planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:36 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules





Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Nebraska, USA
Along with the others, lets recognize the performance of the gymnast, Simone Biles, thus far.

I would say that Simone Biles is making a strong case for being the Athlete of the 2016 Summer Olympics. She still has two individual events to go, but has been totally dominate in her first three competitions. She has to be the favorite for the Balance Beam as well as the Floor Exercise.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4737
I'll nominate Jason Kenny, 2 golds already in the Cycling and a chance of a 3rd later in the week. He completely flies under the radar in GB even though he had already 3 Olympic Golds before Rio.

He now sits 3rd on Britain's all time list only behind Wiggins and Hoy on 5 Golds and a Silver.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Blake wrote:
Whatever, sandman...

when I am like this? pray tell, what is your expertise, I have asked you before and though you put me down repeatedly, you fail to tell us how it is that you are such an expert.

Yes, I did forget that Bolt had competed in the 200, and more power to him for having done so. My bad. However, it only moderately changes my point.. It is great that he as been able to do 3 different distances, and it is great that a Ledecky has competed in 4 different distances of freestyle (100, 200, 400, 800... and btw, she is the world record holder in the 1500) ... which, is the only stroke she competes in... by choice. It was a shock to many that she was so competitive in the 200 and the 100 in the relay), but she chose to try and she succeeded. That does not make it easy, it means that she put the work into all of the disciplines to succeed... by choice. BTW, Phelps winning the 200IM this year is his FOURTH straight Gold in that event, (a totally unprecedente feat). He did miss out on winning a fourth straight 100 Butterfly however, finishing in a tie for 2nd.

You indeed did say that the
Quote:
"bottom line is that swimming has the lowest bar for earning a medal of all of the olympic sports"
. How is that shows the "utmost respect for the sport? Seriouisly??? That shows Little respect, sandman, no matter how you try to spin it.

And yes, Bolt fans have pitted his accomplishments against Phelps, and you damn well know it. You can try to spin all of this as my being irrational and emotional, and I admit that I get a bit "pi$$ed" when swimmers are shown so little respect and when their accomplishments are basically dismissed as "the lowest bar for earning a medal". And yes, I might get "emotional" when you repeatedly suggest that I lack "reality"... as for irrational, you just think what you wish... it is far easier than answering my questions to you.

Your questions are going in a pointless direction. When did I say I was an expert on anything? I'm not an expert and obviously neither are you. I did, however, compete in track and field in both high school and for a while in college and I have followed both sports closely since I was a kid and learned quite a lot about them. The only reason you want to know my background is in hopes that it will enable you to make an ad-hominem attack (which would be totally invalid anyway by definition).

I don't disagree with any of what you said about Phelps or Ledecky. I agree that Phelps is the greatest swimmer of all time (have said so multiple times) and that he has achieved unprecedented things in his sport. Ledecky is younger but is also an unprecedented talent in a lot of ways (though Missy Franklin was just as successful in 2012). You seem to want to ascribe some sentiment to me that I simply don't possess. It's strange really, when the only point I'm making is that you cannot do an apples to apples comparison of medal counts between two different sports.

When I said the bar was lower for winning a medal in swimming, I meant that it is easier to come away with medals in swimming (particularly if you are on the US team) than it is in other sports. To provide an example; there are certainly a lot of athletes who win medals in the Olympic games but considerably fewer who win multiple medals. Right now there are 42 swimmers who have won multiple Olympic medals! 42!!! That's more than all of the other sports combined!

Again, that's part of the sport and I don't begrudge those athletes their achievements. They put in long hours of hard work to get to where they are and they must beat other highly talented and well trained athletes to win those medals. My only problem is with the way you are misrepresenting track and field here for some reason :? . Your notion that the reason no one has won the 200, 400, 800 and 1500 in track is because no one has "chosen" to do so, it just plain wrong to be blunt. There is no "choice" in that; it's not possible to do it. Yes the distances are the same but swimming and running are radically different in that running is far more specialized at each distance than swimming and it takes longer to recover (particularly from distances above 400 meters) because of the impact and the insane build up of lactic acid in the muscles.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Blake wrote:
Along with the others, lets recognize the performance of the gymnast, Simone Biles, thus far.

