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De Grasse was insane in the 4x100. He took Canada from like 7th to 4th in the last leg, and almost caught the Japanese runner in 2nd!

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"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti

Indeed.

Also, hats off to Mr Usain Bolt! Great to see him bagging that “triple treble”. An incredible achievement and a fitting end to a magnificent Olympic career. The guy is an absolute legend and an all-time Olympic/sporting great. He’ll be missed...

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You just need to be accepted for who you are and be proud of who you are and that is what I'm trying to do.
Lewis Hamilton

Now that the games have just about concluded, I just want to briefly revisit my point from before about how you cannot compare Olympic athletes from different sports simply by counting medals.

There are many Olympians who win a medal and quite a few who win two medals but a three medal haul is pretty special right? How about four medals!? That's an amazing haul, wouldn't you say!? Well during the 2016 Olympics there were a total of 9 athletes to earn at least 4 medals. Guess how many were swimmers...8! That's right, 8 of the 9 athletes to win a total of 4 medals or more were swimmers! There is very obviously a heightened opportunity to win medals in that sport. This doesn't take anything away from those athletes or their achievements. What it does do, however, is make it so that you CANNOT compare them to other athletes in other sports as though it's an apples to apples comparison.

Maybe that's just at the extreme high end of winning 4 medals you're probably thinking, right? Wrong. There are more swimmers who have won three medals than there are athletes in all other sports with three medals combined.

What about just gold medals? Well there are a total of 3 athletes who won at least 4 gold medals and 2 of the 3 are swimmers. What about those who won 3 gold medals? There were 8 athletes to win at least 3 gold medals and 4 of the 8 were swimmers. Can you name all 4? Let's name the non-swimmers first, shall we. Usain Bolt (track and field), Simone Biles (gymnastics), Jason Kenny (cycling), Danuta Kozak (canoe). No other sport had more than one athlete and the athletes who did win at least 3 gold medals in the other sports are widely considered to be the greatest EVER in their sport!

I'll close by reiterating the fact that I in no way think that we should take anything away from the performances of Olympic swimmers. We just have to compare them to each other and not to people in other sports; where you obviously cannot win as many medals.

You can't compare them, yet you have, repeatedly in this thread. Another attack on the swimmers medals no matter how much you claim it isn't, sandman. You couldn't let it go could you? You had to "revisit" it... had to tell us one more time how YOU think medals in Swimming are lesser than others.

Yah, I rose to the bait, even though I had dropped the debate days ago... so in that respect, it worked. Congrats.

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Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

I followed your debate the other day and I found myself agreeing with you both at times. There are an awful lot of swimming medals and you can't really argue with some of the stats about multi medals predominantly being won by swimmers which on the face of it may hint at it being easier to achieve in the pool.

But at the same time if it was that easy to do, compete at different strokes and distances, then why haven't some truly great swimmers been able to do it, a lot don't even bother trying and i'm sure it's not down to laziness!. Also is there really more difficulty or nuances competing in the 100/200m on the track,the sprint/keiran in Cycling or different Gymnastic disciplines than if you were able to do the 100/200 fly and freestyle?.

I think the relays help fatten out a swimmers collection a little too much but apart from that I'm not sure there's much difference. It's interesting though and I keep changing my mind so I quite enjoyed your debate.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Yeah absolutely. They were talking a bit on Sky Sports about how Athletics will deal with losing Bolt and Farah as well for that matter.

They were saying Bolt has practically carried the Sport for the last decade and there ism't really anybody to pass the baton on too. Hopefully someone emerges at the Worlds in London next year but it could be a tricky time for Athletics when they go.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Actually no I have not. With all due respect, I'm not sure what you're reading here. I did not say that medals in swimming are "lesser" than in other sports. You seem to be incapable of simply looking only at what I'm actually saying and are filling in thoughts and sentiments that I am not expressing at all. It's very strange...

With regards to Bolt, there truly will be a vacuum left in his wake. He not only brought an unprecedented level of ability to the table but he also brought the showmanship and personality to get people involved in the sport. That's not something you can teach. Either you have that or you don't.

