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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
It's not a proper F1 Season until Ferrari threaten to leave :D

Next is the Red Bull threat.

To be fair Ferrari haven't threatened to quit. Bernie has said Ferrari might quit.

It's a non story tbh, at least we have testing to talk about now.

+++

The annual "Ferrari's leaving" feeding frenzy kicked off by yet another Bernie the weazil comment.


They only have themselves to blame.


Really?
Ferrari hasn't said a thing... They have no control over bernie's mouth... I don't think he does either.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:34 am 
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Blake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
They only have themselves to blame.

Really?
Ferrari hasn't said a thing... They have no control over bernie's mouth... I don't think he does either.

Not this time, no. But it wasn't very long ago at all that Marchionne was talking about how we should take Ferrari's threat to leave F1 seriously, so it's hardly a surprise if people are talking about Ferrari leaving F1. They don't only have themselves to blame, but they have threatened to quit F1 multiple times - so they certainly have themselves at least a little to blame.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:26 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Blake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
They only have themselves to blame.

Really?
Ferrari hasn't said a thing... They have no control over bernie's mouth... I don't think he does either.

Not this time, no. But it wasn't very long ago at all that Marchionne was talking about how we should take Ferrari's threat to leave F1 seriously, so it's hardly a surprise if people are talking about Ferrari leaving F1. They don't only have themselves to blame, but they have threatened to quit F1 multiple times - so they certainly have themselves at least a little to blame.


Yes, I shouldn't have said "only".


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Ferrari should leave, they hold all the power. Bernie knew this and gave them the money. See how many people turn in to see a Force India go head to head with a Toro Rosso.

Ferrari breakaway and MB, Williams, McLaren go too...that is not even a question.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Hey there, Astoria! Long time, no see. How ya doin'?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:53 pm 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Ferrari should leave, they hold all the power. Bernie knew this and gave them the money. See how many people turn in to see a Force India go head to head with a Toro Rosso.

Ferrari breakaway and MB, Williams, McLaren go too...that is not even a question.


They couldn't even agree whether to postpone testing....


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:32 pm 
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exactly, its because they all have their own agenda today...I agree. Once the teams own everything they fight for the good of each other...who the hell needs Liberty?
Blake!!!! Hey my good friend hope you are well. need to catch up!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:01 pm 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Ferrari should leave, they hold all the power. Bernie knew this and gave them the money. See how many people turn in to see a Force India go head to head with a Toro Rosso.

Ferrari breakaway and MB, Williams, McLaren go too...that is not even a question.

You could go back to 2008 and ask how many people would tune in to watch a Red Bull go head to head with a Brawn. Yet the next year, they did. Both teams' popularity exploded over the course of a few months once they became the top teams and Ferrari's (and McLaren's) drop into midfield irrelevance seemed to do little to affect the sport's popularity.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:34 am 
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j man wrote:
AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Ferrari should leave, they hold all the power. Bernie knew this and gave them the money. See how many people turn in to see a Force India go head to head with a Toro Rosso.

Ferrari breakaway and MB, Williams, McLaren go too...that is not even a question.

You could go back to 2008 and ask how many people would tune in to watch a Red Bull go head to head with a Brawn. Yet the next year, they did. Both teams' popularity exploded over the course of a few months once they became the top teams and Ferrari's (and McLaren's) drop into midfield irrelevance seemed to do little to affect the sport's popularity.

:thumbup:

It was a weird year but we all tuned in

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:41 pm 
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You all tuned in because Honda turned into MB, and If I remember correctly the new rules changes came into effect around diffusers. Let's be real the TV ratings increase was in UK not Italy Not USA, not most of Asia and Europe...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:46 pm 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
You all tuned in because Honda turned into MB, and If I remember correctly the new rules changes came into effect around diffusers. Let's be real the TV ratings increase was in UK not Italy Not USA, not most of Asia and Europe...

That was another year away. And one team turning into another team doesn't keep an audience entertained for an entire year. A good racing spectacle does

Ferrari have an immense following, there's no doubt about that. Substantially larger than any other team. But if F1 was putting on a good show, the audience would tune in - with or without Ferrari

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:47 pm 
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mcdi according to the Guardian you are wrong...TV declined in 2009
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/ ... ula-one-tv

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:28 pm 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
mcdi according to the Guardian you are wrong...TV declined in 2009
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/ ... ula-one-tv

I never commented on a ratings increase or decrease. You're the one who said it increased. If the decline was due to new faces at the front - who's to say it wasn't due to Lewis Hamilton stuck in the midfield?

