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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:47 am 
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Don't forget to go vote today, everyone should do it.

Even if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates on offer you should still turn up to spoil your ballot - spoiled ballots get counted and they are more significant than no vote at all as they show the parties that you can be bothered to turn up and tick the box, it's just that none of them are worth voting for.

If you are still undecided and don't want to spend too much time looking at policies etc. the BBC do a handy little tool for comparing parties on key areas in their manifestos.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39955886


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:15 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Don't forget to go vote today, everyone should do it.

Even if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates on offer you should still turn up to spoil your ballot - spoiled ballots get counted and they are more significant than no vote at all as they show the parties that you can be bothered to turn up and tick the box, it's just that none of them are worth voting for.

If you are still undecided and don't want to spend too much time looking at policies etc. the BBC do a handy little tool for comparing parties on key areas in their manifestos.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39955886


I think spoiling the ballot is a false economy. Everyone sees the turnout figures, and political parties are already motivated to improve turnout (murdering, callous Tory b*stards will want to get the older person vote out generally, Labour will want to get young people voting, SNP will want to get younger people in Scotland out, UKIP will want to inspire the racists, Lib Dems want to get the few people who remember they exist out to vote..)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:40 am 
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Quite possibly true but IMO it's more politically engaged than simply not turning up.

I'd bet that if you take 100 people that spoiled ballots today and 100 people who didn't vote at all and then look at what they do in 2022, more of the people that spoiled ballots would vote for a party than those who didn't vote.

As for your summary of voters, firstly :lol: , secondly I have to admit I am going to be voting Lib Dem for one simple reason.

I live in a very safe conservative constituency and the only question to ask is will they get 60 or 70% of the vote - as a result I've come to hate the current political system as I'm safe in the knowledge that my vote won't have the slightest impact on parliament. Lib Dems have proportional representation in their manifesto and so I'm voting for them, it's really that simple for me. I may agree with other parties policies more in general but unless I move to a contested constituency that's irrelevant, I want to have a chance of actually effecting parliament when I turn up to vote.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:46 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Don't forget to go vote today, everyone should do it.

Even if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates on offer you should still turn up to spoil your ballot - spoiled ballots get counted and they are more significant than no vote at all as they show the parties that you can be bothered to turn up and tick the box, it's just that none of them are worth voting for.

If you are still undecided and don't want to spend too much time looking at policies etc. the BBC do a handy little tool for comparing parties on key areas in their manifestos.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39955886


I think spoiling the ballot is a false economy. Everyone sees the turnout figures, and political parties are already motivated to improve turnout (murdering, callous Tory b*stards will want to get the older person vote out generally, Labour will want to get young people voting, SNP will want to get younger people in Scotland out, UKIP will want to inspire the racists, Lib Dems want to get the few people who remember they exist out to vote..)


No need to ask who you're voting for then. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:34 am 
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Meeting my best mate at 18.00 for the customary walk to vote, then a cheeky chippy for dinner afterwards. Whenever we go to the polling station we do this. I think this is my first vote since I moved from my parents house that is on a miserable day though. Pretty miserable here in Glasgow.

I must say, when I was 19 I think was the first election I voted in, 2007 Scottish elections. I was pretty sure who I was voting for was the good choice and I was right about it. As the years have gone by I have rather lost that assuredness. Each political party seems to have something "wrong" with them in my eyes. I live in the Glasgow - South district, so in all likelihood it's between SNP and Labour, assuming the SNP don't smash the crap out of the polling like they did in 2015. And, not having checked opinion polls or projections, I'm pretty sure this seat is staying SNP. I'm not an SNP guy primarily because I don't want Scottish Independence (though my assuredness of that decision has also dropped since that vote happened to the point I think I could be swayed by a decent argument if it comes again). I will go and vote, but I really do not think my vote will really matter. I don't get why 30% of the eligible population don't vote. Even if my vote is probably useless, worth a go in case things run close or the unofficial polls miss the mark - of course when was the last time polls suggested one outcome and we got another!


However, glass half full, I love election night coverage. I really do. I don't know why I enjoy it so much. Any big vote - Scottish Election, UK GE, Indy Ref, US Presidential are all a blast for me. No idea why I love it so much. However, I won't be staying up for it this year.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:52 am 
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I voted first thing this morning before walking to work.