I would say that Simone Biles is making a strong case for being the Athlete of the 2016 Summer Olympics. She still has two individual events to go, but has been totally dominate in her first three competitions. She has to be the favorite for the Balance Beam as well as the Floor Exercise.

Seconded; Biles is considered by experts to be the best gymnast ever. She has certainly made our team invincible this year and if she can pull off all 5, it would be the best Olympics by a female gymnast ever!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6274
I'd mention the Hungarian Iron lady, Katinka Hosszú, 3 golds and a silver in swimming. Similar to Ledecky I suppose, but only in individual events.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Nebraska, USA
sandman1347 wrote:
Your questions are going in a pointless direction. When did I say I was an expert on anything? I'm not an expert and obviously neither are you. I did, however, compete in track and field in both high school and for a while in college and I have followed both sports closely since I was a kid and learned quite a lot about them. The only reason you want to know my background is in hopes that it will enable you to make an ad-hominem attack (which would be totally invalid anyway by definition).

No, sandman, the reason I wanted to know what your qualifications are is that you had repeatedly made said that I did not grasp the "reality" of track and you repeatedly told me how wrong I have been in my posts. The "attacks" as you suggest I wish to do to you, have been made by you in several posts. I told you in an earlier post that I had been a swim coach for over a decade and that I had kids active in track for nearly a decade between them. You offered no such "qualification", only told me how much I didn't know.

Again, that's part of the sport and I don't begrudge those athletes their achievements. They put in long hours of hard work to get to where they are and they must beat other highly talented and well trained athletes to win those medals. My only problem is with the way you are misrepresenting track and field here for some reason :? . Your notion that the reason no one has won the 200, 400, 800 and 1500 in track is because no one has "chosen" to do so, it just plain wrong to be blunt. There is no "choice" in that; it's not possible to do it. Yes the distances are the same but swimming and running are radically different in that running is far more specialized at each distance than swimming and it takes longer to recover (particularly from distances above 400 meters) because of the impact and the insane build up of lactic acid in the muscles.

Again, sandman... just how do you know that it takes longer to recover from track events than it does swimming? Do you not think that they have a build up of lactic acid in swimming as well? That kind of stuff is the issue I have had with you, as you repeatedly suggest that it is more difficult to do things in track, when you don't really know what is involved in swimming. You say that I am "misrepresenting track and field", yet you generalize about swimming and even claim that it has "swimming has the lowest bar for earning a medal of all of the olympic sports". BTW, when it comes to misrepresenting, I believe that I also suggested non running events were possible for a track athelete, such as some running events and perhaps the long jump, triple jump or hurdles.... it wouldn't have to be the 1500. Perhaps some day again, a track athlete will come along who chooses to try it, and perhaps even excel in them. It is not impossible.

and on that note, I will let it go. You have your bias for track and field having competed in it in high school, and I have a bias toward swimming, having coached it for many years... and I have no doubt that our biases have shown through. I don't deny that Bolt is a a great Olympian, my point has been that I value accomplishments over multiple disicplines, be they swimming disciplines, or... as in Jesse Owens... multiple track disciplines,.... or as we are seeing the Simone Biles in gymnastics this year. Just a difference in perception perhaps

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Please do me a favor and use the internet. Everything I've said can easily be backed up by multiple resources. I DO understand swimming. I understand it quite well and there's nothing I've said that is inaccurate. I was pointing out the differences in recovery time. At no point did I say that there is no recovery time required in swimming. Merely that there is LESS recovery time required and that's largely because the sport takes place in the water where there is no impact to the joints like there is when you run.

