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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:55 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
So what? I don't think Rowland is going to get the 2nd Renault seat either. Doesn't mean I can't speculate on it. Who would have put a bet on Rosberg retiring?

I guess were different then, I wouldn't speculate on something that I never thought was going to happen, that's believing that you think it might happen.


What? Just because I don't think something is going to happen doesn't mean it isn't possible.

I don't think Bottas is going to win this year's WDC but it is possible so no reason not to discuss it.
I don't think Hamilton is going to retire this year but it is possible so no reason not to discuss it.

Earlier on in the thread you were adamant Giovinazzi was ahead in the Ferrari pecking order, now you acknowledge he isn't. Things change.

I posted last time as I was due to go out so it was a quick reply, speculating on drivers in contention for seats or the WDC title that are on a short list is not quite the same as out of the blue speculating that a driver is going to retire in 1 or 2 years time, countless times I've seen this in respect to Hamilton without any kind of hint from Hamilton himself, even giving reasons why Hamilton might retire despite all his personal goals being achieved and yet he races on, I just find it a bit strange why people feel that Hamilton in particular might lack motivation to carry on.

As before, he has given hints?

He replied to a question asked by a reporter.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
He replied to a question asked by a reporter.


And didn't rule retirement out.

Not that it matters.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45 am 
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Considering that Vettel is angling to go to Mercedes in 2019 I think Ferrari should just bite the bullet and not rehire him in 2018 anyway. They should go for say Alonso and Leclerc and drop the current pair who I dont think have done the car full justice in their time together especially Kimi. That way Vettel can have his wish early and join Mercedes in 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:59 am 
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If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:27 am 
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Ferrari shouldn't, and I think will not accept a Number One driver signing for the for only one year. It's not their way, and they won't bend for Vettel on this. They should offer him only a 3 years deal, with a deadline to sign it by. If he doesn't sign it by then, get Alonso, along with.. Raikkonen? Leclerc?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:46 am 
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I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:54 am 
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Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:58 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


That 2nd seat is getting wasted big time since a few years!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:18 pm 
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They won't have to keep Kimi for 2019 if Vettel signs a 3 year deal though. Both Ricciardo and Hamilton are free in 2019 as well as Verstappen in 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:27 pm 
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mas wrote:
They won't have to keep Kimi for 2019 if Vettel signs a 3 year deal though. Both Ricciardo and Hamilton are free in 2019 as well as Verstappen in 2020.


The only reason they've to deal with Kimi is because of the good options that would be available for 2019 i.e. Ricciardo, Hamilton etc.

Ferrari don' want to either be opportunistic or gutsy to give a 1 year deal to an upcoming driver. I'm sure just like how Bottas blossomed into a fast & reliable driver, any other driver would produce similar results.

They keeping Kimi (as the unofficial no. 2) & jeopardizing their WCC hopes puts them in real bad light. They just want to please hoards of Kimi fans who by default also are Ferrari fans. Losing Kimi would mean losing all their support as well!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

In Vettel's first two years at Ferrari the Mercedes duo won 35 out of the 40 races between them and took 38 poles. Why wouldn't you sign an option if the chance arose, particularly as Ferrari went backwards in 2016?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:53 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

In Vettel's first two years at Ferrari the Mercedes duo won 35 out of the 40 races between them and took 38 poles. Why wouldn't you sign an option if the chance arose, particularly as Ferrari went backwards in 2016?


Because nothing lasts forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:38 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


That 2nd seat is getting wasted big time since a few years!


Yes, but that's how Ferrari operates these days. They want to repeat the Schumacher-times and just have not much interest in the second car.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


That 2nd seat is getting wasted big time since a few years!


Yes, but that's how Ferrari operates these days. They want to repeat the Schumacher-times and just have not much interest in the second car.


Bullsh1t

Yes... they would love to repeat the Schumacher years...when they frequently finished as WCC as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:07 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Alonso it's clear he has no intention of packing in racing anytime soon, he has set himself goals past the end of his F1 career, his only problem presently is finding a better car.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of why people are speculating on Hamilton retiring. Goals. Alonso has set himself the goal of a third WDC, or - failing that - the Triple Crown. Hamilton, on the other hand, from very early in his career always talked about Senna's records, and how much it would mean to him to equal them. He's done that; he's achieved his goal. Schumacher's records have never mattered as much to him, so in fact there is something about him that's very much like Rosberg: he's done what he came to F1 to do.