If there's close racing, a title fight and it's generating news headlines then people are going to watch it. It would take decades for a Ferrari breakaway to come close to the popularity of F1. Nobody watched A1GP - a grid made up of 20 Ferrari F2004s with V8 engines

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Your point while taken isn't the same. I do not suggest nor would I ver suggest that we want to watch 20 Ferrari V8s...that is exactly my point, if you keep dumbing down F1 with shared parts, shared engine, same budgets you get NASCAR and for whatever reason people watch NASCAR thats not F1.

F1 or whatever Ferrari, MB, williams, McLaren call it will be watched because it has the history and the top team(s). Liberty needs to understand this and its all best if actually the teams buy out F1...again my theory would be why buy something when you can get it for free. Wait out the Concorde Agreement start a new series...done.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Whether Ferrari will leave or not will be decided by their shareholders and whether they are focusing on long-run value (Ferrari needs to be in F1 for this) or on short-run profits (better leave then). Since we dot know which majorities there will be among Ferrari shareholders in the future, it is completely open if and how long they continue.

It would be a mistake to rely on Ferrari to stay on, if rules are just pleasing enough for them. Some change among the shareholders, e.g. towards investment companies, and they are gone nevertheless.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:50 pm 
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The same can be said of any team.... There is a major consideration, however.... 68 years in F1.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:26 am 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Your point while taken isn't the same. I do not suggest nor would I ver suggest that we want to watch 20 Ferrari V8s...that is exactly my point, if you keep dumbing down F1 with shared parts, shared engine, same budgets you get NASCAR and for whatever reason people watch NASCAR thats not F1.

F1 or whatever Ferrari, MB, williams, McLaren call it will be watched because it has the history and the top team(s). Liberty needs to understand this and its all best if actually the teams buy out F1...again my theory would be why buy something when you can get it for free. Wait out the Concorde Agreement start a new series...done.

I watch NASCAR. I wouldn't for a second compare it to F1 - absolute apples and oranges. It is what it is and I get a kick out of it. F1, FE, WEC, MotoGP, IndyCar, WRC... NASCAR is so different to them all that I can devote some time every Sunday to watching something that little bit different. Adds a bit of variety to my motorsport life. Even if I'm well aware of how much the governing body is contriving things to produce a somewhat manufactured show. I get your point though and there are tons of NASCAR aspects I wouldn't like to see replicated in F1

Ferrari breaking away into a new series could be a runner. But why would any of the rest follow? Especially the likes of Williams and McLaren? More potential F1 wins/podiums for them if Ferrari departed

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:06 am 
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According to a source Wolff told Welt Am Sonntag that "If I were the new F1 promotor of Liberty Media, I wouldn't continue irritating Marchionne with mindless changes and propositions that are impossible to accept".

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:32 am 
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mcdo wrote:
AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Your point while taken isn't the same. I do not suggest nor would I ver suggest that we want to watch 20 Ferrari V8s...that is exactly my point, if you keep dumbing down F1 with shared parts, shared engine, same budgets you get NASCAR and for whatever reason people watch NASCAR thats not F1.

F1 or whatever Ferrari, MB, williams, McLaren call it will be watched because it has the history and the top team(s). Liberty needs to understand this and its all best if actually the teams buy out F1...again my theory would be why buy something when you can get it for free. Wait out the Concorde Agreement start a new series...done.

I watch NASCAR. I wouldn't for a second compare it to F1 - absolute apples and oranges. It is what it is and I get a kick out of it. F1, FE, WEC, MotoGP, IndyCar, WRC... NASCAR is so different to them all that I can devote some time every Sunday to watching something that little bit different. Adds a bit of variety to my motorsport life. Even if I'm well aware of how much the governing body is contriving things to produce a somewhat manufactured show. I get your point though and there are tons of NASCAR aspects I wouldn't like to see replicated in F1

Ferrari breaking away into a new series could be a runner. But why would any of the rest follow? Especially the likes of Williams and McLaren? More potential F1 wins/podiums for them if Ferrari departed


Exactly. Way more to be gained by staying in F1.

