. Vettel finished second behind Paul di Resta in his second season with "only" 4 race wins to his name. This of course proves nothing (for biased Button and Vettel fans), but I just wanted you to know.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

I'm not sure what to say to this,

I mean, the fact that you have referenced a joke I made, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know.

The fact that you are responding to a post so indignantly in which I even stated "Hamilton probably would be faster than Vettel with all things equal in the Liana" with more ignorant regurgitation of Wikipedia surfing to further defend Hamilton says even more.

The fact that you are arguing against me as if I need convincing of Hamilton's worth when in the "Rate the Drivers 2012" thread of last year I ranked Hamilton highest.

Here are some facts:

Unless Hamilton and Vettel were to do their laps on the same day in the same car there are too many unknowns to start drawing any meaningful comparisons. The air temperature makes a huge difference on engine performance, the engine is at a different state of wear between Hamilton and Vettel's laps, the grip conditions are different depending on what rubber is on the track which depends on which tyres have been on the cars they have most recently been testing around there and/or if the track has recently been rained on and washed any rubber build up away. It's possible even that parts of the track may have been resurfaced between runs. The Top Gear test track is a great way of getting a ball park figure of comparison with HUGE, HUGE error margins.

Yes, they both drove the same car. That's one constant in a huge array of unknown variables to the point it becomes meaningless. Top Gear is an entertainment show. They time the laps with a hand held stopwatch judging them by eye. There is probably half a second of inaccuracy in that alone.

Their time in Formula 3. Yes. Hamilton smashed the field that year and that field included Vettel. But here's the thing - Vettel was 17 when that season started and Hamilton was 20. That's someone in their final year of High School versus some in their final year of University. A 20 year Karthikeyan should beat a 17 year old Alonso over the course of a season, so obviously Hamilton should smash Vettel.

And while the cars are equal, different teams in Formula 3 are better than each other. Do you think if you gave Red Bull a HRT car and they raced HRT that HRT would beat Red Bull as many times as Red Bull beat them (assuming equal drivers and no car development) - of course not. Red Bull would smash HRT because they are a much better outfit in ways beyond the capability of their vehicle. They run a tighter ship, more knowledgeable staff, are able to extract far more potential out of a car that HRT could.

You can moan and complain all you want, but quite frankly, you're lucky I even bothered to reply to you given your decision to directly insult me in your comments. If I don't choose to reply to whatever ill though out, logic free rambling you choose to string together in response to this, don't think it's because you've outwitted me and I am convinced by your superior argument. It'll be because you managed to slip back below absolute zero in terms of the level of respect I have for your views.


"I mean, the fact that you have referenced a joke I made, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know."

Now I'm convinced you're stupid.

"Aha, okay. When you have any arguments of value, excluding these:
"That's nothing, when they went to the toilet at the pub Vettel finished peeing 10 seconds before Hamilton, but Hamilton is claiming Vettel only had a half."" Read that again, okay? Do you get it? I was plaing a joke, a joke so obvious the only way it could have been more obvious it was a joke is if instead of typing it I had embedded it as a video performed by an army of clowns with a laughter track, as an argument says all anyone needs to know. The excluding these: "The comment" was a way of making fun of you. Now I understand why my joke was justified.

"The fact that you are arguing against me as if I need convincing of Hamilton's worth when in the "Rate the Drivers 2012" thread of last year I ranked Hamilton highest."
We'rent you just trying to convince me that Vettel is better because speed isn't all that matters? Typical hypocrite.

"Unless Hamilton and Vettel were to do their laps on the same day in the same car there are too many unknowns to start drawing any meaningful comparisons. The air temperature makes a huge difference on engine performance, the engine is at a different state of wear between Hamilton and Vettel's laps, the grip conditions are different depending on what rubber is on the track which depends on which tyres have been on the cars they have most recently been testing around there and/or if the track has recently been rained on and washed any rubber build up away. It's possible even that parts of the track may have been resurfaced between runs. The Top Gear test track is a great way of getting a ball park figure of comparison with HUGE, HUGE error margins."

You're definitely right, but 1.1 seconds? But the problem I'm seeing, haven't you read my previous posts in these threads? I never claimed that these laps are a guarantee that Hamilton is faster in a formula car.

"Yes, they both drove the same car. That's one constant in a huge array of unknown variables to the point it becomes meaningless. Top Gear is an entertainment show. They time the laps with a hand held stopwatch judging them by eye. There is probably half a second of inaccuracy in that alone."

Are you sure? Even most go karts are accurate to the nearest thousand of a second.

"Their time in Formula 3. Yes. Hamilton smashed the field that year and that field included Vettel. But here's the thing - Vettel was 17 when that season started and Hamilton was 20. That's someone in their final year of High School versus some in their final year of University. A 20 year Karthikeyan should beat a 17 year old Alonso over the course of a season, so obviously Hamilton should smash Vettel."

That's why I never mentioned that Vettel was in the same season as Hamilton was when Hamilton won 15(16) out of 20 races(And BTW, I've seen every one of them). It was Vettel's first season in the series and therefore it's not a fair comparison.
Also Hamilton is two years older than Vettel and not 3.
A 17 year old Alonso would have smashed a Karthikeyan at his peak. Even though he had only done 1 season or so in a Formula car.

"And while the cars are equal, different teams in Formula 3 are better than each other. Do you think if you gave Red Bull a HRT car and they raced HRT that HRT would beat Red Bull as many times as Red Bull beat them (assuming equal drivers and no car development) - of course not. Red Bull would smash HRT because they are a much better outfit in ways beyond the capability of their vehicle. They run a tighter ship, more knowledgeable staff, are able to extract far more potential out of a car that HRT could."

Vettel and Hamilton were in the same team, perhaps you should have checked that out?

"You can moan and complain all you want, but quite frankly, you're lucky I even bothered to reply to you given your decision to directly insult me in your comments. If I don't choose to reply to whatever ill though out, logic free rambling you choose to string together in response to this, don't think it's because you've outwitted me and I am convinced by your superior argument. It'll be because you managed to slip back below absolute zero in terms of the level of respect I have for your views."

Lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
In the behind the scenes video Hamilton even comments himself how he came on a cool dry day to ensure he had maximum grip and more power from the engine, which they estimate to be worth about 5bhp. Hamilton came to the track to smash Vettel's time, and he made sure he had the best advantage to do it.


When did he claim he chose a particular day for the weather condition? Are you really telling me LEwis ensured the temperatures and everything were just correct before he'd contemplate sitting in the car? Nice spin there. Maybe he was waiting for a dry day, that I can believe. Plus would 5bhp = 1.1 seconds? BTW was Button's time so slow because it was too hot? (I do remember him mentioning it but it sounded tongue in cheek)

You're right, speed isn't everything... but it helps.

Johnston wrote:
So are you saying no changes have been made to the car in the 6months it's been mothballed and the track was an identical condition?

No, he's just responding to the viagriana guy's trollish post.


PS - one or two guys believe Hamilton is the faster driver and the Liana lap times further solidify their beliefs. Then like ten different people come in to fairy cakes on the little parade and try to nullify the lap times, because clearly they're not important enough. This is what is wrong with this place, my numbers may be wrong but time and time again Hamilton fans have to put up with all these digs. 2013 is going to be a tough year....

PPS - **** it I'm taking every little win! Hamilton is the fastest! I already knew this by watching F1 but the top gear lap times just further validate it. 1.1 second with the same car, that lap is up their with the Senna/Monaco McLaren lap. :smug:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Somebody tell me I'm being had here and this is a spoof thread. Please......

You're being had here and this is a spoof thread. Please..... ;)


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