I really enjoy election nights. Channel 4 are doing their comedy coverage again, so I'll be watching that before staying up late to watch the first lot of results come in.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Quite possibly true but IMO it's more politically engaged than simply not turning up.

I'd bet that if you take 100 people that spoiled ballots today and 100 people who didn't vote at all and then look at what they do in 2022, more of the people that spoiled ballots would vote for a party than those who didn't vote.

As for your summary of voters, firstly :lol: , secondly I have to admit I am going to be voting Lib Dem for one simple reason.

I live in a very safe conservative constituency and the only question to ask is will they get 60 or 70% of the vote - as a result I've come to hate the current political system as I'm safe in the knowledge that my vote won't have the slightest impact on parliament. Lib Dems have proportional representation in their manifesto and so I'm voting for them, it's really that simple for me. I may agree with other parties policies more in general but unless I move to a contested constituency that's irrelevant, I want to have a chance of actually effecting parliament when I turn up to vote.


I agree with you, it is more politically engaged and if you picked a random 100 people who didn't vote & 100 people who spoiled ballots you're guaranteed the spoiled ballots group are more politically engaged and likely to vote in the future. I just don't think politicians care either way, & I don't think it has a material affect.

I was being intentionally obtuse in my language btw :) - I do like Lib Dems, although a much more socialist Labour seem to have taken any potential wind out of their sails this time round. Proportional representation & a federal Britain should be 2 priorities, unfortunately it would mean very selfish politicians removing power from themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:13 pm 
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mac_d wrote:
I don't get why 30% of the eligible population don't vote. Even if my vote is probably useless, worth a go in case things run close or the unofficial polls miss the mark - of course when was the last time polls suggested one outcome and we got another!


On this point - I think it does come down to technology & our First Past the Post system to some degree.

There's an entire generation of people not used to needing to do things manually. Needing to go to a building and tick a box? pffft. Let me do it electronically.

But... First Past the f*cking Post again. I voted SNP this morning because Mhairi Black is my MP, she seems to do a good job of it and is a decent type. She's also not entirely safe from Labour taking her seat, and I think she deserves to stay.

Where I lived up until about 12 months ago - there's zero chance of SNP losing the seat. If I vote SNP, how am I motivated to go out when I know they'll win? If I vote anyone else, how am I motivated to go out when I know they'll lose? At least with proportional representation your vote really does count. So many seats essentially render the voting pointless on an individual basis. And I know if either everyone had this attitude or everyone avoided this attitude results would be much different, but it doesn't remove the fact that many individuals will not bother going that walk in the rain for something they already think they have no control over.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:40 pm 
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@Ennis - Mhairi Black is awesome. If more politicians were like her, the public would be more engaged.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Herb wrote:
@Ennis - Mhairi Black is awesome. If more politicians were like her, the public would be more engaged.


I was genuinely shocked when I seen her seat as one of those which are at risk. I think it just highlights how people vote for an issue, rather than the person for the job.

This election is wrecking my brain. We've got the pro-independence SNP not mentioning Independence (I say correctly, as the mandate for that comes in the Scottish Elections not the UK ones - but I'm biased), we have callous, murdering Tories not shutting up about Independence whilst accusing the SNP of not shutting up about Independence, & Labour seeing a surge due to Corbyn despite Scottish Labour still being seen as completely incompetent & essentially trying to run on an anti-Independence ticket, but doing a worse job of it than the Tories and having a negative campaign whilst UK Labour runs a largely positive campaign.

You have people voting SNP who'd want to vote Labour but can't because their Scottish wing is horrific, you have people who want to vote the pro-Union Labour voting for the pro-Union Tories as they don't trust Labour with the Union despite all risk to the Union coming under Tory Government, you have people voting Labour who'd want to vote SNP but can't hide their love of Corbyn's agenda...

I want off this world.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:07 pm 
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If I don't like one of the two main parties, I always vote for an independent. It gets counted as one against then.

And I DON'T mean independent as in Ukip. 8O


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Herb wrote:
@Ennis - Mhairi Black is awesome. If more politicians were like her, the public would be more engaged.


I was genuinely shocked when I seen her seat as one of those which are at risk. I think it just highlights how people vote for an issue, rather than the person for the job.

