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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I think so. Time for them to be freed from the likes of Mercedes. They have the money. Lots of money. 3 engine suppliers is too few for F1. McLaren has talked about building their own engine in the past. It's time for them to plan for that when the turbo era starts.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:14 am 
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They built their own for the 12C, turbo 8 I believe. They have the tech and resources, it would be the logical "Dennis" approach if merc bailed. Could you imagine a McLaren-Ferrari? I know they used Peugeot and Renault engines in the past, but for a long time, they were the unofficial merc factory squad

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:28 am 
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The 12C engine began life as a Nissan Group C unit, then a company called Ricardo - who also did the transmission for the Veyron - basically re-designed it for road use by McLaren. They may have lots of money but even Mercedes went down the route of farming out F1 engine design to Ilmor and I feel McLaren would be better off forming a similar relationship with Ricardo.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:35 am 
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Heaps of dosh to take a punt on and at the end of the day, they're Macca. The sort of team engine suppliers will fall over each other in a rush to secure, which is why they have such sweet deal with Merc.

If they make their own engine it would cost sooooooooooooooooooooo much, and the end result might a world beating engine ... or peice of crap. Cheaper to buy one that isn't crap.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:26 am 
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If they were going to enter the sport as an engine supplier it would seem logical to enter in 2014 when the 1.6 turbo engines are replacing the current engines as (I suppose to a degree) it may be a much more level playing field even if some of the other engine suppliers will be way ahead in development of their engine. But as someone else has said it would cost them a lot to produce a competitive engine (like the Merc engine) and if Mclaren were in need of an engine most of the others pliers would be more than happy to offer them a deal/contract to use their engines.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:36 pm 
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I believe that McLaren will have to start building their own engines. They have a very serious road car program going on, and eventually have to do more than just take someone else's design and re-work it. And since 2014 will bring a completely new engine into Formula One, and since Pollock and PURE are stalling out.. maybe.. maybe.. it's time for Ron to think about taking over that operation? Buy out Pollock, and keep a lot of very good people (including Gilles Simon) that are in PURE.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Based on industry and scale, its more cost effective to buy in engines. The more engines a manufacturer makes, the less each units
cost as parts can be transferred, hence in a global recession we are only seeing 4 engine suppliers.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:40 am 
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robberred1993 wrote:
Based on industry and scale, its more cost effective to buy in engines. The more engines a manufacturer makes, the less each units
cost as parts can be transferred, hence in a global recession we are only seeing 4 engine suppliers.


So why not build their own engines and sell them on to some other teams to subsidise?

It would also mean they could then potentially have some other teams offering them favourable driving assistance on the track like people claim STR do for RBR...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I believe that McLaren will have to start building their own engines. They have a very serious road car program going on, and eventually have to do more than just take someone else's design and re-work it. And since 2014 will bring a completely new engine into Formula One, and since Pollock and PURE are stalling out.. maybe.. maybe.. it's time for Ron to think about taking over that operation? Buy out Pollock, and keep a lot of very good people (including Gilles Simon) that are in PURE.


Serious road program.... Hmmm. Not in comparison to Ferrari, Porsche, even Lambo or any other with a serious manufacturer with all the INFRASTRUCTURE behind then. They have a plan yup but it's early days.

There is no reason to gherkin money away and risk failure at this stage when they can buy old designs, re-jig and re-badge.... like all other niche manufacturers.

2014 will be more about the energy recovery side and that makes it worse when it comes to F1. McLaren have no background/expertise. Can't learn it in the timescale, can't buy it in sensibly and risky as f£(k. They'd be stupid to try.

PURE where nothing but a handful of chancers, ok Pollock then, relying on Gilles Simon's inside info. Renting Toyota's facilities/dynos, therefore no assets, Gilles info is out of date now, and failing to lure any F1 Teams as investors, which was their aim from the start....... NOTHING for McLaren to purchase.

McLaren need to concentrate on the racing side and either pay for Merc tech or preferably get Honda, even Toyota back in the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Jezick wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I believe that McLaren will have to start building their own engines. They have a very serious road car program going on, and eventually have to do more than just take someone else's design and re-work it. And since 2014 will bring a completely new engine into Formula One, and since Pollock and PURE are stalling out.. maybe.. maybe.. it's time for Ron to think about taking over that operation? Buy out Pollock, and keep a lot of very good people (including Gilles Simon) that are in PURE.