Will he keep racing? Who knows. But there is a reason Hamilton might retire from F1 before he's old, if he's no longer motivated by just racking up more titles, wins, etc.

Nail. Head.

The reason no one is speculating a retirement from Hulkenberg or Grosjean is that they have not yet reached the goals every F1 driver set on themselves. You retire prematurely only when you have either reached your goal or realized you cannot.

So what goals has Hamilton set, the 3 titles set by Senna which he achieved in 2015, Senna's pole position record which he broke this season, why is Hamilton still racing on if he has apparently reached all his goals?

Do you think I meant he'd drop his gloves and walk away as soon as the goals are reached, mid season even?
Obviously it's possible he'll race for many more years (you seem to think someone is suggesting he'll definitely retire at the end of the year which I don't think anyone's doing), but his life long dream of matching Senna has come true so it wouldn't be as big of a shock as Rosberg's announcement.
He could retire and that's a fact. So could anyone on the grid, but what possible reason would e.g. Hulkenberg or Ricciardo have to retire?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:04 am 
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Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


That 2nd seat is getting wasted big time since a few years!


Yes, but that's how Ferrari operates these days. They want to repeat the Schumacher-times and just have not much interest in the second car.


Bullsh1t

Yes... they would love to repeat the Schumacher years...when they frequently finished as WCC as well.


Is it coincidence Ferrari have managed to run drivers able to compete with each other only thrice in the last 23 seasons? I don't think Ferrari cares about the second car as long as the driver stays out of trouble and does what they say.

The continued presence of Raikkonen in that car, as well as his demeanour in it is a testament to that. As was Massa before him.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:07 am 
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Alonso it's clear he has no intention of packing in racing anytime soon, he has set himself goals past the end of his F1 career, his only problem presently is finding a better car.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of why people are speculating on Hamilton retiring. Goals. Alonso has set himself the goal of a third WDC, or - failing that - the Triple Crown. Hamilton, on the other hand, from very early in his career always talked about Senna's records, and how much it would mean to him to equal them. He's done that; he's achieved his goal. Schumacher's records have never mattered as much to him, so in fact there is something about him that's very much like Rosberg: he's done what he came to F1 to do.

Will he keep racing? Who knows. But there is a reason Hamilton might retire from F1 before he's old, if he's no longer motivated by just racking up more titles, wins, etc.

Nail. Head.

The reason no one is speculating a retirement from Hulkenberg or Grosjean is that they have not yet reached the goals every F1 driver set on themselves. You retire prematurely only when you have either reached your goal or realized you cannot.

So what goals has Hamilton set, the 3 titles set by Senna which he achieved in 2015, Senna's pole position record which he broke this season, why is Hamilton still racing on if he has apparently reached all his goals?

Do you think I meant he'd drop his gloves and walk away as soon as the goals are reached, mid season even?
Obviously it's possible he'll race for many more years (you seem to think someone is suggesting he'll definitely retire at the end of the year which I don't think anyone's doing), but his life long dream of matching Senna has come true so it wouldn't be as big of a shock as Rosberg's announcement.
He could retire and that's a fact. So could anyone on the grid, but what possible reason would e.g. Hulkenberg or Ricciardo have to retire?


Hamilton has already been asked this and responded that it is the love of driving F1 that he keeps racing for. If that love changes, he will retire. This year's cars have been cited by many drivers and being exciting to drive, so it is not hard to imagine that Hamilton is enjoying driving them too.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:32 pm 
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mas wrote:
Considering that Vettel is angling to go to Mercedes in 2019 I think Ferrari should just bite the bullet and not rehire him in 2018 anyway. They should go for say Alonso and Leclerc and drop the current pair who I dont think have done the car full justice in their time together especially Kimi. That way Vettel can have his wish early and join Mercedes in 2018.

Yep you would think but it looks like no one wants Alonso.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:37 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?

Alonso tried to do that in 2014 but Mercedes were not interested however with Vettel I think it would be different they obviously are looking to sign him already but then again do they have the final say, Hamilton is still under contract after all.

