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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:28 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I'll bet you any amount of money you bring a Windows PC of the same specs as my Mac Pro and it will not touch its performance in any regard. Not for 2d, 3-D, Video editing and processing, compressing... NOTHING! In Oder to meet the performance of my $3800 machine, you'd have to spend almost $1500 more because your garden variety machine off the shelf isn't gonna do it. In fact you'd have to call up HP, Dell or whatever brand you prefer and special order it like my buddy did with his machines.

Lol. Its actually the opposite. For a $3800 mac you get a Pc with similar specs for almost half the price.
And the good thing about a PC is that you can buy it with custom parts, depending on what you want to do with it. If you want to edit video, you get a PC with lots of ram and a good graphics card, and a proper i7 processor to handle all that. But if you dont want to do that and you only want to use the PC for browsing websites, you can get an extremely cheap PC that will do the job well and for that price you dont find anything similar in apple.

This alone is evidence enough you don't know as much as you think you know.

Apple also offers less expensive machines in the form of the iMac which are themselves really damn powerful and of superior quality to similarly priced PC's which are the ones you are talking about. The last several generations of iMacs are serious machines and the latest news are so fast and powerful we pulled some of our Mac Pro towers this year and replaced them with 27" iMacs and they are now rendering videos in a tenth the time! The nice thing about them is that they too use top tier components rather than the generic off the shelf components found on similarly priced PC's you are speaking of. A little in-depth research will show you all you need to know. And, if you're a tinkerer and prefer to build your own Mac to serve a specific function, you can certainly do so exactly as you can with a PC. And you can run either system on any Mac natively and you can connect external devices formatted for windows/dos and they mount and function just fine. No additional drivers or add-ons needed. Everything just works.

As I stated previously, you definitely can call up manufacturers to special order higher tier PC's but it seems you aren't aware, or you wouldn't have posted that bit up there. I clearly stated that from the get but somehow you managed to dismiss that fact. There are most definitely quality PC's out there, but in order to get Oranges to Oranges (don't want to sound like I'm promoting Apple exclusively) you will have to bust out your wallet.

For example…
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5 ... 0583290316

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... hgod8nMBQA

This one is made by a former client of mine: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &A=details

They go even higher but you get the picture. ;)


The off the shelf PC you can buy for half the price "IS NOT" (I underlined and bolded that bit there so you don't miss it this time) of the same quality as a Mac Pro because the components "ARE NOT" of the highest grade. The Specs may very well be similar and in many cases better, but the quality of the parts are not the best in order to offer the most bang for the buck to the average joe. How's that for marketing & advertising? This is why you see many top tier Macs in service still producing high-quality work for many years longer than their PC counterparts.

It's just like Hard drives… Anyone can buy a Cagigaflop HD with all the bells and whistles for dirt cheap, but there are higher tier HD's more commonly known as Server Quality Hard Drives. The difference in quality these days is far less than it used to be, but rest assured, the higher grade stuff still costs more. You can go to your local superstore and buy a nice Mountain Bike, seemingly with all the bells and whistles as a Giant Anthem Advanced and at first glance, but just because they offer the same capabilities, it doesn't mean they are one and the same. They aren't.

Trento, interesting point about the Apple watch with all the health monitoring capabilities of the watch!
Don't they already have the capability to monitor their stats? Can't recall at the moment.


Haha, ok, you seem to have taken your time responding....
How on earth did you find these highly overpriced machines? I dont know but you must have tried really hard.

You can mount (by pieces) lots of machines that are better than those with a fraction of a price. Many of these components are the same as the Apple ones... so, basically designed by asian companies, and assembled in china. Except for the processor and the graphics card that are usually designed by american companies.
The hard drivers are basically SSD drives - thats one of the reason why apple USED TO be faster than windows machines, but Apple doesnt design or manufacture any of them... and now many windows machines have it too.

You wont fool me

This is an example of high end PC configuration that clearly outperforms any apple machine of the same price: http://www.pccomponentes.com/pccly/B6F4F400


Guys, Apple computers are basically a custom PC, in an awkward case, and you pay a premium for the design and niceness of it.

Not everyone can be expected to build their own PC, or to be able to troubleshoot, fix it, replace parts, etc. So it has it's market. If I knew nothing about computers, I'd buy an Apple and enjoy the support and service you get. It's a much nicer experience for the layman than a PC can be when you know nothing about it.

But don't tell me its more powerful. It's the same bloody technology! You are basically comparing the software you are running on each computer more than the computers. The whole thing is an advertising war and is widely misinterpreted.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:50 am 
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Alex53 wrote:
Guys, Apple computers are basically a custom PC, in an awkward case, and you pay a premium for the design and niceness of it.

Not everyone can be expected to build their own PC, or to be able to troubleshoot, fix it, replace parts, etc. So it has it's market. If I knew nothing about computers, I'd buy an Apple and enjoy the support and service you get. It's a much nicer experience for the layman than a PC can be when you know nothing about it.

But don't tell me its more powerful. It's the same bloody technology! You are basically comparing the software you are running on each computer more than the computers. The whole thing is an advertising war and is widely misinterpreted.

PC + windows has also support!
I dont know how on earth this misinterpretation has been created that only Apple has SAT and support...
You go to a specialized shop and they can make a configuration for you for any sort of necessity you have. Thats the greatest thing of a PC, you can have a custom machine built for you... And cheaper than any apple machine for the same price.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:09 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
Guys, Apple computers are basically a custom PC, in an awkward case, and you pay a premium for the design and niceness of it.

Not everyone can be expected to build their own PC, or to be able to troubleshoot, fix it, replace parts, etc. So it has it's market. If I knew nothing about computers, I'd buy an Apple and enjoy the support and service you get. It's a much nicer experience for the layman than a PC can be when you know nothing about it.

But don't tell me its more powerful. It's the same bloody technology! You are basically comparing the software you are running on each computer more than the computers. The whole thing is an advertising war and is widely misinterpreted.

PC + windows has also support!
I dont know how on earth this misinterpretation has been created that only Apple has SAT and support...
You go to a specialized shop and they can make a configuration for you for any sort of necessity you have. Thats the greatest thing of a PC, you can have a custom machine built for you... And cheaper than any apple machine for the same price.

I think to be fair Apple support is pretty good and I've yet to see something similar in the PC world. Doesn't mean it's not there, but it's also not guaranteed.

I agree that from a consumer experience it's hard to beat Apple. For someone who just wants something to work efficiently and well (and who has pockets deep enough), it's hard to beat. But you do pay a fairly hefty premium for it. This is where PCs can score better, as for someone who knows what they are doing they can build something specific to their needs and often for less. At the end of the day it's just about choice. Apple are not not better than PCs, but there again PCs aren't better than Apples, either. With Apple you get a fair amount of peace of mind and the user experience is generally very good. But you have to pay for it. With PCs you have the potential to do pretty much whatever you want, but you need more technical knowledge to do so and it's not always guaranteed that everything will work together. And if you do build your own, you're pretty much on your own as far as warranties are concerned. So it depends what works for you.

