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Setting a pit stop time would generate higher level of safety in the pits?
1. Yes 49%  49%  [ 24 ]
2. No 51%  51%  [ 25 ]
Total votes : 49
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 am 
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'Formula 1 teams are to discuss the idea of introducing a minimum pitstop time in an attempt to further improve safety'.

http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/f1-to-discuss-minimum-pitstop-time-78926

I had hinted in another thread that this could be a better solution than reducing the Pitlane speed limit as the pit crew won't need to be hasty & oversee something that they might've missed.

Safety 1st always in F1.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:54 am 
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Funnily enough, this idea sprang to my mind 30 seconds after Webber's wheel came off..

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:54 am 
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I'm all for it. A minimum of 1 second should do.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:55 am 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
Funnily enough, this idea sprang to my mind 30 seconds after Webber's wheel came off..


Good enough as long as we want safety in F1 at the highest level.

I had though a stop of 4 or 5 seconds would be enough. Maybe it's a little long.

As of now teams do anywhere between 2.5 to 3.5 seconds stops.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I'd set it at 4 seconds. Though I do think it'll take something away from it. I do love seeing them hook up the perfect pit stop in 2.2 or so seconds if it increases safety of those in the pitlane it's worth it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Hate it. F1 is a competition it is supposed to be about being as fast as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Well it will increase safety no doubt but at what cost to the entertainment and inter team battles. Dont get me wrong i agree with any safety improvements but if you look at just how many pit stops we have over a race weekend and how many times something actually goes wrong, im pretty sure 99% of the time everything is fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Can't see it happening, just because it is something that would impact the teams who produce the fastest stops more than it would the other teams, and so they'll be opposed to it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:20 pm 
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I like the idea, but mostly because it'll negate Lotus's crap stops compared to Red Bull's rocket stops. But i can see the safety aspect is a wise choice too. I have a feeling some members of the forum won't be happy though...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:38 pm 
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It should improve safety. I'd prefer that F1 used it's vast technology to create some kind of sensor that wouldn't allow the car to move until every wheel is fitted correctly, to be honest. A minimum pit-stop time will reduce the likelyhood of human error, but won't necessarily eradicate it. It's a step in the right direction, but it depends on what the minimum time is. Red Bull usually do stops in around 2.5 seconds or so? If it's at 4 seconds, for example, that 1.5 seconds extra wil reduce the pressure, sure, but is it significant enough to avoid mistakes? I'm not sure... But then, I don't want to see 10 second pitstops either, so finding a balance will be tough.

Or just put in a sensor as I suggested please, F1 guys - I'd like that :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:42 pm 
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I'd be more in favour of bringing back fuel stops. I know there'd still be risk and team might still have to pit for tyres and not fuel throughout the race but usually adding fuel would take longer than changing the tyres and so would take some pressure off the gun men.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:57 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Hate it. F1 is a competition it is supposed to be about being as fast as possible.


It's meant to be a motor race, not the fastest draw! Leave how quickly teams can change a tyre for some other competition and lets get the cars racing against each other on the track, not in the pit lane.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:58 pm 
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flyboy10 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Hate it. F1 is a competition it is supposed to be about being as fast as possible.


It's meant to be a motor race, not the fastest draw! Leave how quickly teams can change a tyre for some other competition and lets get the cars racing against each other on the track, not in the pit lane.


Its a team competition.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Hate it. F1 is a competition it is supposed to be about being as fast as possible.


It's meant to be a motor race, not the fastest draw! Leave how quickly teams can change a tyre for some other competition and lets get the cars racing against each other on the track, not in the pit lane.


Its a team competition.


Yes, a team motor race, not a team pit stop race. The teams play their part in preparing the cars. Strategic pit stops came a long time after the idea of racing the cars and, in my opinion, is a totally unnecessary part of motor racing with the exception of endurance racing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Allow pitstops, don't impose them. If we really want to see the mechanics racing, they could do that for a worthwhile charity on the Sunday morning; two laps of the track, pushing the cars.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Allow pitstops, don't impose them. If we really want to see the mechanics racing, they could do that for a worthwhile charity on the Sunday morning; two laps of the track, pushing the cars.


Agreed. I'd go a little further and make pit stops disadvantageous (with even lower pit lane speed limit) so that a team who doesn't stop at all in the race is more likely than one that does.

