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They are the most dirty team in the paddock as well. I wouldn't miss them.

That's really cute. After Ferrari, the most "corporate" team on the circuit is, yeah, McLaren, who are now trying to imitate Ferrari, with their road cars that look like they came out of a Hot Wheels package. Fairer distribution of commercial revenue, well, it helps that Ron Dennis, who went on a crusade to drive Minardi out of business, is out of the sport now. The cigarette money was originally brought in by Lotus and from a certain point of view the current McLaren team was founded by a cigarette company, when you consider that Marlboro orchestrated the takeover of McLaren by Dennis' Marlboro Project Four. You may also recall that Ferrari didn't put non-technical sponsors on their cars until very recently. There would be no less animosity, politics and bullshit, but there would, as you say, be no Luca di Montezemolo.

I think what has damaged the sport more than anything else, aside from Bernie Ecclestone, has been the emphasis on aerodynamics over the last 40 years, which has made close racing more difficult and sent design costs skyrocketing. It's arguable that it's had an impact on road cars, but only to a certain extent; I don't think you'll be seeing front wings and diffusers on your Ford Focus anytime soon. So yeah, anti-Ferrari rants are cute, but often lack real substance.

Sports car racing would welcome Ferrari back, given how mind-numbingly boring it's become, one manufacturer dominates each series because it's hardly worth the others' while to pour money into races that don't mean too much anymore.

...
Did you take your pills today, amico? :/ You're probably tired of hearing this, but it would be a lot easier to take your posts seriously if you could make them a little... more... coherent.

Would F1 survive the loss of Ferrari? Certainly yes.

Would F1 be a better sport without Ferrari? No way, and I struggle to understand how people can think the other way round.

F1 has already experienced a similar loss: Lotus (the real one, not the rebadged current Lotus team), a top team that was every bit as political and alledgelly cheater as Ferrari, as well as reputed for producing dangerous cars. For twenty years F1 was mostly Lotus vs. Ferrari vs. others, just as it has been mostly Ferrari vs. McLaren vs. others for the las thirty years. Both were sports car manufacturers whose cars were directly linked to racing. Both had strong personalities at their respective helms. Did F1 survive after Lotus? Yes, and with better health than ever. Do F1 fans miss Lotus? Well, the fact that two teams have been legally fighting for the "Lotus" name 25 years after their last win should provide an answer...

I've made it easier for you to understand= ho reso più facile per voi capire. I would have thought that you would have been able to comment on some of the post at least, unless of course you know i'm correct.
There again i don't think you wanted to because you know you don't have any room to manoeuvre. You basically stated that Ferrari is everything. I replied no they are not.
OK? easier?
Stating that peoples opinion is "really cute" as you have to Balibari is a way of belittling the things they say or write. Maybe in an effort to a) attempt to get other people (other Ferrari fans) who read this forum on your side and b) to belittle or attempt to bully the people who objectively disagree with you into shutting up!
In a less beligerent world i would agree with Balibari, however people like you bring out the worst in me because of the blind faith and stupid comments you make.
One of the biggest silly comments is that McLaren are trying to emulate Ferrari. They are not. They are bettering them! They do not have a multinational auto maker shovelling money into new wind tunnels and paying wages etc etc. No, of course Ferrari pays it's own way. Of course FIAT don't bankroll them and of course Ferrari only make road cars to go racing, no they go racing to sell road cars thats FIATS, Lancia and Alfa Romeo and a few Ferraris. Just the same as the watch makers who make £3000 watches and £299 watches.
Ask an adult to read it to you! it's marketing. TAG Heuer Make a £3500 watch, give one to Jensen and one to Lewis an sell hundreds of £300 watches.... Jeez!!!
Why do i dislike them so much? Because they do things like changing gearbox seals with scant regard for other competitors. Why don't the other competitors complain? They cannot afford to !
You need to look at the bigger picture, but you won't because it's too difficult, there is reward but to be honest it's nice and cosy in red club Ferrari world so why bother......
By the way, I don't dislike anything about FIAT group spa. other than the attutude of those working at Ferrari and their attitude to F1 and the other teams in F1
Ciao amico!

