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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:37 am 
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I posted in the other F1 forum how last season's standings would have looked had F1 stuck with the Top 6 points-scoring structure and Black_Flag_11 had a great suggestion of updating this season with the old points system. Obviously, I'm a little late to the party so this first post will be a long one, but I'll update after each race from now on.

Australia
1. Kimi Raikkonen - 10pts
2. Fernando Alonso - 6pts
3. Sebastian Vettel - 4pts
4. Felipe Massa - 3pts
5. Lewis Hamilton - 2pts
6. Mark Webber - 1pt

Malaysia:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 10pts
2. Mark Webber - 6pts
3. Lewis Hamilton - 4pts
4. Nico Rosberg - 3pts
5. Felipe Massa - 2pts
6. Romain Grosjean - 1pt

China:
1. Fernando Alonso - 10pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 6pts
3. Lewis Hamilton - 4pts
4. Sebastian Vettel - 3pts
5. Jenson Button - 2pts
6. Felipe Massa - 1pt

Bahrain:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 10pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 6pts
3. Romain Grosjean - 4pts
4. Paul Di Resta - 3pts
5. Lewis Hamilton - 2pts
6. Sergio Perez - 1pt

Spain:
1. Fernando Alonso - 10pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 6pts
3. Felipe Massa - 4pts
4. Sebastian Vettel - 3pts
5. Mark Webber - 2pts
6. Nico Rosberg - 1pt

Monaco:
1. Nico Rosberg - 10pts
2. Sebastian Vettel - 6pts
3. Mark Webber - 4pts
4. Lewis Hamilton - 3pts
5. Adrian Sutil - 2pts
6. Jenson Button - 1pt

Canada:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 10pts
2. Fernando Alonso - 6pts
3. Lewis Hamilton - 4pts
4. Mark Webber - 3pts
5. Nico Rosberg - 2pts
6. Jean-Eric Vergne - 1pt

Great Britain:
1. Nico Rosberg - 10pts
2. Mark Webber - 6pts
3. Fernando Alonso - 4pts
4. Lewis Hamilton - 3pts
5. Kimi Raikkonen - 2pts
6. Felipe Massa - 1pt

Germany:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 10pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 6pts
3. Romain Grosjean - 4pts
4. Fernando Alonso - 3pts
5. Lewis Hamilton - 2pts
6. Jenson Button - 1pt.

What that means for the Driver's Championship is this:

1. Sebastian Vettel - 56pts
2. Fernando Alonso - 39pts
3. Kimi Raikkonen - 36pts
4. Nico Rosberg - 26pts
5. Lewis Hamilton - 24pts
6. Mark Webber - 22pts
7. Felipe Massa - 11pts
8. Romain Grosjean - 9pts
9. Jenson Button - 4pts
10. Paul Di Resta - 3pts
11. Adrian Sutil - 2pts
12. Sergio Perez - 1pt
13. Jean-Eric Vergne - 1pt

Everyone else yet to score.

Constructors Championship:
1. Red Bull - 78pts
2. Ferrari - 50pts (2 wins, 2 second-place finishes)
3. Mercedes - 50pts (2 wins, 0 second-place finishes)
4. Lotus - 45pts
5. Force India - 5pts (Best finish: 4th)
6. McLaren - 5pts (Best finish: 5th)
7. Toro Rosso - 1pt

Everyone else yet to score.

In future posts, I'll compare with the current actual standings, but this first post is just to get up-to-date with current races. What I find interesting so far is that Jean-Eric Vergne would be out-performing (points-wise, at least) his team mate, but it's Ricciardo who's the more likely of the two to be "promoted" to Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Interesting, thanks. I see Rosberg ahead of Lewis, any other major changes?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:22 pm 
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And for the 9 6 4 3 2 1 system?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:58 pm 
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flyboy10 wrote:
And for the 9 6 4 3 2 1 system?

Honestly, I only ever remember it as 10-6-4-3-2-1. I didn't know it used to be 9, so I'll just be concentrating on the 10-point system.

Covalent wrote:
Interesting, thanks. I see Rosberg ahead of Lewis, any other major changes?