It's rather sad that considering that both Vettel and Bottas are out of contract the only way it's seen that Vettel joins Mercedes is if Hamilton leaves.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:40 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Ferrari shouldn't, and I think will not accept a Number One driver signing for the for only one year. It's not their way, and they won't bend for Vettel on this. They should offer him only a 3 years deal, with a deadline to sign it by. If he doesn't sign it by then, get Alonso, along with.. Raikkonen? Leclerc?

Strategically in respect of the WDC and a lesser extent to the WCC, you would think an Alonso/Bottas line up would look quite good whilst Hamilton/Vettel knock spots off one another at Mercedes?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

Vettel has been at Ferrari 2 and a half years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?

Alonso tried to do that in 2014 but Mercedes were not interested however with Vettel I think it would be different they obviously are looking to sign him already but then again do they have the final say, Hamilton is still under contract after all.

It's rather sad that considering that both Vettel and Bottas are out of contract the only way it's seen that Vettel joins Mercedes is if Hamilton leaves.


It's interesting though that in a years time we could be in a situation where Hamilton wants to join Ferrari and Vettel wants to join Mercedes.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Alonso it's clear he has no intention of packing in racing anytime soon, he has set himself goals past the end of his F1 career, his only problem presently is finding a better car.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of why people are speculating on Hamilton retiring. Goals. Alonso has set himself the goal of a third WDC, or - failing that - the Triple Crown. Hamilton, on the other hand, from very early in his career always talked about Senna's records, and how much it would mean to him to equal them. He's done that; he's achieved his goal. Schumacher's records have never mattered as much to him, so in fact there is something about him that's very much like Rosberg: he's done what he came to F1 to do.

Will he keep racing? Who knows. But there is a reason Hamilton might retire from F1 before he's old, if he's no longer motivated by just racking up more titles, wins, etc.

Nail. Head.

The reason no one is speculating a retirement from Hulkenberg or Grosjean is that they have not yet reached the goals every F1 driver set on themselves. You retire prematurely only when you have either reached your goal or realized you cannot.

So what goals has Hamilton set, the 3 titles set by Senna which he achieved in 2015, Senna's pole position record which he broke this season, why is Hamilton still racing on if he has apparently reached all his goals?

Do you think I meant he'd drop his gloves and walk away as soon as the goals are reached, mid season even?
Obviously it's possible he'll race for many more years (you seem to think someone is suggesting he'll definitely retire at the end of the year which I don't think anyone's doing), but his life long dream of matching Senna has come true so it wouldn't be as big of a shock as Rosberg's announcement.
He could retire and that's a fact. So could anyone on the grid, but what possible reason would e.g. Hulkenberg or Ricciardo have to retire?

I'm bringing forward Hamilton retiring this year or next year because that's what some people have actually put forward, using the Senna tie up then he retires at the end of this year otherwise that theory has no legs.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:50 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?

Alonso tried to do that in 2014 but Mercedes were not interested however with Vettel I think it would be different they obviously are looking to sign him already but then again do they have the final say, Hamilton is still under contract after all.

It's rather sad that considering that both Vettel and Bottas are out of contract the only way it's seen that Vettel joins Mercedes is if Hamilton leaves.


It's interesting though that in a years time we could be in a situation where Hamilton wants to join Ferrari and Vettel wants to join Mercedes.

For 2019 you mean which would require Ferrari to bend over backwards for him, for that to happen Alonso must be really unwanted at both Ferrari and Mercedes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Agree with BlackFlag, Vettel stays put at Ferrari with a 3-year-deal and KR gets another lapdog year.


That 2nd seat is getting wasted big time since a few years!


Yes, but that's how Ferrari operates these days. They want to repeat the Schumacher-times and just have not much interest in the second car.


Bullsh1t

Yes... they would love to repeat the Schumacher years...when they frequently finished as WCC as well.


Well, we'll see whether they'll resign KR or go for a more competitive driver. My money is on another year for KR (unless he himself decided to retire).
;)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?

Alonso tried to do that in 2014 but Mercedes were not interested however with Vettel I think it would be different they obviously are looking to sign him already but then again do they have the final say, Hamilton is still under contract after all.

It's rather sad that considering that both Vettel and Bottas are out of contract the only way it's seen that Vettel joins Mercedes is if Hamilton leaves.


It's interesting though that in a years time we could be in a situation where Hamilton wants to join Ferrari and Vettel wants to join Mercedes.