Prestige.

Prestige is something which is very difficult to create, difficult to quantify. Why is the olympics the peak for some sports, but nobody cares in other sports (particularly where they already have their 'prestigious' events)? How can something suddenly become prestigious, and then fade away again?

The F1 brand is really about the prestige. People tune in who watch zero other motorsports, largely because of the prestige. Something about 'F1' just makes people watch it. It's difficult to quantify, and doesn't make much logical sense, but you can put the same money, same drivers, same cars, same tracks & call it something else... and people just wouldn't be as excited by it.

F1 is unique in that it draws fans who aren't fans of other motorsports. A breakaway series would likely be made up of motorsport fans, some of the Ferrari fans, and you'd lose all the others.You'd then have the challenges about just the sheer amount of work in getting this running - logistics, tracks, budgets, agreeing the rules(!!!), payouts.. Why take that risk?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Ferrari have the prestige...thats why F1 wants them to stay...it won't go away if they have a new series...Ferrari brand is solid as is McLaren, Williams , MB whatever form of racing these guys are there, not as a sponsor but as a builder, engine etc.

The moment Ferrari decides to leave these teams would align with them very quickly.

Liberty can negotiate but as Joe DiMaggio once famously said when a reporter asked him in the early 80's what he would say to George Steinbrenner (owner of the NY Yankees) if he was a player...Joe said to the reporter " I would say good morning Partner!".

Thats the fight now it's not how much these teams will give up for parity...its now much Liberty will give in for the teams to stay.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:28 pm 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Ferrari have the prestige...thats why F1 wants them to stay...it won't go away if they have a new series...Ferrari brand is solid as is McLaren, Williams , MB whatever form of racing these guys are there, not as a sponsor but as a builder, engine etc.

The moment Ferrari decides to leave these teams would align with them very quickly.

Liberty can negotiate but as Joe DiMaggio once famously said when a reporter asked him in the early 80's what he would say to George Steinbrenner (owner of the NY Yankees) if he was a player...Joe said to the reporter " I would say good morning Partner!".

Thats the fight now it's not how much these teams will give up for parity...its now much Liberty will give in for the teams to stay.


Last time the teams united for a breakaway series, it was Ferrari that defected back into Ecclestone's arms for some extra payment. Thus, it was Ferrari that secured Bernie's (and CVC's) shares from the revenues.

Thus, Ferrari is certainly the wrong candidate to unite the teams for a new breakaway attempt. Why should anyone trust them this time?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:40 am 
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It is not up to any of us to come up with a reason for trust. That is up to the teams. Lasardi, you can post as though you know what they think, how they feel about Ferrari or what they can or would do, but you really don't know. Not do you know all the details and discussions that took place with the teams, Ferrari & Bernie. The simple truth is the teams themselves may well have a car different viewpoint than the way you see it.

Another thing, as has been pointed out often whenever I defend Ferrari of the past, this is not a management by Enzo, not of Luca & Todt, so.... If there were truly a move towards a breakaway series, even those teams who may have felt as say, may well feel differently today given the current management.

Ie... Ferrari with their huge international "footprint" may be exactly the team to unite the others if a breakaway series were contemplated.... Perhaps even the only team that could.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:17 am 
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Blake wrote:
It is not up to any of us to come up with a reason for trust. That is up to the teams. Lasardi, you can post as though you know what they think, how they feel about Ferrari or what they can or would do, but you really don't know. Not do you know all the details and discussions that took place with the teams, Ferrari & Bernie. The simple truth is the teams themselves may well have a car different viewpoint than the way you see it.

Another thing, as has been pointed out often whenever I defend Ferrari of the past, this is not a management by Enzo, not of Luca & Todt, so.... If there were truly a move towards a breakaway series, even those teams who may have felt as say, may well feel differently today given the current management.

Ie... Ferrari with their huge international "footprint" may be exactly the team to unite the others if a breakaway series were contemplated.... Perhaps even the only team that could.


