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 Post subject: Ferrari might leave F1
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Ferrari might leave F1 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... it-F1.html

According to Bernie, Ferrari might leave F1 and form an alternative series if it doesn't get its way. You have to ask why it would even think of doing that given how well financially it has done out of Formula 1? I thought the call was for more teams rather than less.

In addition he suggests it should go electric! So given all the calls for noise and simpler engines do we simply have to accept that F1 will become an historic race series in the future?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:57 pm 
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It's just a bluff and should be treated as such. The moment Ferrari leaves F1, their brand is devalued massively. Ten years later, there's nothing to distinguish them from the other sports car manufacturers.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Two reasons to take it with a huge grain of salt.
1: The source of the article (which I thought was on the banned for linking to)
2: The articles source. Bernie is a poor authority and will say anything to stir the pot.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:26 pm 
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K, bye! Seriously the season hasn’t even started and they are at it again, just leave already no one cares. Crybabies.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Ecclestone was a fool to be duped into paying teams attendance awards. Paying Ferrari $100 Million a year (thru 2020) for being the "oldest team in F!" is ludicrous.

I'm not sure Ferrari's road car production profits can displace $100 Million a year if the gift goes away. But I suppose Ferrari make more money in trademark merchandising than they do in selling (limited numbers of) cars to the super rich.

But if it comes to pass that Ferrari leaves, then good riddance. There's more to F1 than the prancing horse.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:39 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Ecclestone was a fool to be duped into paying teams attendance awards. Paying Ferrari $100 Million a year (thru 2020) for being the "oldest team in F!" is ludicrous.

I'm not sure Ferrari's road car production profits can displace $100 Million a year if the gift goes away. But I suppose Ferrari make more money in trademark merchandising than they do in selling (limited numbers of) cars to the super rich.

But if it comes to pass that Ferrari leaves, then good riddance. There's more to F1 than the prancing horse.

I think that was part of his divide and rule policy, the teams were getting too chummy, chummy under the FOTA umbrella.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Is it 'Ferrari could leave F1' time of the year already?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:48 pm 
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I can only assume that Ferrari wants to......

TAKE BACK CONTROL.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:51 pm 
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#timesup


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
#timesup

Well said ha-ha


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
I can only assume that Ferrari wants to......

TAKE BACK CONTROL.
How Brexciting! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Modern F1 started in 1950. Every year since Ferrari has been threatening to leave if it didn't get their way.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:45 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
Modern F1 started in 1950. Every year since Ferrari has been threatening to leave if it didn't get their way.

That's not entirely fair.

They weren't threatening to leave between 1999 - 2004 for instance ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Two reasons to take it with a huge grain of salt.
1: The source of the article (which I thought was on the banned for linking to)
2: The articles source. Bernie is a poor authority and will say anything to stir the pot.


THIS....

*shaking my head at some of these ridiculous comments*

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz withdrew from motor racing following the 1955 Le Mans disaster. It did not return as a team until 2010, some 55 years later. F1 didn't skip a beat then, and wouldn't skip a beat now if Ferrari left. The Scuderia needs to apply some of the energy it wastes acting like a spoiled child to more positive actions that the fans admire.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:18 am 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Two reasons to take it with a huge grain of salt.
1: The source of the article (which I thought was on the banned for linking to)
2: The articles source. Bernie is a poor authority and will say anything to stir the pot.


Exactly. Before we all jump on the anti-Ferrari bandwagon, can we please have a more serious, credible source? The Daily Mail are hardly known for quality journalism.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:28 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Mercedes-Benz withdrew from motor racing following the 1955 Le Mans disaster. It did not return as a team until 2010, some 55 years later. F1 didn't skip a beat then, and wouldn't skip a beat now if Ferrari left. The Scuderia needs to apply some of the energy it wastes acting like a spoiled child to more positive actions that the fans admire.

Ferrari have a massive fan base, did Mercedes have a massive fan base back in 1955?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:52 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Ferrari have a massive fan base, did Mercedes have a massive fan base back in 1955?


Before the modern era, the "Silver Arrows" team of the 1930's competed in F1... successfully. Rudolf Caracciola won three European Grand Prix Championships after 1932 for Mercedes-Benz. There were others.

Do you think that Formula One racing began only in 1950? Do you think that only Ferrari have a massive fan base?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:02 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Ferrari have a massive fan base, did Mercedes have a massive fan base back in 1955?

I wasn't around in 1955, but I don't think any team had a massive fan base as we define it now. However, Mercedes was one of the most successful Grand Prix teams of all time, so I'd expect they had about as much as anyone else did.

MB-BOB wrote:
Do you think that Formula One racing began only in 1950?

