planetf1.com

Enjoyable and interesting thread.

RE: http://www.planetf1.com/news/stroll-rat ... out-of-10/

Seriously? Strong 8.5???

I am giving him time but it will run out midway thru next season.... he has managed points but everything about him is inconsistent bar the fact he makes the same mistakes again and again.

(anyone else listen on radio 5 live in uk? Most fun and insightful commenentary of the lot IMO ATM)

Have fun

_________________
“The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah

I gave him a 6, the majority gave him a 5, 8.5 is somewhat delusional, his qualifying was terrible.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Both were also outperformed by their teammates who were good but not great drivers (Ralf & Massa).

It's easy to forget that Stroll just turned 19. He's still younger than everyone on the grid but Verstappen was when they made their debut.

Yes, he was terrible in Brazil, but I still see the potential of a good driver there. He dominated Formula 3 at the age of 17.

TBF I don't read much into that. It was hardly a level playing field.

I agree though he has plenty of upside right now. He just needs to keep improving.

I'd like to know where they are getting all his crashes from. Are they counting practice? In qualifying and the races, he's crashed less than Verstappen did in his first year from what I remember. That being once in China. I don't remember him crashing out again but correct me if I'm wrong. Verstappen crashed out very heavily in Monaco and crashed out in Britain too in his first season.

I listen to BBC radio 5 live while watching Sky practice on mute quite often. As they talk about what is on the coverage far more than Crofty does. It's much better than Sky during practice, but for me, nothing beats Channel 4. I hope they keep doing the highlights package in 2019 onwards.

I seem to remember quite a few crashes, especially at the beginning of the season. I think it took 4 races to get a finish, no? One of those was a brake or power steering issue iirc but the others were thru contact. I am not saying the contact was his fault, in fact he seems to have been involved in quite a lot of contact that wasn't his fault. Sainz out of the pits, Vettel on post-race cool down lap both spring to mind, and yip, he kept his mechanics busy repairing practice damage fairly often iirc (as did Massa). The article perhaps should have been more clear. He's also done some silly things that Verstappen didn't. Spinning himself on lap 1, repeatedly locking up in unsuccessful overtake manoeuvres and destroying his tyres and how he has avoided being penalised for ignoring blue flags I have no idea. (except idr anyone ever being penalised for that!)

However, he is certainly no Maldonado when it comes to crashing (and brings more money, no?) so Williams are probably still smiling.

The reason I mentioned the coverage was because Tom, the pitlane guy, was watching the slow stadium section in Mexico practice, and was amazed by how Stroll was making the same mistake every lap. It appears to be his main consistency, which throws his chances of improvement into doubt imho.

I do hope C4 can get some deal for the coming years, especially now with Mark Webber, but fear Sky have got a very tight exclusive contract.

Have fun

_________________
“The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah

Yea I did only mean mistakes that were his own fault that resulted in retirement when comparing to verstappen's first season. But rookies do make mistakes. I remember on 1 or 2 occasions when Verstappen had technical problems and got told to pull over in practice or qualifying I think, he left the car in the most inconvenient place imaginable when there was a better, even easier option he could have done. Even Ben Edwards who raves about Verstappen said that was a typical rookie mistake so we should allow Stroll to make a few. I also remember at the begginning of 2016 in the first race I think, Verstappen had several messy attempts at overtaking Sainz and he kept locking up and then ended up spinning himself. And that was in his 2nd season. Stroll has managed to be involved in a lot of incidents but then we can't really say Verstappen hasn't this season either. In Verstappen's case, he had contact in Spain, Canada, Austria, Hungary, Italy and Singapore and at leased half of them have been related to taking big risks. Even coming across damaging Hamilton's front wing the way he did in Mexico was very lucky that it didn't result in a puncture at his rear. So in terms of being involved in clashes that were mostly not his fault, Stroll hasn't really been much worse off than Verstappen. But clearly in all other areas, Stroll has been really poor most of the time.

About who has been penalised for blue flags, it is just the McLaren pair. Your wouldn't have thought that it would be them two to get penalties like that. The only other driver I seem to remember getting a penalty for this in recent years was Gutierrez last year.

That was a championship that his father bought and paid for. He was running a team with 3 times the budget of anyone else.

