planetf1.com

Since there are a lot of us that can be considered vintage F1 fans (from 50's to 80's - perhaps mid 90's), I thought that we may share news, insights and thoughts and about past days in one thread. I hope Moderators agree with it.

For a start, I never knew that Nelson Piquet Sr. got some heart problems. He is recovering well after surgery. It's great to know that he is doing well.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111279

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I hope it works out, Lt.

However, as I am leaving tomorrow for Austin, then some time in Europe, I will have to catch up with it hit & miss. Hope to see some great stories and interesting questions though.

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Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

I'm not in the 50+ age bracket, but I've followed F1 since I was a kid. As time passes, it seems to me that there are less 'characters' around. Back in t'day, the F1 fan was treated to the likes of Jacques Laffite. Although a good driver, I remember Jacques more for his sense of fun. Here's a couple of examples.

In 1984, some genius decreed that Dallas should host a Grand Prix in early July. The track couldn't take the high temperatures (as high as 66 degrees Celsius) and soon began to crumble. The start of the race was moved from the usual 2.00 p.m. local to 11.00 a.m. This meant that the Sunday morning warm-up (a 30 minute session to allow the drivers and teams to hone their race set-ups) was brought forward to 7.00 a.m., much to the annoyance of the drivers. Laffite registered his protest in his own, inimitable way - by turning up at the circuit in his pyjamas. As it turned out, he needn't have bothered - the track was still undergoing repair and the warm-up was cancelled.

On another occasion, Jacques arrived at his hotel by taxi (it was one of the fly-away races). As one might expect of a man who enjoyed a range of sports, he carefully unloaded his golf clubs and fishing tackle from the boot (trunk) of the taxi, paid the driver and headed into the hotel, only to emerge seconds later, desperately waving his hands. Fortunately, the taxi driver saw him and stopped, thereby allowing Jacques to retrieve another bag from the boot. The contents of that bag? His crash helmet. Jacques had been so preoccupied with unloading his sports equipment that he temporarily forgot why he'd travelled to that country in the first place.....................

I just can't see any of today's F1 contingent doing either of those things.

Jacques Laffite is one of my favorite character, although it would be hard to name any from that period that isn't. remarkable driver and always up front to have his say, one way or another.

At South African GP 1982, he was the man that went out of the bus to move the minibus that was put in the middle of the road to sabotage drivers escape from the racetrack, during their boycott. Watch the video, and pay attention from 0:35 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcDAWhbHJqM

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Drebin

Why don't you ask the mods if they could sticky this. It would be nice to educate some of the younger guys and gals, like myself, on the forum?

It would be a nice "historical" thread.

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Felipe Massa fan/supporter since 2002 and counting!

We ALL love you Schumi! Don't ever give up!

Thanks for the link.

The drivers' strike in '82 was a remarkable occurrence. The drivers more or less barricaded themselves into a conference room at an hotel in Johannesburg. They stayed in the room overnight, even sharing mattresses. There was a piano in the room and Elio De Angelis, a concert-standard pianist, and Gilles Villeneuve, who could bash out a decent ragtime tune, entertained the drivers whilst they waited for word about their negotiations with FISA. Niki Lauda conducted the negotiations on behalf of the drivers and Didier Pironi acted as the relay betwen Lauda and the other drivers. Every time Pironi entered the drivers' lair to pass on the latest news, Gilles would herald his arrival by playing the opening bars of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.

It was a dramatic start to what would turn out to be a hideous season, in which two drivers would lose their lives and another would receive career-ending injuries.

OutKast, thank you for kind and humble words. Mods, you certainly read these threads. So, if you find it valuable, please, make this a sticky official thread for anything historic.

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Great to here reminiscence about Laffite. A driver so often forgotten but he was in the championship fight twice taking it to the last race in 81.

Something that always occurs to me is how many great drivers we could of had in seasons like 83 and 84. Hunt, Jones and Scheckter were both still young enough and tragedy robbed us of so many great guys like, Depaillier, Pironi, Villenueve, Nilsson and Peterson.

Heinz Prueller had a yearly book "Grand Prix story", and in the 1982 edition, he added that Bruno Giacomelli also tried his hands on the piano at that occasion, but it was a mere noise compared to Gilles' and Elio's playing.

