planetf1.com

Hamilton:



http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37927.html

Ricciardo:



http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/216 ... ettel-2017

And the point of this exercise is ... ?

Oh, I get it, let's attempt to besmirch and put down drivers by pointing out the opinions by other drivers. Can I go next? Are any drivers immune? How about gingers, and can we body shame too?

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I'm sure if Vettel had an engine mode to go to that can save him in the race like the Merc drivers he would just have been fine.

Vettel delivered three of the best qualifying laps witnessed this this season.

As for Ricciardo when he gets to Vettels level he can talk, for now he should concentrate on being team leader at Redbull.

Vettel was better than Hamilton in the first part of the season, Hamilton better than Vettel in the second half. The difference between them largely was Baku.

From those quotes, you feel a general condemnation that Vettel cracks under pressure thread title is justified... lewis simply said that Seb showed more nerves this year while saying EVERYONE can fall to it... and thing saying that "none of US are superman" noting that he said "US" which would include himself.

As for Ricciado's comment, you only read what you wanted to see, not what Danny said. He never said a word about Seb cracking under pressure in your quote. What he did say is that Lewis handled it better, which can't be argued.

In other words... just another davidheath461 smear of Vettel in case we had forgotten the agenda.

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Not sure how you conclude from that that Vettel cracked under pressure? Oh, wait, I've just noticed who posted. Now I understand

davidheath

Well, Ricciardo beat Vettel very clearly when they were teammates; it was not even close. Ricciardo seems to be on ahigher level than Vettl.

So what happened to the notion that Vettel steps up a gear after the summer break, and performs when the title pressure is on? Ironically it was Hamilton who stepped up a gear, while Vettel only won 1 race after the summer break.

Hopefully that myth can finally be put to bed.

That myth has been put to bed ever since he left RBR, since it's become clearer with every passing season that the one who really steps it up after the summer break is Adrian Newey.

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up until this year he had done, so unclear why that was supposed to be a myth.

Singapore, Mexico and ?

I agree that the 2 above were excellent qualifying laps.

However, it's not much good getting pole if you crash into someone else on the first lap.



Ricciardo already proved he was on (or above) Vettel's level in 2014.

so why didn't he do it this year?

Ah yes, because Newey wasn't there to give him a magical upgrade.

Well said

So because he's done it in the past he has to do it every year?

Could be Newey, of course, although that doesn't explain why Mark never stepped up to the plate in the same way. But again, not sure why not doing it this year invalidates him doing it in seasons past? Strange logic

So that is your response to my post pointing out that your thread title name was untrue? That you apparently only saw what you wanted to see in Danny's actual comment. Diversion tactics yet again. LMAO.

I personally don't give a damn about some so-called myth, never did, nor did I ever use it. The sole purpose of your thread was to create yet another bash of Vettel, and other than attracting one of the forum's other continual Vettel critics, it has failed miserably, heath.

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I was about to lock this thread due to a blatant attempt by a known anti-Vettel poster to attack Vettel. The last few posts made me rethink, but I'm watching this one closely.

Also, please remember that calling out trolls in public doesn't actually help - report them and they'll be dealt with far more efficiently.

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I'm actually glad this is brought up. Vettel has had this reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'', while Hamilton has had the opposite reputation for some strange reason. Always have I felt that it should be the other way around and the 2017 F1 season proved I was right.

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It really doesn't. In the past Vettel has usually finished the season really strongly. This time it wasn't to be. Doesn't prove a single thing, since every situation is different.

The question i asked is why didn't he do it this year? It seems you can't answer that.

Vettel had the potential to win 4 races after the summer break. He only won 1.

1 of the races he didn't win was due to mechanical failure, the other 2 were because he crashed into other drivers.



The idea is that we're trying to separate driver performance from car performance. And as you say it could have been Newey.

I was just using the title provided by the article provider (grandprix.com). If you're not happy with it then i suggest you contact that website. I'm not hear to argue semantics.

Vettel clearly stepped up a level towards the end of the season in years gone past. I fail to see how Vettel not being able to do that this year changes that.

If Hamilton performs poorly in the next wet weather race does that mean his 4 year unbeaten run in the wet didn't happen?

2010 - he just stopped making silly mistakes and started doing what he should have been doing all season (i.e. winning from pole).