I don't know why there's this Apple camp and PC camp. They both have their target audiences and both can be very good. It's purely personal preference at the end of the day. One's not "better" than the other; they're just different.

But to keep it on topic, I don't really see that much synergy between Apple and F1. Apple are all about control. The reason Apple computers work so well is that they have been very carefully specced and everything, both hardware and software, has to be Apple approved. There is very limited scope for (legal) customisation. But F1 is the antithesis of that. It's a non-spec series. Every manufacture builds to their own interpretation of the rules. I don't see the synergy with Apple where independence is essentially frowned upon?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:22 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson, I dont know how you can point out Apple's profit like it is a good thing... If anything that only proves that apple's products are overpriced.
Me as a consumer I dont like that the companies make so much profit. This would only be good for apple shareholders, and not us the cosumers.

Also Android is not necessarily cheap, it can be cheap but it can be expensive aswell for the top flagships like the S7, HTC 10 and so on.


You dont understand business much do you? If Apple's products were overpriced, they would *NOT* sell. Instead, they sell by the tens of millions of units, clearly indicating that they could be priced even higher.

You caring about Apple's profit is a waste of time, just like how some misguided people fret about the world's richest people. If Bill Gates suddenly became penniless, are the poor now more well off? Answer: No.

I know business thats why I say that. But we are not talking with a businessmen perspective, but with a consumer perspective.
You know that apple sells less and less smartphones every year? More and more people realise that their products are overpriced.


Absolute nonsense. Apple has had ONE QUARTER with diminishing iPhones sales. You can't even get your facts straight. No wonder you have such erroneous beliefs. If you make up facts, you can believe whatever you want.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:29 am 
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Zoue wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
Guys, Apple computers are basically a custom PC, in an awkward case, and you pay a premium for the design and niceness of it.

Not everyone can be expected to build their own PC, or to be able to troubleshoot, fix it, replace parts, etc. So it has it's market. If I knew nothing about computers, I'd buy an Apple and enjoy the support and service you get. It's a much nicer experience for the layman than a PC can be when you know nothing about it.

But don't tell me its more powerful. It's the same bloody technology! You are basically comparing the software you are running on each computer more than the computers. The whole thing is an advertising war and is widely misinterpreted.

PC + windows has also support!
I dont know how on earth this misinterpretation has been created that only Apple has SAT and support...
You go to a specialized shop and they can make a configuration for you for any sort of necessity you have. Thats the greatest thing of a PC, you can have a custom machine built for you... And cheaper than any apple machine for the same price.

I think to be fair Apple support is pretty good and I've yet to see something similar in the PC world. Doesn't mean it's not there, but it's also not guaranteed.

I agree that from a consumer experience it's hard to beat Apple. For someone who just wants something to work efficiently and well (and who has pockets deep enough), it's hard to beat. But you do pay a fairly hefty premium for it. This is where PCs can score better, as for someone who knows what they are doing they can build something specific to their needs and often for less. At the end of the day it's just about choice. Apple are not not better than PCs, but there again PCs aren't better than Apples, either. With Apple you get a fair amount of peace of mind and the user experience is generally very good. But you have to pay for it. With PCs you have the potential to do pretty much whatever you want, but you need more technical knowledge to do so and it's not always guaranteed that everything will work together. And if you do build your own, you're pretty much on your own as far as warranties are concerned. So it depends what works for you.

I don't know why there's this Apple camp and PC camp. They both have their target audiences and both can be very good. It's purely personal preference at the end of the day. One's not "better" than the other; they're just different.

But to keep it on topic, I don't really see that much synergy between Apple and F1. Apple are all about control. The reason Apple computers work so well is that they have been very carefully specced and everything, both hardware and software, has to be Apple approved. There is very limited scope for (legal) customisation. But F1 is the antithesis of that. It's a non-spec series. Every manufacture builds to their own interpretation of the rules. I don't see the synergy with Apple where independence is essentially frowned upon?


This.

Btw, all the bits of your custom made PC will usually have their warranties, its just that the PC as a whole doesn't. But then again, a person who builds his own PC doesn't see the PC as a thing, he sees his graphics card as a thing, his power supply as a thing, etc...and he replaces that thing when it breaks, and he is able to tell when that is the thing he needs/wants to upgrade/replace. For me, that is a given, but I understand how many people prefer to see the computer as a simplified black box. (I still remember people calling the monitor the computer and the tower the hard disk from my support days). I see my TV, my fridge, and so on like simple black boxes too, you can't be an expert at everything. Heck, apart from changing a tyre, I see my car like that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:56 am 
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Alex53 wrote:
Btw, all the bits of your custom made PC will usually have their warranties, its just that the PC as a whole doesn't. But then again, a person who builds his own PC doesn't see the PC as a thing, he sees his graphics card as a thing, his power supply as a thing, etc...and he replaces that thing when it breaks, and he is able to tell when that is the thing he needs/wants to upgrade/replace. For me, that is a given, but I understand how many people prefer to see the computer as a simplified black box. (I still remember people calling the monitor the computer and the tower the hard disk from my support days). I see my TV, my fridge, and so on like simple black boxes too, you can't be an expert at everything. Heck, apart from changing a tyre, I see my car like that.

I agree all the components have their warranties. I should have been more specific. Getting components to work together is not always straightforward and then it's not uncommon for hardware suppliers to blame the software and vice versa. With Apple if it doesn't work it's immaterial from a consumer point of view where the problem lies: Apple will fix it.

Speaking from recent experience I upgraded my son's PC with a new Gigabyte motherboard. Had 4GB RAM already so bought additional RAM which was guaranteed to work, but it didn't (system crashed after a short while). Changed it for different RAM, also guaranteed to work, but that didn't either. Gigabyte say the MB works as the original 4GB (unfortunately in 2GB sticks) works OK, but can't for the life of me get 8GB to work in there. Never had this problem with RAM before and it's mightily frustrating, but basically it's down to me to fix it.

OTOH my daughter goes through iPhones like they're going out of fashion. Each time necessitates a trip to the Apple store, but each time she walks away with a brand new iPhone. No hair-pulling included!

Now it could be I'm a complete klutz with the mobo, but I've done it before without any issues. The point is that from a consumer perspective the Apple experience is usually better. Doesn't mean their stuff itself is, though :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:30 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson, I dont know how you can point out Apple's profit like it is a good thing... If anything that only proves that apple's products are overpriced.
Me as a consumer I dont like that the companies make so much profit. This would only be good for apple shareholders, and not us the cosumers.

Also Android is not necessarily cheap, it can be cheap but it can be expensive aswell for the top flagships like the S7, HTC 10 and so on.