Mo Farah has certainly written his name in the books next to Kenenisa Bekele and Haile Gebrselassie as one of the greatest distance runners of all time. The fact that he's a Brit has been a boon for the sport economically. I think he'll be 37 in 2020 so it's unlikely that he will still be in peak form, however I haven't heard him talk about retirement...

I think Athletics really needs to reinvent itself in a lot of ways. The sport needs to be repackaged IMO and made more digestible as an entertainment package. One key thing that would help would be to trim the fat from professional meets. I can think of ways to package the races into a really entertaining package but when you try to shoe-horn in all the throwing and jumping events (many of which have almost zero following), you end up with a bloated overall package with diluted entertainment value.

All very true

I think Mo's been hinting he'll retire from the track after the Worlds in London next year and give the Marathon a go so maybe he'll still be in Tokyo, who knows.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I personally love watching the other sports during the meets. It's nice to see something different mixed in with all that running.

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"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti

sandman, I am going to agree with Snake... I too like the other events, you know the ones you appear to be suggesting as the "fat" that needs to be trimmed. I enjoyed watching the hurdles, both individual and relays, I enjoyed the Pole Vault, the Long Jump, the High Jump... I didn't get to see the Discus or Shot Put as it wasn't on while I was able to watch, but I would have enjoyed them as well.... please don't confuse what you don't care to watch as having "almost zero following".

Hell, if you want to "trim the fat" lets just get rid of the sprints, and all the others, make the Decathlon the Athletics competition and you have it. Multiple disciplines, covering a wide range of skills, and we won't be "bothered" by individual events like long jump, Pole vault, Discus, Shot put, the short sprints, etc. Now that would be trimming the "fat" and in the end, we have the best all around Athlete in the sport get recognized for their athleticism.

You agree to that and I will agree to having just the IM in swimming (modified so it would be like the Decatlhon, individual events adding up to a winning total). So in the end, we have Michael Phelps and Ashton Eaton declared the Men's best in their sports and we can dispense with Bolt, Lochte, and the others... Short and to the point and over with... and then we can see about trimming the "fat" in gymnastics too.... Just the All-Around competition, nothing else. The we could go on to bikes and set up the same thing... Kayaks as well. And Equestrian events. I am sure we could trim the fat in Archery, Fencing and Shooting as well.

With a little work at it, we could get the Summer Olympics down to just a few days and let people go home and get to work.

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Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

There is not a single athletic stadium event that I will not watch. Love it all.

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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That was a little extreme even for you Blake...

So, what I mean is that not every event is particularly digestible as a televised sport. I'm not talking about the Olympics mind you. I'm talking basically about the Diamond League. When you consider the major sports that people watch on TV (football, basketball, etc.) they are packaged in a way that is made for TV. Track meets are too busy and the focus is split between different, often unrelated events that may even overlap with eachother in terms of timing (It's not uncommon to see a throwing competition going on in the middle of a race).

As a sort of business proposition, I would repackage the sport and focus on the races (including hurdles). I would time everything so that you go from one race to another with just a few minutes in between. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate watching the throwing events some times as well as the jumping but 95% of my interest in the sport is based around the races and that's pretty much the way it is for the vast majority of viewers. The broadcast could be streamlines and there could be a lot more action with the appropriate focus on said action. Also it could be the ideal sport for gambling. This sport just needs to be packaged and marketed better. It can produce stars, exciting moments, pretty much everything you need to have a lucrative professional sport.

I am intelligent enough to watch a huge athletics event, either on TV or at the venue, London 2012 and London 2012 Paralympics being two events I've attended, and can keep track of all events. This is complicated even more in the Para games because of the large variety of classifications that go on.

The fact that 95% (a figure you probably plucked out of the air rather than calculated) of the events don't especially interest you, does not mean the other events should be culled.

You would also find that the changes from race to race, putting out blocks, warming up outside the stadium, putting hurdles out and back etc, would mean boring sections without any action going on for the paying public and the TV audience.