I think the jury is still out on Lance. Certainly he has had a few impressive drives this year. I thought his weekends at Baku and Monza were particularly strong. What I haven't seen from him is anything truly special behind the wheel. I haven't seen an amazing start, a great overtake or a brilliant defense. I haven't seen him pounce on one of his rivals and take a position for them in an impressive way.

What I see is someone who seems to have the ability to be fairly quick at times but who is NOT consistently quick and who does not have elite racing instincts. Comparing him to Max might be a bit unfair but I would certainly say that Max, by the time he was Lance's age, had showed us a lot more in the way of racecraft and raw pace than we've seen from Lance. Right now I feel confident that Lance can be a journeyman-level driver in F1 but I do not see a superstar. I just don't see the toughness and aggressiveness of an elite driver.

He was bought every advantage possible in F3, it's interesting even now the influence the Stroll's still have on the junior classes with the veto being put on Norris joining Prema Racing in F2.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Good points, well made.

You surprise me the McLaren guys are the most recent blue flag transgressors! Thanks for the info.

Have fun

_________________
“The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah

I really think people put too much emphasis on the team in the lower series. Prema is the F2 champion team because Leclerc is driving for them; with Fuoco as their lead driver, they wouldn't even be in the ballpark of challenging (and they still have a good likelihood of losing the team championship despite having the dominant driver in their car). If Norris is as good as he looks, he'll win with whatever team he gets.

That aside, I agree that Stroll did buy every advantage possible in F3 - just like he has done in F1. But even with advantages you can't dominate unless you're good enough, as evidenced by the fact that all the advantages he's bought himself in F1 have not allowed him to dominate Massa. I personally do not believe the rumors about his car having secret and illegal parts from Williams on it. Based on his comparison to Massa he's probably a faster driver than the likes of Palmer, and that means he's good enough to win against a mediocre junior field.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017

I thought Stroll's battle with Grosjean was quite entertaining. Very good defensive driving. It also shows that he knows how to race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF1uqSFLfsU

He just lacks pace more often than not.

We'll see how he goes next year. Although old sayings are often overly general they do tend to have some truth to them and Lance seems to fall into the "It's easier to make a fast driver a better racer than it is to make a good racer fast" trope.

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He had a really disappointing end to the season. I wonder how much progress really has been made. The sort of performance we saw in Brazil and Abu Dhabi were unacceptable for a driver in the top echelon of motorsport.

I feel the smartest thing for the Strolls to do is to pull Lance out of F1 and put him back in the lower formulae until he is ready. I don't think this is doing his long term career any favours.

Regarding secret illegal parts from Williams I think you might be getting confused with what happened in F3?

When do we ever hear of Williams getting pulled up for dodgy parts in F1?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

I'm not getting confused, I'm directly talking about F3 and saying I don't believe it happened.

I believe he was good enough to win F3, and better than some of the weaker drivers we've seen in F1 recently (such as Palmer). Winning F3 isn't an F1-worthy achievement.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017

The very fact he was battling Grosjean shows the issues with his pace. He still looks like a work in progress.

He is only 19 and I'm not going to compare him to Verstappen, but even the 19/20 year old Jaime Algesuari looked a more rounded driver than Stroll now does.

Going to be an interesting day today with kubica getting to run on low fuel. Depending on how he does the comments should be good.

If he's still slower than stroll does that mean that

Stroll is better than some posters thought
Massa is better than some posters gave him credit for
Kubica is not as good as posters thought
The car is really fairy cakes and finished it should have

At the end of today a lot of important questions are going to be answered for williams.

In strolls case a lot of posters forget the relationship between engineer and driver is very important and may be part of the reason for strolls inconsistency. It seems there have been a few times this year where they seem to be lost when it comes to qualifying. When they do find a good setup stroll has been able to run at a very competitive pace and finish ahead of massa. I don't think there is anyone here who will say that williams produced a very good car this year. Evan with massa's experience there were some races where it was just plain bad. I'm sure (hoping like h#ll) that next years car under paddy will be much better.

In my personal - and potentially harsh - opinion, if he's slower than Stroll it means he should never have come back.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017

So kubica beats strolls time by .095.

Would massa have beat it by .500?
Was the track better?

So many fun questions

...or it's just testing?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

"Just testing" I doubt robert looks at it as just testing, he's fighting for his racing career.