Nothing major - Di Resta & Sutil fall behind Button, but that's about it, aside from Ricciardo having 0 points under this system. In the WCC, Mercedes & Ferrari are level, but they pretty much are anyway.

I'm interested in seeing where Raikkonen & Alonso in particular finish up - they are the "consistency" drivers, if that makes sense, whereas Rosberg & Hamilton (well... potentially) are picking up the big points mixed with some poorer results, and are behind in the real standings.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Good to see another points system applied; looking at F1 from other/different measurements often provides better all-round views of what is happening.

I think your 10 points for a win is better than 9; wins are so difficult to come by, they should be worth far more than allowing some steady, high placings to score close or better. F1 is about speed primarily, not reliability.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Have you looked at applying the championship deciding points system of the late 70s and early 80s where they gave the same points (9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1) but only counted 4 out of 8 races in each half of the season?

Much more about the ability of the drivers to drive quickly when they had a good car than about reliability.

By splitting the season into two halves, it also rewarded consistency over the whole year rather than say winning the first 8 races and then not quite being reeled in (like Button).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:26 pm 
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flyboy10 wrote:
Have you looked at applying the championship deciding points system of the late 70s and early 80s where they gave the same points (9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1) but only counted 4 out of 8 races in each half of the season?

Much more about the ability of the drivers to drive quickly when they had a good car than about reliability.

By splitting the season into two halves, it also rewarded consistency over the whole year rather than say winning the first 8 races and then not quite being reeled in (like Button).


I'll have a read up on the scoring system and see if it appeals to me or not. My initial thoughts are that I find it strange to only count half the races, but I'll keep an open mind when I read it through.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:34 pm 
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CarlPotter wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
Have you looked at applying the championship deciding points system of the late 70s and early 80s where they gave the same points (9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1) but only counted 4 out of 8 races in each half of the season?

Much more about the ability of the drivers to drive quickly when they had a good car than about reliability.

By splitting the season into two halves, it also rewarded consistency over the whole year rather than say winning the first 8 races and then not quite being reeled in (like Button).


I'll have a read up on the scoring system and see if it appeals to me or not. My initial thoughts are that I find it strange to only count half the races, but I'll keep an open mind when I read it through.


Just to help you understand the reasoning behind not counting all the races, the drivers were allowed to drop their worst four results in both halves of the season so, if they had an engine failure or some other problem with the car, it didn't impinge on their championship chances just because of an unreliable car - because they had another four races that would count (and which they could win).

The interesting thing was that (theoretically) two drivers could both score maximum points for the season - something which is currently impossible.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:46 pm 
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One of the things bought up about this table in the thread it was suggested, was that the teams strategies would be different due to the differing points available.

Using the selective 4 races from each half of the season would have this same problem, only magnified. It entirely changes how the season would be approached by the teams.

Regardless this isnt the place to debate which table to use. But the place to come look at the table after each race.

Perhaps you should set up your own table using the 80's points method, id be very interested to see it as im sure many others would.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Well, they didn't have rules about numbers of engines or gearboxes for the year so the teams were able to go flat out at every race and accept that some races wouldn't produce points for the driver.

I think, when they employed this "selective races" points system, the teams for the WCC didn't share the same selective privileges as the drivers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Well, today's race is done and here's how it would have looked just a few seasons ago:

Hungary Driver Results:
1. Lewis Hamilton - 10pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 6pts
3. Sebastian Vettel - 4pts
4. Mark Webber - 3pts
5. Fernando Alonso - 2pts
6. Romain Grosjean - 1pt

Hungary Constructor Results:
1. Mercedes - 10pts
2. Lotus - 7pts
=. Red Bull - 7pts
4. Ferrari - 2pts

What that does to the overall standings is this:

Driver's Championship:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 60pts
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 42pts
3. Fernando Alonso - 41pts
4. Lewis Hamilton - 34pts
5. Nico Rosberg - 26pts
6. Mark Webber - 25pts
7. Felipe Massa - 11pts
8. Romain Grosjean - 10pts
9. Jenson Button - 4pts
10. Paul Di Resta - 3pts
11. Adrian Sutil - 2pts
12. Sergio Perez - 1pt
13. Jean-Eric Vergne - 1pt