For 2019 you mean which would require Ferrari to bend over backwards for him, for that to happen Alonso must be really unwanted at both Ferrari and Mercedes.


Yes that would be for 2019. Alonso will be 38 in 2019. That's getting on a bit really. Merc or Ferrari may just feel they can't afford to miss out on having 3 seasons of Vettel/Hamilton for one season of Alonso.

Or he could just be both team's second choice behind Hamilton and Vettel. So still pretty wanted.

I don't think Ferrari would have to bend over backwards for Hamilton. If they want him they'll have him.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Wonder when will the silly season start to roll in effect?

There is a lot of potential for movement in the midfield. Even though Kimi getting the seat is certain, till he's not officially confirmed, there could be a movement there. As for Renault, I wonder if Kubica is coming over in Spa. Retaining Palmer will not create some missing magic & Renault will be languishing below in the midfield.

Perez may be retained or could leave Force India if he feels Ocon's rising stock will diminish his stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

Vettel has been at Ferrari 2 and a half years now.

Yes and the rumours about Mercedes are that he signed some form of agreement in 2016 when Ferrari faltered and fell back behind Red Bull. At which point he had been with them for one and a half years, which doesn't seem very logical to me given the reasons above.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:40 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If Mercedes were offered a Vettel/Hamilton swap would they accept?

Alonso tried to do that in 2014 but Mercedes were not interested however with Vettel I think it would be different they obviously are looking to sign him already but then again do they have the final say, Hamilton is still under contract after all.

It's rather sad that considering that both Vettel and Bottas are out of contract the only way it's seen that Vettel joins Mercedes is if Hamilton leaves.


It's interesting though that in a years time we could be in a situation where Hamilton wants to join Ferrari and Vettel wants to join Mercedes.

For 2019 you mean which would require Ferrari to bend over backwards for him, for that to happen Alonso must be really unwanted at both Ferrari and Mercedes.


Yes that would be for 2019. Alonso will be 38 in 2019. That's getting on a bit really. Merc or Ferrari may just feel they can't afford to miss out on having 3 seasons of Vettel/Hamilton for one season of Alonso.

Or he could just be both team's second choice behind Hamilton and Vettel. So still pretty wanted.

I don't think Ferrari would have to bend over backwards for Hamilton. If they want him they'll have him.

No the bending over backwards bit was in reference to Ferrari allowing Vettel just a 1 year contract so he could decide who he wants to drive for in 2019.

Drivers normally only sign 2 or 3 year contracts, I'm sure that Alonso is good for 1 more contract say over 2 years, and if you have one of the best cars there's no problem finding a top driver for the car post Alonso.

In this respect I'm surprised that Ferrari don't force Vettel's hand and threaten to sign Alonso if he doesn't sign a 3 year contract then he's either up against Alonso at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes for 2018, Alonso must have been somewhat toxic at Ferrari for them to allow Vettel to hold all the cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

Vettel has been at Ferrari 2 and a half years now.

Yes and the rumours about Mercedes are that he signed some form of agreement in 2016 when Ferrari faltered and fell back behind Red Bull. At which point he had been with them for one and a half years, which doesn't seem very logical to me given the reasons above.

I think you're sort of stringing that out, both Rosberg and Hamilton were under contract at Mercedes until 2019, any pre contract with Mercedes I believe was signed after Rosberg announced his retirement at the end of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

Vettel has been at Ferrari 2 and a half years now.

Yes and the rumours about Mercedes are that he signed some form of agreement in 2016 when Ferrari faltered and fell back behind Red Bull. At which point he had been with them for one and a half years, which doesn't seem very logical to me given the reasons above.

I think you're sort of stringing that out, both Rosberg and Hamilton were under contract at Mercedes until 2019, any pre contract with Mercedes I believe was signed after Rosberg announced his retirement at the end of the season.

I don't believe any pre contract was signed as was pretty much the whole point of my first post, so I'm not sure what I'm supposedly 'stringing out' :?