Some picture collection from that event as well as text explaining what was going on: http://www.motorsportretro.com/2012/02/ ... rs-strike/

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Just came across this browsing


Having not been a fan as long as others, I will be keeping an eye on this thread and look forward to any cool stories from the past I haven't heard before

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IV

Thanks to Lt. Drebin for starting this thread, it's great to reminisce about the good old days. I've been following F1 since the late 80s (although I stopped watching during the Schumi dominance years). I remember this funny story from the late 80s; the McLaren team were at dinner before the '89 Mexican GP and Ron Dennis was struggling with the heat level in the salsa, so Senna bet him $5,000 that he couldn't eat the entire bowl. Ron did - and asked Senna for his money there and then (Senna was on about $10m a year so i'm sure he didn't miss the money!). I've no idea whether Ron was riding the porcelain horse that evening though...

Back in the late 60s, Chris Amon was a works Ferrari Grand Prix driver. One morning, after testing his F1 car, he met Enzo Ferrari for lunch. As he got up to head back to the track - he had more testing to do that afternoon - Amon realised that he'd drunk more than a bottle of Lambrusco, one of Ferrari's favourite wines. Amon mentioned this to Ferrari, who smilingly replied: "Good. You'll go faster."

He was right - Amon did set faster times that afternoon..............................

At the 1982 South African GP my brother and I were wandering behind the pits during practice, when we saw Carlos Reutmann stroll out of the Williams pit, leaving its crew grabbing a hotdog and coke sitting on tool boxes, pitcounter for lunch. We followed Carlos to chat, but he turned into the Ferrai pit, which was empty, everyone on the pitlane trying to get the Ferraris handling right. Carlos calmly went to the well-equipped kitchen unit, helped himself to a huge plate of pasta, bread and salads. He sat on a trunk in the middle of the pit, and enjoyed it all. Then he got up, stretched, took two bottles of red wine from the fridge, and walked out. Straight into us at the roll-up doorway. He was sheepish, but my brother helped by saying, "You know which team to come to for lunch!" Carlos smiled and said "Aah, they are just playing!" nodding towards to Ferrari people in the pitlane, then said "Ciaou" and strolled back to the Williams pit, a bottle under each arm. Mr Cool.

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http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

We don't always read threads, but this one was worth checking out. Stickying shortly.

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Don't forget the games you're competing in. Someone has to get one over on us!

Many thanks!



Great story POBRatings, as usual! Actually, it was Reutemann who could have been easily a World Champion in the chaotic 1982 year, was it not for the Falkland crisis and tensions between Brits and Argentinians. He left the Brit team amid that political crisis. Sad end for someone who so much deserved a world title, prompted by world politics.

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" Less than a year after Gilles Villeneuve's death, Patrick Tambay arrived at his place before the start of the San Marino Grand Prix and found an unexpected message : it was painted on the track, at position number three - a Canadian maple leaf flag and under it was written 'Win for Gilles'. Tambay was so moved he wept.
The race itself was a breathtaking duel between Tambay's chasing Ferrari and the Brabham of Italy's Riccardo Patrese. tambay passed him and won, but afterwards was strangely subdued. He felt somehow removed from one of the greatest moments of his life, as though he was there in body but not in spirit. tambay had the look of a man who had seen a ghost.
Much later he admitted : 'Something strange happened to me during the race. I was not alone in the car that day. Gilles was with me; I had been talking to him through the whole race. he had been robbed the year before and could not rest in peace. But he was in peace now'."

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Champions are made from something they have deep inside of them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have the skill & the will but the will must be stronger than the skill. Muhammad Ali

Graham Hill had a great sense of humour. From 1962-1968 he was usally on the front row or close to it. For one of the mid-sixties races his car was not right in qualifying, and he had to start at the back. Before the start, the others, Clark, Brabham, Gurney, etc teased him about his low starting position; Graham responded: "Yes, but you meet a much better class of person back there".

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Not a F1 story this, but it involves someone who was : Fangio. I never saw him race, being far too young of course (cough), but in 1992 Pirelli brought Fangio to Kyalami for a classic sports car day. It had been arranged that Fangio drive an old classic car, a 1929 Alfa Romeo 6C1750 on a demonstartion lap. Just before Fangio came along, the owner of the Alfa (Hugh Gearing) said to me, "The old gearbox is so difficult and tricky, I just hope it does not embarrass Fangio".

When JMF came along, he listened politely and nodded to Hugh Gearing's explanation, largely by hand signs, of double-declutching up and down, climbed in, looked down, checked the feel of the pedals and gear change. He then revved up, dropped the clutch, took off so smoothly, and changed up at high revs to the next gear.... each change was so quick, he hardly dropped engine revs.