But yes, let's let it go.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Nebraska, USA
Never mind. Its not worth it.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Last edited by Blake on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
Dear Blake/sandman,

Please can we all agree that Phelps is an amazing swimmer, and Bolt is an amazing sprinter. They are different disciplines and cannot subjectively be compared as to who is the 'greatest Olympian'.

There's no point comparing apples and pears. They have both set records and achieved more than anybody else in their respective disciplines. And I'd put money on the fact that neither can do what the other.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Last edited by minchy on Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Nebraska, USA
Neither of us have said Bolt & Phelps aren't great, Minchy. It has been more of a "philosophical " disagreement about the respective disciplines.
:)

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Minchy what you've said is actually the exact point that I've been making.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 4191
I don't even think Phelps is the best Schwimmer.

Spoiler (click to show)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
Just putting it out there..... Dressage is not a sport!

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 1836
minchy wrote:
Just putting it out there..... Dressage is not a sport!


It's the same as diving, gymnastics and synchronised swimming. Sports that mark you for execution, not achievement. It's highly highly technical. Bit boring though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
huggybear wrote:
minchy wrote:
Just putting it out there..... Dressage is not a sport!


It's the same as diving, gymnastics and synchronised swimming. Sports that mark you for execution, not achievement. It's highly highly technical. Bit boring though.

It's not the marking that I don't get, it's the horse!

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: Los Angeles, California
mac_d wrote:
I don't even think Phelps is the best Schwimmer.

Spoiler (click to show)


Yes, it is annoying, but not as annoying as this!

_________________
"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm
Posts: 4191
Well played Snake. Glad to know my tiny text wasn't for nowt.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36689476

Bit of controversy in the female marathon swim. I have to admit, I had to watch the video again after reading the article in order to see the infraction. I know it's basically cheating, but in the heat of the moment I can understand it.


The dressage thing that gets me is the fact a horse is involved. In pretty much any other event everyone has access to identical conditions don't they? I could wear the same type of shoes as Bolt or the same speedo as Phelps. I can't have a horse be the same. Alternatively, the horse should get a gold medal and name on the headlines too. Either it's equipment and should be standard or it's a team-mate to some degree. The concept is pretty weird.

That said, I do kind of like the dressage. Horses are cool. Not a fan of show jumping or racing though (will watch the Grand National if I put a few quid on though).

I find the air gun shooting to be an odd one. Archery I'm totally fine with and adore.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4774
The horse in any of the equine events is indeed more like a team mate than a piece of equipment. You train together constantly and have to know what each is expecting from the other.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
I think the issue I have is that the horse is more important than the rider. In other animal competitions, it's the animal that receives the rosette/medal, not the owner, handler/rider or trainer. I'm aslo a bit peeved as to how much time the BBC have given to dressage today!

On a similar note, does anyone else in the UK think the coverage has been fairly appalling this year? There's constant channel changes between coverage on 1 and 2. And constant changes to between channel during the same event. Last night annoyed me, they were covering the 100m sprint semi's on one channel and had the gold medal tennis match on another, then after Murray won and we were waiting for the medal ceremony, they switched to show us the 100m and I've not even seen the Tennis medal ceremony on highlights this evening (but did see the highlights of the British rider winning bronze in dressage even though it only finished 30 mins prior).

Why don't they just put all the regular programs on BBC1 and have nothing but Olympic coverage on BBC2 and BBC4? And not switch channels from 4 to 2 or vise versa mid-event?

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Blake wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Bolt wins 100m for a third time. Absolute legend.

I especially love that, given Bolt's start, Gatlin must've thought he was going to win. :twisted:


By the way, I won't be at all surprised if the 400m winner is in the news a few days from now..... It seemed like he was not getting tired at all. It seemed like he was running faster at 350m than he was at 100m. I hope he's legit, though. It was amazing to watch.


On that subject...

Actually, I am glad that Gatlin did not win... Given his history with bans, it would have been as shame to see him beat Bolt.


