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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:04 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


How complicated/costly would it be for McLaren to build an Indy chassis and enter a McLaren Honda in Indy Car?

I'd assume IndyCar would be very happy to have the McLaren name in their series, especially if it comes with a big name driver like Alonso or another F1 name (Button?).

Maybe it would be how they can finally attract sponsors, with a package deal that covers both their IndyCar and F1 teams.

EDIT: Just googled a comparison of the costs of running in F1 and IndyCar;

Top F1 team: $470 million; Top IndyCar team: $15 million (2013 article)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Costs are much lower for Indy because it is a spec series. Chassis are all the same with only small aero differences based on which engine manufacturer you're using.

No development race in designing or building a chassis from the ground up every years keeps it really cheap. (In motorsports terms at least)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:29 pm 
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moby wrote:
I think for most teams it will be a matter of alternatives.

Probably all teams would like Alonso as a driver, cos love him or not he is one of the best.
They will then weigh up if it is worth the cost of 3 or 4 other good drivers.

Will a driver almost as good get the same results? for instance, is the team you are chasing a half second in front, and the following one half second behind. If so, many drivers will get the same result. If they are looking for tenths, Alonso is the man to get them.

Will it bring disruption to the team.
Is he liable to upset or alienate a sponsor or supplier.

There are probably 2 teams that would defiantly benefit from him joining, these being Red Bull, who only use home grown, and Ferrari, who would have to eat humble pie in the media to take him, but risk not having the best score from the other car.


So in other words I see it as only Ferrari wanting him enough to go for it at the price and with the baggage.


Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:58 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc. If Mc-Honda has the same issues at the end of the year, I would think that going to the Indy Series may be just as likely as anything else (retirement, getting picked up by another top team)


Last edited by rodH on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:04 pm 
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rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


He has said in the past that if F1 doesn't change and become more fun to drive and more wheel to wheel driving and a series where you can push the limits instead of always worrying about saving tires, etc.... that he may consider other series.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:25 pm 
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rodH wrote:
pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


He has said in the past that if F1 doesn't change and become more fun to drive and more wheel to wheel driving and a series where you can push the limits instead of always worrying about saving tires, etc.... that he may consider other series.



I think when he said 'become more fun', he means him winning more.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:26 pm 
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rodH wrote:
pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


He has said in the past that if F1 doesn't change and become more fun to drive and more wheel to wheel driving and a series where you can push the limits instead of always worrying about saving tires, etc.... that he may consider other series.

I'm not sure what you mean by wheel to wheel racing, he actually enjoys driving the cars this year he's just in the wrong car.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 pm 
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moby wrote:
rodH wrote:
pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


He has said in the past that if F1 doesn't change and become more fun to drive and more wheel to wheel driving and a series where you can push the limits instead of always worrying about saving tires, etc.... that he may consider other series.



I think when he said 'become more fun', he means him winning more.

Well I've also alluded to that in the past. ;)

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2017: Currently 11th

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:46 am 
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moby wrote:
rodH wrote:
pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


He has said in the past that if F1 doesn't change and become more fun to drive and more wheel to wheel driving and a series where you can push the limits instead of always worrying about saving tires, etc.... that he may consider other series.



I think when he said 'become more fun', he means him winning more.


very well could be, thats not how he said it, but winning sure is more "fun" than DNFs


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:27 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
moby wrote:
I think for most teams it will be a matter of alternatives.

Probably all teams would like Alonso as a driver, cos love him or not he is one of the best.
They will then weigh up if it is worth the cost of 3 or 4 other good drivers.

Will a driver almost as good get the same results? for instance, is the team you are chasing a half second in front, and the following one half second behind. If so, many drivers will get the same result. If they are looking for tenths, Alonso is the man to get them.

Will it bring disruption to the team.
Is he liable to upset or alienate a sponsor or supplier.

There are probably 2 teams that would defiantly benefit from him joining, these being Red Bull, who only use home grown, and Ferrari, who would have to eat humble pie in the media to take him, but risk not having the best score from the other car.


So in other words I see it as only Ferrari wanting him enough to go for it at the price and with the baggage.


Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Vettel has fitted in nicely, but not sure what you mean about moving the team in a better direction together/moving forward? As far as i know, Vettel was not responsible for the overhaul of the technical/engine departments at Ferrari in the last few years.