But as shown before, are susceptible to bribes. A breakaway series won't happen for many reasons. A breakaway series organised by the teams is even less likely. Too much self interest. They couldn't come to an agreement as to the colour of grass if some thought it being orange would give them an advantage.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:35 am 
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Blake wrote:
It is not up to any of us to come up with a reason for trust. That is up to the teams. Lasardi, you can post as though you know what they think, how they feel about Ferrari or what they can or would do, but you really don't know. Not do you know all the details and discussions that took place with the teams, Ferrari & Bernie. The simple truth is the teams themselves may well have a car different viewpoint than the way you see it.

Another thing, as has been pointed out often whenever I defend Ferrari of the past, this is not a management by Enzo, not of Luca & Todt, so.... If there were truly a move towards a breakaway series, even those teams who may have felt as say, may well feel differently today given the current management.

Ie... Ferrari with their huge international "footprint" may be exactly the team to unite the others if a breakaway series were contemplated.... Perhaps even the only team that could.

Ferrari enjoy special privileges in F1. They have a not insignificant extra share of the revenue and veto rights over anything they feel is not in their interests. The question I'd ask is why would they want to give any of that up in a new, breakaway series, especially since these are often reasons given why Ferrari threaten to break away anyway? So any teams joining such a series would know that they would start with an inherent disadvantage, surely? Why would they want to do that?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:02 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Blake wrote:
It is not up to any of us to come up with a reason for trust. That is up to the teams. Lasardi, you can post as though you know what they think, how they feel about Ferrari or what they can or would do, but you really don't know. Not do you know all the details and discussions that took place with the teams, Ferrari & Bernie. The simple truth is the teams themselves may well have a car different viewpoint than the way you see it.

Another thing, as has been pointed out often whenever I defend Ferrari of the past, this is not a management by Enzo, not of Luca & Todt, so.... If there were truly a move towards a breakaway series, even those teams who may have felt as say, may well feel differently today given the current management.

Ie... Ferrari with their huge international "footprint" may be exactly the team to unite the others if a breakaway series were contemplated.... Perhaps even the only team that could.

Ferrari enjoy special privileges in F1. They have a not insignificant extra share of the revenue and veto rights over anything they feel is not in their interests. The question I'd ask is why would they want to give any of that up in a new, breakaway series, especially since these are often reasons given why Ferrari threaten to break away anyway? So any teams joining such a series would know that they would start with an inherent disadvantage, surely? Why would they want to do that?


Agreed, but are we sure that Liberty Media haven't threatened modify those privileges or to take them away altogether and levelling the playing field?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Did you see what Liberty just said today? They are blaming Bernie for the low fees collected at Brazil GP. So then Liberty said we will negotiate GP fees on an individual basis. OK so they want to get the F1 teams to get paid collectively in parity yet they themselves want to be paid and negotiate fees on an individual basis for rights to GP. This is exactly the problem, Liberty wants to control costs (parity for F2 teams) and maximize revenue for themselves....again the reason why Ferrari or any big team should say FU to Liberty.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:20 am 
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AstoriaisBACK wrote:
Did you see what Liberty just said today? They are blaming Bernie for the low fees collected at Brazil GP. So then Liberty said we will negotiate GP fees on an individual basis. OK so they want to get the F1 teams to get paid collectively in parity yet they themselves want to be paid and negotiate fees on an individual basis for rights to GP. This is exactly the problem, Liberty wants to control costs (parity for F2 teams) and maximize revenue for themselves....again the reason why Ferrari or any big team should say FU to Liberty.


Isn't that a good thing? Liberty can individually negotiate with Tracks so venues can actually afford to host a race and turn a profit... rather then crippling venue's and tracks being proped up by tax payer money because of the ludicrous hosting fees.

What would you do? continue fleecing race tracks and fans of millions until their is no where in the world outside of rich oil states that can afford to host a race...?

I think Ferrari should just leave... stop black mailing the sport and the fans for their own gain.
Liberty can then takethat dumb "historic bonus" *cough bribe cough* and use it else where.. maybe share it amongst the remaining teams.

I'm kinda curious what a Ferrari break away series would look like...

All teams pay Ferrari $1000000000 entry fee
All tracks pay Ferrari $1000000000 hosting fee
All fans pay Ferrari $1000 per ticket.
Huh... looks kinda like f1 atm actually....
Never mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:05 am 
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Ridiculous post

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:36 am 
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Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:28 am 
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Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:12 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


What happens if they continue to pander to the giants Zoue?

