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 Post subject: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:37 pm 
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I would really like to see self-driving real F1 car. Would it be faster than driver over 1 lap. Would it be able to race with other cars on track and avoid crashing?

Unfortunately Google won't be doing it:
Quote:
Update Apr 1, 10:05 a.m.: As you probably guessed—no, Google Racing isn’t real. We were really happy to work with NASCAR on this April Fools' joke. The technological advancements this sport has made in the last decade are impressive and while we won’t be providing self-driving cars to compete in the races, we look forward to working together with NASCAR in the future on projects like their YouTube channel. What better way to drive change?

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/ ... ascar.html

But there was some other project:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/augu ... 81312.html

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:47 am 
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Did top gear not do a back to back with A touring car driver vs a self driving car but refused to tell you the outcome on lap times?

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:31 pm 
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NickPriest wrote:
Did top gear not do a back to back with A touring car driver vs a self driving car but refused to tell you the outcome on lap times?



More importantly....why???????

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:25 pm 
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I've been in one of the new Focuses which parks itself and automatically slows down and speeds up relative to traffic and vehicle proximity. It's pretty scary. I love that my car is relatively 'old' (2001) - in as much as although its got traction control and ABS. You still have to *drive* the car!
Technology in cars is scary, what the Management System can do and calculate in milliseconds and then respond within the same amount of time is breathtaking. Couple seemless shift, GPS Navigation and everything in a modern car with the sensors for tyre condition, inflation level, break temperatures, environmental conditions.

If it were a self driven car, it would execute a lap perfectly, or as close to perfection with an imperfect car (since mechanical is human engineering it will always be prone to errors).


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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:44 pm 
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I reckon on a clear track, a 'self driven' car could indeed beat the driver.

In a race however, the driver would win.
There are too many split second decisions taken with so many parameters to take into account, I don't see that sort of technology available for some time.
AI is not quite far enough to adequately make up for driver's instinct. .
The aero issues the cameras and/or other sensors would cause gives the self driven car another disadvantage.

In road cars it will evolve more and more though.
Slipstreaming into highway lanes etc is the not too distant future but for F1 it's quite a different story.

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:10 pm 
It's inevitable that technology is taking over driver chores. You can get sensors that turn the windshield wipers on when they sense water, automatically dim high beams, and even alert the driver when another vehicle is in the blind spot. Some technology, such as GPS navigation is priceless while winshield wiper sensors are overkill for the lazy.

But many different corporations are taking on this challenge, I was fascinated by the DARPA Grand Challenge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge

But the debate on driver aids in racing is one that will live on most likely forever. And since day one of the horseless carriage, driver aids have slowly crept into the scene. I wonder how many remember having to advance the spark, or using the choke when the engine is cold?

But when it comes to competition, we draw lines to define the sport, and as long as it's driver against driver, let him be the one controlling the steering wheel, gas and brake pedals.

And personally, I believe we can make a vahicle lap as quick as a human, but not over an entire race distance. There are just too many variables.


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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Once they had all the optimal data (max speed and best line through corners) the self drive car would be quicker over one lap and over race distance (but only if run as a time trial)

The controlled car would never exceed the max speed to need to make adjustments (it would be like running on rails) but in a race situation with wheel to wheel racing the computer probably couldn't make the split second calls needed

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:28 pm 
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I don't think the computers would have problems with split second calls. Even trained F1 driver wouldn't be able to match computer reaction time.

The problem with self driving road cars is no the computer, but human involvement. A year ago or so the Google self-driving cars had only one accident and it happened when driver took over the control. All kinds of warnings will just cause confusion and won't help driver. Many pilots when they take over the plane from autopilot are just confused of what is going on and may cause an accident. Imagine that your car is driving in windy area and computer is making all tiny adjustments, then driver takes steering wheel is not immediately aware of wind. The car may go off the road quickly. Not to say that computer doesn't make mistakes, but people may just be too confused to react correctly in critical situations where computer makes mistake.

The other issue is that computer with extremely quick reaction time may for example driver few meters from other car on motorway. that can be solved by adjusting computer to drive within human limits. I guess on race track drivers drive on absolute limits so it wouldn't be big issue.

Another thing with self driving system is that commuter may be making systemic correction, because for example the wheel is getting puncture. Computer will cope with it, but after some time it may not be able to correct the direction anymore and the we have an accident. Similar issue can happen with tires going off in F1 car. Driver may just be aware of that, while algorithms may just suddenly fail. Some autopilots in planes failed because of that. You can't predict everything. Because of that and may other reasons the self-driving road cars shouldn't be sold. They should be rented and serviced only by qualified personnel.

Generally the car would be able to drive with other cars on track and be faster than real driver, but I guess it may lack the ruthless that for example allowed Massa to overtake Senna(?) near the wall in Singapore. The other issue is that computer may confuse other drivers who will cause an accident and crash himself and computer powered car. I'm just trying to explore the idea and I don't think that in a long run drivers will ever compete with computer. At least not in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Maybe in the future but not now. There are too many variables and certainly not everything can be measured correctly by an automatic car driven on the edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Just seen this test
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20165345

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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:17 pm 
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on a different prospective, who would watch a race between self driven cars?


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 Post subject: Re: Self drving F1 car
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:55 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
on a different prospective, who would watch a race between self driven cars?

One race=yes
Whole seasons=no

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