Hugh just shook his head and said "I've had the car since 1948 and I have never been able to change gear like that!" Gearing also owned the ex-Nuvolari 8C2600 Monza too, and was an experienced historic racer.

Fangio was 82 that year, and had had a heart bypass operation a couple of years earlier.

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Thanks Lt Drebin for a great thread. I only starting watching just before the Schumi years (and my recollections are a bit hazy on the early 90s ), and by then the sport was already well on its way to being sanitized.

Great idea Drebin. I love hearing about the stories and minutia that never made it to the front pages and never gets talked about.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Finish: 1st place, Austin 2013
Career: 4 podiums, 1 wins

Patrick Tambay, one of F1's nice guys, was a great friend of Gilles. He often said that he felt Gilles' presence with him in the #27 Ferrari.

Guess this is as good a place as any for my first post.

I was big F1 fan when I was a kid. Gilles was my favorite driver and after he died, the sport lost something for me. When I saw Rush a few weeks ago, however, my interest was rekindled. Today, I watched my first Grand Prix in literally 30 years. Wish I'd never stopped now.

Things aren't the same now, though. Still miss the old drivers, like Villeneuve, Andretti, Lauda, etc. I liked the look of the vintage cars better, too.

If you any of you are Reddit users, I started a subreddit for Vintage F1: http://www.reddit.com/r/vintagef1/ . Stop by, if you can. There's no much there at the moment, so contribute if you can!

I took this quote from another thread about how Lauda had two victories, one second place and 5 retirements in 8 races while winning his 3rd championship.



It's about year 1984. Lauda vs, Prost, one of the most underestimated battles ever. Two all-time legends battling for the crown, separated on the end by 0,5 points. It worked well for Lauda, who addmited that it was his most difficult championship he ever won against the toughest guy, Alain Prost, whom he duly desrcibed as "the best guy". Some interesting videos about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDJdqVfhXMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UEnZgvaRvM (partly German, be patient, Prost in english comes later)

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Speaking of 1984, there's an article on the Top Gear website about the Mercedes 190E race at the Nurburgring to celebrate it's return to the F1 calendar. If you don't know the story, the old Nurburgring circuit was taken off the calendar after Niki Lauda's horrific crash there in '76 (as shown in Rush). When the new circuit was completed in 1984, a race was arranged featuring the best drivers - Jack Brabham, Phil Hill, John Surtees, Denny Hulme, James Hunt, Alan Jones, Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, Keke Rosberg, Jody Scheckter, Le Mans winner Klaus Ludwig, and Stirling Moss. Emerson Fitipaldi couldn't make it, so he was replaced with a young Brazilian driver named Ayrton Senna, who was a rookie driver racing for Toleman (equivalent to Marussia or Caterham). This (to my knowledge) was the last time that F1 drivers had a race on the same day, same track in equal machinery.

Here's a link to the article if anyone's interested:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/top-gear-drives-sennas-old-merc-2013-11-19

I was in the garage for the 1974 Grand Prix at Mosport. Back then the cars were broken up into smaller components, they did not travel as almost complete units. So in the morning (I think it was Thursday) the mechanics arrived while all the various parts had been delivered the night before. I was standing right beside the Lotus garage and the first thing the mechanics did was set the tub up on a stand. They then proceeded to haul out bags of t-shirts they had stuffed into the cockpit, set them up on a stand and sell them.

Talk about augmenting the income.

In the mid-sixties before the Rand Grand Prix at Kyalami, Clark was driving the team Lotus-Cortina in a saloon car 10-lapper. A local driver, Basil van Rooyen was leading from the start in his Lotus-Cortina. After about three laps a Lotus mechanic came to the edge of the pit apron and signalled Clark with a 'pull-finger' motion! In front of the main grandstand, I still laugh about it. Clark did manage to catch up and won.

Wonder how Rocky would signal Sebastian if he was being beaten his Infiniti?

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One of the many things I dislike about modern F1 is the lack of opportunity for small teams with little cash (but plenty of enthusiasm and talent) to be able to enter the championship and compete. It wasn't always like that.

In 1986, Henri Julien, a French garage owner, entered his AGS team in the F1 world championships. To say that it was a low budget operation might be an understatement: the team operated out of Julien's small garage premises at Gonfaron and had a total complement of seven employees including the driver. Space was at such a premium at the Gonfaron premises that the team had to remove the front wing of their F1 car to enable it to fit into the workshop.

