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Every time Seb wins people say it is because of the car Newey has designed, Seb does not get the full credit he deserves. Now I am not saying that Seb should be given all the credit but I feel that the driver and design team at RBR is overshadowed and Newey gets a little too much credit.

I know he is a great designer but he cannot and does not design the entire car. I think RBR have a dedicated Head of Aerodynamics or similar position overseeing their aero. There are hundreds or thousands of people that work on the car to make it fast but they do not get any mention by most fans. When the drivers win, they usually thank the team (at the factory) but fans almost always give Adrian Newey the credit.

Any sensible fan realises that RBR's success is down to a team effort. The credit doesnt just stop with SV, Newey, Horner but runs through all their engineering personnel, marketing and support staff. As was said by Schumi "You win as a team and lose as a team".

SV is great driver, Newey a great designer, Horner a great strategist but wins are down to RBR being a great team

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Night is a very dark time for me

I think fans give Newey himself too much credit. He has a team of very well educated and hard-working men and women at home helping to design the car with him, they barely get any credit. Newey can't do it all on his own and he doesn't guarantee success everywhere he goes.

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Winter is Coming

Not another one,

No Vettel isn't being given the credit he deserves but one day he will.

So for now his fans just need to sit back and enjoy him winning because one day in the coming years he will be one of the most highly rated drivers of his generation, if not all time.

But ive got bad news, that respect wont come from the years in which he wins, but rather the years in which he doesn't.

Before Vettel Newey's last title was 1999 WDC, till Vettel won the 2010.

He designed the 2000-2005 McLarens which could not win a title.

There was a very good article on Autosport as to why that was so

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/featu ... en-titles/

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I rely on Prost

I don't think fans give Newey more credit than he is due. We all know it is a huge team/money effort, but Imo Newey sees the big picture, the whole car, and manages to meld all staff and details together.

His record is phenomenal: the 1988-9 March, Williams 1991-1997 (longest run for a fastest car?) the McLarens from 1998-2006? now the Red Bulls from 2007-2013. Over 20 years in GP racing is exceptional for a designer.

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It depends which fans. I agree with everything POB say's, but some go much further.

For me he is the standout designer of the moment, and probably of the last 20-odd years. But is he any more than, say, a Gordon Murray? I don't know. But when talking about whether Vettel gets enough credit, ask yourself whether you believe he or Newey is the more important component in RBR's success. I rate Vettel but I'd take Newey over him by quite some margin, and I probably wouldn't say that about any driver/designer combo since Colin Chapman roamed the paddock.

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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus

This

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I think Vettel is an exceptional driver but the most important signing for Red Bull was Adrian Newey

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Yes I think Newey is given too much credit. Don't get me wrong, he is obviously one of the best technical minds in F1's history and it's no coincidence that the three major teams he's joined in his career have all gone on to win numerous titles. However Newey was FAR from the only high-profile recruitment that Red Bull made in their early years. A number of top technical people moved across to Red Bull from all the top teams, lured by Mateschitz's money, and as a result they now have the strongest team of engineers in the paddock.

If Newey went and moved to Caterham we wouldn't see them winning races, or even scoring points.

If he had finance yes he would. Quite easily. With current finance he would certainly improve the car a lot.

If Vettel went to Caterham?.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Will Vettel's "new" team operate with the new budget as well?

Name the other high profile recruitments because i must be somewhat lacking in my knowledge of F1 engineers

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Sorry I did mean with current finance and team structure. Obviously with a Red Bull-sized budget and with the ability to expand the team's technical department he'd probably replicate his successes from elsewhere.

If Vettel went to Caterham I don't see him scoring any points. Nor would Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen or a re-incarnation of Ayrton Senna.

Of course they do. The drivers are the stars of the sport, so they are often affiliated with most of the things that happen in the sport, for example Alonso being a super car developer, Schumacher single-handedly leading a team. It's understandable, they are the figure heads of the sport, the stars who represent the silent ~600 member staff behind the scenes to the world. Adrian Newey is a special case in a way that he's treated like a driver and even the more casual fan knows who he is. So just as the drivers get the credit from the engineers, mechanics and the co. Newey basically gets the credit of the entire engineering department. It's like giving Bill Gates credit of everything Microsoft did when he was a CEO. Also part of the reason for this exaggeration is the dislike towards Vettel: people want to think he's not that good so Newey has become the easy excuse to use.

But would you really take Alonso, Hamilton or Kimi over Newey either? I doubt.

Yeah, we can use Mclaren's for example.


I rekon Newey at Caterham with a Mclaren Budget would get wins and points quite easily.

I rekon Newey at Caterham with current budget would improve the car a lot. Odd point not out of the question.


I rekon Vettel at Caterham with a Mclaren budget would achieve the maximum the car allowed him, and consistently too. Could be WDC,odd wins,podiums or midfield.

I rekon Vettel at Caterham with current budget would achieve the maximum the car allowed him, and consistently too. Lapped.


You?

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Fair do's.


I agree.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Yep, I agree with your conjectures.

..... Ignore, mis -read your post.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Well so am I. It only tends to be the guys at the top of the organisational structure who ever get mentioned. The overwhelming majority work anonymously back at the factory. However I distinctly remember reading about the team's aggressive recruitment drive at the time.

However if you do want a couple of names then current head of aero Peter Prodromou followed Newey across from McLaren. Chief designer Rob Marshall also joined at roughly the same time (although I can't remember where from, Renault perhaps?)