Number one driver policy? We're not in 1998 anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:38 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
The real question for me is - will Ferrari or Mercedes want Alonso in their lineups for 2018?

Ferrari - I personally think a bridge has been burnt here, and Ferrari would rather have Ricciardo or a solid #2 in their seat than Alonso after Raikkonen's imminent departure.

Mercedes - This is where it is interesting - in spite of the usual self-PR bs coming from Lewis, it is clear that he prefers a subservient team-mate (or at least someone he can beat more often than not). Will Mercedes be willing to risk upsetting the apple-cart to get Alonso in the 2nd seat, or keep Bottas assuming he can be a reliable #2? They have shown to be willing to readily implement team-orders when needed, and it looks likely that they will back Hamilton over Bottas to try and thwart Vettel's challenge.

If neither of these 2 seats are options for Alonso, it leaves him with just Renault as the team with any potential of challenging at the front. RBR will only take drivers from their own junior academy, and would likely not have Alonso even if he offered to drive for free.

Sad as it sounds, it is very likely that Fernando quits in 2019-2020 while still being a 2-time WDC.


No bridges burnt at Ferrari. if Vettel were to leave Ferrari then i think Alonso rejoining Ferrari would be a possibility. Alonso would have to swallow his pride and rejoin a team that he thought didn't have capability of delivering a winning car. Anyway, Vettel is settled in and can see the car is progressing nicely, so it's highly unlikely that he will leave.

Would be sad for Alonso, but it was his decision to leave Ferrari for Mclaren.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:46 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
The real question for me is - will Ferrari or Mercedes want Alonso in their lineups for 2018?

Ferrari - I personally think a bridge has been burnt here, and Ferrari would rather have Ricciardo or a solid #2 in their seat than Alonso after Raikkonen's imminent departure.

Mercedes - This is where it is interesting - in spite of the usual self-PR bs coming from Lewis, it is clear that he prefers a subservient team-mate (or at least someone he can beat more often than not). Will Mercedes be willing to risk upsetting the apple-cart to get Alonso in the 2nd seat, or keep Bottas assuming he can be a reliable #2? They have shown to be willing to readily implement team-orders when needed, and it looks likely that they will back Hamilton over Bottas to try and thwart Vettel's challenge.

If neither of these 2 seats are options for Alonso, it leaves him with just Renault as the team with any potential of challenging at the front. RBR will only take drivers from their own junior academy, and would likely not have Alonso even if he offered to drive for free.

Sad as it sounds, it is very likely that Fernando quits in 2019-2020 while still being a 2-time WDC.


No bridges burnt at Ferrari. if Vettel were to leave Ferrari then i think Alonso rejoining Ferrari would be a possibility. Alonso would have to swallow his pride and rejoin a team that he thought didn't have capability of delivering a winning car. Anyway, Vettel is settled in and can see the car is progressing nicely, so it's highly unlikely that he will leave.

Would be sad for Alonso, but it was his decision to leave Ferrari for Mclaren.


Quite some dose of pride had to be already swallowed even in this very latest race... being lapped by the Ferrari on its way to claim the deserved win, just to (not surprisingly) DNF few laps later.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:01 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:46 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.


Each to their own, but IMO it takes more than 2 bad seasons for a team to no longer be considered top tier, especially given the history of a team like Mclaren.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:55 am 
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Prema wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
A.J. wrote:
The real question for me is - will Ferrari or Mercedes want Alonso in their lineups for 2018?

Ferrari - I personally think a bridge has been burnt here, and Ferrari would rather have Ricciardo or a solid #2 in their seat than Alonso after Raikkonen's imminent departure.

Mercedes - This is where it is interesting - in spite of the usual self-PR bs coming from Lewis, it is clear that he prefers a subservient team-mate (or at least someone he can beat more often than not). Will Mercedes be willing to risk upsetting the apple-cart to get Alonso in the 2nd seat, or keep Bottas assuming he can be a reliable #2? They have shown to be willing to readily implement team-orders when needed, and it looks likely that they will back Hamilton over Bottas to try and thwart Vettel's challenge.

If neither of these 2 seats are options for Alonso, it leaves him with just Renault as the team with any potential of challenging at the front. RBR will only take drivers from their own junior academy, and would likely not have Alonso even if he offered to drive for free.