The sport can't keep heading in the direction it's been heading for the last 10 - 15 yrs. There has to be a point somewhere where Liberty say either "no more" to the big boys or they resign themselves to increasingly owning as sport that's effectively controlled by 1 or 2 participants. The deck is so stacked in the favour of the giants at the moment that it's near enough impossible for anyone else to even hope to challenge for a win. When was the last winner that wasn't a Merc, a Ferrari or a Red Bull? The answer is Sunday 17th March 2013. Almost 8 yrs since Raikkonen won in Australia in the Lotus. 8 yrs!! We've effectively had a 6 car competition for the better part of a decade now. Surely that says something is seriously wrong with the way the sport is run.

I can think of no other sport in the world where a few entrants have such influence over the direction the sport is heading than what happens in F1. Ecclelstone effectively handed the keys to the asylum to the inmates doing deals with the big boys and while I can't blame them for using any influence they have for their own benefit, I think the day will come where, for the greater good, they'll will have to return some of that control back to the owner. I just hope it's done peacefully with whats best for the sport the main concern.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 22695
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


What happens if they continue to pander to the giants Zoue?

The sport can't keep heading in the direction it's been heading for the last 10 - 15 yrs. There has to be a point somewhere where Liberty say either "no more" to the big boys or they resign themselves to increasingly owning as sport that's effectively controlled by 1 or 2 participants. The deck is so stacked in the favour of the giants at the moment that it's near enough impossible for anyone else to even hope to challenge for a win. When was the last winner that wasn't a Merc, a Ferrari or a Red Bull? The answer is Sunday 17th March 2013. Almost 8 yrs since Raikkonen won in Australia in the Lotus. 8 yrs!! We've effectively had a 6 car competition for the better part of a decade now. Surely that says something is seriously wrong with the way the sport is run.

I can think of no other sport in the world where a few entrants have such influence over the direction the sport is heading than what happens in F1. Ecclelstone effectively handed the keys to the asylum to the inmates doing deals with the big boys and while I can't blame them for using any influence they have for their own benefit, I think the day will come where, for the greater good, they'll will have to return some of that control back to the owner. I just hope it's done peacefully with whats best for the sport the main concern.
You'll get no argument from me that F1 has big issues that they need to address. I'm just not convinced that the finger of blame should be pointed at Ferrari when all they're doing is protecting their interests. They all do it. Williams scuppered the chance for everyone to extend the test last week because they had other plans. How's that in the interests of the common good?

Liberty do need to change things. But no-one gives away something for nothing and they need to come up with a solution to make it worth Ferrari's while to give up what Liberty wants. There has to be something in it to make all parties feel like they are getting a win. What that may be, I don't know, but that's Liberty's problem.

I think e.g. that these PUs are a very costly mistake and have probably done more harm than good to F1. But at the same time I recognize the enormous investment that the manufacturers have put into them and it's unrealistic to expect them to write that off. Of course they want to pursue this avenue now it's been opened. Liberty need to think of a better approach than simply saying "my way or the highway." Confrontation is not the answer


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:10 am
Posts: 89
Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


No not rude mate. You make vaild points.

But there is no othersport in the world outside of maybe professional oylimpians that pays the participants to partake. (Maybe you could think of dozens.. I can't.... not being rude serious question)

The idea that the organisers pay... to keep competitors is absurd. This then means it is the venues and fans that bare the cost for what?... the "privilege of watching".... and when these competitors can't get their way they threaten to leave and in effect leave the sport in ruin.. . to me that is the very definition of not caring about racing or the fans.

Sure they don't want to give up the tens of millions... but it's at the expense and detriment of the fans and in some countries like my own (Australian) the tax payer. But most importantly the racing.

Using the argument that they aren't villans for not wanting to give up millions of dollars and fall down the field is kinda my point... takeaway the bonuses and the prospect of being on equal footing and they threaten to quit... they are simply in it for the money to blackmail the sport and the fans so they can either off set there investment cost or remain on top and win the prize money.. its not just Ferrari but all the big teams.

I'm pretty sure if Sauber can survive on a budget of less then a third of the big teams... Ferrari can survive as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13437
Glasnost wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


No not rude mate. You make vaild points.