You dont understand business much do you? If Apple's products were overpriced, they would *NOT* sell. Instead, they sell by the tens of millions of units, clearly indicating that they could be priced even higher.

You caring about Apple's profit is a waste of time, just like how some misguided people fret about the world's richest people. If Bill Gates suddenly became penniless, are the poor now more well off? Answer: No.

I know business thats why I say that. But we are not talking with a businessmen perspective, but with a consumer perspective.
You know that apple sells less and less smartphones every year? More and more people realise that their products are overpriced.


Absolute nonsense. Apple has had ONE QUARTER with diminishing iPhones sales. You can't even get your facts straight. No wonder you have such erroneous beliefs. If you make up facts, you can believe whatever you want.

LOL Seriously. Look out for market share data. Since 2010-2011 android market share has been growing non stop and iphone's has been shrinking non stop. You have plenty of statistics out there, look them up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:42 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson, I dont know how you can point out Apple's profit like it is a good thing... If anything that only proves that apple's products are overpriced.
Me as a consumer I dont like that the companies make so much profit. This would only be good for apple shareholders, and not us the cosumers.

Also Android is not necessarily cheap, it can be cheap but it can be expensive aswell for the top flagships like the S7, HTC 10 and so on.


You dont understand business much do you? If Apple's products were overpriced, they would *NOT* sell. Instead, they sell by the tens of millions of units, clearly indicating that they could be priced even higher.

You caring about Apple's profit is a waste of time, just like how some misguided people fret about the world's richest people. If Bill Gates suddenly became penniless, are the poor now more well off? Answer: No.

I know business thats why I say that. But we are not talking with a businessmen perspective, but with a consumer perspective.
You know that apple sells less and less smartphones every year? More and more people realise that their products are overpriced.


Absolute nonsense. Apple has had ONE QUARTER with diminishing iPhones sales. You can't even get your facts straight. No wonder you have such erroneous beliefs. If you make up facts, you can believe whatever you want.

LOL Seriously. Look out for market share data. Since 2010-2011 android market share has been growing non stop and iphone's has been shrinking non stop. You have plenty of statistics out there, look them up.


You dont even understand what you are talking about. You said, "apple sells less and less smart phones ever year".

That is demonstrably false. Any cursory examination of the facts proves that you are wrong.

Marketshare is not and never has been an Apple goal. PROFITS are their goal. You *do* know that Apple earns 92% of all smart phone profits, right? You know this to be true, right?

Think about that. 92 cents of every single dollar earned by smartphone sales goes to Apple.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/07/apple-makes-92-percent-of-all-smartphone-profits/

Now ask yourself this. Would you rather have 92% market share or would you rather have 92% of total profits?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:55 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:

You dont understand business much do you? If Apple's products were overpriced, they would *NOT* sell. Instead, they sell by the tens of millions of units, clearly indicating that they could be priced even higher.

You caring about Apple's profit is a waste of time, just like how some misguided people fret about the world's richest people. If Bill Gates suddenly became penniless, are the poor now more well off? Answer: No.

I know business thats why I say that. But we are not talking with a businessmen perspective, but with a consumer perspective.
You know that apple sells less and less smartphones every year? More and more people realise that their products are overpriced.


Absolute nonsense. Apple has had ONE QUARTER with diminishing iPhones sales. You can't even get your facts straight. No wonder you have such erroneous beliefs. If you make up facts, you can believe whatever you want.

LOL Seriously. Look out for market share data. Since 2010-2011 android market share has been growing non stop and iphone's has been shrinking non stop. You have plenty of statistics out there, look them up.


You dont even understand what you are talking about. You said, "apple sells less and less smart phones ever year".

That is demonstrably false. Any cursory examination of the facts proves that you are wrong.

Marketshare is not and never has been an Apple goal. PROFITS are their goal. You *do* know that Apple earns 92% of all smart phone profits, right? You know this to be true, right?

Think about that. 92 cents of every single dollar earned by smartphone sales goes to Apple.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/07/apple-makes-92-percent-of-all-smartphone-profits/

Now ask yourself this. Would you rather have 92% market share or would you rather have 92% of total profits?



What has any of this got to do with Formula 1?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:59 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
You dont even understand what you are talking about. You said, "apple sells less and less smart phones ever year".

That is demonstrably false. Any cursory examination of the facts proves that you are wrong.

Marketshare is not and never has been an Apple goal. PROFITS are their goal. You *do* know that Apple earns 92% of all smart phone profits, right? You know this to be true, right?

Think about that. 92 cents of every single dollar earned by smartphone sales goes to Apple.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/07/apple-makes-92-percent-of-all-smartphone-profits/

Now ask yourself this. Would you rather have 92% market share or would you rather have 92% of total profits?


See you are yet again defending their profits. How can you defend them as a business perspective?? Are you an apple executive or shareholder?
This is ridiculous. We are consumers. Apple making enormous profits means their products are vastly overpriced. Therefore me as a consumer dont want to buy a highly overpriced product and instead I want a similar product for half the price.
Again, praising apple (as a consumer) because they make huge profits, is one of the most ridiculous things that I've ever read on the internet. In other words its like saying that you love to buy overpriced products and you love to waste money in an unnecessary way.

Sorry for keeping off topic but this is related to F1 because If apple got into the business we can expect similar politics being applied, therefore if tickets were expensive then it would be even more expensive, and the same for the TV season pass.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:41 pm 
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These days people are buying laptops if they are still buying a computer. In 2008-10 Apple would ask Intel to design custom parts for their laptops. Nowadays Apple laptops not longer seem to have any edge compared to something like this Dell: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/ ... it-better/

The thing about non-apple computers is that you can buy anything. Very cheap laptop, something with better spec or very slick and thin laptop. This is why most of people don't use Apple computers.

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Last edited by dizlexik on Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:45 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
You dont even understand what you are talking about. You said, "apple sells less and less smart phones ever year".

That is demonstrably false. Any cursory examination of the facts proves that you are wrong.

Marketshare is not and never has been an Apple goal. PROFITS are their goal. You *do* know that Apple earns 92% of all smart phone profits, right? You know this to be true, right?

Think about that. 92 cents of every single dollar earned by smartphone sales goes to Apple.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/07/apple-makes-92-percent-of-all-smartphone-profits/

Now ask yourself this. Would you rather have 92% market share or would you rather have 92% of total profits?


See you are yet again defending their profits.


No I am not. I am correcting your brazen inaccuracies. NOTHING you have stated is even true. You cannot have a discussion if you do not understand the basic facts. You are talking about fantasies in your own mind, not facts.

nixxxon wrote:
How can you defend them as a business perspective??


Apple has done nothing wrong, so they dont need my defense.

nixxxon wrote:

Are you an apple executive or shareholder?


