planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:23 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules





Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 643
moby wrote:
So considering the above, is it a good idea to arm Teachers and rely on them to act 'as instructed'?
Do they spend a day a month at the range?
What if it is one of the teachers that does the shooting?

Going down this path is just stupidity. Even bringing in reliable 'guards' is a slippery slope. A guard worth his/her position is not going to work for peanuts, and is not going to be sharp without continued training. There are going to be better paid jobs for anyone trained and able to do this to the required standard so either the costs are huge or the standards are low or the turnover is so high as to be untenable.


I do not believe that arming the teachers should even be considered tbh. A teacher has an emotional connection with their students and would hesitiate to fire upon another person they know/love. There are alot of factors to consider. Cost of training (who would pay for this), how much training would "qualify" a teacher to certified for such a situation? What happens if a teacher opens fire on a threat but hits a innocent student? (I saw one news clip on the tv and a principle of a school was doing a training with a fire arm and he shot the wrong target. He was then asked what happens if that was a real innocent fatality and his reply was "the life of 1 innocent vs saving hundreds is worth taking the shot.") arming the teachers is a really bad idea imo.......

As for the deputy there is no one solution for this situation it can be debate many ways, For example

1) if sheriff deputy scot perterson received better training he would have perhaps had more confidence to take on the shooter and resolve the issue himself.

2) better gun laws would have prevented a 18yr old from owning an assault rifle.

3) if the countless warnings regarding the shooter Nicholas cruz were followed up in a more stringent manor this would have been prevented before it even started.

So many variables in this situation

_________________
PF1 pick 10 2016: 7th (1 win, 4 podiums), 2017: 17th (3 podiums)
Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 7929
Mayhem wrote:
moby wrote:
So considering the above, is it a good idea to arm Teachers and rely on them to act 'as instructed'?
Do they spend a day a month at the range?
What if it is one of the teachers that does the shooting?

Going down this path is just stupidity. Even bringing in reliable 'guards' is a slippery slope. A guard worth his/her position is not going to work for peanuts, and is not going to be sharp without continued training. There are going to be better paid jobs for anyone trained and able to do this to the required standard so either the costs are huge or the standards are low or the turnover is so high as to be untenable.


I do not believe that arming the teachers should even be considered tbh. A teacher has an emotional connection with their students and would hesitiate to fire upon another person they know/love. There are alot of factors to consider. Cost of training (who would pay for this), how much training would "qualify" a teacher to certified for such a situation? What happens if a teacher opens fire on a threat but hits a innocent student? (I saw one news clip on the tv and a principle of a school was doing a training with a fire arm and he shot the wrong target. He was then asked what happens if that was a real innocent fatality and his reply was "the life of 1 innocent vs saving hundreds is worth taking the shot.") arming the teachers is a really bad idea imo.......

As for the deputy there is no one solution for this situation it can be debate many ways, For example

1) if sheriff deputy scot perterson received better training he would have perhaps had more confidence to take on the shooter and resolve the issue himself.

2) better gun laws would have prevented a 18yr old from owning an assault rifle.

3) if the countless warnings regarding the shooter Nicholas cruz were followed up in a more stringent manor this would have been prevented before it even started.

So many variables in this situation


1), If he was better trained and more confident the odds are he would have moved on to a better paid job.

2&3) are the same. How do you keep the freely available item from the wrong people and who decides who are the wrong people.

It has to be stopped at source and NO ONE should be allowed to carry that sort of weapon in a ready state.
Having said that, 2 16 round hand guns could be reloaded in a second so...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 643
moby wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
moby wrote:
So considering the above, is it a good idea to arm Teachers and rely on them to act 'as instructed'?
Do they spend a day a month at the range?
What if it is one of the teachers that does the shooting?

Going down this path is just stupidity. Even bringing in reliable 'guards' is a slippery slope. A guard worth his/her position is not going to work for peanuts, and is not going to be sharp without continued training. There are going to be better paid jobs for anyone trained and able to do this to the required standard so either the costs are huge or the standards are low or the turnover is so high as to be untenable.


I do not believe that arming the teachers should even be considered tbh. A teacher has an emotional connection with their students and would hesitiate to fire upon another person they know/love. There are alot of factors to consider. Cost of training (who would pay for this), how much training would "qualify" a teacher to certified for such a situation? What happens if a teacher opens fire on a threat but hits a innocent student? (I saw one news clip on the tv and a principle of a school was doing a training with a fire arm and he shot the wrong target. He was then asked what happens if that was a real innocent fatality and his reply was "the life of 1 innocent vs saving hundreds is worth taking the shot.") arming the teachers is a really bad idea imo.......

As for the deputy there is no one solution for this situation it can be debate many ways, For example

1) if sheriff deputy scot perterson received better training he would have perhaps had more confidence to take on the shooter and resolve the issue himself.

2) better gun laws would have prevented a 18yr old from owning an assault rifle.

3) if the countless warnings regarding the shooter Nicholas cruz were followed up in a more stringent manor this would have been prevented before it even started.

So many variables in this situation


1), If he was better trained and more confident the odds are he would have moved on to a better paid job.

2&3) are the same. How do you keep the freely available item from the wrong people and who decides who are the wrong people.

It has to be stopped at source and NO ONE should be allowed to carry that sort of weapon in a ready state.
Having said that, 2 16 round hand guns could be reloaded in a second so...


1) Not necessarily, but that is your opinion.