Though small and perenially short of cash, the team initially punched well above its weight - especially in 1988 with the underrated Philippe Streiff at the wheel. On one occasion, Streiff even managed to qualify 10th, and this in an era when 30 or more cars regularly competed in the championship.

Sadly, Streiff was seriously injured in a pre-season testing crash in 1989. The team changed hands twice and their fortunes dramatically declined. They withdrew from F1 towards the end of the 1991 season but subsequently found new life as a company providing F1 driving experiences at Le Luc in France. They still operate there today.

My Vintage memory: 1975, I was 12 years old. I went with my father to see the South African Grand Prix. Jody Scheckter (A South African) was my hero. That year the Martini Brabhams of Pace and Reutemann were pretty invincible even though Lauda won the championship in the end. Lap1 Jody was second and by lap3, he pulled out of the slipstream approaching the first bend and passed Pace. He led to victory and a nation and a 12 year old boy were mesmerized by this phenomenal racer forever. South Africa had its problems at the time and years later lost the GP altogether. It returned after we became a democracy for three races but on a vastly modified and no longer great circuit. Today of course its gone forever. My passion for F1 was born on that day by that move!

Ex-F1 car design-engineer Gary Anderson, now BBC's expert technical presenter, was working on F3 cars in the early seventies. Then Brabham team owner Bernie Ecclestone heard Gary was keen to get into F1. Behind the pits at one race, Bernie said hello to Gary, asked if he'd like to work for Brabham? Bernie then pointed to a Cosworth V8 engine that they wanted put into the back of a truck; Gary promptly picked up the Cosworth and lifted it onto the truck. Bernie had always had a very good, dry sense of humour, and had not meant his request seriously.

He hired Anderson on the spot; who went on from Brabham and other teams to design the brilliant, tight-budget, first Jordan of 1991, then moved to Stewart, which Ford bought and renamed Jaguar. Gary left a short while after a Detroit corporate executive-engineer gave a pep talk to the F1 team designers, telling them: "You'll do things the Ford way, or I'll find someone else to do it". The guy knew nothing of F1. Pity Gary could not have picked him up and put him on a truck back to Detroit. He could not have weighed more than a 3-litre Cosworth.

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All the more sad if the Detroit man had a real engineering background, he more than most in the company should have known that there isn't a right or wrong, prescribed way to engineer. If there were, F1 wouldn't have developed at the extraordinary rate it has. I just finished watching the 1979 season for the first time, and they were regularly talking about several seconds being cut from the lap records of 1978. Can you imagine if F1 rolled up and slashed five seconds off the lap record in Melbourne next year? Unbelievable.

There's a great interview with Audi Sport's engineer, Ulrich Baretzky. Not vintage at all, but I would recommend it to anybody with a passing interest in how racing cars are made and the goings on inside a team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TAhWdVU3M4

Besides some interesting things about Audi's sportscar programme, one thing he said about engineering stayed with me. I forget the exact quote, but he said that people don't like to be lied at, they are lied at by politicans all year long, and that engineers should not lie. But then somebody like the man from Detroit comes along, with the corporate politics, and there is a conflict between the two.

Great anecdotes about Gary Anderson by the way, had not heard of either before. Guess it's one way to get hired in F1!

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"Jean Alesi is using the Maginot Line policy-You shall not pass!"-Murray Walker

Just looked through my Reading list in Safari and realized I had this sitting in the list since late July! LOL

It's an interview with Nelson Piquet Senior and is very informative. My favorite bits of information was in regards to his behavior towards Mansell. Just confirmed what i already suspected… Mind games. And I love the one about Drivers drive!

Anyhow, enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS1WZIaelo0


And thanks for thinking up such a fantastic thread LT!!!

Fantastic link, thanks! My favourite driver of all time

Adrian Newey on Mario Andretti: in 1987 Newey was Mario's race engineer for a brand new March -Ilmor Indycar, first test at Laguna Seca road circuit. The night before the two went to a Monterey restaurant for dinner, dim lighting and when 47-year-old Mario picked up a candle to read the menu, Adrian thought what have we let ourselves in for? "First time out next day, he was absolutely on it, from the very first lap". Because that car had just arrived, the mechanics had not had time to install the radio. Later in the day, the car came past the pits with the rear wing completely askew;they could not let Andretti know! A few seconds later there was a noise like an explosion! Newey and crew jumped into hire cars and charged around: at turn one there was the rear end and gearbox, then furtheron bits of bodywork , wheels, sus[ension all over and eventually the rest of the car upside down in a ditch, just the monocoque, nothing esle. "Mario was standing next to it; as we got to him he was tapping his watch with his finger, saying: "Goddam watch has stopped." He was on etough cookie. A brilliant guy who told you exactly what the car was doing."