Sad as it sounds, it is very likely that Fernando quits in 2019-2020 while still being a 2-time WDC.


No bridges burnt at Ferrari. if Vettel were to leave Ferrari then i think Alonso rejoining Ferrari would be a possibility. Alonso would have to swallow his pride and rejoin a team that he thought didn't have capability of delivering a winning car. Anyway, Vettel is settled in and can see the car is progressing nicely, so it's highly unlikely that he will leave.

Would be sad for Alonso, but it was his decision to leave Ferrari for Mclaren.


Quite some dose of pride had to be already swallowed even in this very latest race... being lapped by the Ferrari on its way to claim the deserved win, just to (not surprisingly) DNF few laps later.

Last time he was in a Ferrari he was getting lapped. At the time it seemed like a worthwhile gamble to leave

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:58 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.

I've said this elsewhere but McLaren are still the embodiment of a "top team". They have facilities up there with the other top teams, they have an exclusive works engine contract, they bring updates to pretty much every race, they have an all-star driver line-up (and they pay one of them $40-50 million). McLaren are just a top team that's not performing

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:29 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.


Each to their own, but IMO it takes more than 2 bad seasons for a team to no longer be considered top tier, especially given the history of a team like Mclaren.


Nobody should consider McLaren a top team, considering they havent won a race since 2012. Even with that extreme length of time McLaren are still trending down and down *hard*. It will be years before one can even hope that they are competitive again.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:03 am 
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mcdo wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.

I've said this elsewhere but McLaren are still the embodiment of a "top team". They have facilities up there with the other top teams, they have an exclusive works engine contract, they bring updates to pretty much every race, they have an all-star driver line-up (and they pay one of them $40-50 million). McLaren are just a top team that's not performing



I like Mclaren (not a fanboy of anyone though) and would like to see them in the top 3 again, but Mclaren as we remember them are gone now as they have been gutted and restrung.
Which is not to sat they are not still a force, just a different ethos.

It was that when Ron said 'Jump' everyone asked "yes sir, what colour" and he knew where when and how much and expected it. Now, a group of people with differing thoughts meet in a room and a consensus is passed to the white coat guys who have to pass on what happens with more than just one party to satisfy.

I can not help but compare them to Williams of not so long ago.

I would like to see both Macca and Williams back at the top, but is it going to happen? If it does, it will be by a different route.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:06 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:

Nobody should consider McLaren a top team, considering they havent won a race since 2012. Even with that extreme length of time McLaren are still trending down and down *hard*. It will be years before one can even hope that they are competitive again.


We're not talking about now, we're talking about whether Mclaren were still considered top tier in 2014.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:11 am 
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moby wrote:

I like Mclaren (not a fanboy of anyone though) and would like to see them in the top 3 again, but Mclaren as we remember them are gone now as they have been gutted and restrung.
Which is not to sat they are not still a force, just a different ethos.

It was that when Ron said 'Jump' everyone asked "yes sir, what colour" and he knew where when and how much and expected it. Now, a group of people with differing thoughts meet in a room and a consensus is passed to the white coat guys who have to pass on what happens with more than just one party to satisfy.

I can not help but compare them to Williams of not so long ago.

I would like to see both Macca and Williams back at the top, but is it going to happen? If it does, it will be by a different route.


They still have a big budget and works deal, so the comparison with Williams isn't a great one.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:08 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
moby wrote:

I like Mclaren (not a fanboy of anyone though) and would like to see them in the top 3 again, but Mclaren as we remember them are gone now as they have been gutted and restrung.
Which is not to sat they are not still a force, just a different ethos.

It was that when Ron said 'Jump' everyone asked "yes sir, what colour" and he knew where when and how much and expected it. Now, a group of people with differing thoughts meet in a room and a consensus is passed to the white coat guys who have to pass on what happens with more than just one party to satisfy.

I can not help but compare them to Williams of not so long ago.

I would like to see both Macca and Williams back at the top, but is it going to happen? If it does, it will be by a different route.


They still have a big budget and works deal, so the comparison with Williams isn't a great one.


Without a hard direction they can easily spend more money on things that will not help than on things that will.
If you have 3 people wanting A, B, and C, and thy all get pushed, the funds are split by 3 or more and the water gets muddy for all 3. Any of the 3 may have been the correct option in its self, but will not work when mixed with the other 2.