Nope.
nixxxon wrote:
This is ridiculous. We are consumers. Apple making enormous profits means their products are vastly overpriced.


Absolute nonsense. The entire goal of EVERY company is to make profits. The more they make, the better they are. You simply have no understanding whatsoever of business. Apple is NOT a monopoly. Customers are NOT forced to buy their products. They do so voluntarily AFTER making a judgement that the price is acceptable.



nixxxon wrote:
Therefore me as a consumer dont want to buy a highly overpriced product and instead I want a similar product for half the price.


Great. The market has options for people like you who do not want to pay Apple's price. Everything works out just fine there. How can you not see how the system is working??
nixxxon wrote:
Again, praising apple (as a consumer) because they make huge profits, is one of the most ridiculous things that I've ever read on the internet. In other words its like saying that you love to buy overpriced products and you love to waste money in an unnecessary way.


I guess you think Ferrari should lower the prices on their cars. Right? After all, such high priced cars are anti-consumer! Too much profit for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:16 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
No I am not. I am correcting your brazen inaccuracies. NOTHING you have stated is even true. You cannot have a discussion if you do not understand the basic facts. You are talking about fantasies in your own mind, not facts.

Apple has done nothing wrong, so they dont need my defense.

Absolute nonsense. The entire goal of EVERY company is to make profits. The more they make, the better they are. You simply have no understanding whatsoever of business. Apple is NOT a monopoly. Customers are NOT forced to buy their products. They do so voluntarily AFTER making a judgement that the price is acceptable.

Great. The market has options for people like you who do not want to pay Apple's price. Everything works out just fine there. How can you not see how the system is working??

I guess you think Ferrari should lower the prices on their cars. Right? After all, such high priced cars are anti-consumer! Too much profit for Ferrari.

Point 1: You try to diminish my points as false or fantasy because you have nothing better to say.
Point 2: Having overpriced products is nothing technically wrong, however that doesnt mean I can't criticise them for it. Of course I can.
Point 3: The more profits they make, the better they are? :lol: :lol: :lol: Yes, again this is from a business point of view. But from a consumer point of view, the more profits they make, the more overpriced their products are, so the more money you have to spend unnecessarily. So yet again you are talking as if you were an apple shareholder or executive. I repeat, I have good understanding of business, I dont know why you keep repeating otherwise. And yet again I say that I'm a consumer not a businessman, therefore I all I want is the best possible products at the best possible price, not the most overpriced products.
Point 5: Yeah, I have other options, so what? Again, does that mean I can't criticise them?
Point 6: You are comparing apples to oranges here, but yes, I think most people know that Ferrari cars have terrible value for money, they cost a fortune to buy and a fortune to run, and they are only affordable for the richest people, so, definitely I would love to see a Ferrari for a fraction the price. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that Ferrari's profits are tiny compared to Apple's.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:38 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
No I am not. I am correcting your brazen inaccuracies. NOTHING you have stated is even true. You cannot have a discussion if you do not understand the basic facts. You are talking about fantasies in your own mind, not facts.

Apple has done nothing wrong, so they dont need my defense.

Absolute nonsense. The entire goal of EVERY company is to make profits. The more they make, the better they are. You simply have no understanding whatsoever of business. Apple is NOT a monopoly. Customers are NOT forced to buy their products. They do so voluntarily AFTER making a judgement that the price is acceptable.

Great. The market has options for people like you who do not want to pay Apple's price. Everything works out just fine there. How can you not see how the system is working??

I guess you think Ferrari should lower the prices on their cars. Right? After all, such high priced cars are anti-consumer! Too much profit for Ferrari.




Point 1: You try to diminish my points as false or fantasy because you have nothing better to say.


No, I diminish your points because they are factually incorrect. You have no points because the data doesnt support them.
nixxxon wrote:
Point 2: Having overpriced products is nothing technically wrong, however that doesnt mean I can't criticise them for it. Of course I can.


No one is saying you cannot critisize Apple or any other company. That is a non sequitur.
nixxxon wrote:
Point 3: The more profits they make, the better they are? :lol: :lol: :lol: Yes, again this is from a business point of view. But from a consumer point of view, the more profits they make, the more overpriced their products are, so the more money you have to spend unnecessarily. So yet again you are talking as if you were an apple shareholder or executive. I repeat, I have good understanding of business, I dont know why you keep repeating otherwise. And yet again I say that I'm a consumer not a businessman, therefore I all I want is the best possible products at the best possible price, not the most overpriced products.


You have no understanding of business whatsoever. None. Zero. Zip. Absolutely NONE. The ONLY determining factor of correct pricing is sales volume and profits (are sales sustainable). You live in a total dream world using any other criteria. EVERY company that is not a monopoly uses this same pricing model. NONE of them use your bizarre, not quantifiable "method".


nixxxon wrote:
Point 5: Yeah, I have other options, so what? Again, does that mean I can't criticise them?


Who says you cant critize? Not me. I am merely correcting your egregious misstatements.

nixxxon wrote:
Point 6: You are comparing apples to oranges here, but yes, I think most people know that Ferrari cars have terrible value for money, they cost a fortune to buy and a fortune to run, and they are only affordable for the richest people, so, definitely I would love to see a Ferrari for a fraction the price. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that Ferrari's profits are tiny compared to Apple's.


I'd Looooooove to see how you determine enough profit is "enough".


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:38 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I'll bet you any amount of money you bring a Windows PC of the same specs as my Mac Pro and it will not touch its performance in any regard. Not for 2d, 3-D, Video editing and processing, compressing... NOTHING! In Oder to meet the performance of my $3800 machine, you'd have to spend almost $1500 more because your garden variety machine off the shelf isn't gonna do it. In fact you'd have to call up HP, Dell or whatever brand you prefer and special order it like my buddy did with his machines.

Lol. Its actually the opposite. For a $3800 mac you get a Pc with similar specs for almost half the price.
And the good thing about a PC is that you can buy it with custom parts, depending on what you want to do with it. If you want to edit video, you get a PC with lots of ram and a good graphics card, and a proper i7 processor to handle all that. But if you dont want to do that and you only want to use the PC for browsing websites, you can get an extremely cheap PC that will do the job well and for that price you dont find anything similar in apple.

This alone is evidence enough you don't know as much as you think you know.

Apple also offers less expensive machines in the form of the iMac which are themselves really damn powerful and of superior quality to similarly priced PC's which are the ones you are talking about. The last several generations of iMacs are serious machines and the latest news are so fast and powerful we pulled some of our Mac Pro towers this year and replaced them with 27" iMacs and they are now rendering videos in a tenth the time! The nice thing about them is that they too use top tier components rather than the generic off the shelf components found on similarly priced PC's you are speaking of. A little in-depth research will show you all you need to know. And, if you're a tinkerer and prefer to build your own Mac to serve a specific function, you can certainly do so exactly as you can with a PC. And you can run either system on any Mac natively and you can connect external devices formatted for windows/dos and they mount and function just fine. No additional drivers or add-ons needed. Everything just works.