Mate, you sound like an arrogant teenager, who thinks he's winning the argument.... i wouldn't be too happy if someone wrote like that to me.
As I and a few others have said, the only thing that matters is that F1 and Ferrari has a mutual need for each other and that both is much better off together. Through their global brand they bring more money to the sport than any other team, and that's just reality.
You say you don't like Ferrari's "dirty tricks", but i wouldn't exactly call the other top teams saints in that matter, they are neither better or worse than Ferrari.

I'm quite young (in my 20s) so I don't hold that passion for Ferrari that lots of older people do.

The o/p asked
Some people, actually probably most people on here seem in complete awe of Ferrari, Ferrari are more worthy, Ferrari are the best team in F1 Ferrari have been in the sport from the very beginning, well actually they have not!, i'm saying i don't like them, i don't look at them and say wow Ferrari! Because if they were as good as some people say they should not need the questionable (at best) ethics. The gearbox seal and the yellow.... no, no! green flag incidents, to name just two are totally pathetic. This is FERRARI, Yeah i know and look at the levels they stoop to to attempt (and FAIL) to beat Red Bull, a drinks manufacturer. It's laughable, but then so was the spygate scandal. I firmly believe that *** **** knew all about that one long before Stepney walked out of the gates with the paperwork. No i can't prove it but one of the 4 guys involved or someone from ***** will no doubt one day say something. look at grand prix dot com 19473. Top team? Nah, a complete joke? no, not at all but why anyone should treat them like a christian would treat the holy grail really is totally beyond me. So if i come across as a ranting arrogant teenager, i am honestly quite sorry but then so be it! I am bothered but to be honest i feel it needs saying to represent an opinion contrary to the opinion of the herd (of sheep..... Baaa!) and for fairness and because there are not too many who do seem bothered to look at the bigger picture or to read between the lines it should not mean that organisations or companies involved should be able to get away with things unnoticed which i may consider wrong so i feel i am quite correct to point out certain short comings at certain times.
In hindsight i should have stated in my first paragraph that, yes Formula 1 would be worse off without Ferrari, short to medium term without doubt but long term? Hmm, that would depend partly on what Ferrari did next maybe. However other teams such as McLaren? no, not really, Lotus? no, not at all. Williams? no not at all. With the exception of McLaren none of these teams would be missed for more than a couple of seasons at most.....Anyhow it's never going to happen. It's my view and my opinion and it's partly based on the sheep who call themselves Ferrari fans. Yes i know it's a little childish, churlish, immature and if you like mostly badly written but i also know most folks will just label me as a hater so sod it. Sadly for some of you on here i too am allowed an opinion (opinions are like ar*e holes, especially where i'm concerned i hear you say?....yeah ok, thanks!)
Ciao, Forza.............someone else!
Sorry!

Oh what an annoying style of writing. Rude and difficult to read, so a real joy.

Hi Covalent, If you can't read it or you don't like it don't have to read it. You have a choice much the same as anyone else. I have an opinion and a right to express it.
I would however like to know why you think it's rude and why you are having difficulty reading it?

Hi Covalent, If you can't read it or you don't like it don't have to read it. You have a choice much the same as anyone else. I have an opinion and a right to express it.
I would however like to know why you think it's rude and why you are having difficulty reading it?

Can't stand Ferrari wouldn't be sad to see them go.

So what? Many fans would be sad. Ferrari fans are important part of F1, because there are many Ferrari fans.

Year cos Schumacher constantly took Hill off didn't he?!

Of course you're entitled to an explanation. I find the style rude and arrogant because you're basically laughing at every other statement you're arguing, and it's hard to read mostly because of the lack of paragraphs.

I'm actually a Williams fan i just respect other teams, like red bull i think the dominance they have achieved so soon after being established is remarkable, but people are so quick to slag teams off.
as for your of course Ferrari are the most successful they have been in it longer, then notts county should be the most successful football club.

people keep bringing up red bull being a fizzy drinks company so what where the money comes from? Not many on the grid make their money from selling cars so what does it matter if its a drinks company, airliner, car company or a porno company what matters is they are in the sport to compete against the most competitive teams in the world?

as for red bull being legal i didn't say it wasn't i said people called it different things but had the points they had won with their cars in that condition been invalidated Alonso would have won the title.

yes the gearbox at austin wasn't great but like red bull was within the rules, yes it effected others but so did Schumacher letting vettel through at brazil and they aren't even in the same team.