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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Not sure where the aggression is coming from. It's an idea, not something I'm proposing as a gospel fact. I think the sport has never become lucrative for its athletes (except for a small handful of runners) and the reason why it hasn't is that it has not been packaged and marketed properly. It you disagree with me, that's totally okay but I didn't post this to start an argument. Personally, I do enjoy the other events but even if you kept them; I don't think that having them run the way they do (overlapping with races) is the best way to present your sport. The broadcasts always have elements of tape delay like golf and I just think it should be presented almost like Motocross or horse racing.

Aggression. Jeez!

How do you propose they show the field events where there is often a decent gap between each competitor because there simply has to be, plus a single field event can take a couple of hours to complete?

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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That's why I wouldn't include them if I had my choice. Imagine if you tuned in to watch a football match and saw people playing handball in the background. It's distracting to the eye. I know athletic meets have been like this forever but the sport could stand to rethink its presentation on the professional side of things.

I find pretty much all athletics pretty boring. Actually, I watched almost none of the Olympics. Even including youtube, I'm not sure I actually saw anything beyond divers belly-flopping, cyclists crashing etc except the archery. There are always people who like one thing. I doubt if I asked 100 people on the train tomorrow morning I'd get barely any who list archery as their must-see Olympic sports. But I'm glad it's there. I'm generally quite pro-mish-mash of sports so we can see a bit of everything. Maybe I'm easily pleased, but seeing a 5 foot tiny wee women do 5 flips in the air is not something I really care to follow but as a novelty that's pretty whack. It's worth seeing for the sheer - human bodies can do that?! moment. Seeing a dude lift 3 times his weight can be entertaining. I don't mean to disparage anyone's favourites etc, but the Olympics for me is about the novelty of sports I don't generally watch as much as almost anything else. So I'm all for a bit of variety. Could it be packaged differently? Sure.

I did mean to watch the BMX stuff but forgot.

If you can watch a rerun, do. I watched two races, which were the men's semi finals (I think), and it was brutal. One guy hit a jump, and his front forks snapped on landing. In the other, the Brazilian guy faceplanted trying to trail brake through the last corner.

Distracted! Honestly, I have never read such rubbish. You appear to be suggesting that athletics is aimed at the lowest common denominator of human being.
Have you been to an actual athletics event?

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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Have I ever been to an event? Yeah I used to compete in them for years when I was younger and I have been to several meets as a spectator. How bout you?

You don't seem to understand what I'm talking about. When you watch athletes in athletics, you're not watching millionaires. This sport doesn't pay much for the vast majority of competitors. There's a relatively small number who don't need to have a job outside of athletics and in terms of people who get paid like footballers or NBA players; the list begins and ends with Bolt.

There's no empirical reason why that should be the case. Racing has an inherent watchability to it. It's just not being packaged correctly IMO and that's why it's not currently a big money maker. Most athletes don't even attend most of the Diamond League meets. The money is simply not good enough to make it worth their while. The very best athletes rely on endorsements to earn their money but most of them will never get a big endorsement deal. The sport has just been left behind and it's failed to reinvent itself to stay relevant. If not for Bolt, the sport would be even less mainstream as far as media coverage goes and his career is coming to an end.

Everything seems to "begin and end with Bolt" for you, Sandman. He has been the crux of almost your entire posting history in this thread. First it was that anyone would dare to suggest a swimmer might be the best Olympian in history... and now that the other Athlete events are distractions for what you really want to see ... and then the "begins and ends with Bolt", the "vacuum" that Bolt will leave in his wake, and the "unprecedented level of ability" Bolt brought to sport. You certainliy do "wax poetic" in your praise.

You appear to have a man-crush on Bolt is getting a bit funny. Sandman, other sports also have an "inherent watchability"... maybe not to you, but to many of us, that should be obvious by now. Be it swimming, Gymnastics, other track events (distractions in your terms), biking, triathlons, sailing, kayaks or others... they have fans, be them casual or avid/rabid. To you the 100/200 running events are seemingly the epitome of Olympic sports... to me they are FAR down the of events I long to see every four years. Why is it so difficult for you to see that in others? Why so difficult to understand that not everybody such an avid fan of the sprints and of Bolt.

