planetf1.com

Read that Honda are basically trying to create a copy of the Merc engine for next season... Back to square one then? I predict Alonso will be gone before the summer break.

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well, to be fair I think I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't possible before because of the token system. But it does offer significant packaging and weight distribution advantages, so why not?

It seems Renault are also engaged in a complete engine redesign, so Honda aren't the only ones.

Don't know if there are any significant packaging advantages since it will be a larger engine? But yeah it seems obvious the Mercedes design is the way to go, but what I meant with the square one comment is that because the design philosophy is so different they may initially be worse off compared to having spent the tokens on iterations of their work so far. They had only just started to have decent reliability so will that go down the drain as well? In the long game it was probably a wise decision, but as I said I think Alonso will be gone before it comes to fruition.

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Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

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I had thought for a while that the token system backed Renault into a corner re design, but didn't realise that Honda needed a complete redesign as well.

I think if they knew they needed a redesign a while ago, then they might have had these new engines in development for a year or more. It won't be like starting from scratch, but you are right that they might take a while to get up to speed.
Especially with only 4 engines to last a whole season.
I hope Honda can do it as I would love to see some real competition in F1 rather then the Merc show we have had for 3 years.

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Excerpt from Hasegawa interview from 21.Dec 2016 about the new PU translated from a poster elsewhere..


Delighted they're more confident about what they are doing(They talk about consulting with foreign engineers in the interview and there was a rumour they had been working with Mahle and AVL Graz like Ferrari did) and also delighted they seem confident if they can get it working it will be competitive.

Not cool it still wasn't working on December 21st though. It's going to be tight I fear but fingers crossed.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

good info, thanks. Although the "considerably severe" part is a little concerning

Just a bit yeah . Delighted they are working with the foreign consultants though, and he does sort of confirm they will use the same combustion techniques because they can't compete without them but won't confirm any specifics.

Q from interviewer............"As you explained while ago, fundamentally different technologies like semi-HCCI is necessary in order to catch up with Merc and Ferrari, right"?.




Also confirms they want a customer for 2018 and Sauber and Williams are rumoured to be interested. Really surprised by the Williams bit, I'd read Sauber a few times from different places but that's the first I'd heard Williams mentioned.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Throws some (semi)shade on McLaren in regards to 2017 car that will cheer some people up.....

(Q) ------- Regarding chassis as well, you were forced to struggle due to correlation errors in simulation etc last year, but is 2017 machine alright?

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

It's always been clear to anyone that wanted to actually look that the McLaren chassis was for the most part the 4th or 5th best last year. Not the shining pinnacle of a car that they make out. They've actually Changed their tune on that fact since the season ended which is nice, no need to market so hard any more.

Hopefully they can bring something a bit more special this year, and I'm excited to see what random crazy contraption they'll bring this season as well. For better or worse they always do something weird.

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I'm holding out hope on some crazy looking bargeboards personally.

They've been eerily quiet about the whole suspension shenanigans around RB and Mercedes. Don't know if that's good or bad but if they don't come up with something similar in that department, or get it working as well as the others if they've got something similar, they'll struggle I fear.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Not looking like they are going to get it sorted in time is a better position than they have been in of not going to get it sorted.

What is the rule with the engine now? the one that is used in the first race has to be used all year, or can the total design be changed anytime?

That is, can they use last years engine if they need to for the first race, or two, then use the new one? (it wil obviously count as one of the engine allocation)

I'm fairly sure as last year's engines are already homulgated they can use them if need be.and switch to the new engine when they replace the first one.

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Podiums: 1st Spa '16, 1st Bahrain '15, 1st China '14, 1st Malaysia '14
Championship position 2014: 13th | | 2015: 10th (heading the right way)
PF1 Autosport GP Predictor 2014: Second 2015: Second

I see Zak Brown has confirmed he has signed of the McLaren livery for the new season....could McLaren finally be moving away from the dull colour scheme of the last 2 years? Here's to hoping there's a new livery to start with and secondly that it brings more success!

this thread is pretty much like all the other mc honda threads that never end, and go nowhere-3 years and still only midfield, or can we expect a few podiums in 2017, lets face it , its about time

They've probably just eliminated one more colour from their mix. Can't have those crazy design features such as aesthetics distracting people.

That or they've painted the entire car hospital gown blue so that it finally matches how sterile and heartless the team culture has become

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Podiums: 1st Spa '16, 1st Bahrain '15, 1st China '14, 1st Malaysia '14
Championship position 2014: 13th | | 2015: 10th (heading the right way)
PF1 Autosport GP Predictor 2014: Second 2015: Second

Lol so pessimistic.

Remember that the token system is gone.
They can basically design a completely new PU for every 4 races or so, they can try a Mercedes copy and if it doesnt work they can try another more conservative design.