The rumours I've heard thrown around by pundits are that some sort of agreement was made in 2016. So if we assume for the sake of argument that it's true then IMO it's possible but not very likely that this was done after Rosberg left very late in 2016. Again, I don't believe in this supposed Mercedes agreement at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I get the feeling we will get the news Vettel has signed a 3 year deal at Monza. The rumours of Vettel signing an agreement with Mercedes in 2016 because of an underperforming Ferrari doesn't sound right to me, he had been there 1 and a half years and there was a huge regulation change coming up in a matter of months, it would be very shortsighted for Vettel to look to change teams at that moment in time IMO.

It also doesn't sound right that after all the supposed dreams of driving for Ferrari and taking them back to a world championship like his hero did, he would get bored and give up after one and a half years. Surely Vettel couldn't have expected to emulate Michael in that short of a timeframe?

That said there's a lot of smoke around it so maybe it's at least partially true, in which case I'd still expect a 3 year deal but maybe with only the first being locked in and then subsequent years being based on performance, if Ferrari would even agree to that.

Vettel has been at Ferrari 2 and a half years now.

Yes and the rumours about Mercedes are that he signed some form of agreement in 2016 when Ferrari faltered and fell back behind Red Bull. At which point he had been with them for one and a half years, which doesn't seem very logical to me given the reasons above.

I think you're sort of stringing that out, both Rosberg and Hamilton were under contract at Mercedes until 2019, any pre contract with Mercedes I believe was signed after Rosberg announced his retirement at the end of the season.

I don't believe any pre contract was signed as was pretty much the whole point of my first post, so I'm not sure what I'm supposedly 'stringing out' :?

The rumours I've heard thrown around by pundits are that some sort of agreement was made in 2016. So if we assume for the sake of argument that it's true then IMO it's possible but not very likely that this was done after Rosberg left very late in 2016. Again, I don't believe in this supposed Mercedes agreement at all.

I was just correcting the timeline to the supposed pre contract with Mercedes which I believe actually made perfect sense for Vettel at that time given the fall back in performance of Ferrari, this also would tie in with Bottas only getting a 1 year contract at Mercedes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of why people are speculating on Hamilton retiring. Goals. Alonso has set himself the goal of a third WDC, or - failing that - the Triple Crown. Hamilton, on the other hand, from very early in his career always talked about Senna's records, and how much it would mean to him to equal them. He's done that; he's achieved his goal. Schumacher's records have never mattered as much to him, so in fact there is something about him that's very much like Rosberg: he's done what he came to F1 to do.

Will he keep racing? Who knows. But there is a reason Hamilton might retire from F1 before he's old, if he's no longer motivated by just racking up more titles, wins, etc.

Nail. Head.

The reason no one is speculating a retirement from Hulkenberg or Grosjean is that they have not yet reached the goals every F1 driver set on themselves. You retire prematurely only when you have either reached your goal or realized you cannot.

So what goals has Hamilton set, the 3 titles set by Senna which he achieved in 2015, Senna's pole position record which he broke this season, why is Hamilton still racing on if he has apparently reached all his goals?

Do you think I meant he'd drop his gloves and walk away as soon as the goals are reached, mid season even?
Obviously it's possible he'll race for many more years (you seem to think someone is suggesting he'll definitely retire at the end of the year which I don't think anyone's doing), but his life long dream of matching Senna has come true so it wouldn't be as big of a shock as Rosberg's announcement.
He could retire and that's a fact. So could anyone on the grid, but what possible reason would e.g. Hulkenberg or Ricciardo have to retire?

I'm bringing forward Hamilton retiring this year or next year because that's what some people have actually put forward, using the Senna tie up then he retires at the end of this year otherwise that theory has no legs.

No one knows what his goals are and when he´s done with racing, but I´m pretty sure Hulkenberg and Grosjean (who you brought up) have unfinished business in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:57 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Nail. Head.

The reason no one is speculating a retirement from Hulkenberg or Grosjean is that they have not yet reached the goals every F1 driver set on themselves. You retire prematurely only when you have either reached your goal or realized you cannot.

So what goals has Hamilton set, the 3 titles set by Senna which he achieved in 2015, Senna's pole position record which he broke this season, why is Hamilton still racing on if he has apparently reached all his goals?

Do you think I meant he'd drop his gloves and walk away as soon as the goals are reached, mid season even?
Obviously it's possible he'll race for many more years (you seem to think someone is suggesting he'll definitely retire at the end of the year which I don't think anyone's doing), but his life long dream of matching Senna has come true so it wouldn't be as big of a shock as Rosberg's announcement.
He could retire and that's a fact. So could anyone on the grid, but what possible reason would e.g. Hulkenberg or Ricciardo have to retire?