This election is wrecking my brain. We've got the pro-independence SNP not mentioning Independence (I say correctly, as the mandate for that comes in the Scottish Elections not the UK ones - but I'm biased), we have callous, murdering Tories not shutting up about Independence whilst accusing the SNP of not shutting up about Independence, & Labour seeing a surge due to Corbyn despite Scottish Labour still being seen as completely incompetent & essentially trying to run on an anti-Independence ticket, but doing a worse job of it than the Tories and having a negative campaign whilst UK Labour runs a largely positive campaign.

You have people voting SNP who'd want to vote Labour but can't because their Scottish wing is horrific, you have people who want to vote the pro-Union Labour voting for the pro-Union Tories as they don't trust Labour with the Union despite all risk to the Union coming under Tory Government, you have people voting Labour who'd want to vote SNP but can't hide their love of Corbyn's agenda...

I want off this world.


I have it relatively easy. I'm a Labour member in a very safe Labour seat. The only issue is I don't particularly like my MP, Rachel Reeves. But after a wavering start (like many) she's got in line and is now supporting Corbyn.

I'm swinging between optimism and pessimism for the future.

The Labour majority is just not going to happen - no matter how 'red' my facebook and twitter timelines currently are. I imagine the best possible scenario right now is a Labour/SNP alliance (with the Green and other similar MPs along for the ride).

However, past experience has taught me that the the bubble that I live in is vastly different to how the British electorate vote. So I'm expecting an increased Tory majority tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Been out and voted this afternoon. It does feel strangely empowering even though deep down I know that my single vote makes not a jot of difference in the grand scheme of things.

My biggest frustration with this whole thing is that it's nigh on impossible to find a balanced, impartial opinion on political matters. There's not a single publication that I trust to give me the facts without some degree of truth-bending as they all have a target market that they are trying appease by feeding them the opinions they want to read. A lot of people I try to speak to are so biased that I feel they'd vote for a donkey as long as it had the right coloured rosette stuck on it.

I'm expecting a Tory majority despite their shambolic campaign. It's quite clear to me that they called the election because they expected a landslide victory, but I feel it'll end up far closer than it should have been. Theresa May not even turning up to the televised leaders' debate showed unbelievable complacency.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Polling of a few of my friends - all based in Glasgow's districts. A good few said voting SNP or Labour to keep the Tories out. Most do not seem to really have a strong opinion or a favoured candidate or party.

It's 20 to 7, and I'm meeting my pal at 7pm (he got delayed on way home from work). I don't actually know who I will be voting for. At least the rain has stopped.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:12 pm 
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As an American I envy your choice of more than 2 viable parties. Although maybe it can seem like just a broader selection of poor choices.

And I don't know what the news media would do if we managed to get as high as 70% turnout for a general election. 60% is normally about as good as we get for presidential election years, 50% if we're lucky in mid-term elections.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Just voted in Edinburgh where I live it's a straight fight between the SNP and the Tories, so I have voted to keep the Tories out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Exit polls place Conservatives 12 seats short of a majority - hung parliament.

Worth noting they got the Conservative vote wrong by 15 seats in 2015 so with a similar margin of error it will be close between small Conservative majority and hung parliament. Whichever it is May's gamble has backfired.

Could be an interesting night after all!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:04 pm 
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Speaking to friends in Scotland and quite a few moving to Labour, which if representative makes it more likely that the Tories will gains seats rather than Labour (in Scotland).

Only 10 polling stations out of 3000 were sampled in Scotland for the exit poll so I'm not reading too much into the exit poll at the moment.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:39 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Herb wrote:
@Ennis - Mhairi Black is awesome. If more politicians were like her, the public would be more engaged.


I was genuinely shocked when I seen her seat as one of those which are at risk. I think it just highlights how people vote for an issue, rather than the person for the job.

This election is wrecking my brain. We've got the pro-independence SNP not mentioning Independence (I say correctly, as the mandate for that comes in the Scottish Elections not the UK ones - but I'm biased), we have callous, murdering Tories not shutting up about Independence whilst accusing the SNP of not shutting up about Independence, & Labour seeing a surge due to Corbyn despite Scottish Labour still being seen as completely incompetent & essentially trying to run on an anti-Independence ticket, but doing a worse job of it than the Tories and having a negative campaign whilst UK Labour runs a largely positive campaign.

You have people voting SNP who'd want to vote Labour but can't because their Scottish wing is horrific, you have people who want to vote the pro-Union Labour voting for the pro-Union Tories as they don't trust Labour with the Union despite all risk to the Union coming under Tory Government, you have people voting Labour who'd want to vote SNP but can't hide their love of Corbyn's agenda...