From January 2014 edition of F1 Racing magazine, intgerview with Newey by Maurice Hamilton.

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The 1982 Drivers' Strike at Kyalami: the funny stories only came out later; at the time it was not at all enjoyable for anyone. No-one knew what was happening, no official news could be given, and the situation was changing continuously.

As fans, most of whom who had taken 'leave' from work, it was an infuriating waste, not a single car ran.

In those pre-hospitality unit days, the pitlane and behind-pitlane alley had a very unpleasant atmosphere. The team owners and managers were furious, many expletives were heard all day, scowling faces, talk of firing the overpaid little bastards and replacing them far cheaper, litigation, etc. These VIPs stormed up and down behind the pits talking heatedly to each other , sometimes in huddles including Bernie, Chapman, Forghieri, Tyrrell, Williams, Dennis, Ligier,etc. They all seemed united with a common enemy! Many of the drivers did not like Lauda's bossy attitude and the fact that he browbeat them into joining and getting into the bus. A couple of drivers openly refused and wanted to race. Many were afraid of being fired, especially the newer ones who had only just got into F1. The only driver from the strikers we saw at the circuit later in the day was Pironi, who calmly and quietly talked with the team owners a few times, then went back to the hotel for more instructions/discussion. The hotel was about 30 km/20 miles away, but the venue was not advertised at the circuit. The few thousand fans waited in hope, but practice never happened that day.

Apart from those occasions of fatal crashes, this was the most unpleasant day at Kyalami.

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Henri Julien died last year (13th of July).

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As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

One of the most revealing pieces on GP drivers'was published in the July 1984 issue of Road and Track magazine: 'Speed Graphic by Peter Wright, Lotus aero engineer on the ground effects cars of the late seventies. It directly measures and compares the cornering styles of Andretti, Peterson and Stewart in the Lotus-Cosworth 78 at a Paul Ricard test in December 1977.

Wish I could copy it on here, but five pages long with pics and diagrams, R+T permission, and I'm technically-challenged.

Most fascinating are the three drivers 'friction circle 'diagrams which show their traces of braking, cornering and accelration Gs. I cannot believe how different they are! Pity we can't have these for every driver each season.

I thought I'd lost this R+T article in my move , but fortunately found it yesterday, and was even more amazed than when I first read it 30 years ago.

Andretti was fastest at 1m 10.65, Peterson 1m 10.86 and Stewart (retired four years and not trying that hard 1m 11.75). Basically Andretti braked really hard from 140mph/225kmh (like Lewis or Fred?) , Peterson much less, but Ronnie threw the car sideways to scrub off speed! Andretti much smoother and very steady on all actions, accel, braking and cornering, Peterson relying on fantastic car control and not touching the brakes through the esses, unlike the other two! Stewart despite his lack of all-out commitment, was so smooth and generated higher lateral acceleration than the other two through the esses test piece!

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Talking of Pirelli signing up until 2016? In 1924-1925 then top-rated Alfa Romeo P2 driver Antonio Ascari had a brilliant mecahnic, Giulio Ramponi. According to Ramponi, Ascari was so light on tyres, that he wanted to run lower pressures for more grip in cornering,acceleration and braking than the Pirelli engineers stipulated, in their interests of tyre-longevity. On the grids Ascari would engage the Pirelli guys in conversation, while Giulio pretended to wipe/polish the car; in fact he would release the tyre valves and reduce pressure, when other engines were running, to disguise the hissing. Ascari was so sensitive (like Vettel? ) that he could win and finish with his tyres in better shape than his team-mates or rivals. Pirelli never knew about the fiddle.

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brabham.co.uk

New website promoting Brabham family. But, F1 team is mentioned just in 2-3 paragraphs. Pity.

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Jackie Stewart's father to Tony Rudd, BRM chief engineer in 1967: "Tell the wee *inaudible* to get his hair cut!"

Jack Brabham's father to the owner of Cooper Cars, Charles Cooper, in 1957: "Look after Jack, he's a simple lad."

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That is very interesting! I guess one can say Andretti had an bit of advantage over the other two as he was familiar to the 78 as Peterson was just back at Lotus and Stewart was retired four years but never the less still those differences in driving style.

Thanks for sharing!