How the funds, and probably more importantly, the time is used is wasted.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:46 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Ferrari won't go for him. It would cause to much unrest in the team with Vettel. Plus Vettel has integrated himself into the team perfectly, and helped push them in a better direction together as a team to move forward. The team has great harmony, and the spirit levels are very high, something Alonso could very well upset, and it's not something Ferrari would be willing to change their modern number one driver policy for.


Alonso is a brilliant driver on track and a savvy politician in the boardroom. Unfortunately the latter quality also makes him a huge liability as evidenced, time and time again, in the course of his career. I don't see a top team taking him onboard at this point. Too much baggage. McLaren employed him because they desperately needed a top tier driver while no longer being a top tier team.


Not sure about the bolded. Perhaps you can provide examples.

Mclaren were still a top team at the end of 2014.

Alonso's main problem now is that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes have a need for him. Each team has a top driver who is performing well for them.

I'm not sure a team who had been on the podium in one of the previous 38 races counts as a top team.


Each to their own, but IMO it takes more than 2 bad seasons for a team to no longer be considered top tier, especially given the history of a team like Mclaren.


McLaren is currently in its 5th consecutive bad season.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:56 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
McLaren is currently in its 5th consecutive bad season.


And there lies the problem, not only 5th poor year of where they want to be (expectations as well) it's a 3rd year with Honda. At the end of each year they've promised things will get better. Even Alonso is starting to seriously lose patience - why? Because on their 3rd year of promises they are still lacking in two fundamentals for that Honda Engine: Reliability and straight line speed. Even without DRS cars that normally wouldn't beat the Mclaren can overtake and be gone... that's not great nor good.

McLaren need data to improve, they need reliability to gather that data, they need improved power from the engine to see if it's 100% the engine or their car. There's no point in making changes to the car aero package that changes when their speed improves (the air flow alone would be different). They had severe vibrations caused by the engine (which in it self is very bad because it causes even more unreliability).

All I can say is, I think they can write off this season again. When you consider the gap from Merc, Ferrari, RBR on quali pace alone (not to mention race page) they are not even "best of the rest". If four other teams can compete for the top 10 shoot out it really does go to show how far Mclaren Honda are down the pecking order and that's with Fernando who is a very good qualifier and racer.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:21 am 
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When Alonso was interviewed by the Indy commentating team yesterday, he said yet again that the car is great except for the power unit. I don't know why they don't just find another engine.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:31 am 
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jimmyj wrote:
When Alonso was interviewed by the Indy commentating team yesterday, he said yet again that the car is great except for the power unit. I don't know why they don't just find another engine.
Because it's not that straightforward?

It's been explained several times. McLaren strongly believe that being a customer team will mean they won't ever be able to challenge for titles again, and they don't want to be perennial also-rans. They are also three years into a 10 year deal with Honda, reportedly worth an estimated $100 million per year. Aside from free engines, this deal also includes driver salaries and extra cash for the team, as well as other collaborations outside F1. It's not simply a case of Honda providing engines. Giving all that up means they have a major revenue shortfall to make up, and teams up and down the grid have shown that that in itself is a daunting challenge.

It's not as simple or easy as "just finding another engine."


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:34 am 
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Zoue wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
When Alonso was interviewed by the Indy commentating team yesterday, he said yet again that the car is great except for the power unit. I don't know why they don't just find another engine.
Because it's not that straightforward?

It's been explained several times. McLaren strongly believe that being a customer team will mean they won't ever be able to challenge for titles again, and they don't want to be perennial also-rans. They are also three years into a 10 year deal with Honda, reportedly worth an estimated $100 million per year. Aside from free engines, this deal also includes driver salaries and extra cash for the team, as well as other collaborations outside F1. It's not simply a case of Honda providing engines. Giving all that up means they have a major revenue shortfall to make up, and teams up and down the grid have shown that that in itself is a daunting challenge.

It's not as simple or easy as "just finding another engine."


Oh I understand the complexities, and I admit the "get another engine" comment was a bit flippant and simple. They made a 10 year deal, which I think was probably a dumb move. And the consequences of the decision are now tarnishing both brands. Never say never, if this combo stinks out the joint another 2 years something will have to give.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:39 am 
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jimmyj wrote:
Zoue wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
When Alonso was interviewed by the Indy commentating team yesterday, he said yet again that the car is great except for the power unit. I don't know why they don't just find another engine.
Because it's not that straightforward?