Serious road program.... Hmmm. Not in comparison to Ferrari, Porsche, even Lambo or any other with a serious manufacturer with all the INFRASTRUCTURE behind then. They have a plan yup but it's early days.

There is no reason to gherkin money away and risk failure at this stage when they can buy old designs, re-jig and re-badge.... like all other niche manufacturers.

2014 will be more about the energy recovery side and that makes it worse when it comes to F1. McLaren have no background/expertise. Can't learn it in the timescale, can't buy it in sensibly and risky as f£(k. They'd be stupid to try.

PURE where nothing but a handful of chancers, ok Pollock then, relying on Gilles Simon's inside info. Renting Toyota's facilities/dynos, therefore no assets, Gilles info is out of date now, and failing to lure any F1 Teams as investors, which was their aim from the start....... NOTHING for McLaren to purchase.

McLaren need to concentrate on the racing side and either pay for Merc tech or preferably get Honda, even Toyota back in the game.


Picking up on the highlighted comment - weren't Mclaren the first team to introduce KERS into their F1 car??

And didn't they build it themselves??

:?: :?: :?:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
Jezick wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I believe that McLaren will have to start building their own engines. They have a very serious road car program going on, and eventually have to do more than just take someone else's design and re-work it. And since 2014 will bring a completely new engine into Formula One, and since Pollock and PURE are stalling out.. maybe.. maybe.. it's time for Ron to think about taking over that operation? Buy out Pollock, and keep a lot of very good people (including Gilles Simon) that are in PURE.


Serious road program.... Hmmm. Not in comparison to Ferrari, Porsche, even Lambo or any other with a serious manufacturer with all the INFRASTRUCTURE behind then. They have a plan yup but it's early days.

There is no reason to gherkin money away and risk failure at this stage when they can buy old designs, re-jig and re-badge.... like all other niche manufacturers.

2014 will be more about the energy recovery side and that makes it worse when it comes to F1. McLaren have no background/expertise. Can't learn it in the timescale, can't buy it in sensibly and risky as f£(k. They'd be stupid to try.

PURE where nothing but a handful of chancers, ok Pollock then, relying on Gilles Simon's inside info. Renting Toyota's facilities/dynos, therefore no assets, Gilles info is out of date now, and failing to lure any F1 Teams as investors, which was their aim from the start....... NOTHING for McLaren to purchase.

McLaren need to concentrate on the racing side and either pay for Merc tech or preferably get Honda, even Toyota back in the game.


Picking up on the highlighted comment - weren't Mclaren the first team to introduce KERS into their F1 car??

And didn't they build it themselves??

:?: :?: :?:


Mercedes Benz High Performance Engines, now known as Mercedes AMG designed and developed the complete KERS system in partnership with A123 (batteries) and Zytec (MCU). Nothing to do with McLaren. Norbert Haug, I believe, commented it cost them 30mil when he wasn't happy about it being dropped for 2010. Merc have developed their own MCU this year as well, guessing even battery development is to specialized for them!

GROUP McLaren Automotive may have big backers in Bahrain but that doesn't mean it's sensible to throw 200-300mil at a risky in-house engine plant for road and certainly not for F1.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:47 pm 
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I don't see it happening.

The suggestion of Mac-Ferrari did make me chortle but surely if Merc falls through, Renault would be the way to go?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:55 pm 
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You'll see a Honda powerplant in the back of McLaren again before we see a McLaren engine. The other alternative is a rebadge like the TAG days....


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:54 pm 
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I think Mclaren should consider it if they have the funds for an expansion. it will benefit their road car program (although ICE development has become a bit stall over the years), the F1 team and keep everything in house as well as provide some income if they choose to supply others.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:00 pm 
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I think that if anyone, be it Mclaren or Red Bull, goes into the engine making business, they will need to produce a range of engines, not just F1 units. The units for a year would be built before the season was underway, and as we know, they are limited to numbers and mods, so what would the engine team do then?

The options would be to disband it, which makes it a dead end, or utilize it elsewhere. If they were able to get a contract to supply a spec series, I think it would be worth their while investing in it, otherwise it would have to be a tie up with someone.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Jezick wrote:

Serious road program.... Hmmm. Not in comparison to Ferrari, Porsche, even Lambo or any other with a serious manufacturer with all the INFRASTRUCTURE behind then. They have a plan yup but it's early days.

