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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:41 am 
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Rate drivers past and/or present in the following categories. Do you feel there should be more? Then feel free to also add your own. Let's have it be out of 10, although some categories are more important than others. Or you can produce a power ranking per category for the current grid or whatever you wish.

Qualifying
Race pace
Race craft
Wet
Starts
Consistency


Last edited by Invade on Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:28 pm 
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For the current grid:
Qualifying
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Ricciardo
4. Vettel
5. Sainz (might be higher but not yet proven)
Race pace
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Verstappen
5. Ricciardo
Race craft
1. Ricciardo
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Verstappen
5. Vettel
Wet
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel
4. Alonso
5. Sainz
Starts
1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Ocon
4. Vettel
5. Bottas
Consistency
1. Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Perez


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:36 pm 
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I can see you rate Sainz highly. So do I, and so I'm sure we're both extremely curious about what the battles with Hulkenberg will prove. There's quite a lot of new rising talent making their way in F1 right now and who will be the best of the bunch is very difficult to predict - though most of us will plump for Max. After Max though it gets tough. Ocon has certainly had a solid and promising start thus far against a tough competitor in Perez.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:43 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
For the current grid:
Qualifying
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Ricciardo
4. Vettel
5. Sainz (might be higher but not yet proven)
Race pace
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Verstappen
5. Ricciardo
Race craft
1. Ricciardo
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Verstappen
5. Vettel
Wet
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel
4. Alonso
5. Sainz
Starts
1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Ocon
4. Vettel
5. Bottas
Consistency
1. Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Perez

I'm not sure I could rate Sainz that high for qualifying. Mid season, if you worked out the average distance in qualifying between Sainz and Kvyat, it was something like 0.005 seconds towards Kvyat being slightly better. Since then, Sainz has been ahead more often but Kvyat qualified ahead in Italy. But overall, Sainz hasn't been much better than Kvyat in qualifying. And Kvyat is considered to be having a terrible season. Even in Kvyats decent season in 2015, he was clearly dominated by Ricciardo in qualifying. and Ricciardo is looking quit a bit lower than Verstappen in ths area too now. So overall, I think it is a bit much rating Sinz this close to Ricciardo concidering Kvyat wasn't that much worse. Of course things could change in the future.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:13 am 
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Any other takers for boring racer rankings?!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:27 am 
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I find Bottas fairly boring as a driver.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:33 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
I find Bottas fairly boring as a driver.


:twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:23 am 
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I definitely don't rate Sainz so highly as the hype train around here, and how can you when he's never been at the sharp end of the grid competing? He has outclassed a severely mentally defeated Kvyat. I think the top 5 are Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Ricciardo and Verstappen but they are all really strong in every area, when it comes to drivers like Hulk and Perez who are also clearly extremely good we've never seen them in competitive machinery so it's not really possible to make a straight comparison.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:26 am 
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I don't think Hamilton and Ricciardo have been that impressive in starts based on the evidence of the last couple of seasons. I checked all the starts so far for this season and Verstappen definitely impressed me the most of the top runners in that area.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:46 am 
This is a fun one!

Qualifying:
Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Vettel
Grosjean (yes I know).

Race pace:
Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Alonso
Vettel

Race craft:
Alonso
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Verstappen (when he behaves)
Bottas

Wet:
Hamilton
Verstappen
Alonso
Vettel

Starts:
Alonso
Verstappen
Hamilton
Vettel

Consistency:
Alonso
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Vettel
Räikönnen (consistently good, or consistently bad).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:52 am 
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I think qualifying is a nuanced one. I'm unsure of how many of Verstappen's laps were real stonkers, but he is dominating Ricciardo in qualifying. We've generally more readily noticed the truly blistering laps which Hamilton and Vettel put in on some weekends. Two good recent examples are Hamilton at Silverstone and Vettel at Singapore. I tend to think that Hamilton gets it the rightest the most often but also puts in more substandard performances, though I'm not sure if that's his nature of the nature of the car or what mix. Vettel still gets it right often enough and also puts together several of his own pretty much faultless laps. I need to watch Verstappen more closely, but it cannot be ignored how he's consistently besting Ricciardo, who is considered to be a very good qualifier.

I just don't really know how to judge Alonso right now in Vandoorne's rookie season but there's nothing to suggest he's anything short of being an excellent qualifier.