It's been explained several times. McLaren strongly believe that being a customer team will mean they won't ever be able to challenge for titles again, and they don't want to be perennial also-rans. They are also three years into a 10 year deal with Honda, reportedly worth an estimated $100 million per year. Aside from free engines, this deal also includes driver salaries and extra cash for the team, as well as other collaborations outside F1. It's not simply a case of Honda providing engines. Giving all that up means they have a major revenue shortfall to make up, and teams up and down the grid have shown that that in itself is a daunting challenge.

It's not as simple or easy as "just finding another engine."


Oh I understand the complexities. A 10 year deal was probably a dumb move frankly.

Only with hindsight. A 10-year works collaboration guarantees McLaren (financial) stability, at a time when the whole of F1 is under financial pressure. And I don't think anybody could have foreseen the struggles Honda was going to have. It was a pretty major coup for McLaren, let down only by its execution


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
Zoue wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
When Alonso was interviewed by the Indy commentating team yesterday, he said yet again that the car is great except for the power unit. I don't know why they don't just find another engine.
Because it's not that straightforward?

It's been explained several times. McLaren strongly believe that being a customer team will mean they won't ever be able to challenge for titles again, and they don't want to be perennial also-rans. They are also three years into a 10 year deal with Honda, reportedly worth an estimated $100 million per year. Aside from free engines, this deal also includes driver salaries and extra cash for the team, as well as other collaborations outside F1. It's not simply a case of Honda providing engines. Giving all that up means they have a major revenue shortfall to make up, and teams up and down the grid have shown that that in itself is a daunting challenge.

It's not as simple or easy as "just finding another engine."


Oh I understand the complexities. A 10 year deal was probably a dumb move frankly.

Only with hindsight. A 10-year works collaboration guarantees McLaren (financial) stability, at a time when the whole of F1 is under financial pressure. And I don't think anybody could have foreseen the struggles Honda was going to have. It was a pretty major coup for McLaren, let down only by its execution


Good response. Sensible. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


Right now, this year, the possibility to fight for wins or the title in Formula One has gone. The possibility has dropped to absolute zero. Even a podium has very long odds.

This weekend Alonso was at the Indycar race at Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama. During the race he dropped in with the TV announcers and answered a few questions. And of course, he was asked about missing Monaco. I will attempt to convey an accurate response.

I have won the title twice, I have won Monaco twice, and many podiums. A third, fourth, or fifth place finish does not match the thrill of winning the Indy 500.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:21 pm 
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More interviews have opened up Alonso's plans.

Alonso says his motivation is to secure the "Triple Crown" – also including the Le Mans 24 Hours – and as such he expects to return to Indianapolis if he doesn't win this year.

"I want to be the most complete driver in the world and the best driver in the world and I want to win all the series in different cars with different driving techniques; that I need to adapt and that I need to grow up as a driver. If I want to do that, I need to win it. And if it's not this year, we will plan it for the next attempt."

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/139846-alonso-s-indy-run-unlikely-to-be-one-off

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:49 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
More interviews have opened up Alonso's plans.

Alonso says his motivation is to secure the "Triple Crown" – also including the Le Mans 24 Hours – and as such he expects to return to Indianapolis if he doesn't win this year.

"I want to be the most complete driver in the world and the best driver in the world and I want to win all the series in different cars with different driving techniques; that I need to adapt and that I need to grow up as a driver. If I want to do that, I need to win it. And if it's not this year, we will plan it for the next attempt."

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/139846-alonso-s-indy-run-unlikely-to-be-one-off


It seems to me that he is slowly giving up trying to win the F1 title ever again.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
pokerman wrote:
rodH wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i didn't realize that mclaren also said, while they have no immediate plans to enter indy car full time, they are open to the idea.

it's possible, imo very unlikely, but possible, he enjoys the 500 and someone ponies up enough money that he signs with a team in indy car for next year. one thing i am sure will shock him though, is the number of regular fans he will be exposed to in the garage/pit/motorhome area. remains to be seen how he responds to that


Yes, I think it may be a (small) possibility he does do the series in future w/ Mc

I think he is only really interested in winning the Indy500.


Right now, this year, the possibility to fight for wins or the title in Formula One has gone. The possibility has dropped to absolute zero. Even a podium has very long odds.