Yeah, though IMO it's a shame that he is still allowed to compete. Should have been banned for life.

No that's way too harsh. The first positive test was for Ritalin while he was in college and the NCAA actually determined that he had a valid prescription and did not take it to enhance performance. The second one was weird. It was for steroids but it wasn't at a major meet. It was just some no-name meet out in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, he served a 4 year suspension during the prime of his career and missed the 2008 Olympics. I think that's punishment enough. I have been impressed by Gatlin in recent years. To win silver at 34 years of age in the 100 meters is an amazing fete. He's the oldest medalist in the history of the event.


Does that matter?. A drugs cheat is a drugs cheat really, whether done once for a small meet or religiously through a state sponsored programme.

It makes me question the validity of all the tests he passed before that rather than think he just decided to cheat to win a small meet to be honest.

And it stains all of his "accomplishments" for me unfortunately even if he's completely clean now as the groundwork was done with the help of PED's and him being there just sends out the wrong message.

It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4737
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Yeah, though IMO it's a shame that he is still allowed to compete. Should have been banned for life.

No that's way too harsh. The first positive test was for Ritalin while he was in college and the NCAA actually determined that he had a valid prescription and did not take it to enhance performance. The second one was weird. It was for steroids but it wasn't at a major meet. It was just some no-name meet out in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, he served a 4 year suspension during the prime of his career and missed the 2008 Olympics. I think that's punishment enough. I have been impressed by Gatlin in recent years. To win silver at 34 years of age in the 100 meters is an amazing fete. He's the oldest medalist in the history of the event.


Does that matter?. A drugs cheat is a drugs cheat really, whether done once for a small meet or religiously through a state sponsored programme.

It makes me question the validity of all the tests he passed before that rather than think he just decided to cheat to win a small meet to be honest.

And it stains all of his "accomplishments" for me unfortunately even if he's completely clean now as the groundwork was done with the help of PED's and him being there just sends out the wrong message.

It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


He is a criminal, he stole medals,money and sponsorship from the clean athletes he was competing against and beat through his cheating.

But no he shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life but he shouldn't be anywhere near an Olympics as a competitor. He could make a living out of talking to young athletes about the dangers of being sucked into cheating and the impact it can have or things like that.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9876
Location: Travelling around the world
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6274
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/

I guess I'd want to read interviews with all the judges to heat their reasoning on the decision to understand it. Suppose it's one of those times when the medals are given by judges rather than a clear cut winner can cause controversy.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Yeah, though IMO it's a shame that he is still allowed to compete. Should have been banned for life.

No that's way too harsh. The first positive test was for Ritalin while he was in college and the NCAA actually determined that he had a valid prescription and did not take it to enhance performance. The second one was weird. It was for steroids but it wasn't at a major meet. It was just some no-name meet out in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, he served a 4 year suspension during the prime of his career and missed the 2008 Olympics. I think that's punishment enough. I have been impressed by Gatlin in recent years. To win silver at 34 years of age in the 100 meters is an amazing fete. He's the oldest medalist in the history of the event.


Does that matter?. A drugs cheat is a drugs cheat really, whether done once for a small meet or religiously through a state sponsored programme.

It makes me question the validity of all the tests he passed before that rather than think he just decided to cheat to win a small meet to be honest.

And it stains all of his "accomplishments" for me unfortunately even if he's completely clean now as the groundwork was done with the help of PED's and him being there just sends out the wrong message.

It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


He is a criminal, he stole medals,money and sponsorship from the clean athletes he was competing against and beat through his cheating.

But no he shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life but he shouldn't be anywhere near an Olympics as a competitor. He could make a living out of talking to young athletes about the dangers of being sucked into cheating and the impact it can have or things like that.