There is no reason to gherkin money away and risk failure at this stage when they can buy old designs, re-jig and re-badge.... like all other niche manufacturers.

2014 will be more about the energy recovery side and that makes it worse when it comes to F1. McLaren have no background/expertise. Can't learn it in the timescale, can't buy it in sensibly and risky as f£(k. They'd be stupid to try.

PURE where nothing but a handful of chancers, ok Pollock then, relying on Gilles Simon's inside info. Renting Toyota's facilities/dynos, therefore no assets, Gilles info is out of date now, and failing to lure any F1 Teams as investors, which was their aim from the start....... NOTHING for McLaren to purchase.

McLaren need to concentrate on the racing side and either pay for Merc tech or preferably get Honda, even Toyota back in the game.



I thought a lot of the new energy recovery stuff had been dropped along with the new aero rules. Something about helping the engine manufacturers.

As for Macca building their own.I don't see it the development costs are huge. Ferrari already have alot of that in place because of the road cars and because they have been doing it for decades. To start from scratch would cost a fortune with no guarantees it would be any better in the long run.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:44 am 
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I'm not sure if I posted this elsewhere in the forum, but apparently Honda are quite advanced in single cylinder testing of a 1.6l turbo motor for 2014 regs. I want to get excited but Honda have a history of not taking motors past the 'experimental' stage, even when the results have been promising.

I keep hearing that at least 1 Japanese manufacturer will be (re-)entering F1 in the near future. An engine manufacturer would be a good way to go........ ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:11 pm 
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HyperSlide wrote:
I'm not sure if I posted this elsewhere in the forum, but apparently Honda are quite advanced in single cylinder testing of a 1.6l turbo motor for 2014 regs. I want to get excited but Honda have a history of not taking motors past the 'experimental' stage, even when the results have been promising.

I keep hearing that at least 1 Japanese manufacturer will be (re-)entering F1 in the near future. An engine manufacturer would be a good way to go........ ;)

Let's hope that is how it stays too. Too many car manufacturers entered during the 2000s, then pulled out when the economy took a nosedive. Best to leave it to the garagistas and supply them with engines. Beside Ferrari, few have managed prolonged success in the sport, but many have through engine deals.

As for McLaren, they would be taking a huge risk building their own engine. As Ferrari have found in the past if your engine doesn't perform, you have to keep working on it. At least McLaren could have walked away from Mercedes at any point in the last almost twenty years if they felt there was a better deal elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Think they'd have a disadvantage with less experience since there's no ongoing development allowed, they'd have to get it right to begin with, or else have a locked-in disadvantage. And a new-engine opportunity comes along rarely.

If I were them I'd be leery of trying it. Even Mercedes, the V-10 and V-8 were originally from Ilmor badged as Merc, and also the Renault V-10 and V-8 were from someone else, forget who but think it started with M.

So of the recent engines (V-10's and V-8's), only Ferrari, Honda, and Toyota designed and built their own, AFAIK.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Atleast from the looks of it , it seems like they are slowly planning to get into manufacturing engines. Their P1 road car engines were done with Riccardo. But as mention earlier, its still a risky move for them, as a lot of investment will have to be put in along with R&D. Maybe just maybe a few more years down the line they may

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:57 am 
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If Macca were to start building their own engines, my guess is it would be for their road cars first. Surely it would be easier to design an engine that has a sensible RPM limit and can be serviced and fettled every couple of thousand k's compared to one that has to power the fastest things around left and right corners on earth, for 9 months, without being rebuilt?

Of course I am in no real position to make an educated statement on the matter, just my thoughts.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:42 am 
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No, I think that would be a seriously bad idea. It is difficult enough to build the chassis with which they are struggling this year. How many teams have been successful at that? Just Ferrari and Renault, and only Ferrari consistently. Toyota, Honda, and BMW tried and failed and those are companies that are competent engine builders for a very long time. With Merc now having their own team, perhaps McLaren should find a new supplier that will focus on them; hopefully Honda will come back, but certainly I don't see them building their own.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:18 pm 
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For the road car the new Hv 6 F1 engine could find its way into the GT but in the longterm they will be looking for a UK/Euro based development partner.


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