As I stated previously, you definitely can call up manufacturers to special order higher tier PC's but it seems you aren't aware, or you wouldn't have posted that bit up there. I clearly stated that from the get but somehow you managed to dismiss that fact. There are most definitely quality PC's out there, but in order to get Oranges to Oranges (don't want to sound like I'm promoting Apple exclusively) you will have to bust out your wallet.

For example…
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5 ... 0583290316

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... hgod8nMBQA

This one is made by a former client of mine: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &A=details

They go even higher but you get the picture. ;)


The off the shelf PC you can buy for half the price "IS NOT" (I underlined and bolded that bit there so you don't miss it this time) of the same quality as a Mac Pro because the components "ARE NOT" of the highest grade. The Specs may very well be similar and in many cases better, but the quality of the parts are not the best in order to offer the most bang for the buck to the average joe. How's that for marketing & advertising? This is why you see many top tier Macs in service still producing high-quality work for many years longer than their PC counterparts.

It's just like Hard drives… Anyone can buy a Cagigaflop HD with all the bells and whistles for dirt cheap, but there are higher tier HD's more commonly known as Server Quality Hard Drives. The difference in quality these days is far less than it used to be, but rest assured, the higher grade stuff still costs more. You can go to your local superstore and buy a nice Mountain Bike, seemingly with all the bells and whistles as a Giant Anthem Advanced and at first glance, but just because they offer the same capabilities, it doesn't mean they are one and the same. They aren't.

Trento, interesting point about the Apple watch with all the health monitoring capabilities of the watch!
Don't they already have the capability to monitor their stats? Can't recall at the moment.


Haha, ok, you seem to have taken your time responding....
How on earth did you find these highly overpriced machines? I dont know but you must have tried really hard.

You can mount (by pieces) lots of machines that are better than those with a fraction of a price. Many of these components are the same as the Apple ones... so, basically designed by asian companies, and assembled in china. Except for the processor and the graphics card that are usually designed by american companies.
The hard drivers are basically SSD drives - thats one of the reason why apple USED TO be faster than windows machines, but Apple doesnt design or manufacture any of them... and now many windows machines have it too.

You wont fool me

This is an example of high end PC configuration that clearly outperforms any apple machine of the same price: http://www.pccomponentes.com/pccly/B6F4F400

Sorry if my reply took a few days but some of us are workaholics and have deadlines to meet, but finding those machines took all of 5 seconds. I didn't go out of my way to find them because quite frankly they are longtime staples in the industry. Sadly the vast majority of "certified" techs don't know everything but are clueless to that fact.

You are one of those people that will not concede a point at any cost, but FYI, as stated in my post, there are machines that are even more expensive. Perhaps you don't know electronics and the components used to create complex machines but there are tiers of quality for all components and each tier you elect to go up, the price increases accordingly. Just the same way you can buy the best quality stainless steel screws for say $0.012 a piece, go with Titanium screws and the unit cost increases significantly to around $1.90 for what appears upon first inspection to be the same thing. I mean it will feature the same thread pitch, have the same type head, and fastened things together, right?… Wrong!!! And to top it off, that Stainless Steel screw will eventually rust and lose it's flawless stainless finish.

Alex53 wrote:
Btw, all the bits of your custom made PC will usually have their warranties, its just that the PC as a whole doesn't. But then again, a person who builds his own PC doesn't see the PC as a thing, he sees his graphics card as a thing, his power supply as a thing, etc...and he replaces that thing when it breaks, and he is able to tell when that is the thing he needs/wants to upgrade/replace. For me, that is a given, but I understand how many people prefer to see the computer as a simplified black box. (I still remember people calling the monitor the computer and the tower the hard disk from my support days). I see my TV, my fridge, and so on like simple black boxes too, you can't be an expert at everything. Heck, apart from changing a tyre, I see my car like that.


Again, you can have all the specs in the world to support your beliefs but you don't just pay for a nice neat package when you buy an Apple computer. You do indeed get as much of the advertised power and speed because of the architecture, which is a whole other element to computer performance. My buddy is a master machinist and is recognized as the best in his industry, but we have another friend who can look at his program runs and change the sequence of passes to shave almost have the machining time on some things because his brain processes things on a whole other level and in his mind things compute differently than most. Same thing with computers.

And while you most certainly build a custom PC for peanuts, you can also elect to buy better components which indeed increase the price. From Motherboards to different brand video cards, processors, power supplies, pretty much every component in a computer has varying degrees of quality, with increased pricing for every tier you elect to go up.

Ironically, I was watching How It's Made with my kids as I worked last night and they featured the new BMW M6 and it's serves as a perfect example of what I am saying. They said that while externally, cosmetically the M6 looks every bit similar to it's non-M counterpart, under the skin it is vastly different. The suspension system is different, the frameworks is different, the Discs for the brakes are different, the engine and complete drivetrain, and pretty much everything under the body is completely different. And while you sit in both and depress a gas pedal to make it go just the same, when you floor the M model it will leave the regular 6 series in the dust.

And just for shiz and giggles… Take the current F1 PU's… All have a similar V6 ICE, All feature an MGU-K, MGK-H, ERS, and a Turbo, Surely they're all the same thing, only Mercedes packages the entire thing more neatly and compactly so people thing they're the fastest. They may all feature the same types systems, but each one has it's own unique architecture and while they all are allowed to Rev to the exact same limits, and the turbines all turn to the same allowable max RPM, so surely they must all perform identically.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:51 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Sorry if my reply took a few days but some of us are workaholics and have deadlines to meet, but finding those machines took all of 5 seconds. I didn't go out of my way to find them because quite frankly they are longtime staples in the industry. Sadly the vast majority of "certified" techs don't know everything but are clueless to that fact.

You are one of those people that will not concede a point at any cost, but FYI, as stated in my post, there are machines that are even more expensive. Perhaps you don't know electronics and the components used to create complex machines but there are tiers of quality for all components and each tier you elect to go up, the price increases accordingly. Just the same way you can buy the best quality stainless steel screws for say $0.012 a piece, go with Titanium screws and the unit cost increases significantly to around $1.90 for what appears upon first inspection to be the same thing. I mean it will feature the same thread pitch, have the same type head, and fastened things together, right?… Wrong!!! And to top it off, that Stainless Steel screw will eventually rust and lose it's flawless stainless finish.

I'll concede points easily in things that I know nothing about, like chemistry, biology, and many other stuff.
Titanium screws necessary? Stainless steel screws rusting? Okay....


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:09 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Sorry if my reply took a few days but some of us are workaholics and have deadlines to meet, but finding those machines took all of 5 seconds. I didn't go out of my way to find them because quite frankly they are longtime staples in the industry. Sadly the vast majority of "certified" techs don't know everything but are clueless to that fact.