Sure, stop if you've got a puncture or a damaged nose but don't expect to use it as a strategy to gain an advantage. I don't want that kind of motor racing in F1.

It wasn't there when I started watching. I don't want it now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Dead set against it. Bringing back mid race re-fuelling would prevent wheels coming off but i much prefer the idea of slapping the teams down with massive disproportionate penalties for wheels coming off. Namely, black flag both cars in the race where it happens and then a 1 race ban for both cars


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Just bring back refueling.. Although that would have a far greater safety hazard of fire though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:22 pm 
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angrypirate wrote:
Dead set against it. Bringing back mid race re-fuelling would prevent wheels coming off but i much prefer the idea of slapping the teams down with massive disproportionate penalties for wheels coming off. Namely, black flag both cars in the race where it happens and then a 1 race ban for both cars


I think it's a bit harsh on the driver who hasn't had anything to do with it (they even have separate pit crews), but I see where you're coming from with it - the team as a whole should suffer - but I'd say it's a bit fairer to have the car involved black flagged and banned. Given that a wheel falling off usually means the end of that driver's race anyway, I'd black flag them and give a 2 race ban.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Bring back refueling. That'll fix it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:02 pm 
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mds wrote:
I'm all for it. A minimum of 1 second should do.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:10 pm 
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One wonders how the 1994 season would've ended up had they had a minimum time...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Leave it as it is, it has always been part of racing in F1. Train people to be more attentive when in or around the pitlane. I personally think it spices things up when a team makes a perfect stop in 2.5 seconds and the other makes a mistake and it takes them 5 or 10 seconds. It only means you lose track position and since you are faster anyway it will make you have to pass other cars on the race track.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I think the majority want to see the racing done on the track rather than the pits anyway (or a re-balance towards that), but at the same time I don't want to see even more contrivance.

Maybe if there were harsher penalties for pitlane incidents then the teams might adjust just how close to the limit of safety they are prepared to go to save a few tenths.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Probably safer but I don't want it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:42 pm 
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CarlPotter wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
Dead set against it. Bringing back mid race re-fuelling would prevent wheels coming off but i much prefer the idea of slapping the teams down with massive disproportionate penalties for wheels coming off. Namely, black flag both cars in the race where it happens and then a 1 race ban for both cars


I think it's a bit harsh on the driver who hasn't had anything to do with it (they even have separate pit crews), but I see where you're coming from with it - the team as a whole should suffer - but I'd say it's a bit fairer to have the car involved black flagged and banned. Given that a wheel falling off usually means the end of that driver's race anyway, I'd black flag them and give a 2 race ban.

They may be 2 drivers, but it is 1 team. And the pit crews are the same for both cars other than the tyre handlers - ie the jackmen, gun men and lollipop man are all the same for both stops

My other thinking about black flagging both and banning both drivers from the subsequence race was that it also turns into a financial penalty - can you imagine how the sponsors would feel if no cars were even running at the next GP?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:43 pm 
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It's typical F1 to overreact to an incident like this, granted it's in the name of safety but they always take it that little bit further than needed.

My feeling on this is if your going to enforce a minimum pitstop time you may as well do away with pitstops altogether. Because if everyone is doing the same (and with the tyres that we currently have, strategy variation is tiny), what's the point?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:01 pm 
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angrypirate wrote:
CarlPotter wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
Dead set against it. Bringing back mid race re-fuelling would prevent wheels coming off but i much prefer the idea of slapping the teams down with massive disproportionate penalties for wheels coming off. Namely, black flag both cars in the race where it happens and then a 1 race ban for both cars


I think it's a bit harsh on the driver who hasn't had anything to do with it (they even have separate pit crews), but I see where you're coming from with it - the team as a whole should suffer - but I'd say it's a bit fairer to have the car involved black flagged and banned. Given that a wheel falling off usually means the end of that driver's race anyway, I'd black flag them and give a 2 race ban.

They may be 2 drivers, but it is 1 team. And the pit crews are the same for both cars other than the tyre handlers - ie the jackmen, gun men and lollipop man are all the same for both stops

My other thinking about black flagging both and banning both drivers from the subsequence race was that it also turns into a financial penalty - can you imagine how the sponsors would feel if no cars were even running at the next GP?


Ah ok, I thought they had separate teams. I know they have separate mechanics and whatnot, so I just assumed they had separate teams.