But we can’t be sure that Stroll’s and Kubica’s times were set on similar fuel loads/engine modes etc. Williams will be using this for more than just comparing the two, they will want a lot of data and be trying different things out as a result.

They could have given one driver more fuel than the other for example and then simply take that into account when comparing them as they will have a decent idea of how much stuff like that would effect the times.

Be honest, for kubica's fans, if he had been 1 sec quicker than stroll the fact that it was a test wouldn't mean anything. This is what the forum all about, having opinions about who's faster.

In that respect it was not possible to tell.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Was hoping Stroll would have been better so we had a Canadian in F1. I just don’t see it though. I saw a deteriorating Massa wipe the floor with him. I have every confidence Lance will be better next season but I don’t see the talent in him of a budding star.

You could very well be right. People have a habit of bigging up what looks good and playing down what doesn't look remarkable

I'm going to reserve judgement on Kubica until the 2018 Spanish GP (provided he does get signed)
Kimi had a mixed return to the grid during the flyaways in 2012 but was judged to have put in a great season by the end (yes I know the opinion of Kimi's 2012 performance may have changed in the time since but that's with the use of hindsight)

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FA#14

It took Schumacher a good while to come to terms with the new tyres after just 3 years away: this was a driver many consider to be the best there has ever been. No disrespect to Kubica, but even without his accident it would be a tough call for anyone to imagine him doing a better job than Schumacher, especially given he's been out of the sport for 6 years now

It's certainly a fairy tale that he's even in serious contention for a race seat, but I rather suspect this is being done more for the PR value than anything else. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see it as a particularly sensible choice from a purely racing perspective

Personally I think it boils down to this: He's worth a punt

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God

I rely on Prost



FA#14

It has been confirmed that stroll will be at Daytona just like Alonso. Stroll has secured one of four spots in a Jackie Chan DCR JOTA LMP2 car, alongside Felix Rosenqvist, Robin Frijns and Daniel Juncadella.

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Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.

My gu ess, no kubica at williams. Too much hesitation from paddy.

I'd agree with that. Particularly when the other options available are so uninspiring.

Ultimately though, both Renault and Williams have taken a very serious look at him. If both turn him down, there's probably a good reason.

Schumachers problem, to my mind, was that during his retirement, he didn't do any racing F1 or anything else and lost his competitive edge. He lost the 'fine tune' of his mind and body and their functioning with each other as well as he feel for what the car was telling him.

Kubica, since he has recovered sufficiently, has been driving and racing virtually anything he can get his hands on.

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There may be some truth in that, but the cars have changed a lot since Kubica's been away. I have to say I'm pretty sceptical, but again I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong

Apart from this, wouldn't Williams also be considering scenarios such as if he has a bad accident or if the rear part of the car catches fire, will he be able to remove himself from the cockpit with the Halo?

There is a triple header next season (3 races in 3 weeks), would it be too taxing for him as per the schedule?

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Feel The Fourth

Michael did some bike racing if memory serves - and I think he had a couple of crashes. One of which I think hurt his back quite badly?

Other than the time out, I don't think he was ever 100% after his return.

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Should I grow a beard?

Yes. Remember he was going to be back at Ferrari for 2009 to replace the injured Massa, but for that injury on his neck. This left him with some sort of brain damage apparently

Stroll raced against Massa, if it was i dunno Ocon, or Hulkenberg, then the real criticism would pop up.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/stroll-adm ... ualy-game/



I'm all for drivers being full of confidence - but THIS ^^^^^ is borderline delusion surely?

Just like his "strong 8.5 out of 10" personal appraisal of his 2017 season.

If the team are telling him he's doing a great job rolling around in last place, one of the slowest drivers in most races, then it's as much their fault as his - and I'm a Williams supporter!

Compare to Bottas stating he wouldn't give himself more than a 7.5 out of 10 for his 2017 performances (if my memory serves me well)........

8.5 out of 10 is delusional. But I don't think his race day performances have been that bad. As Martin Brundle said - "it's feast or famine" with him. When he was on the ball he scored big

Consistency is his biggest area of concern. When everything is working for him he's flying it. When something's not right then he seems to fall into this chain reaction of everything going wrong and his race falling away

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God

I rely on Prost



FA#14