A-Cheating at a sport does not make you a criminal
B-There is a penalty for failing a drug test (a severe penalty) and he has already served that penalty. There is simply no basis for saying that he shouldn't be able to compete now.
C-Get down off your high horse please. People make mistakes and as long as they pay for those mistakes, they should be allowed to move on with their lives. There are people who have killed someone who have served their time and are now free to move on with their lives but you think someone who failed a drug test more than a decade ago should be banned from competition?

This guy has put in a lot of hard work and has earned the right to compete. I find it shameful that people want to act as though he should never be able to live down something he did so long ago. Those same people have made mistakes in their lives too. Many of them have cheated too; whether it be on their spouses or their taxes or whatever. I can't stand people who hold others to a higher standard than they hold themselves. We've become a society of people who are more comfortable pointing our fingers at others than we are looking in the mirror.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9876
Location: Travelling around the world
minchy wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/

I guess I'd want to read interviews with all the judges to heat their reasoning on the decision to understand it. Suppose it's one of those times when the medals are given by judges rather than a clear cut winner can cause controversy.

I bet the judges wouldn't mention "corruption" in their reasoning

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5173
mcdo wrote:
minchy wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/

I guess I'd want to read interviews with all the judges to heat their reasoning on the decision to understand it. Suppose it's one of those times when the medals are given by judges rather than a clear cut winner can cause controversy.

I bet the judges wouldn't mention "corruption" in their reasoning

:lol: I doubt it!

It's like listening to what Ecclestone says, you've got to read between the lines and make an estimation as to what they're not saying! The fighters were very gracious and professional in their comments though, especially the silver medalist what he thought and the crowds reation.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4737
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
No that's way too harsh. The first positive test was for Ritalin while he was in college and the NCAA actually determined that he had a valid prescription and did not take it to enhance performance. The second one was weird. It was for steroids but it wasn't at a major meet. It was just some no-name meet out in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, he served a 4 year suspension during the prime of his career and missed the 2008 Olympics. I think that's punishment enough. I have been impressed by Gatlin in recent years. To win silver at 34 years of age in the 100 meters is an amazing fete. He's the oldest medalist in the history of the event.


Does that matter?. A drugs cheat is a drugs cheat really, whether done once for a small meet or religiously through a state sponsored programme.

It makes me question the validity of all the tests he passed before that rather than think he just decided to cheat to win a small meet to be honest.

And it stains all of his "accomplishments" for me unfortunately even if he's completely clean now as the groundwork was done with the help of PED's and him being there just sends out the wrong message.

It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


He is a criminal, he stole medals,money and sponsorship from the clean athletes he was competing against and beat through his cheating.

But no he shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life but he shouldn't be anywhere near an Olympics as a competitor. He could make a living out of talking to young athletes about the dangers of being sucked into cheating and the impact it can have or things like that.

A-Cheating at a sport does not make you a criminal
B-There is a penalty for failing a drug test (a severe penalty) and he has already served that penalty. There is simply no basis for saying that he shouldn't be able to compete now.
C-Get down off your high horse please. People make mistakes and as long as they pay for those mistakes, they should be allowed to move on with their lives. There are people who have killed someone who have served their time and are now free to move on with their lives but you think someone who failed a drug test more than a decade ago should be banned from competition?

This guy has put in a lot of hard work and has earned the right to compete. I find it shameful that people want to act as though he should never be able to live down something he did so long ago. Those same people have made mistakes in their lives too. Many of them have cheated too; whether it be on their spouses or their taxes or whatever. I can't stand people who hold others to a higher standard than they hold themselves. We've become a society of people who are more comfortable pointing our fingers at others than we are looking in the mirror.


A. It should when there is money involved.
B. It's my opinion that convicted drugs cheats shouldn't be able to compete at the Olympics.

C- I'm not on any high horse thank you, he's a grown man who tried to cheat his way through a Sport. Saying he should have forfeited any right to carry on competing in that Sport, at Olympic level at least, once he was caught is hardly outrageously harsh or leave me unable to look at myself in the mirror. You're acting like I want him imprisoned or hanged or something.