You are one of those people that will not concede a point at any cost, but FYI, as stated in my post, there are machines that are even more expensive. Perhaps you don't know electronics and the components used to create complex machines but there are tiers of quality for all components and each tier you elect to go up, the price increases accordingly. Just the same way you can buy the best quality stainless steel screws for say $0.012 a piece, go with Titanium screws and the unit cost increases significantly to around $1.90 for what appears upon first inspection to be the same thing. I mean it will feature the same thread pitch, have the same type head, and fastened things together, right?… Wrong!!! And to top it off, that Stainless Steel screw will eventually rust and lose it's flawless stainless finish.

I'll concede points easily in things that I know nothing about, like chemistry, biology, and many other stuff.
Titanium screws necessary? Stainless steel screws rusting? Okay....


You have a habit of spouting off on topics you know nothing about.

5 seconds on Wikipedia shows: "When stainless steel parts such as nuts and bolts are forced together, the oxide layer can be scraped off, allowing the parts to weld together. When forcibly disassembled, the welded material may be torn and pitted, an effect known as galling."


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:45 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
No, I diminish your points because they are factually incorrect. You have no points because the data doesnt support them.

You have no understanding of business whatsoever. None. Zero. Zip. Absolutely NONE. The ONLY determining factor of correct pricing is sales volume and profits (are sales sustainable). You live in a total dream world using any other criteria. EVERY company that is not a monopoly uses this same pricing model. NONE of them use your bizarre, not quantifiable "method".

I'd Looooooove to see how you determine enough profit is "enough".

I love your original way of analizing their sales and I love how you keep saying that I dont know anything as if you repeated it many times would make it true.
What matters is the market share and its evolution, not the number of sales and its evolution.
If at one point 100 people can buy a product, and 50 people buy yours, and 50 other people buy one from someone else's, and some years later 500 people can buy a product and you still sell 50 and the others sell 450, you think its ok since sales haven't decreased?
Whatever makes you happy I guess...

If you think all companies have the same pricing system is because you are flat out trolling, because you know it isn't true. Do you even know for example, china and the chinese? Do you know that sometimes companies sell products below the cost price?

HS Thompson wrote:
You have a habit of spouting off on topics you know nothing about.

5 seconds on Wikipedia shows: "When stainless steel parts such as nuts and bolts are forced together, the oxide layer can be scraped off, allowing the parts to weld together. When forcibly disassembled, the welded material may be torn and pitted, an effect known as galling."

You missed the corrosive environment part somewhere... PCs are in 99,9% of cases not placed in corrosive environment and are well protected in general so this material is perfectly fine for use. I still keep a 25 years old PC made of stainless steel and theres no rust whatsoever.
Again, just because you wish I didnt know what I was talking about so you can win arguments, that doesnt make it true... no matter how many times you repeat it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:22 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
No, I diminish your points because they are factually incorrect. You have no points because the data doesnt support them.

You have no understanding of business whatsoever. None. Zero. Zip. Absolutely NONE. The ONLY determining factor of correct pricing is sales volume and profits (are sales sustainable). You live in a total dream world using any other criteria. EVERY company that is not a monopoly uses this same pricing model. NONE of them use your bizarre, not quantifiable "method".

I'd Looooooove to see how you determine enough profit is "enough".

I love your original way of analizing their sales and I love how you keep saying that I dont know anything as if you repeated it many times would make it true.


Nothing you have written has given any evidence at all that you understand the first thing about business. Nothing.

nixxxon wrote:
What matters is the market share and its evolution, not the number of sales and its evolution.


This is abject nonsense. Apple proves this beyond any shred of a doubt. Apple has 9% of the smart phone market but 92% of the profits. No sane person would prefer higher market share over this level of profit. NO ONE.


nixxxon wrote:
If at one point 100 people can buy a product, and 50 people buy yours, and 50 other people buy one from someone else's, and some years later 500 people can buy a product and you still sell 50 and the others sell 450, you think its ok since sales haven't decreased?
Whatever makes you happy I guess...


If I am getting 92% of the total market profits, I simply dont care what my sales volume is.
nixxxon wrote:
If you think all companies have the same pricing system is because you are flat out trolling, because you know it isn't true. Do you even know for example, china and the chinese? Do you know that sometimes companies sell products below the cost price?


I've forgotten more about China than you'll ever know. I've lived in China for the past 7 years, and have worked in China, based out of the US the past 15 years.
nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
You have a habit of spouting off on topics you know nothing about.

5 seconds on Wikipedia shows: "When stainless steel parts such as nuts and bolts are forced together, the oxide layer can be scraped off, allowing the parts to weld together. When forcibly disassembled, the welded material may be torn and pitted, an effect known as galling."

You missed the corrosive environment part somewhere... PCs are in 99,9% of cases not placed in corrosive environment and are well protected in general so this material is perfectly fine for use. I still keep a 25 years old PC made of stainless steel and theres no rust whatsoever.
Again, just because you wish I didnt know what I was talking about so you can win arguments, that doesnt make it true... no matter how many times you repeat it.


FYI .....the air you breathe in forms a corrosive environment. So did you store your PC's in a vacuum? My job is designing rust preventatives for metals, INCLUDING stainless steel. Once again, you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Stainless steel can and does rust. Just by being exposed to air. Just one surface imperfection at the tiniest level is all it takes to start the process.

http://products.geappliances.com/appliance/gea-support-search-content?contentId=16654


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:47 pm 
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I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:12 pm 
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SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:20 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

If you're sales don't increase enough or the financial gain from a technical partnership doesn't cover the cost of the sponsorship.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:43 pm 
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minchy wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

If you're sales don't increase enough or the financial gain from a technical partnership doesn't cover the cost of the sponsorship.


I doubt that such a "loss" is tax deductible. Sponsoring a team is a glorified commercial. It's advertisement. You can't just slap a logo on an F1 car and claim a loss. It's not a profit making activity. It would be VERY hard to prove to the IRS, that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:46 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

If you're sales don't increase enough or the financial gain from a technical partnership doesn't cover the cost of the sponsorship.


I doubt that such a "loss" is tax deductible. Sponsoring a team is a glorified commercial. It's advertisement. You can't just slap a logo on an F1 car and claim a loss. It's not a profit making activity. It would be VERY hard to prove to the IRS, that's for sure.

To be fair I don't think that's what's being claimed. Seems to me (s)he's just saying Apple can afford to take a hit because of their enormous profits.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:47 pm 
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Advertising is a legitimate tax deductible expense in UK, do not know about elsewhere, so I supose it depends how they anchor the company. If they do it through a UK based section, they are covered.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:17 pm 
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HS Thompson wrote:
This is abject nonsense. Apple proves this beyond any shred of a doubt. Apple has 9% of the smart phone market but 92% of the profits. No sane person would prefer higher market share over this level of profit. NO ONE.