If Alonso really likes the 2017 cars and allows him to push to the hardest, and if those can allow the better drivers to make a difference, he will probably stay longer than 2017

Or go extreme and design a new PU for every race if they are willing to take grid penalty's.

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/01/18/ ... kes-sense/

Possible williams-honda partnership? Article makes a lot of sense and i can see redbull wanting a honda power unit too in the future especially if renault starts derating these tag heuer units. Of course assuming that honda can finally put out a competitive engine.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/partner ... 1-1111156/

Another partnership signed up for McLaren! Looks as if this is more of a technical partnership than it is a commercial partnership. Interesting though that it's Jonathan Neale in the header photo and not Zak Brown.

So is confirmed now that capito has left the team. Whilst I doubt he had any significant involvement in next years car, surely it is alarming that more and more personnel are leaving and yet no one is joining (or at least I haven't heard of anyone new joining, correct me if I'm wrong)

I get the feeling that they're simply getting rid of the deadwood in the team. They don't necessarily need immediate replacements but time will tell as to whether this new 'direction' will pay off for them on the track.

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#KeepFightingMichael

How is Capito the dead wood? He just joined!

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PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017

From what I read I got the impression that the budget he was requiring to turn the team around was far and above what the board were willing to pay, even short term, and that they'd failed to come to a compromise so effectively there was no point in him being there without the resources and both sides agreed to separate

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Championship position 2014: 13th | | 2015: 10th (heading the right way)
PF1 Autosport GP Predictor 2014: Second 2015: Second

Dead wood is a little harsh. Surplus to requirements I would say. Another employee leaving to Williams according to motorsport last night! Very alarming that names are leaving yet have not seen anyone come into McLaren!

Yes, maybe deadwood was a tad harsh given his relatively short tenure; however given that he was appointed by Ron, I can't help but think that the team are now eager to create a new identity by getting rid of anyone that Ron was involved in appointing during his last 12 months or so running the team.

But then again, that doesn't explain Dave Redding's departure to Williams!

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#KeepFightingMichael

Unfortunately I reckon Capito was probably right. McLaren aren't going to get to the top being frugal

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FA#14

Wasn't Ron involved in recruiting Brown? So I'm not sure that is the case.

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Group Pick 'Em 2016 Champion

Yes, Brown's said more than once that Ron recruited him

Has anyone heard of any new arrivals into McLaren with the departures they have had?

Whilst it doesn't appear that McLaren are likely to return to the forefront anytime soon, it does appear that even in troubled times McLaren are picking up sponsorship as per the below, albeit by the importance of sticker on the car it doesn't appear like they'll be big sponsorship in terms of revenue! At least this is something positive......

http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments ... h-Logitech

http://www.eppm.com/industry-news/strat ... claren-f1/

https://www.pitpass.com/58696/McLaren-p ... n-campaign

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside- ... a-5133652/

http://www.blackbook.biz/business_news/ ... an-market/

I mock Honda a lot, but I'm sad to see them in F1 now. The company that won five straight WDCs before 1992 with Williams and McLaren, now going through a terrible slump.

In a way, Renault's current form is also disastrous for a company whose engines used to be the most coveted on the grid.

The McLaren chassis might not be that good either, since McLaren themselves weren't anything special in 2014 with Mercedes power, but ATM the engine is like an anchor to the team.

Williams is never winning anything either with Mercedes running cars as a constructor and their current driver lineup.

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"Ask any racer, any real racer... It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning." (Dominic Toretto, "The Fast and The Furious")

I too am saddened to see Honda struggle so mightily. I only hope that they stick around for the next major engine rules change and get their act together between now and then so that they can actually take advantage of that opportunity. We need a Japanese manufacturer and it would be great to get an American one as well (though I wouldn't hold my breath on that).

I would not call Renault's engines a disaster. They may not be #1, but they are good and competitive. Something that can't even be remotely dreamed of Honda's.

Too many people with low energy and bad karma in that team right now..

Engine is not the only problem..

It's 99.9% of the problem. Fix that and the rest can be worked on. McLaren is going NOWHERE with Honda.

but all the bad karma that Alonso brings from 2007 is costing Honda alot of horsepower...

I seriously doubt they'd be out of the midfield even with a better engine.

2014 strongly hints to that.

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"Ask any racer, any real racer... It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning." (Dominic Toretto, "The Fast and The Furious")

Ferrari wasn't out of the midfield that year, either. Just because Macca had a mediocre chassis that year doesn't mean they'd necessarily have one now.

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PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017

The deeper question is; can anyone hope to really challenge Ferrari or Mercedes in this era? They have the ability to holistically design their chassis and engine to work in unison with each other and can withold some of the bells and whistles from their customers' engines. How can a customer hope to compete? I think Red Bull must be realizing this themselves now and McLaren must too. That's why they are sticking with Honda. Ultimately, if Honda leaves, McLaren will well and truly complete their journey along the same path that Williams traveled before them.