I realise calling him a criminal is harsh but if there is one person he beat while cheating who as a result didn't get something they worked their backside off for, cleanly rather than taking the cowardly easy route, be it a medal,prize money or sponsorship then yes I find it criminal.

I would have rather they banned him from the Olympics for life rather than give him a 4 year ban for what it's worth, there needs to be strong deterrents to stop cheating and the Olympics are the ultimate prize so not being able to compete there should be the thing that is taken away from drug cheats immediately.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

Does that matter?. A drugs cheat is a drugs cheat really, whether done once for a small meet or religiously through a state sponsored programme.

It makes me question the validity of all the tests he passed before that rather than think he just decided to cheat to win a small meet to be honest.

And it stains all of his "accomplishments" for me unfortunately even if he's completely clean now as the groundwork was done with the help of PED's and him being there just sends out the wrong message.

It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


He is a criminal, he stole medals,money and sponsorship from the clean athletes he was competing against and beat through his cheating.

But no he shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life but he shouldn't be anywhere near an Olympics as a competitor. He could make a living out of talking to young athletes about the dangers of being sucked into cheating and the impact it can have or things like that.

A-Cheating at a sport does not make you a criminal
B-There is a penalty for failing a drug test (a severe penalty) and he has already served that penalty. There is simply no basis for saying that he shouldn't be able to compete now.
C-Get down off your high horse please. People make mistakes and as long as they pay for those mistakes, they should be allowed to move on with their lives. There are people who have killed someone who have served their time and are now free to move on with their lives but you think someone who failed a drug test more than a decade ago should be banned from competition?

This guy has put in a lot of hard work and has earned the right to compete. I find it shameful that people want to act as though he should never be able to live down something he did so long ago. Those same people have made mistakes in their lives too. Many of them have cheated too; whether it be on their spouses or their taxes or whatever. I can't stand people who hold others to a higher standard than they hold themselves. We've become a society of people who are more comfortable pointing our fingers at others than we are looking in the mirror.


A. It should when there is money involved.
B. It's my opinion that convicted drugs cheats shouldn't be able to compete at the Olympics.

C- I'm not on any high horse thank you, he's a grown man who tried to cheat his way through a Sport. Saying he should have forfeited any right to carry on competing in that Sport, at Olympic level at least, once he was caught is hardly outrageously harsh or leave me unable to look at myself in the mirror. You're acting like I want him imprisoned or hanged or something.

I realise calling him a criminal is harsh but if there is one person he beat while cheating who as a result didn't get something they worked their backside off for, cleanly rather than taking the cowardly easy route, be it a medal,prize money or sponsorship then yes I find it criminal.

I would have rather they banned him from the Olympics for life rather than give him a 4 year ban for what it's worth, there needs to be strong deterrents to stop cheating and the Olympics are the ultimate prize so not being able to compete there should be the thing that is taken away from drug cheats immediately.

That was taken away from him. He was unable to compete in the 2008 Olympics. At that time he was 26 years old; basically the prime years of his career. What sport gives you a lifetime ban for one failed test (again, the first test was determined to be non-performance enhancing medication that he had been taking since childhood)?

No matter what deterrent you come up with, there will always be people who break the rules. Rather than simply labeling someone as a villain, try to understand that this is a human being; not some cartoon villain. The heavy-handed moralistic attitude that so many want to show this guy without actually even knowing the details of his failed test is just indicative of our attitudes in today's world.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4737
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It amazes me how people can want to punish someone for the rest of their lives for something like this. He failed a drug test more than a decade ago and he paid a very severe penalty to both his earnings and his reputation. Why should he continue to be punished for this?

To me, it was shameful the way the fans booed him. Most of those people have done things far worse in their lives than taking testosterone to train for a sport but they want to treat this guy like he's a criminal. He's paid the price. People should let him move on and stop going out of their way to make someone miserable.