Wow, someone thinks the sun shines out of his pickle...

Back on topic, which team has the most WCC crowns? How about WDC? You know, I'm sure veemax will be desperate to prove me wrong here, but I'm pretty certain Ferrari are somewhere near the top of both of those lists. THAT is how they are the greatest team in F1, and I've never been a fan of them before someone says I'm biased.

Well if you divide the number of years in the sport by the amount of WCC and WDC crowns nothing is close to Red Bull.

Wow, someone thinks the sun shines out of his pickle...

Back on topic, which team has the most WCC crowns? How about WDC? You know, I'm sure veemax will be desperate to prove me wrong here, but I'm pretty certain Ferrari are somewhere near the top of both of those lists. THAT is how they are the greatest team in F1, and I've never been a fan of them before someone says I'm biased.

O/P was talking about the team really. orbthef1fan merely gave his opinion, which is that he can't stand Ferrari and he would not be sad to see them go.

Oh.......{ furrowed brow, sigh, eyes to the right } Yeah, once was enough for some of us though.
Every other? Maybe even more than that! I will try to edit for you quite shortly. If that's all you have to complain about then i'm laughing!
I did say i was done here, obviously i'm not so.......
Really? So Notts county have done what exactly to create an image or to actually get people to go to Meadow lane to watch them play? Which top players have they enlisted the services of? When did they ever go on a decent cup run? Did they ever do anything other than lend Juventus a few shirts a few decades ago? Cloughie and Forest well now your taliking but that was the red end and a few years after! You what? Old Big head was the best manager i've ever seen in this country!!!!!

I think Montezemolo or some other muppet from their squad first said it as a detrimental comment about the greatest team in F1
Why do you feel you (or anyone else) has a right to say that the cars were " in that condition" like they were legal but only just?
or like because Ferrari didn't think of it then it's not fair or it's cheating? points invalidated? What ever gives anyone the right to assume that the points Red Bull earned should be invalidated, by definition you are saying that there is a questsion over the way the points were earned! Fianlly He (Alonso) didn't because they (Red Bull) were not cheating and he Fernando Alonso and the Ferrari F1 team) were not worthy even with the gearbox seal change and the constant complaining about everyone else Alonso was on the radio about every other weekend (Hamilton mainly) they were simply not good enough.

It's a sham! This is Ferrari, the " greatest team in F1" Except they are not! Red Bull are!

Well if you divide the number of years in the sport by the amount of WCC and WDC crowns nothing is close to Red Bull.

Wrong, if you divide the number of years in the sport by the amount of WCC and WDC crowns, Brawn GP is very obviously the best team ever, with 100% success on WDC and 100% success on WCC. However, both Brawn GP and Red Bull Racing were/are rebadged iterations of previous teams: BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes or Stewart/Jaguar/RBR. If we compare the success ratio of those two teams on the long run, along their different names, with Ferrari's, I don't think it's any better.

That said, some may agree that Ferrari is the best team ever, some may not but what is simply ridiculous is to pretend that Ferrari is NOT one of the great names in the History of motorsport and an integral part of F1 History.

Wrong, if you divide the number of years in the sport by the amount of WCC and WDC crowns, Brawn GP is very obviously the best team ever, with 100% success on WDC and 100% success on WCC. However, both Brawn GP and Red Bull Racing were/are rebadged iterations of previous teams: BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes or Stewart/Jaguar/RBR. If we compare the success ratio of those two teams on the long run, along their different names, with Ferrari's, I don't think it's any better.

That said, some may agree that Ferrari is the best team ever, some may not but what is simply ridiculous is to pretend that Ferrari is NOT one of the great names in the History of motorsport and an integral part of F1 History.

:lol:
I have to admit, when I first started reading this thread I was laughing my donkey off at the ignorance of F1, F1 history, and Ferrari being posted, usually by some whose vast knowledge of F1 starts with the mid 2000s. Of course, that is not unexpected as it is pretty much a monthly happening on the forum anyway.

I often wonder why it is that oh so many refuse to do their homework and actually LEARN about something before the speak out, but then, when I go back to my 25 years of teaching High School, it makes perfect sense. You see, there is a tendency to dismiss history and think that only today matters, or only what you personally have experienced. Why do research that might cause you to have to change your views, much easier to just put down what you don't know as unimportant. Like it or not, F1 did not start with Red Bull, or even with McLaren and Senna.