2011 - no step up in performance after the summer break.

2012 - The Newey upgrades at Singapore/Japan is clearly what brought him back into contention. 3 front row lockouts for Red Bull between Japan and India which was massive in a season like 2012.

2013 - Tyre changes played into Red Bull's hands. He was also performing very well before the summer break.

I don't really see how it's clear that Vettel stepped up in previous years.

When he has 4 titles, we can have this discussion again or he beats Max without reliability issues.

Austin


Well like I said one swallow does not make a summer right now Max has his number.

You can really single out only Baku, yet even that was not "under pressure" but because Hamilton did not accelerate out of the corner and therefore started a chain of events. Now, you can feel free to pee on the wounded lion, but the lion will come alive for the beginning of the next season, so beware!

Go Vettel!

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Yup just like '14 proved you right smh.

It's as if Vettel naysayers wait till he does wrong and then go you see I told you so.

What is most funny is Hamilton could not hold a candle to Vettel in the 1st half of the season, and I reckon had Malaysia and Japan turbo and spark plug failure not happened this cracking under pressure nonsense won't come up.

2010 - This is the only one you could argue. His performance level didn't really improve though in terms of outright speed. He just started doing what he should have been doing all season.

2011 - so no step up in performance? glad we agree.

2012 - Of those 4 races, he had a dominant car in 3 of them (Japan, Korea, India) while in Singapore Hamilton retired infront of him, and he choked in qualifying after dominating practice. You have to kidding on this one. It was clearly the Newey upgrades which propelled him to those wins.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/20118852

2013 - I guess we were watching different seasons. You seem to be judging Vettel's performance purely by his results. His driving performance was great before and after the summer break. What allowed to win every race after the summer break was the tyre change. Webber's managed to haul himself back up into 3rd place in the WDC following the summer break despite 3 DNFs. He finished on the podium in all the other races.

It was certainly more than one swallow. Vettel was firmly put in his place by Ricciardo over a 20 race season.

I guess it's kind of ironic then that Hamilton was the one who "stepped up a gear" after the summer break.

The cracking under pressure is not without basis. It comes from incidents like Singapore and Mexico.

In 2012 what makes you think it was Red Bull improving rather than Vettel? Could it have been Vettel? Could it perhaps not be a bit of both?

Firstly, did you read the article i sent you? That has details on the major upgrades for the Asian leg that Red Bull used.

Following the introduction of these upgrades, Red Bull suddenly started locking out the front row having not done so all season. It doesn't take a genius to see that it was Newey who stepped up, rather than Vettel.

I've altered the title to something less dramatic, and removed some uncredited images. Please follow the forum rules.

Also please report anything you think doesn't abide by them.

Why Can't it be both? Earlier in the season we saw Webber pretty much equalling Vettel.

Frankly speaking, the end result wasn't affected by anything that was in Vettel's control. He lost few points in Baku for sure because of his stupidity but that was about it.
Singapore incident could have happened with anyone. He had to defend and it caused pileup.
Even if both those victories been with Vettel, even with 6 races to go, most people had recognised the limitations Ferrari's car has and the tracks coming up in last 6 races. Hamilton had dominant car which didnt work at couple of places. Rest all tracks it was either completely dominant or very close to the pace setters, not to mention they had the car that could easily lead from the front. Ferrari never really had it at enough tracks.
At most, we were expecting little more fight from Ferrari but that mechanical DNF just ended any fight that was left in the season. Hamilton never really was under serious pressure. He didnt make many mistakes this season. Must give that to him.

Frankly Ferrari shouldnt be disappointed. They made very significant gains. They need to keep pushing with the staff they have and seriously needs to stop chopping and changing management and leadership positions inside the team. They just need that extra performance from engine during quali and looks where their concept of short wheelbase went wrong this year.

Rest, there isnt significant thing to worry about be it drivers or technical side of their team.

By this I'm getting english is not your first language.

Hamilton didn't step up after the break rather they could use the extra engine mode in the Mercedes so you end up with a race like Monza or Austin, also it's like saying Bottas stepped up after Hamilton won the title.

In Mexico he recovered back, as oppose to Hamilton.

If you didn't get it - my point is that Ricciardo beating Vettel in 2014 certainly wasn't a one off or a fluke.