He is a criminal, he stole medals,money and sponsorship from the clean athletes he was competing against and beat through his cheating.

But no he shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life but he shouldn't be anywhere near an Olympics as a competitor. He could make a living out of talking to young athletes about the dangers of being sucked into cheating and the impact it can have or things like that.

A-Cheating at a sport does not make you a criminal
B-There is a penalty for failing a drug test (a severe penalty) and he has already served that penalty. There is simply no basis for saying that he shouldn't be able to compete now.
C-Get down off your high horse please. People make mistakes and as long as they pay for those mistakes, they should be allowed to move on with their lives. There are people who have killed someone who have served their time and are now free to move on with their lives but you think someone who failed a drug test more than a decade ago should be banned from competition?

This guy has put in a lot of hard work and has earned the right to compete. I find it shameful that people want to act as though he should never be able to live down something he did so long ago. Those same people have made mistakes in their lives too. Many of them have cheated too; whether it be on their spouses or their taxes or whatever. I can't stand people who hold others to a higher standard than they hold themselves. We've become a society of people who are more comfortable pointing our fingers at others than we are looking in the mirror.


A. It should when there is money involved.
B. It's my opinion that convicted drugs cheats shouldn't be able to compete at the Olympics.

C- I'm not on any high horse thank you, he's a grown man who tried to cheat his way through a Sport. Saying he should have forfeited any right to carry on competing in that Sport, at Olympic level at least, once he was caught is hardly outrageously harsh or leave me unable to look at myself in the mirror. You're acting like I want him imprisoned or hanged or something.

I realise calling him a criminal is harsh but if there is one person he beat while cheating who as a result didn't get something they worked their backside off for, cleanly rather than taking the cowardly easy route, be it a medal,prize money or sponsorship then yes I find it criminal.

I would have rather they banned him from the Olympics for life rather than give him a 4 year ban for what it's worth, there needs to be strong deterrents to stop cheating and the Olympics are the ultimate prize so not being able to compete there should be the thing that is taken away from drug cheats immediately.

That was taken away from him. He was unable to compete in the 2008 Olympics. At that time he was 26 years old; basically the prime years of his career. What sport gives you a lifetime ban for one failed test (again, the first test was determined to be non-performance enhancing medication that he had been taking since childhood)?

No matter what deterrent you come up with, there will always be people who break the rules. Rather than simply labeling someone as a villain, try to understand that this is a human being; not some cartoon villain. The heavy-handed moralistic attitude that so many want to show this guy without actually even knowing the details of his failed test is just indicative of our attitudes in today's world.


I meant for good, not just one. The UK implement(or at least did) a lifetime Olympic ban for drugs cheats, and once is enough. I read your explanation for his first incident and I've honestly got no problem with it. It's the second one I have a problem with and I just don't think you should be able to take part in the Olympics if you decide to cheat, it just sends out the wrong message.

I get that he's a human being and we all make mistakes, I genuinely wish him all the best in his life moving forward, just not as an Olympian. If there was a blanket Olympic ban for all cheats maybe it would deter them, you yourself obviously find it incredibly harsh, harsher than what he already served I assume?. Maybe it would have been enough to stop JG, who knows.

But i'm happy to agree to disagree with you on this one.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9876
Location: Travelling around the world
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
minchy wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote:
Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/

I guess I'd want to read interviews with all the judges to heat their reasoning on the decision to understand it. Suppose it's one of those times when the medals are given by judges rather than a clear cut winner can cause controversy.

I bet the judges wouldn't mention "corruption" in their reasoning

:lol: I doubt it!

It's like listening to what Ecclestone says, you've got to read between the lines and make an estimation as to what they're not saying! The fighters were very gracious and professional in their comments though, especially the silver medalist what he thought and the crowds reation.