If I am getting 92% of the total market profits, I simply dont care what my sales volume is.

FYI .....the air you breathe in forms a corrosive environment. So did you store your PC's in a vacuum? My job is designing rust preventatives for metals, INCLUDING stainless steel. Once again, you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Stainless steel can and does rust. Just by being exposed to air. Just one surface imperfection at the tiniest level is all it takes to start the process.

http://products.geappliances.com/appliance/gea-support-search-content?contentId=16654

Making your products reasonably cheap is a success in a long term. Making your products expensive is a failure in the long term.
I'm an IT worker and a smartphone expert (thats why I insist so much) and I can tell you that people n general are very ignorant on this. Many still think that android is the useless and laggy garbage that was several years ago and many still think iphone is by miles the best phone. However more and more people each day realise that buying a budget android for 1/3 the price of the iphone is enough and it does the job perfectly well without issues and with good performance.
Therefore the high prices will in the long term kill the iphone slowly, mark my words, and in fact the market share has been shrinking non stop since some time ago, for that reason.
Apple marketing machinery has a limit. They've done a tremendous marketing job in the past, to the point that so many people thought that those guys were some kind of gods and the rest of the industry was useless... but each time more and more people realise that it was just a big fat lie.

About the other part, you are exaggerating about the stainless steel... But I understand you because you want to sell your products.
Yes I fully admit I'm not an expert in this matter, but I only need to know that I'm surrounded by lots of stainless steel stuff that is so many years old and has not a single bit of rust, so thats all I need to know about it.

I suggest you put a reasonable price on your products otherwise you could have the same faith as apple - lose market share.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:29 pm 
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And I thought the shills on actual tech boards were bad.

Jesus Christ lol.

Gentoo master race btw :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

If you're sales don't increase enough or the financial gain from a technical partnership doesn't cover the cost of the sponsorship.


I doubt that such a "loss" is tax deductible. Sponsoring a team is a glorified commercial. It's advertisement. You can't just slap a logo on an F1 car and claim a loss. It's not a profit making activity. It would be VERY hard to prove to the IRS, that's for sure.

To be fair I don't think that's what's being claimed. Seems to me (s)he's just saying Apple can afford to take a hit because of their enormous profits.


He... i'm a guy and what I meant by my comment was that Apple can throw millions at sponsoring a team and not be bothered if the sponsorship doesn't recoup that money as they're overall profits are in the billions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
And I thought the shills on actual tech boards were bad.

Jesus Christ lol.

Gentoo master race btw :lol:



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:46 am 
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HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

Sponsoring in and of itself is something companies write off just the way they do a charitable donation or a loss. Of course charity and sponsorship vary slightly in how they are declared in the way of the IRS, but sponsorship is a venture investment in wide spread media exposure that hopefully grows brand awareness and gains new customers in the process, while at the same time getting existing customers to be more committed for the future. While it is an investment, it's an investment the sponsor expected to yield no gains when deciding to enter the partnership.

For instance, billboards range from $9k to $15K monthly and companies who lease them do so with the knowledge it will probably be money they won't ever get back. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but chances are that what you invest in more than anything else is growing your brand awareness because selling more product and/or gaining new customers is a hope and not a certainty.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:37 am 
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Zoue wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
I have to admit i'm a little surprised they aren't sponsoring a team already, have Haas sign them up as title sponsors. American team with an American sponsor. Seems like an opportunity too good to miss, Apple can write off any losses against their bloody insane profit numbers.


How is sponsoring an F1 team a loss?

If you're sales don't increase enough or the financial gain from a technical partnership doesn't cover the cost of the sponsorship.


I doubt that such a "loss" is tax deductible. Sponsoring a team is a glorified commercial. It's advertisement. You can't just slap a logo on an F1 car and claim a loss. It's not a profit making activity. It would be VERY hard to prove to the IRS, that's for sure.

To be fair I don't think that's what's being claimed. Seems to me (s)he's just saying Apple can afford to take a hit because of their enormous profits.


Now that is certainly true!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:38 am 
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nixxxon wrote:


I suggest you put a reasonable price on your products otherwise you could have the same faith as apple - lose market share.


You have to be the ONLY person who values market share over profits. The only person.

99 out of 100 people would choose to have 92% of the profits of an ENTIRE industry over 92% of the market share.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:57 am 
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HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:


I suggest you put a reasonable price on your products otherwise you could have the same faith as apple - lose market share.


You have to be the ONLY person who values market share over profits. The only person.

99 out of 100 people would choose to have 92% of the profits of an ENTIRE industry over 92% of the market share.

I repeat, too much profit usually leads to a big failure in the long term.
I know a guy who had a company that almost went bankrupt, because of thie high prices, he wanted to make too much profit. The company almost had to shut down because most of his customers shifted to the competition, because they had better and more reasonable prices. Now they are surviving with a fraction of what they were earning long ago, with 4 employees instead of 12.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:46 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
nixxxon wrote:


I suggest you put a reasonable price on your products otherwise you could have the same faith as apple - lose market share.


You have to be the ONLY person who values market share over profits. The only person.

99 out of 100 people would choose to have 92% of the profits of an ENTIRE industry over 92% of the market share.

I repeat, too much profit usually leads to a big failure in the long term.
I know a guy who had a company that almost went bankrupt, because of thie high prices, he wanted to make too much profit. The company almost had to shut down because most of his customers shifted to the competition, because they had better and more reasonable prices. Now they are surviving with a fraction of what they were earning long ago, with 4 employees instead of 12.


If Apple is going to go bankrupt, it's going to have to stop earning 92% of all the mobile phone industry's profits. Apple is going to have to find a way to drive away all the customers who are willing to pay the price that they charge for phones.

Apple could do this if they decided to price their phones unreasonably. If the iPhone were $3000 each, I suspect then that they would lose money.

But as of now, Apple's iPhone is priced perfectly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:46 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I'll bet you any amount of money you bring a Windows PC of the same specs as my Mac Pro and it will not touch its performance in any regard. Not for 2d, 3-D, Video editing and processing, compressing... NOTHING! In Oder to meet the performance of my $3800 machine, you'd have to spend almost $1500 more because your garden variety machine off the shelf isn't gonna do it. In fact you'd have to call up HP, Dell or whatever brand you prefer and special order it like my buddy did with his machines.

Lol. Its actually the opposite. For a $3800 mac you get a Pc with similar specs for almost half the price.
And the good thing about a PC is that you can buy it with custom parts, depending on what you want to do with it. If you want to edit video, you get a PC with lots of ram and a good graphics card, and a proper i7 processor to handle all that. But if you dont want to do that and you only want to use the PC for browsing websites, you can get an extremely cheap PC that will do the job well and for that price you dont find anything similar in apple.

This alone is evidence enough you don't know as much as you think you know.