... of course it did. That's a very odd question. Grand Prix racing did not begin in 1950, but I would have thought there's no debate when Formula One began.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:07 am 
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Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Do you think that Formula One racing began ONLY in 1950?

... of course it did. That's a very odd question. Grand Prix racing did not begin in 1950, but I would have thought there's no debate when Formula One began.

If you read my comment correctly -- the ONLY part -- you'll realize my point that Grand Prix racing dates to the early 1920's with the European Grand Prix Championships. Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union forged their brand names during this time... predating Ferrari by several decades...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:15 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Do you think that Formula One racing began ONLY in 1950?

... of course it did. That's a very odd question. Grand Prix racing did not begin in 1950, but I would have thought there's no debate when Formula One began.

If you read my comment correctly -- the ONLY part -- you'll realize my point that Grand Prix racing dates to the early 1920's with the European Grand Prix Championships. Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union forged their brand names during this time... predating Ferrari by several decades...

And if you'd phrased it as 'Do you think that Grand Prix racing began only in 1950?', I'd have no problem with it. But F1 did begin in 1950; the first F1 cars were basically pre-war designs, but no car had ever been a Formula One car before the formula (1) was written. Ferrari has been around for the entirety of F1's existence, even though they are predated by Mercedes in Grand Prix racing.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
And if you'd phrased it as 'Do you think that Grand Prix racing began only in 1950?', I'd have no problem with it. But F1 did begin in 1950; the first F1 cars were basically pre-war designs, but no car had ever been a Formula One car before the formula (1) was written. Ferrari has been around for the entirety of F1's existence, even though they are predated by Mercedes in Grand Prix racing.

"Grand Prix" Racing or "Formula One" racing... I do not intend to mince words on this.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:45 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Exediron wrote:
And if you'd phrased it as 'Do you think that Grand Prix racing began only in 1950?', I'd have no problem with it. But F1 did begin in 1950; the first F1 cars were basically pre-war designs, but no car had ever been a Formula One car before the formula (1) was written. Ferrari has been around for the entirety of F1's existence, even though they are predated by Mercedes in Grand Prix racing.

"Grand Prix" Racing or "Formula One" racing... I do not intend to mince words on this.


Well you did! Grand Prix racing began many years before 1950. Formula 1 did not.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:25 am 
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If I remember correctly, "formula one" was defined in 1946 and the first races according to this formula took place 1946/ 1947 (including grand-prix races). The first Formula One World Championship took place in 1950.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:36 am 
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I do not for one second believe Ferrari will go, but thinking about it, it could be the reset many people have been calling for (not me, I like it hi tec)

Without Ferrari, how many others would either leave or seriously throttle back their spend? Renault I think is an exception, but the others are there to 'show' they are as good as ferari, so without that why stay.

It could well herald a return to low(er) spending and thus far less technical but unseen stuff. The cars could easily be just as fast, as for the last 20 years or more the regs have been aimed at slowing them down.

Food for thought, but it is not going to happen. (Unless Bernie and some guys from Ferrari Reb Bull and Merc decide the want a new series controlled by them :D )


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 am 
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For me the question is who on earth would Ferrari race? Have an internal Raikonen v Vettel championship or petrol v electric perhaps, they really need to realise that what held sway years ago gives them little right to get preference today.

I realise it is simply poking the sport into doing something but the second part of the equation is probably just as important. Ferrari hold a significant influence on the sport but is that only as long as the power unit in the chassis is an ICU.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Not bothered if they do. Sick of hearing the same boring story for the past 20 years.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:49 pm 
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meh...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:44 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Mercedes-Benz withdrew from motor racing following the 1955 Le Mans disaster. It did not return as a team until 2010, some 55 years later. F1 didn't skip a beat then, and wouldn't skip a beat now if Ferrari left. The Scuderia needs to apply some of the energy it wastes acting like a spoiled child to more positive actions that the fans admire.

Ferrari are different. They've been a constant in the sport since 1950, Ferrari leaving is different.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:38 pm 
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It's not a proper F1 Season until Ferrari threaten to leave :D

Next is the Red Bull threat.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Alex53 wrote:
It's not a proper F1 Season until Ferrari threaten to leave :D

Next is the Red Bull threat.

To be fair Ferrari haven't threatened to quit. Bernie has said Ferrari might quit.

It's a non story tbh, at least we have testing to talk about now.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If I remember correctly, "formula one" was defined in 1946 and the first races according to this formula took place 1946/ 1947 (including grand-prix races). The first Formula One World Championship took place in 1950.

I never knew that, it's quite interesting

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:45 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If I remember correctly, "formula one" was defined in 1946 and the first races according to this formula took place 1946/ 1947 (including grand-prix races). The first Formula One World Championship took place in 1950.