Somebody might be able to throw stats my way that throws this completely out of the water but that's the impression I've got.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:59 am 
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Invade wrote:
I think qualifying is a nuanced one. I'm unsure of how many of Verstappen's laps were real stonkers, but he is dominating Ricciardo in qualifying. We've generally more readily noticed the truly blistering laps which Hamilton and Vettel put in on some weekends. Two good recent examples are Hamilton at Silverstone and Vettel at Singapore. I tend to think that Hamilton gets it the rightest the most often but also puts in more substandard performances, though I'm not sure if that's his nature of the nature of the car or what mix. Vettel still gets it right often enough and also puts together several of his own pretty much faultless laps. I need to watch Verstappen more closely, but it cannot be ignored how he's consistently besting Ricciardo, who is considered to be a very good qualifier.

I just don't really know how to judge Alonso right now in Vandoorne's rookie season but there's nothing to suggest he's anything short of being an excellent qualifier.

Somebody might be able to throw stats my way that throws this completely out of the water but that's the impression I've got.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:14 pm 
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I think the definition of dominating needs defining - Max has generally beaten Dan by .1 of a second or less - or maybe .1 sec on ave (and the other way when it happens as well) I'd have thought that was pretty damn even - dominating for me is .3-.5 secs

What do others think?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:19 pm 
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F1Oz wrote:
I think the definition of dominating needs defining - Max has generally beaten Dan by .1 of a second or less - or maybe .1 sec on ave (and the other way when it happens as well) I'd have thought that was pretty damn even - dominating for me is .3-.5 secs

What do others think?

I'd agree for qualifying that anything less than a tenth is as much even as makes no odds, with the caveat that if one driver is consistently the one ahead that indicates they are slightly better. I think I mentioned as much recently in the Max vs Dan thread. As they are so consistently close, it suggests to me that they are getting the absolute maximum out of the car. Dominating is something more on the lines of what Lewis and Seb are doing to their team mates overall.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:22 pm 
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It's close and it's a great driver pairing - possibly the best on the grid. Ricciardo almost always presents a very high level benchmark in qualifying and though I think his race pace is not as consistently excellent as a few others his race craft is possibly second to none with his only relative weakness of that craft being the starts. Even though Max is beating Dan in qualifying, I still think Dan is one of the best qualifiers on the grid which is something that can't be said for Bottas or Kimi.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:44 pm 
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F1Oz wrote:
I think the definition of dominating needs defining - Max has generally beaten Dan by .1 of a second or less - or maybe .1 sec on ave (and the other way when it happens as well) I'd have thought that was pretty damn even - dominating for me is .3-.5 secs

What do others think?


Not even close to dominating.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Qualifying:
Hamilton
Verstappen
Vettel
Alonso
Hulkenberg

Race pace:
Alonso
Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Vettel

Race craft:
Ricciardo
Alonso
Hamilton
Bottas
Perez

Wet:
Hamilton
Verstappen
Hulkenberg
Vettel
Alonso

Starts:
Alonso
Perez
Ricciardo
Verstappen
Vettel

Consistency:
Alonso
Vettel
Ricciardo
Hamilton
Perez


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
I think the definition of dominating needs defining - Max has generally beaten Dan by .1 of a second or less - or maybe .1 sec on ave (and the other way when it happens as well) I'd have thought that was pretty damn even - dominating for me is .3-.5 secs

What do others think?

I'd agree for qualifying that anything less than a tenth is as much even as makes no odds, with the caveat that if one driver is consistently the one ahead that indicates they are slightly better. I think I mentioned as much recently in the Max vs Dan thread. As they are so consistently close, it suggests to me that they are getting the absolute maximum out of the car. Dominating is something more on the lines of what Lewis and Seb are doing to their team mates overall.

It depends on what the word is referring to; "dominating qualifying" isn´t accurate enough. Verstappen is dominating the head to head battle with Ricciardo, but the laps themselves haven´t been dominant when looked at individually.
I guess a season-long qualifying performace includes a bit of both so while it´s not the word I´d use, I understand (and won´t contest it) if someone says Max has been dominating.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Qualifying
    1. Hamilton
    2. Verstappen
    3. Ricciardo
    4. Vettel
    5. Alonso

Race pace
    1. Alonso
    2. Hamilton/Verstappen/Ricciardo
    5. Vettel

Race craft
    1. Alonso
    2. Ricciardo
    3. Hamilton
    4. Vettel
    5. Verstappen

Wet
    1. Hamilton
    2. Verstappen
    3. Vettel
    4. Sainz
    5. Ricciardo


I'm not knowledgable enough to comment on starts or consistency.

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