Personally, one of the things that I love about the Olympics are those other sports.. the one we can't see every week on the Tele. I didn't watch a single USA basketball game, nor Tennis, nor Golf.(too much money in those sports)..but tried to watch those sports where there is not a multi-million dollars a year league or series waiting for the competitors. Let me have the sports that we only get to enjoy every four years, be it the Summer Olympics or the Winter Olympics.

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Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

As I think I've already said, I have been to the Olympics and managed to watch various sessions, keeping up with all events going on simultaneously, and along with the tens of thousands of other people in the stadium, and the millions watching on TV, thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. Not one did I think the sport needed updating in any way.

But I guess I am wrong and in the minority!

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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I'm not sure you are.

I love watching the athletics - and I love the fact that the coverage switches and changes depending on what is happening at the time. I'd have loved to have gone to the Olympics (I tried to get tickets!).

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Group Pick 'Em 2016 Champion

You're full of it Blake and at this point I think even you must realize that. I went back and looked at my posts in this thread and found that I've made over 20 posts and only 4 of them even mention Bolt. My point about swimmers was not related to Bolt or even track and field in general. It was about ALL sports other than swimming. You've just had your feelings hurt because someone has pointed out the undeniable fact that swimming presents its athletes with a disproportionate opportunity to win medals by comparison to all of the other sports. Because your feelings were hurt you now want to make an asinine argument against me (presumably) by putting words in my mouth that I never said and by describing behavior that I never exhibited.

You've also completely misrepresented the idea that I had. You've completely missed the actual point I was making about professional track and field (I guess that's a less fun point to argue against than the one you've attempted to attribute to me). Track and field is not a lucrative professional sport and I was floating an idea for how it might become one. I specifically said this would NOT change the Olympics (which is amateur sport). I also never said it would be just sprints. There are sprints, middle distance races and long distance races and those are the events that I would feature. Again, this is a hypothetical idea of how to package PROFESSIONAL track and field. Basically your entire post is arguing against things that I did not say or do. So go ahead and keep talking to yourself but leave my name out of it please.

Sadly Etimoni Timuani never made it out of the preliminary heats, but I'm sure he's still a hero back in Tuvalu - GO ETIMONI !!




Hope the 2016 Paralympics is as good as the last one. In many ways I enjoyed it more than the regular Olympics.

I was so happy when BMX was added to the Olympics. I always liked it. Now that skateboarding will be an Olympic sport in 2020, I'm expecting BMX Park or Vert events to follow suit.

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"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti

Australia didn't have the best games however there were some higlights

Kyle Chalmers gold in the swimming (he's a fellow Adelaideian )
Mat Horton - swimming gold
Chloie Esposito - Decathlon
Jarred Tallent - Athletics
Sailing team doing well

as for favourite sports - Cycling (Road cycling is probably the only sport I follow year round) Archery, Sailing and Equestrian events as its the only event/pastime/sport/whatever that you can have women and men compete on the same level with the same resources! You don't get that anywhere else anywhere in the world!

Anyone watching the Paralympics? I’m really enjoying the action in the Velodrome. Team GB off to a flying start with Storey , Giglia, Bate & Duggleby all winning golds. Amazing performances.

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You just need to be accepted for who you are and be proud of who you are and that is what I'm trying to do.
Lewis Hamilton

I haven't been watching. Wheelchair Rugby isn't on for another few days iirc. Wheelchair Rugby is freaking brutal. I love it.

Jack Whitehall, Ellie Simmonds and Susie Rodgers did an advert I saw on youtube that I thought was pretty funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1Sbjy4X8g

Not watching as much as the 2012 games, but that's because everything is on so late.

Watching as much as possible. Love it all, except for bits on horses!

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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
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