I never knew that, it's quite interesting


The definition of Formula is - a method or procedure for achieving something.

It was literally that. Here is the list, build your car to it. Same with Formula 2, Formula 3 etc.
The list has changed several times though 'this' list has been list 1. The Grand Prize is a general term for a sporting event.

There was a 'Grand Prix' in 1906

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_French_Grand_Prix


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:22 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Mercedes-Benz withdrew from motor racing following the 1955 Le Mans disaster. It did not return as a team until 2010, some 55 years later. F1 didn't skip a beat then, and wouldn't skip a beat now if Ferrari left. The Scuderia needs to apply some of the energy it wastes acting like a spoiled child to more positive actions that the fans admire.

If you truly believe that any part of the motor racing world "didn't skip a beat" after the Le Mans disaster you clearly have no idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:07 pm 
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If Ferrari were to leave F1, both would survive, but both would be diminished.

Never say never, but I still think it unlikely that they would, and the soundbites coming out so far seem like early stage "line in the sand" bargaining positions.

Even if Ferrari do not get everything they want from F1, it would still be more than they could get from any kind of breakaway series that Marchionne threatens. It's not like the threatened breakaway from a few years ago, where the rebel teams had much to gain from a breakaway. Ferrari do not.

One hopes that saner heads will prevail, as the time gets closer.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
It's not a proper F1 Season until Ferrari threaten to leave :D

Next is the Red Bull threat.

To be fair Ferrari haven't threatened to quit. Bernie has said Ferrari might quit.

It's a non story tbh, at least we have testing to talk about now.

+++

The annual "Ferrari's leaving" feeding frenzy kicked off by yet another Bernie the weazil comment.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:40 pm 
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stratos wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
If you truly believe that any part of the motor racing world "didn't skip a beat" after the Le Mans disaster you clearly have no idea.

From 1965 (my first year following F1) through to 2009, the absence of Mercedes as a works team in F1 was seldom discussed. Even during Mercedes return to LeMans in the early 1990's as a team, the F1 world seldom took notice (regarding F1 and Mercedes). Since 1994, Mercedes has supplied engines in partnership with Ilmor... again without raising eyebrows in the F1 World.

The point is that F! is too wound-up in itself to pay any real attention to any manufacturer that is not in F1, regardless of their status, or seniority, over time.

An aside comment... This business of confrontation with "you clearly have no idea", and splitting-hairs semantics debates regarding what is a Grand Prix vs Formula One is not friendly, and does nothing to foster civil discussion on this forum. Probably explains why the old hats around here conduct endless petty arguments without end.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
It's not a proper F1 Season until Ferrari threaten to leave :D

Next is the Red Bull threat.

To be fair Ferrari haven't threatened to quit. Bernie has said Ferrari might quit.

It's a non story tbh, at least we have testing to talk about now.

+++

The annual "Ferrari's leaving" feeding frenzy kicked off by yet another Bernie the weazil comment.


They only have themselves to blame.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
stratos wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
If you truly believe that any part of the motor racing world "didn't skip a beat" after the Le Mans disaster you clearly have no idea.

From 1965 (my first year following F1) through to 2009, the absence of Mercedes as a works team in F1 was seldom discussed. Even during Mercedes return to LeMans in the early 1990's as a team, the F1 world seldom took notice (regarding F1 and Mercedes). Since 1994, Mercedes has supplied engines in partnership with Ilmor... again without raising eyebrows in the F1 World.

The point is that F! is too wound-up in itself to pay any real attention to any manufacturer that is not in F1, regardless of their status, or seniority, over time.

An aside comment... This business of confrontation with "you clearly have no idea", and splitting-hairs semantics debates regarding what is a Grand Prix vs Formula One is not friendly, and does nothing to foster civil discussion on this forum. Probably explains why the old hats around here conduct endless petty arguments without end.


If this is referring to or including my post on it, my apologies, it was not intended that way, just as 'chat'


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm 
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moby wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
If I remember correctly, "formula one" was defined in 1946 and the first races according to this formula took place 1946/ 1947 (including grand-prix races). The first Formula One World Championship took place in 1950.

I never knew that, it's quite interesting


The definition of Formula is - a method or procedure for achieving something.

It was literally that. Here is the list, build your car to it. Same with Formula 2, Formula 3 etc.
The list has changed several times though 'this' list has been list 1. The Grand Prize is a general term for a sporting event.

There was a 'Grand Prix' in 1906

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_French_Grand_Prix

Yeah I'm well up to speed with Grand Prix history. But I was unaware of the term "Formula 1" being in place in 1946

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