There are few things here in this thread that are really based on reality, and a whole bunch of crap that is merely based on personal biases, ie... intense dislike of Ferrari, intense support for "local" teams, etc. Some have made some legitimate cases (mostly on pages 2 & 3 after we got through the bullshit page) as to why Ferrari might get more "credit" than they deserve, and some have pointed out the simple fact that Ferrari has the history to back up the claim of them being critical to F1.

Why does Ferrari have such an elevated place in F1? As Tufty said, more WCCs & more WDCs than any other team. Higher marketing value than any other team. Higher world-wide recognition as a racing entity than any other F1 team. Larger fan base than any other team. and... yes, many drivers aspire to sit in a Ferrari seat as a part of their F1 career. You can make all the excuses you want, but those items are pretty much undeniable (except by some of our most fervent anti-Ferrari members, of course).

As I have pointed out before, We here in the forum represent only the most avid of racing fans, which in turn is only a very small part of the world population. More than that, this being an UK based forum, we also have a predominance of members from that country, and of course, they are as patriotic as the citizens of most countries. Oh, I know you will deny it, you will tell me for what is probably the 1000th time of the past 12 years of membership on this forum, how you are unbiased and totally fair in your assessments, but face it, we all have our biases, and to deny that only makes you look foolish. What we need to remember is that F1 is about much more than the few thousand F1 fans that belong to forums, we merely represent the most avid. We are dwarfed by less fanatical fans.

The point is, Ferrari is the face of F1. Not McLaren, not Red Bull, not Williams, not Renault, not Mercedes. Most of the world know who Mercedes is, but as a manufacturer. Most people know who Red Bull is, but a relatively small percentage know that they have been winning in F1 lately. The Williams recognition factor outside of the F1 fan and the UK, is almost non-existent. And McLaren? As much as I hate to tell you, they too suffer from brand recognition, though their two road cars (the F1 and today's sports car) are increasing their brand recognition. However, mention Ferrari and see what reaction you get among the populace. Fast sports cars and racing... and not necessarily in that order. The Ferrari logo is one of the most recognized automotive, if not the most, logo in the world. Thus that adds great value to F1 in the commercial sense. Whether it is the fans that attends the races, the fans who watch the races on TV or the fans that buy the clothing or promotionals, F1 benefits by Ferrari's participation. Yes, even the other teams get benefits from the Ferrari shirts that are sold. That is why they are so important to the financial aspect of F1.

Would F1 survive without Ferrari? Probably so, but it would be a different F1 than you see today... at least for a while. Would Ferrari survive without F1? No doubt. Ferrari is extremely healthy as a car manufacture, their name is made (yes in large part do to F1), but the name recognition is there, the Ferrari "mystique" is there. That is not going away if Ferrari quits F1. Besides, Ferrari will race, if for no other reason than to stay on top of technological developments.

Obviously, it is better for F1 if Ferrari stays, and better for Ferrari as well. And better for the forum, as some of you would be lost if you didn't have them to kick around!


Just a couple of previous comments to address...
Sabrina,
Williams and McLaren will warrant a larger share of the F1 historical monies as soon as they have more years in the sport than does Ferrari. Pretty simple really.

to whoever said.
"Team Lotus and Cooper F1 team have arguably done more for the sport than the team that Enzo created"... bullshit. Cooper was innovative, as was Chapman... and they deserve great credit for it, but to randomly dismiss 62 years of participation in F1, outlasting all other teams, including Lotus & Cooper, and helping to build the sport into what it is today... you can't just brush that aside.

and one of the most laughable of all...
"They would be no more missed than Williams, McLaren, Sauber or any other long standing team with the same name".
You just keep believing that... while the rest of the forum shakes their head in wonderment. Better than half of this forum could even tell you who Sauber's drivers were this year...

If F1 is soda, then Ferrari would be Coca-Cola I guess...

Make that a Campari soda.

my 25 years of teaching High School.

And McLaren? As much as I hate to tell you, they too suffer from brand recognition, though their two road cars (the F1 and today's sports car) are increasing their brand recognition.