But there is no othersport in the world outside of maybe professional oylimpians that pays the participants to partake. (Maybe you could think of dozens.. I can't.... not being rude serious question)

The idea that the organisers pay... to keep competitors is absurd. This then means it is the venues and fans that bare the cost for what?... the "privilege of watching".... and when these competitors can't get their way they threaten to leave and in effect leave the sport in ruin.. . to me that is the very definition of not caring about racing or the fans.

Sure they don't want to give up the tens of millions... but it's at the expense and detriment of the fans and in some countries like my own (Australian) the tax payer. But most importantly the racing.

Using the argument that they aren't villans for not wanting to give up millions of dollars and fall down the field is kinda my point... takeaway the bonuses and the prospect of being on equal footing and they threaten to quit... they are simply in it for the money to blackmail the sport and the fans so they can either off set there investment cost or remain on top and win the prize money.. its not just Ferrari but all the big teams.

I'm pretty sure if Sauber can survive on a budget of less then a third of the big teams... Ferrari can survive as well.


Unless I'm missing something then pretty much every sport I can think of pays it competitors at a professional....

I'll be honest and say I don't know how most American sports are financed but certainly Football, tennis, golf etc


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:52 pm 
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With the NFL, NBA, and MLB the league is owned by the the teams so it doesn't really compare to something like F1 or other motorsports where an organization sets out a series with a set of rules and invites teams to compete.

The revenue sharing that goes on in American pro team sports where big market teams give money to small market teams would send F1 in to a mind bending tizzy.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:10 am
Posts: 89
mikeyg123 wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


No not rude mate. You make vaild points.

But there is no othersport in the world outside of maybe professional oylimpians that pays the participants to partake. (Maybe you could think of dozens.. I can't.... not being rude serious question)

The idea that the organisers pay... to keep competitors is absurd. This then means it is the venues and fans that bare the cost for what?... the "privilege of watching".... and when these competitors can't get their way they threaten to leave and in effect leave the sport in ruin.. . to me that is the very definition of not caring about racing or the fans.

Sure they don't want to give up the tens of millions... but it's at the expense and detriment of the fans and in some countries like my own (Australian) the tax payer. But most importantly the racing.

Using the argument that they aren't villans for not wanting to give up millions of dollars and fall down the field is kinda my point... takeaway the bonuses and the prospect of being on equal footing and they threaten to quit... they are simply in it for the money to blackmail the sport and the fans so they can either off set there investment cost or remain on top and win the prize money.. its not just Ferrari but all the big teams.

I'm pretty sure if Sauber can survive on a budget of less then a third of the big teams... Ferrari can survive as well.


Unless I'm missing something then pretty much every sport I can think of pays it competitors at a professional....

I'll be honest and say I don't know how most American sports are financed but certainly Football, tennis, golf etc


Most sports create a competition.... participants i.e teams pay to participate and potentially win the prizes based of the entry fees and tv deals etc etc etc... teams source funding and sponsors to pay entry into said competition and hire athletes.
Even tennis players have to pay entry fees. Cricket Australia pays the athletes a match fee to play but still have to pay to register the team.. its more complicated but that's the general idea.

Rather then we have a competition... we'll pay you to try and win the prize money.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 22695
Glasnost wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ridiculous post


Yes... the Ferrari break away series assertion is satire mate..
But the rest still stands. F1 needs to stop bowing to Ferrari, Merc, Redbull. McLaren etc.
This whole threatening to quit is getting old... as soon as it looks like these teams can't fill their pockets they threaten to leave.

Any F1 fan can see that these teams don't care about racing or the fans.. take away the historic bonus and they quit... try to equalise the playing field they'll quit...

Sure without them theres no f1 but it won't be much fun if only 5 teams can afford to stay in the sport and they are all hosted in the middle east because the big guys are to busy manipulating and blackmailing the sport at the expense of venues and fans.

Ferrari breakaway then what? Do they actually think they'll make money from it? How much will they charge a venue to host a race or a fan per ticket? Or a team to compete? They are making 100m a year just to stay in f1...I don't think theyll cough up the money to start a break away series... if they did I'd give it a shot... just to see if they can run a fair and competitive series.

However with the way Ferrari conduct business in f1 I am very sceptical that they or any big team would create anything outside of a money grab.

I have no issues with the new owners reforming f1 at the expense of Ferrari or any of the big teams.