I want off this world.


Well done Mhairi Black. Kept her seat on what looks like a rough night for SNP. I think entirely because of her performance since being elected.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:14 am 
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Why was the election called in first place?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:28 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
Why was the election called in first place?


Two reasons in my opinion:

Labour's approval rating was through the floor, Theresa May thought she had an opportunity to win a large majority.

The next election was due less than 12 months after the Article 50 deadline for us leaving the EU. She wanted to build in more time for a bounce to their popularity after we don't get a good exit deal.

I think she thought she could wrench a few more years of Tory government. That's looking unlikely now, but you never know. I do think she'll lose her job though. I really hope we don't get Boris Johnson now...

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Last edited by Herb on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:51 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
Why was the election called in first place?

At the time it was called the Conservative party was way ahead in opinion polls, so by calling the election now it should have been an easy victory for them and they would have been in power until 2022, not 2020 as it would have otherwise been.

They say it was for things like "getting a better mandate for leaving the EU" and as Herb points out it would have made the next election just after EU exit negotiations finished which is probably not the best time to be fair as emotions could be running high if people feel let down and so on.

Ultimately though it's a political power play, called at a time which looked advantageous to the ruling party with the hope they would win more seats and an extra 2 years of government. They may say it was for the reasons above but in reality if they weren't miles ahead in the polls at the time, they wouldn't have called it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:08 am 
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Herb wrote:

Well done Mhairi Black. Kept her seat on what looks like a rough night for SNP. I think entirely because of her performance since being elected.


Yeah, and just to confuse things further-

Conservatives, who have become the party of Hard Brexit, will now rely on seats gained in Remain-Voting Scotland & their Remain-Voting Northern Irish allies to form a Government.

I'm genuinely ashamed of the amount of Conservative seats in Scotland. SNP losses not a huge surprise, but wish they were to Labour. Scotland probably has a base of around 18-22% of true Conservatives, with their vote propped up by Unionists who think Tories are the only way to save it (despite them being the only part who have come close to destroying it).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:19 am 
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A really bad night for the SNP, thankfully my seat where I live stayed SNP.
Gutted for Angus Robertson I went to school with guy and the man breathes SNP.

A great night for the Labour Party in the UK and Corbyn played a blinder and some Labour MP's who went against their leader should come out in public and thank the man.

As for the Scots who voted Tory maybe more in the North East of Scotland be careful what you wish for.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:57 am 
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scotlandforever wrote:
A really bad night for the SNP, thankfully my seat where I live stayed SNP.
Gutted for Angus Robertson I went to school with guy and the man breathes SNP.

A great night for the Labour Party in the UK and Corbyn played a blinder and some Labour MP's who went against their leader should come out in public and thank the man.

As for the Scots who voted Tory maybe more in the North East of Scotland be careful what you wish for.


The Tory vote here is absolutely crazy. My biggest fear is Scottish Labour consider this a victory, and continue to push their negative tactics. Labour done well in Scotland due to Westminster Labour, and primarily the Corbyn effect. They improved in spite of Scottish Labour, not because of it. They need to wake the f*ck up and follow Corbyn's positive lead.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:03 am 
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Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


May has been to see the Queen to ask to form a government. No formal coalition with the DUP but they have done some sort of deal where DUP will support the government in parliament.

Which in theory is all well and good for them. But it won't turn out like that. Conservative backbenchers will already be plotting a way to get rid of May, she'll be gone soon and we may even have another election within a year.

Edit: To add, the Queen's speech where the govt sets out it's legislative programme isn't far away (19th June I believe). If that gets voted down in the House of Commons I think the queen would invite Corbyn to form a government. If he fails to do that, another election.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:24 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


May has been to see the Queen to ask to form a government. No formal coalition with the DUP but they have done some sort of deal where DUP will support the government in parliament.

Which in theory is all well and good for them. But it won't turn out like that. Conservative backbenchers will already be plotting a way to get rid of May, she'll be gone soon and we may even have another election within a year.

Edit: To add, the Queen's speech where the govt sets out it's legislative programme isn't far away (19th June I believe). If that gets voted down in the House of Commons I think the queen would invite Corbyn to form a government. If he fails to do that, another election.