I'm bringing forward Hamilton retiring this year or next year because that's what some people have actually put forward, using the Senna tie up then he retires at the end of this year otherwise that theory has no legs.

No one knows what his goals are and when he´s done with racing, but I´m pretty sure Hulkenberg and Grosjean (who you brought up) have unfinished business in F1.

You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:24 am 
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pokerman wrote:
You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:36 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

Quite true but then there is Vettel, Kimi and Massa, why say does Vettel still have this burning desire that some see as perhaps lacking in Hamilton?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:44 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

Quite true but then there is Vettel, Kimi and Massa, why say does Vettel still have this burning desire that some see as perhaps lacking in Hamilton?

Kimi and Massa, really? Ignoring the fact both have already once retired, their re-retirements are constantly being talked about :lol:
Vettel is a bit more valid comparison as he'd had even more success than Lewis and is of the same generation, but my feeling is that he'll be around longer than Lewis as he's a couple years younger and has fewer endeavors outside of the sport.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

Quite true but then there is Vettel, Kimi and Massa, why say does Vettel still have this burning desire that some see as perhaps lacking in Hamilton?

Kimi and Massa, really? Ignoring the fact both have already once retired, their re-retirements are constantly being talked about :lol:
Vettel is a bit more valid comparison as he'd had even more success than Lewis and is of the same generation, but my feeling is that he'll be around longer than Lewis as he's a couple years younger and has fewer endeavors outside of the sport.

Neither Kimi or Massa retired of their own doing, they were not wanted basically and that's how their careers will end with them being put out to pasture.

Meanwhile what does the man himself say about his future?

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/143064-wil ... e-hamilton

That doesn't sound like a driver about to retire anytime soon, however, STOP PRESS, Hamilton to leave Mercedes to join either Williams or Ferrari. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You are sure that the Hulk and Grosjean have unfinished business in F1 but not so sure about Hamilton?

I only brought them up because apparently when you turn 30 then questions need to be asked.

You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

Quite true but then there is Vettel, Kimi and Massa, why say does Vettel still have this burning desire that some see as perhaps lacking in Hamilton?

Kimi and Massa, really? Ignoring the fact both have already once retired, their re-retirements are constantly being talked about :lol:
Vettel is a bit more valid comparison as he'd had even more success than Lewis and is of the same generation, but my feeling is that he'll be around longer than Lewis as he's a couple years younger and has fewer endeavors outside of the sport.

Neither Kimi or Massa retired of their own doing, they were not wanted basically and that's how their careers will end with them being put out to pasture.

Meanwhile what does the man himself say about his future?

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/143064-wil ... e-hamilton

That doesn't sound like a driver about to retire anytime soon, however, STOP PRESS, Hamilton to leave Mercedes to join either Williams or Ferrari. ;)


Raikkonen chose to leave he could've driven for Mclaren.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:46 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
You're getting a bit silly about this, poker. Grosjean and Hulk have yet to win a race, let alone a championship. Of course they have unfinished business in F1, and of course it's more likely Hamilton is ready to retire.

I get that you're defending your driver, but it's just not reasonable to claim two drivers who haven't even won a GP are as likely to be satisfied with their F1 careers as he is.

Quite true but then there is Vettel, Kimi and Massa, why say does Vettel still have this burning desire that some see as perhaps lacking in Hamilton?

Kimi and Massa, really? Ignoring the fact both have already once retired, their re-retirements are constantly being talked about :lol:
Vettel is a bit more valid comparison as he'd had even more success than Lewis and is of the same generation, but my feeling is that he'll be around longer than Lewis as he's a couple years younger and has fewer endeavors outside of the sport.

Neither Kimi or Massa retired of their own doing, they were not wanted basically and that's how their careers will end with them being put out to pasture.

Meanwhile what does the man himself say about his future?

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/143064-wil ... e-hamilton

That doesn't sound like a driver about to retire anytime soon, however, STOP PRESS, Hamilton to leave Mercedes to join either Williams or Ferrari. ;)


Raikkonen chose to leave he could've driven for Mclaren.

They didn't offer him enough money and did he ever say that he had retired from F1?

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