2) I agree on the fact that he should have been red flagged a long time ago and wasnt. As i stated previously alot of variables led to this. (Lack of follow up by many departments.)

But thats the whole debate on the constitution and how the regulations currently stand. People wanna have their cake and eat it too. A entire ban will not happen any time soon ( possibly never) As we witnessed just last week when the bill was brought to the florida senate. They wouldnt even debate it and they voted No by a huge margin.

Imo this is how it plays out new sanctions will be placed, age limits raised for assault rifles, magazine limitation placed nation wide, more stringent back round check searching for mental health (maybe even a doctor evalution/ sign off needed) and a waiting period will be placed on long guns.

Another tragedy will happen again and the cycle restarts.

_________________
PF1 pick 10 2016: 7th (1 win, 4 podiums), 2017: 17th (3 podiums)
Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1782
Mayhem wrote:
I agree that the average civilian cannot know how they will react in the face of a tragedy until it is presented to them. the problem here though is that Sherriff deputy scot Peterson isn't the average civilian

This is a man who has been in law enforcement for 32 years. A man who has had countless hours/ years of training for such a situation and he froze. This is a man whom has qualified with his personal firearm to be licensed / allowed to discharge his firearm is he deems the action is appropriate WHILE ON/OFF DUTY. A man who more then likely has un-holstered his firearm in the line of duty and more then likely has engaged previous threats in his tenure as a police officer for 3 decades. This man doesn't fall under the category of a civilian. He took an oath to serve and protect the public. A man who took a job to protect a school all while armed. He wasn't there with mace, a whistle and a flash light.so his excuse of "I secured the perimeter" is disgusting to say the least. He was on duty, he was the first responder to the scene and did nothing. His own boss said that scot Peterson did nothing but take cover outside while the people he was assigned to protect were killed. This man didn't do his job and flat out let people die because he failed to go inside.


You seem to be wording this like he made a choice.

Your brain control yous. You do not control it.

During previous World Wars, we had thousands upon thousands of trained men who had taken an oath to serve their country and had an intentionally de-humanized enemy shooting at them. And they'd still stand there, pretending to pull a trigger or aiming at nothing. Add in the fact that this guy was not 'answering a call'. He wasn't sitting in his car, with time to mentally prepare himself for what was coming next. He was suddenly the one poor guy in a live shooter environment, on that precise day, and he was not expecting it in the slightest. Do you have the slightest idea how long it takes a normal brain to catch up with that kind of thing?

He was law enforcement, not special forces. It's a bad day if we want a key skill in law enforcement to be 'really good at shooting people'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 7929
Mayhem wrote:
moby wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
moby wrote:
So considering the above, is it a good idea to arm Teachers and rely on them to act 'as instructed'?
Do they spend a day a month at the range?
What if it is one of the teachers that does the shooting?

Going down this path is just stupidity. Even bringing in reliable 'guards' is a slippery slope. A guard worth his/her position is not going to work for peanuts, and is not going to be sharp without continued training. There are going to be better paid jobs for anyone trained and able to do this to the required standard so either the costs are huge or the standards are low or the turnover is so high as to be untenable.


I do not believe that arming the teachers should even be considered tbh. A teacher has an emotional connection with their students and would hesitiate to fire upon another person they know/love. There are alot of factors to consider. Cost of training (who would pay for this), how much training would "qualify" a teacher to certified for such a situation? What happens if a teacher opens fire on a threat but hits a innocent student? (I saw one news clip on the tv and a principle of a school was doing a training with a fire arm and he shot the wrong target. He was then asked what happens if that was a real innocent fatality and his reply was "the life of 1 innocent vs saving hundreds is worth taking the shot.") arming the teachers is a really bad idea imo.......

As for the deputy there is no one solution for this situation it can be debate many ways, For example

1) if sheriff deputy scot perterson received better training he would have perhaps had more confidence to take on the shooter and resolve the issue himself.

2) better gun laws would have prevented a 18yr old from owning an assault rifle.

3) if the countless warnings regarding the shooter Nicholas cruz were followed up in a more stringent manor this would have been prevented before it even started.

So many variables in this situation


1), If he was better trained and more confident the odds are he would have moved on to a better paid job.

2&3) are the same. How do you keep the freely available item from the wrong people and who decides who are the wrong people.

It has to be stopped at source and NO ONE should be allowed to carry that sort of weapon in a ready state.
Having said that, 2 16 round hand guns could be reloaded in a second so...


1) Not necessarily, but that is your opinion.

2) I agree on the fact that he should have been red flagged a long time ago and wasnt. As i stated previously alot of variables led to this. (Lack of follow up by many departments.)

But thats the whole debate on the constitution and how the regulations currently stand. People wanna have their cake and eat it too. A entire ban will not happen any time soon ( possibly never) As we witnessed just last week when the bill was brought to the florida senate. They wouldnt even debate it and they voted No by a huge margin.

Imo this is how it plays out new sanctions will be placed, age limits raised for assault rifles, magazine limitation placed nation wide, more stringent back round check searching for mental health (maybe even a doctor evalution/ sign off needed) and a waiting period will be placed on long guns.

Another tragedy will happen again and the cycle restarts.



Time for me to butt back out now, I tried not to get involved in the first place, but I'm too gobby :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:14 pm
Posts: 1677
It's easy. They should ban guns, problem solved.

_________________
Pathfinder


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5134
f1madman wrote:
It's easy. They should ban guns, problem solved.
lol, if only they thought like us!

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group