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 Post subject: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:34 pm 
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I posted this idea in a discussion in the main forum, but figured it merited discussion here.

The 2014 regulations are introducing turbo engines, which means that all the cars are now equipped with a powerful suction device. It's a suction device they have full control over too, as they control it independently with a MGU. This leads to a very interesting possibility - can it be used to create an aerodynamic advantage?

The regulations state that the air intake must be located behind the front of the driver's cockpit opening, more than 500mm ahead of the rear wheel centre line and no closer than 200mm to the floor.

This means it can't be placed behind the rear wing or diffuser to suck air over them. However, it could be used to suck air over the front wing.

While, they can't put the intake directly behind the front wing (because it would forwards of the cockpit), they could it as far forwards as the regulations allow, to suck air from the space between the front wheels. This would then have the effect of lowering the pressure under the front wheels and thus increasing the airflow over the front wing. They would be able to control the suction from the turbo using the MGU-H

The regulations permit two external inlets to the engine, so they could be placed either side of the cockpit, as obviously they can't run the tube through or under the driver.

The only negative, aerodynamically speaking, I can think of this is that it could potentially limit the airflow going to the diffuser, however I am sure this is something that could be controlled.


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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I posted this idea in a discussion in the main forum, but figured it merited discussion here.

The 2014 regulations are introducing turbo engines, which means that all the cars are now equipped with a powerful suction device. It's a suction device they have full control over too, as they control it independently with a MGU. This leads to a very interesting possibility - can it be used to create an aerodynamic advantage?

The regulations state that the air intake must be located behind the front of the driver's cockpit opening, more than 500mm ahead of the rear wheel centre line and no closer than 200mm to the floor.

This means it can't be placed behind the rear wing or diffuser to suck air over them. However, it could be used to suck air over the front wing.

While, they can't put the intake directly behind the front wing (because it would forwards of the cockpit), they could it as far forwards as the regulations allow, to suck air from the space between the front wheels. This would then have the effect of lowering the pressure under the front wheels and thus increasing the airflow over the front wing. They would be able to control the suction from the turbo using the MGU-H

The regulations permit two external inlets to the engine, so they could be placed either side of the cockpit, as obviously they can't run the tube through or under the driver.

The only negative, aerodynamically speaking, I can think of this is that it could potentially limit the airflow going to the diffuser, however I am sure this is something that could be controlled.



I was thinking something similar but concerning under the car.

It is going to be dragging, what(?) 300ltr of air a min(miscalculation maybe?)which would be quite a depression, but this is at max rpm, where it would be least use.


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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:15 pm 
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moby wrote:
I was thinking something similar but concerning under the car.

It is going to be dragging, what(?) 300ltr of air a min(miscalculation maybe?)which would be quite a depression, but this is at max rpm, where it would be least use.

Yes, I was also thinking about 'fan car' copy sucking air from under the car like they used to. Hmmm. What if turbine is always run at max speed but when it delivers too much air some opening lets a bit of it to escape? Perhaps a pipe leading to exhaust so nothing suspect is seen at first?


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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:59 pm 
Using engine turbo suction to enhance aerodynamics is a positive thought, but it must be balanced between aero gains versus negative engine performance drawbacks. One huge reason why designers place the engine air intake above the driver's head is that it provides a clean and cold intake path for the engine. Anything less and the engine will probably suffer some form of performance loss.

These days the engine is an almost forgotten component, buried beneath bodywork and quite similar to everyone else. But this is the heart of the beast, and must be given careful design priority. It starts with the intake, and that cannot be compromised.


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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Interesting idea but...
Surely if they were calling the use of the engine to blow air to seal the diffuser a movable aero device then this would be treated the same.

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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:45 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Interesting idea but...
Surely if they were calling the use of the engine to blow air to seal the diffuser a movable aero device then this would be treated the same.

No, this never got outlawed. They changed the regulations regarding the positioning of the exhaust to make it more difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: "Sucked" Front Wing
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:29 am 
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It might not have been the concept itself that was outlawed but using the engine as an air pump for aero reasons when off throttle was. Which is why throttle maps have to have some relationship between pedal position and fuel delivery now and there was that whole deal last year about Red Bulls maps.

From this page on the F1 website from 2011.
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/6/12186.html
Quote:
Why does the FIA want to clampdown on off-throttle blown diffusers?
The FIA has argued that the car’s exhaust system is there to exhaust gasses from the engine. It doesn’t do that when a driver is off the throttle and teams are now using it to instead influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car, something the FIA believes infringes Article 3.15 of Formula One’s technical regulations, the final part of which states that ‘any car system, device or procedure which uses, or is suspected of using, driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited’. This clause was introduced for the 2011 season with the primary aim of outlawing F-ducts.

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