This weekend Alonso was at the Indycar race at Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama. During the race he dropped in with the TV announcers and answered a few questions. And of course, he was asked about missing Monaco. I will attempt to convey an accurate response.

I have won the title twice, I have won Monaco twice, and many podiums. A third, fourth, or fifth place finish does not match the thrill of winning the Indy 500.

That still doesn't change what I said.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:11 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
More interviews have opened up Alonso's plans.

Alonso says his motivation is to secure the "Triple Crown" – also including the Le Mans 24 Hours – and as such he expects to return to Indianapolis if he doesn't win this year.

"I want to be the most complete driver in the world and the best driver in the world and I want to win all the series in different cars with different driving techniques; that I need to adapt and that I need to grow up as a driver. If I want to do that, I need to win it. And if it's not this year, we will plan it for the next attempt."

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/139846-alonso-s-indy-run-unlikely-to-be-one-off


It seems to me that he is slowly giving up trying to win the F1 title ever again.

No I watched the interview, these things he will strive to do once his F1 career is over, he isn't calling time on his F1 career and let's not forget the McLaren Honda hell ends for him this season and he is a free agent for 2018, it's believed that he is already in negotiation with Renault.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:34 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
More interviews have opened up Alonso's plans.

Alonso says his motivation is to secure the "Triple Crown" – also including the Le Mans 24 Hours – and as such he expects to return to Indianapolis if he doesn't win this year.

"I want to be the most complete driver in the world and the best driver in the world and I want to win all the series in different cars with different driving techniques; that I need to adapt and that I need to grow up as a driver. If I want to do that, I need to win it. And if it's not this year, we will plan it for the next attempt."

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/139846-alonso-s-indy-run-unlikely-to-be-one-off


It seems to me that he is slowly giving up trying to win the F1 title ever again.

No I watched the interview, these things he will strive to do once his F1 career is over, he isn't calling time on his F1 career and let's not forget the McLaren Honda hell ends for him this season and he is a free agent for 2018, it's believed that he is already in negotiation with Renault.


That's good but unfortunately I don't see Renault as a better deal in terms of his aspirations. Yeah it is a better outfit than McLaren at the moment but nowhere near the top 3. It might just be a "sentimental" deal if there is anything like that. He started his F1 career with Renault (excluding Minardi) and he will finish it with the same outfit, more like a thank you and goodbye.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:23 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
pokerman wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
More interviews have opened up Alonso's plans.

Alonso says his motivation is to secure the "Triple Crown" – also including the Le Mans 24 Hours – and as such he expects to return to Indianapolis if he doesn't win this year.

"I want to be the most complete driver in the world and the best driver in the world and I want to win all the series in different cars with different driving techniques; that I need to adapt and that I need to grow up as a driver. If I want to do that, I need to win it. And if it's not this year, we will plan it for the next attempt."

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/139846-alonso-s-indy-run-unlikely-to-be-one-off


It seems to me that he is slowly giving up trying to win the F1 title ever again.

No I watched the interview, these things he will strive to do once his F1 career is over, he isn't calling time on his F1 career and let's not forget the McLaren Honda hell ends for him this season and he is a free agent for 2018, it's believed that he is already in negotiation with Renault.


That's good but unfortunately I don't see Renault as a better deal in terms of his aspirations. Yeah it is a better outfit than McLaren at the moment but nowhere near the top 3. It might just be a "sentimental" deal if there is anything like that. He started his F1 career with Renault (excluding Minardi) and he will finish it with the same outfit, more like a thank you and goodbye.

I think that Renault have made big strides already compared to last season, they are staffing up and getting stronger and the team has a good heritage, if Alonso came onboard I would only envisage them ramping things up even more.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:14 am 
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I would like Mclaren and Honda to get rid of him for good. He was never a team player and is the wrong person for building a team. I am so sick of him complaining all the time. I wonder how the team is copying with all his crap day in day out :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:18 am 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
I would like Mclaren and Honda to get rid of him for good. He was never a team player and is the wrong person for building a team. I am so sick of him complaining all the time. I wonder how the team is copying with all his crap day in day out :uhoh:


Regardless of what has happened at previous teams, Alonso is not responsible for McLaren's problems. Being a 'team player' will not fix an under-performing engine.


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