I do wonder how long it'll last. Can May really pass any legislation without the DUP now? And if DUP support here, they're going to want something in return.

Are the more centrist people within the Tories going to accept giving concessions to climate change deniers? How does Ruth Davidson feel about getting in bed with homophobes (no pun intended)?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


May has been to see the Queen to ask to form a government. No formal coalition with the DUP but they have done some sort of deal where DUP will support the government in parliament.

Which in theory is all well and good for them. But it won't turn out like that. Conservative backbenchers will already be plotting a way to get rid of May, she'll be gone soon and we may even have another election within a year.

Edit: To add, the Queen's speech where the govt sets out it's legislative programme isn't far away (19th June I believe). If that gets voted down in the House of Commons I think the queen would invite Corbyn to form a government. If he fails to do that, another election.


I do wonder how long it'll last. Can May really pass any legislation without the DUP now? And if DUP support here, they're going to want something in return.

Are the more centrist people within the Tories going to accept giving concessions to climate change deniers? How does Ruth Davidson feel about getting in bed with homophobes (no pun intended)?

I can't imagine for a second that there won't be a challenge to May's leadership within the next few weeks. The Tories are ruthless when it comes to this.

Ruth Davidson seems to be on a high, I can see a large chunk of them getting behind her. And Boris won't think twice about jumping to support someone else after he was stitched up post-Brexit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Ennis wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


May has been to see the Queen to ask to form a government. No formal coalition with the DUP but they have done some sort of deal where DUP will support the government in parliament.

Which in theory is all well and good for them. But it won't turn out like that. Conservative backbenchers will already be plotting a way to get rid of May, she'll be gone soon and we may even have another election within a year.

Edit: To add, the Queen's speech where the govt sets out it's legislative programme isn't far away (19th June I believe). If that gets voted down in the House of Commons I think the queen would invite Corbyn to form a government. If he fails to do that, another election.


I do wonder how long it'll last. Can May really pass any legislation without the DUP now? And if DUP support here, they're going to want something in return.

Are the more centrist people within the Tories going to accept giving concessions to climate change deniers? How does Ruth Davidson feel about getting in bed with homophobes (no pun intended)?

I can't imagine for a second that there won't be a challenge to May's leadership within the next few weeks. The Tories are ruthless when it comes to this.

Ruth Davidson seems to be on a high, I can see a large chunk of them getting behind her. And Boris won't think twice about jumping to support someone else after he was stitched up post-Brexit.


There will be Tories on the backbenches who will be very reluctant to support May fully when it comes to votes.

The issue for Ruth Davidson is that she isn't an MP so couldn't lead the party in HoC. I'd expect Boris to run if there was a leadership contest.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:27 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Herb wrote:
Ennis wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looks as though we're looking at a Conservative, DUP government then from what I've seen, but my understanding of what happens next isn't great. Anyone better informed have any idea how this is likely to shape up?


May has been to see the Queen to ask to form a government. No formal coalition with the DUP but they have done some sort of deal where DUP will support the government in parliament.

Which in theory is all well and good for them. But it won't turn out like that. Conservative backbenchers will already be plotting a way to get rid of May, she'll be gone soon and we may even have another election within a year.

Edit: To add, the Queen's speech where the govt sets out it's legislative programme isn't far away (19th June I believe). If that gets voted down in the House of Commons I think the queen would invite Corbyn to form a government. If he fails to do that, another election.


I do wonder how long it'll last. Can May really pass any legislation without the DUP now? And if DUP support here, they're going to want something in return.

Are the more centrist people within the Tories going to accept giving concessions to climate change deniers? How does Ruth Davidson feel about getting in bed with homophobes (no pun intended)?

I can't imagine for a second that there won't be a challenge to May's leadership within the next few weeks. The Tories are ruthless when it comes to this.

Ruth Davidson seems to be on a high, I can see a large chunk of them getting behind her. And Boris won't think twice about jumping to support someone else after he was stitched up post-Brexit.


There will be Tories on the backbenches who will be very reluctant to support May fully when it comes to votes.

The issue for Ruth Davidson is that she isn't an MP so couldn't lead the party in HoC. I'd expect Boris to run if there was a leadership contest.


You've surprised me. Given her profile, I'd always assumed she was a Westminster mp.

Yeh, no chance of her becoming leader until the next by election. Boris it is then.

God we're screwed.

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