Apple also offers less expensive machines in the form of the iMac which are themselves really damn powerful and of superior quality to similarly priced PC's which are the ones you are talking about. The last several generations of iMacs are serious machines and the latest news are so fast and powerful we pulled some of our Mac Pro towers this year and replaced them with 27" iMacs and they are now rendering videos in a tenth the time! The nice thing about them is that they too use top tier components rather than the generic off the shelf components found on similarly priced PC's you are speaking of. A little in-depth research will show you all you need to know. And, if you're a tinkerer and prefer to build your own Mac to serve a specific function, you can certainly do so exactly as you can with a PC. And you can run either system on any Mac natively and you can connect external devices formatted for windows/dos and they mount and function just fine. No additional drivers or add-ons needed. Everything just works.

As I stated previously, you definitely can call up manufacturers to special order higher tier PC's but it seems you aren't aware, or you wouldn't have posted that bit up there. I clearly stated that from the get but somehow you managed to dismiss that fact. There are most definitely quality PC's out there, but in order to get Oranges to Oranges (don't want to sound like I'm promoting Apple exclusively) you will have to bust out your wallet.

For example…
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/5 ... 0583290316

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... hgod8nMBQA

This one is made by a former client of mine: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &A=details

They go even higher but you get the picture. ;)


The off the shelf PC you can buy for half the price "IS NOT" (I underlined and bolded that bit there so you don't miss it this time) of the same quality as a Mac Pro because the components "ARE NOT" of the highest grade. The Specs may very well be similar and in many cases better, but the quality of the parts are not the best in order to offer the most bang for the buck to the average joe. How's that for marketing & advertising? This is why you see many top tier Macs in service still producing high-quality work for many years longer than their PC counterparts.

It's just like Hard drives… Anyone can buy a Cagigaflop HD with all the bells and whistles for dirt cheap, but there are higher tier HD's more commonly known as Server Quality Hard Drives. The difference in quality these days is far less than it used to be, but rest assured, the higher grade stuff still costs more. You can go to your local superstore and buy a nice Mountain Bike, seemingly with all the bells and whistles as a Giant Anthem Advanced and at first glance, but just because they offer the same capabilities, it doesn't mean they are one and the same. They aren't.

Trento, interesting point about the Apple watch with all the health monitoring capabilities of the watch!
Don't they already have the capability to monitor their stats? Can't recall at the moment.


Haha, ok, you seem to have taken your time responding....
How on earth did you find these highly overpriced machines? I dont know but you must have tried really hard.

You can mount (by pieces) lots of machines that are better than those with a fraction of a price. Many of these components are the same as the Apple ones... so, basically designed by asian companies, and assembled in china. Except for the processor and the graphics card that are usually designed by american companies.
The hard drivers are basically SSD drives - thats one of the reason why apple USED TO be faster than windows machines, but Apple doesnt design or manufacture any of them... and now many windows machines have it too.

You wont fool me

This is an example of high end PC configuration that clearly outperforms any apple machine of the same price: http://www.pccomponentes.com/pccly/B6F4F400

Sorry if my reply took a few days but some of us are workaholics and have deadlines to meet, but finding those machines took all of 5 seconds. I didn't go out of my way to find them because quite frankly they are longtime staples in the industry. Sadly the vast majority of "certified" techs don't know everything but are clueless to that fact.

You are one of those people that will not concede a point at any cost, but FYI, as stated in my post, there are machines that are even more expensive. Perhaps you don't know electronics and the components used to create complex machines but there are tiers of quality for all components and each tier you elect to go up, the price increases accordingly. Just the same way you can buy the best quality stainless steel screws for say $0.012 a piece, go with Titanium screws and the unit cost increases significantly to around $1.90 for what appears upon first inspection to be the same thing. I mean it will feature the same thread pitch, have the same type head, and fastened things together, right?… Wrong!!! And to top it off, that Stainless Steel screw will eventually rust and lose it's flawless stainless finish.

Alex53 wrote:
Btw, all the bits of your custom made PC will usually have their warranties, its just that the PC as a whole doesn't. But then again, a person who builds his own PC doesn't see the PC as a thing, he sees his graphics card as a thing, his power supply as a thing, etc...and he replaces that thing when it breaks, and he is able to tell when that is the thing he needs/wants to upgrade/replace. For me, that is a given, but I understand how many people prefer to see the computer as a simplified black box. (I still remember people calling the monitor the computer and the tower the hard disk from my support days). I see my TV, my fridge, and so on like simple black boxes too, you can't be an expert at everything. Heck, apart from changing a tyre, I see my car like that.


Again, you can have all the specs in the world to support your beliefs but you don't just pay for a nice neat package when you buy an Apple computer. You do indeed get as much of the advertised power and speed because of the architecture, which is a whole other element to computer performance. My buddy is a master machinist and is recognized as the best in his industry, but we have another friend who can look at his program runs and change the sequence of passes to shave almost have the machining time on some things because his brain processes things on a whole other level and in his mind things compute differently than most. Same thing with computers.

And while you most certainly build a custom PC for peanuts, you can also elect to buy better components which indeed increase the price. From Motherboards to different brand video cards, processors, power supplies, pretty much every component in a computer has varying degrees of quality, with increased pricing for every tier you elect to go up.

Ironically, I was watching How It's Made with my kids as I worked last night and they featured the new BMW M6 and it's serves as a perfect example of what I am saying. They said that while externally, cosmetically the M6 looks every bit similar to it's non-M counterpart, under the skin it is vastly different. The suspension system is different, the frameworks is different, the Discs for the brakes are different, the engine and complete drivetrain, and pretty much everything under the body is completely different. And while you sit in both and depress a gas pedal to make it go just the same, when you floor the M model it will leave the regular 6 series in the dust.

And just for shiz and giggles… Take the current F1 PU's… All have a similar V6 ICE, All feature an MGU-K, MGK-H, ERS, and a Turbo, Surely they're all the same thing, only Mercedes packages the entire thing more neatly and compactly so people thing they're the fastest. They may all feature the same types systems, but each one has it's own unique architecture and while they all are allowed to Rev to the exact same limits, and the turbines all turn to the same allowable max RPM, so surely they must all perform identically.


Only it is the same architecture. You are basically comparing the software.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Are you trolling here?

No… it isn't. The architecture from PC to PC isn't even the same. SMH
You obviously have no idea on the subject matter.

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THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:45 pm 
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A page and a half ago I said keep it on topic. Since nobody seems able to do that, thread locked.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:13 am 
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Ok, have at it. But no more allegations of trolling, and no more racism.

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AlienTurnedHuman wrote:
Eurytus probably thought he was God. At least until he was banned. Which means if he was God, it makes me very scared of PF1-Mod.

Yes, we have a swear filter now. No, it doesn't change coffin to 'place of rest'.


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