...aaand they've done it again. Irish fighter Michael Conlon boxed the absolute crap out of the Russian Vladimir Nikitin. The Russian fella was awarded the win

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
The boxing has been a joke. Is there some reason the Brazilian fans are booing all American athletes mercilessly? I'm confused by that...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9876
Location: Travelling around the world
sandman1347 wrote:
The boxing has been a joke. Is there some reason the Brazilian fans are booing all American athletes mercilessly? I'm confused by that...

I don't know. Is it a case of booing competition from any other nation? I know the French pole vaulter Lavillenie had strong words to say about the Brazilian fans and reckoned they played a role in his loss to the Brazilian guy

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5020
sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Along with the others, lets recognize the performance of the gymnast, Simone Biles, thus far.

I would say that Simone Biles is making a strong case for being the Athlete of the 2016 Summer Olympics. She still has two individual events to go, but has been totally dominate in her first three competitions. She has to be the favorite for the Balance Beam as well as the Floor Exercise.

Seconded; Biles is considered by experts to be the best gymnast ever. She has certainly made our team invincible this year and if she can pull off all 5, it would be the best Olympics by a female gymnast ever!

So she finished with 4 gold and 1 bronze. Still an amazing performance! She has my vote thus far for best performance of the Olympic games.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3614
I think Laura Trott and Jason Kenny are high up their as far as this Olympics goes, assuming the next hour or so goes well. What a couple. Any offspring they have are going to be amazing cyclists!

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: Los Angeles, California
sandman1347 wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Blake wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
Bolt wins 100m for a third time. Absolute legend.

I especially love that, given Bolt's start, Gatlin must've thought he was going to win. :twisted:


By the way, I won't be at all surprised if the 400m winner is in the news a few days from now..... It seemed like he was not getting tired at all. It seemed like he was running faster at 350m than he was at 100m. I hope he's legit, though. It was amazing to watch.


On that subject...

Actually, I am glad that Gatlin did not win... Given his history with bans, it would have been as shame to see him beat Bolt.


Yeah, though IMO it's a shame that he is still allowed to compete. Should have been banned for life.

No that's way too harsh. The first positive test was for Ritalin while he was in college and the NCAA actually determined that he had a valid prescription and did not take it to enhance performance. The second one was weird. It was for steroids but it wasn't at a major meet. It was just some no-name meet out in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, he served a 4 year suspension during the prime of his career and missed the 2008 Olympics. I think that's punishment enough. I have been impressed by Gatlin in recent years. To win silver at 34 years of age in the 100 meters is an amazing fete. He's the oldest medalist in the history of the event.


I don't. He and Tyson Gay can stay gone, as far as I'm concerned. Deliberately taking steroids is not a mistake. Getting caught was the mistake. Draconian punishments are never popular, and I get why, but I have slowly come around to the idea that such punishments would solve a lot of problems, both in and out of sport.

_________________
"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: Los Angeles, California
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote:
mcdo wrote:
You know what's criminal? That decision last night in the heavyweight boxing was criminal

Didn't see it, what happened?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/olympic ... -rio-2016/



Sounds similar to the Roy Jones incident in Seoul '88.

_________________
"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: Los Angeles, California
sandman1347 wrote:
The boxing has been a joke. Is there some reason the Brazilian fans are booing all American athletes mercilessly? I'm confused by that...



I have asked my Brazilian friends this over the last week. They say they were not surprised by the booing, and that Brazilian fans have no manners at the best of times, though the "Zika" chants are mostly fans just having fun and are not (entirely) malicious in nature.

_________________
"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 544
Asphalt_World wrote:
I think Laura Trott and Jason Kenny are high up their as far as this Olympics goes, assuming the next hour or so goes well. What a couple. Any offspring they have are going to be amazing cyclists!


I tend to agree. That was a very special performance from Laura Trott- she really is a class apart from the rest of the field. She's now Britain's most decorated female Olympian with that gold win. Such an amazing talent.

_________________
You just need to be accepted for who you are and be proud of who you are and that is what I'm trying to do.
Lewis Hamilton


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group