Constructor's Championship:
1. Red Bull - 85pts
2. Mercedes - 60pts
3. Ferrari - 52pts (2 wins)
=. Lotus - 52pts (1 win)
5. Force India - 5pts (Best finish: 4th)
=. McLaren - 5pts (Best finish: 5th)
7. Toro Rosso - 1pt

When you compare this to the real standings, there are very few differences. Rosberg retains his lead over Webber despite not scoring, while in the real standings, there is a significant gap developing between the two. In the constructor's, Lotus are level on points with Ferrari, though the Italian outfit has a small lead in the actual standings.

The pattern that I'm seeing developing is that the points systems are giving us the same Championship contenders and those at the front are following the same pattern, but moving a step back to the midfield and "middle-of-the-road" points scorers, it's having a significant effect. The Force India's and McLaren's suffer massively under the old system, and one decent result for any of the teams below them would catapult them into 5th.

Should Hamilton continue in the current manner, he will be in with a real chance of winning the WDC in the real standings, but he has almost half the points of Vettel in the old system. That could prove significant, we will see.

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Last edited by CarlPotter on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:28 pm 
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It's about the same. Kimi within two race wins' points of Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Grosjean hit with a 20-second penalty, so I'll update this accordingly tomorrow... It's beer o'clock now ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Wow you update quickly, you make the rest of us look bad xD

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:04 am 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Wow you update quickly, you make the rest of us look bad xD

Honestly, I came online to check my Pick 10 score and remembered that I had this to do! :)

flyboy10 wrote:
It's about the same. Kimi within two race wins' points of Vettel.

Yep, at the top it is. But those that are scoring points consistently in positions 7-10 are really being hit hard this way.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:04 pm 
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So, Spa is done and dusted. Here are the results:

Spa:
1. Sebastian Vettel - 10 pts
2. Fernando Alonso - 6 pts
3. Lewis Hamilton - 4 pts
4. Nico Rosberg - 3 pts
5. Mark Webber - 2 pts
6. Jenson Button - 1 pt

Leaving the Driver's Championship looking like this:

1. Sebastian Vettel - 70pts
2. Fernando Alonso - 47pts
3. Kimi Raikkonen - 42pts
4. Lewis Hamilton - 38pts
5. Nico Rosberg - 29pts
6. Mark Webber - 27pts
7. Felipe Massa - 11pts
8. Romain Grosjean - 10pts
9. Jenson Button - 5pts
10. Paul Di Resta - 3pts
11. Adrian Sutil - 2pts
12. Sergio Perez - 1pt
13. Jean-Eric Vergne - 1pt

Constructor's Championship:
1. Red Bull - 97pts
2. Mercedes - 67pts
3. Ferrari - 58pts
4. Lotus - 52pts
5. McLaren - 6pts
6. Force India - 5pts
7. Toro Rosso - 1pt

So, other than Kimi Raikkonen holding a lead over Lewis Hamilton, there doesn't appear to be much difference at the moment. With Vettel looking dominant at Spa, it's a trend that could continue, but I am interested in seeing how the battle between McLaren and Force India pans out. It seems that the midfield teams are the ones most affected.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 am 
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I hate playing spoilsport, but there is a website which provides this information already:
http://f1-facts.com/statistics/regulations-comparison
It gives the points for any season under every points system used in the history of F1. However, until the 1980s, only a certain number of the best results for each driver counted towards the title, and this factor is disregarded in these rankings - all F1 races of the season are included in the final tally here.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:03 am 
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Ah, that is interesting. Much easier than typing it out every race!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:24 am 
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zoomsthru wrote:
I hate playing spoilsport, but there is a website which provides this information already:
http://f1-facts.com/statistics/regulations-comparison
It gives the points for any season under every points system used in the history of F1. However, until the 1980s, only a certain number of the best results for each driver counted towards the title, and this factor is disregarded in these rankings - all F1 races of the season are included in the final tally here.

Interesting that the current system is the only one that has Lewis ahead of Kimi.

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