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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 am
Posts: 1548
I just wanted to see if we could generate a good in depth discussion on the Mercedes team as a whole and see if we could think up objective improvements for the team. Areas I want to cover: (even though each area will cross over a great deal I thought it best to separate encase someone wants to go into greater detail.

We should also take the opportunity to agree the areas where we feel they are lacking also.

Race Strategy - eg, Given the current limitations and strengths of the Mercedes car I think its preferable for them to focus on getting into Q3 and then not setting a time in order to save tyres, fuel the cars light, stick to a delta for the lap that does not overall compromise pace, do not fight for position until after the final pit stop. It may seem a counter productive stratergy but I believe one that would work for Merc. I dont expect them to be winning but I expect top 5 finishes.

Tyres -

Balance -

Aero - eg the Platypus style nose that is designed to wash the air down either side of the nose cone, if this was a straight edge would it not generate a little more front down force across the front of the car. I understand it would be a minuscule amount but considering the Mercedes has balance issues (Heavy rear end) even a small amount on the front may help. I also feel the air washed from the nose cone would generate some unpredictable airflow from the components below this area.

Engine/Mechanical -

Exhaust -

I've offered my opinion on two of the areas but I do have to admit my knowledge is extremely limited, but I know for a fact there are some really smart people on here.

Also I do not work for mercedes lol, they are not that desperate yet!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:22 pm 
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I cant believe noone has replied to this topic yet.

Well, I am not that knowledgeable, but I think that they should do something crazy and use their weakness as a strength. In my opinion, they shouldn't try so hard to save tires during the race, but instead just slightly underfuel the car, race balls out and do one more pit stop than the rest of the field. This is the only way they can save face in my opinion. Right now they are performing like a backmarker during the race and that is both embarrassing and unacceptable.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Its a hard topic to cover but I have been looking into it on my own.

I think the main problems mercedes have is to do with how effective their conanda exhaust is in combination with the Fric suspension system.

I think if they set the car up with a front bias (this wouldnt work in 9 out of 10 cars) the combination will provide the car with a lot better balance, this is what both drivers are complaining about.

In terms of stratergy merc need to dump all quali setup from all 3 practice sessions and dedicate them to race pace,


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 am
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One thing just struck me, the front wing regulations specify that it can flex some small amount of mm's under load.

Does this include flexible elements on the wing?


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:38 pm 
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I dont think we have enough info to even speculate on it. The tyre fails if it is too hot, not hot equally, too cold, or over worked. Every one of those parameter depends on all the others.

If it is in its best operating window, it does not wear so quickly but moving it about to get the temp up wears it, even though it is the best way to warm it.

Heat dispersion helps it, but having too much heat in it ruins it. Not enough and it wont work.
Without intending to demean anyone at all, there are better brains than ours failing to find a solution when they have all the data to hand.

Dont stop speculating though, thats what these boards are for. We may even come up with the cure before the engineers, we will feel really smug then :D

I think the front end is too 'grippy' and it does not allow a little drift. This would warm the rears, and bias could be moved to the front, and have temp with out so much being scrubbed off.

Possibly a carry over from the Schuie era as he liked a planted front.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:21 am 
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After watching the Canada 2013 race im beginning to speculate mercedes problem is not to do with the tyres directly. Something seems to be fundamentally off with the car, it just seems heavy!

I was wondering if there having to run with more fuel compared to the top teams. When they do not suffer from tyre problems their pace is consistent but they are usually 3 to 7 tenths off in pace which could indicate a few kilos extra of fuel, the extra weight would also add to tyre wear.

Does the fuel tank have to be situated in the same place of every car or is it up to the team? if not could the location in the mercedes make the car unbalanced? When their is barely any fuel in the car it is a beast but adding the fuel weight seems to cause them lots of problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:47 pm 
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From what the technical expert journalists have been saying, the issue with Merc is that the tyres are getting too hot. This is allowing them to get up to operating temperature quickly hence fantastic for setting qualification laps. However, it is also causing them to wear quickly on the long runs and hence prevent the boys from pushing as much as they otherwise would.

As I understand, one thing Merc have recently modified the brake ducts to improve the cooling of the brakes to help prevent the heat being carried from the brakes to the tyres.

I did read somewhere else that the coander style exhaust on the Merc is causing the car to put excessive load on the tyre wall. This causes the tyre wall to deform and one result of this is the delamination that we saw of Hamilton a few races ago.

I imagine we will see the Mercs excel in the wet weather due to the cooler conditions and the slower running but we are as yet to see a full wet race.

Now, as to what can be done - i dont know. The weight distrubtion on these cars are fixed by the regs, so no playing around there.

I think the key for this season for Merc to improve the tyre situation will be the air flow and cooling vanes around the brakes and tyres. With it being linked to the diffuser and coander exhaust, i think its an inherent problem of the car and it'll never be as kind on its tyres as Lotus. With the European races coming up, it should be less of an issue now until later in the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Doesn't the Mercedes use a slightly different Engine than Mclaren and FI. And that it produces more torque that when accelerating out of a corner eats the tyre faster.

I will speak to my friends who I talked to about this a couple of years ago to ascertain whether this is correct or a figment of my imagination*, but if that was the case, Maybe Merc need to turn down their engines a bit.

*probably the case

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Good_Year wrote:
Doesn't the Mercedes use a slightly different Engine than Mclaren and FI. And that it produces more torque that when accelerating out of a corner eats the tyre faster.

I will speak to my friends who I talked to about this a couple of years ago to ascertain whether this is correct or a figment of my imagination*, but if that was the case, Maybe Merc need to turn down their engines a bit.

*probably the case

I believe all engines are the same for the factory works and customers. Merc may have decided to go for different software mappings which may affect its performace but the actual physical hardward is the same. Similarly, the engine Ferrari use is identical to the one Sauber and STR use and the one RBR use is the same as Lotus etc etc


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