And yeah, I get the 2 drivers, 1 team thing, but I reckon banning the "culprit" driver (for the want of a better phrase) for two races would be better. The team's sponsors would still be annoyed because they'd only be getting the coverage of one car. I wouldn't be too annoyed if both cars got banned, though; I agree with the principle of your post, I'd just prefer to see the unrelated driver allowed to race.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:10 pm 
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ahhh wtf is going on

standardised pit-stop times? can this sport become any more plastic


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:22 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
ahhh wtf is going on

standardised pit-stop times? can this sport become any more plastic

Can a sport consisting of 22 guys sitting in carbon fibre shells become more plastic?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:34 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
ahhh wtf is going on

standardised pit-stop times? can this sport become any more plastic

Can a sport consisting of 22 guys sitting in carbon fibre shells become more plastic?


;) thats my question haha


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Yes it would, but I dont want it.

Almost hit no on the poll by accident.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:19 pm 
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How would a minimum pitstop time stop what occured to the cameraman in the last GP? Won't they still be exiting the pitbox at the same speed?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:55 pm 
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No. When a car has a problem it is almost always stationary for more than 5 seconds already, the team will still rush to try and get it out asap and minimise the damage.....and fairy cakes will still happen

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:01 pm 
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I can see how this would be safer for a straight forward, no problem stop as it takes a little bit of pressure off the team and allows for a bit more care etc. But I can`t see how this would help in a situation where a problem has already taken the pit stop over the minimum time limit. Surely at this stage the team would be in `rush-panic-quick-bollocks-panic` mode as usual and just as likely to blunder into a premature release as they are at the moment. Voted yes anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:44 pm 
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I'm hearing so mich crap at the moment.
Minimum pit stop times.
Change this rule because of this and that.

Formula 1 is becoming too nanny stated.

Formula 1 has always and always be a dangerous sport.

People know the risks.

Of course we don't want to see a death in formula 1. But over the last few weeks. We've seen camera crews banned from the pit road. What was wrong with the last 60 years when camera crews were in the pit lane. It was a unfortunate accident. But this is a over reaction to a incident that probably won't ever happe. Again.

This is the only.tyre to.come off this year was webbers car
What next. A maximum speed limit of 150mph round the whole.circuit.

There has not been a serious incident with a tyre in the pit lane since 94 with a flying wheel as we did in germany.

It was a unfortunate incident.

Move on.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:49 pm 
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I'm hearing so mich crap at the moment.
Minimum pit stop times.
Change this rule because of this and that.

Formula 1 is becoming too nanny stated.

Formula 1 has always and always be a dangerous sport.

People know the risks.

Of course we don't want to see a death in formula 1. But over the last few weeks. We've seen camera crews banned from the pit road. What was wrong with the last 60 years when camera crews were in the pit lane. It was a unfortunate accident. But this is a over reaction to a incident that probably won't ever happe. Again.

This is the only.tyre to.come off this year was webbers car
What next. A maximum speed limit of 150mph round the whole.circuit.

There has not been a serious incident with a tyre in the pit lane since 94 with a flying wheel as we did in germany.

It was a unfortunate incident.

Move on.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 pm 
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^A minimum pit stop time does have its merits in that it reduces the amount the pit crews are pushing and therefore they're less likely to make the mistakes which cause incidents like this. Don't forget that since refuelling was banned, we've had four incidents where tyres have come off the car after a pit stop. Two of those were on track (Alguesuari and Webber at China in 2011 and this year) which is dangerous for the driver but also for his competitors, marshals and spectators: lest we forget the deaths of marshalls in 2000 and 2001 after being struck by tyres and debris off cars (albeit in different circumstances). And then in the pitlane we've had two incidents (obviously Webbers and with Rosberg at Hungary 2010) where, in both instances, someone has been hit by the runaway tyres. So call the FIA's concerns an overreaction but just remember where complacency has led the sport before... :-|

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:10 am 
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You know what will increase pit-stop times? Refuelling. Oh, it will also speed up the lap-times... well, there are side effects like everything else.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:23 am 
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I think things would become more automatic if they had a minimum pit stop time. Say it was 4 seconds and you get used to saying go after 4 seconds then you might just do it on autopilot. The problems tend to occur when its taking longer than normal anyway.

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