No because none of the drivers can bring to the team what Newey does

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Newey has a huge history of making great cars, while Vettel hasn't got a history at all outside a Newey car. Take your own conclusions.

I think AN is a very good concept man and if given the time and money to explore that concept it can develop it to become unbeatable.

To many teams change direction every year or two just look at Mclaren

When he was at McLaren he was sidestepped to allow other talent to come through and that was a massive mistake.

What you have at RB is a team principle that had complete confidence in him along with a team owner that gave trust and money to make it happen. It took time and it payed off.

I just don't see Ferrari or McLaren being willing to start from scratch and wait years for success again.

Well.... Newey, Mercedes engine , McLaren and a very good driver wasn't enough in previous decade.

Newey gets far too much credit.

He's a great designer but it's no coincidence that Red Bull started to win when Vettel started driving for them.

but..... 2000, 2001, 2003(despite only being 3rd fastest car), 2005 mclarens were WDC/WCC conternders.

credits should be given to all engineers that syncs their work to make the best car possible. but with these so called "engine freeze" other engineers were sidelined and those aerodynamic genius were put to the hotseat to beat each other out.

engine freeze = engineers incharge of the engine can only do telemetry unlike before where they can waste unlimited tries to improve the engine.

no refuelling = master tacticians/strategists can only do tricks unlike before where they can do magic/miracles.

only the mechanical(minor role) and aero(major role) engineers are still very active nowadays. thats were newey's genius is recognized and not the other engineers. we can only see pit stop magics if they revert back to refuelling + no tire restriction(limit still applied and same goes with the compound choice decision by pirelli,)....pls dont get me wrong with that "no tire restriction", what I mean by that is you are free to choose want you want and not required to run both set of tires.

todays F1 cars are high explosive bomb with wings.

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Well your opinion. My opinion is that RBR struck a golden era when all parts fit together perfectly. Newey was/is the foundation of that. Lewis, Alonso and Kimi would also have won 4 wdc's in that team.

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There's far more scope for clever strategy calls now that refuelling has been banned.

True. But the way some people talk about Newey, you'd think that I could rock up in a Red Bull and win the WDC.

Wasn't the unreliability of the Mercedes engine the reason why McLaren didn't win in 2005?

Anyway it seems the gist of the article in this thread (to which i don't have access) is that Newey wasn't given full autonomy at Mclaren, i believe they didn't like the idea of star designers and being beholden to one person.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

Not this notion again?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
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2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

Wasn't the Newey's design and packaging philosophy, etc the source of McLaren's reliability issues in 2005?

I don't think Newey gets too much credit. The guy has won WDCs with six different drivers, he has won a combined 18 (soon to be 20) WDCs and WCCs since 1992. Colin Chapman won 13 total titles with 5 drivers. Newey has been in F1 for a similar number of years to Chapman. I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who says Chapman gets too much credit.

It's true that Newey's dominance was ended in 2000-2006, and he won very few races. But he was up against another genius, Rory Byrne, who had three greats alongside him - Brawn, Todt and Schumacher, as well as virtually unlimited testing and a special relationship with Bridgestone which was critical in the tyre war era.

And what happened soon after Ferrari lost all those people and those advantages? Newey dominated again just as he had done before 2000. I think that says something... That Newey's standard is so high, it took circumstances virtually unprecedented in F1 history for him to be toppled.

That said, I think people just refer to Newey's superiority when they are really referring to the superiority of the Red Bull car. I'm sure the Red Bull dominance can't be attributed solely to Newey. He surely has a great team behind him.

But the car counts for so much in F1. Even Hamilton in the Mercedes, or Alonso in the Ferrari... Those teams may not be fast enough to win titles but their drivers would not win races without competitive cars. All top drivers, not just Vettel, owe their success to their cars being quick. Button and Barrichello's contrasting fortunes during 2008 and 2009 should have taught everyone that you can take many drivers in F1 and win with them in the fastest car. That's just the nature of the sport.

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I don't follow F1 so I don't know what I'm talking about

Please delete this post, accidentally quoted instead of edited.

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I don't follow F1 so I don't know what I'm talking about

theres no chance you can extract supersoft's best with very heavy fuel on board. do a 4 stop of supersoft nowadays and the F1 world will be laughing at you. genuine undercuts were back in those refuelling days were you put less fuel + fastest compund tire to get ahead and to build a gap to compensate for the next earlier pitstop.

I wanna see newey designing super fast cars that are best at low fuel load.
I wanna see brawn doing those impressive calls once again.

let there be:
DRS (activate @ 0.5sec gap instead of 1.0sec)
choice to race with KERS or not
Refuelling ON
no tire usage restriction (makes pit strategy less predictable)
limited number of tires per weekend
solo Q3 qualifying runs on the fastest compund and minimum fuel load (running order 10th-1st of Q2), KO system still applies on both Q1 and Q2 but both sessions will be shorten to accomodate Q3's solo runs.

just one wishful fan here

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K I M I R A I K K O N E N
K I M I R A I K K O N E N
K I M I R A I K K O N E N

WELCOME BACK KIMI!

I'm going on memory here but didn't the FIA stop the use of exotic materials like berylium in the engines which caused Mercedes an headache or two?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

Excellent summary of what happened, thanks Benmc.

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http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

Does Adrian Newey get too much credit? Yes.

He is brilliant, but he isn't alone in creating RBR's success. Sometimes it seems people forget it takes an entire team to do what RBR is doing, and that there are a lot of unsung "heroes" behind the scenes.

(Before the knives come out, please realize that I'm not insulting or putting down Newey in any way.)