Don't mean to be rude, but I think that's a little naïve. Things are a lot more complex than that and wanting to ensure you get the best deal is in no way the same as not being interested in the racing or the fans.

F1 is not a gentleman's sport. It's a sport, certainly, but it's also a business, and a cut-throat one at that. Look how quickly many have written McLaren off after a few short years in the doldrums. They used to be regarded as the face of F1, along with Ferrari. Now they are seen by an increasing number as a has been. And Mercedes, who frankly were a bit player until a few short years ago, have taken their place among the F1's giants.

Ferrari reducing their income will not guarantee a level playing field for everyone else. But it will make it that much harder for them to ensure they remain at the top. Not sure what you mean about them threatening to quit if the field was equalized, but I don't think that's a wholly accurate statement. While I'm against their historic payments from a sporting perspective, I think it's ludicrous to cast them as the villains for not wanting to give up a potentially game-changing tens of millions of dollars per year. Why would anyone do that? Of course they are going to rattle their sabre. But that doesn't mean that they have no respect for racing or the fans. There's nothing to link the two issues.

And, like it or not, F1 needs teams like Ferrari and McLaren. Much of F1 is emotive, else series like A1GP would have had a much better time of it than they did. But the mystique of F1 is part of what draws people to it, and Ferrari know that. They are simply doing what any business does when in a strong negotiating position. It's undeniable that F1 have dug themselves into a bit of a hole by pandering so much in the past and I'm with you that they need to try to break the deadlock, but I draw the line at doing it at all cost. F1 would be diminished without its giants IMO.


No not rude mate. You make vaild points.

But there is no othersport in the world outside of maybe professional oylimpians that pays the participants to partake. (Maybe you could think of dozens.. I can't.... not being rude serious question)

The idea that the organisers pay... to keep competitors is absurd. This then means it is the venues and fans that bare the cost for what?... the "privilege of watching".... and when these competitors can't get their way they threaten to leave and in effect leave the sport in ruin.. . to me that is the very definition of not caring about racing or the fans.

Sure they don't want to give up the tens of millions... but it's at the expense and detriment of the fans and in some countries like my own (Australian) the tax payer. But most importantly the racing.

Using the argument that they aren't villans for not wanting to give up millions of dollars and fall down the field is kinda my point... takeaway the bonuses and the prospect of being on equal footing and they threaten to quit... they are simply in it for the money to blackmail the sport and the fans so they can either off set there investment cost or remain on top and win the prize money.. its not just Ferrari but all the big teams.

I'm pretty sure if Sauber can survive on a budget of less then a third of the big teams... Ferrari can survive as well.

Surely all sports fans ultimately pay for the privilege of watching? How many (professional) sports venues are free, for example? There's prize money in every professional sport, so I don't really understand why F1 should be different. And every major sport I know grants the competitors a share of the TV revenues. I don't get the problem, here.

I don't think I'd agree with the link between Ferrari not wanting to give up tens of millions and this being to the detriment of the fans and the tax payer. How do you dr4aw that conclusion? If Ferrari give that up (not likely), then the money will likely be absorbed into the rest of the prize funds and redistributed among the teams. But it won't make a difference, financially at least, to any fans or taxpayers anywhere. And, although I do agree it's unfair, I doubt the money Ferrari receives would make that much impact on the racing on its own.

Look at it another way: if you earned 100K and none of your colleagues earned more than 80K, would you be happy voluntarily giving up 20K to spread amongst the others? Personally, I'd be more inclined to tell my boss to narrow the gap using his own funds, rather than asking me to unilaterally take a cut. Would that make me a villain? I struggle to blame the teams for not wanting to give away something for nothing.

Last point - it's not about surviving, surely? Who wants to just survive?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13437
Glasnost wrote:

Most sports create a competition.... participants i.e teams pay to participate and potentially win the prizes based of the entry fees and tv deals etc etc etc... teams source funding and sponsors to pay entry into said competition and hire athletes.
Even tennis players have to pay entry fees. Cricket Australia pays the athletes a match fee to play but still have to pay to register the team.. its more complicated but that's the general idea.

Rather then we have a competition... we'll pay you to try and win the prize money.


Is that not essentially how F1 works?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Glasnost wrote:

Most sports create a competition.... participants i.e teams pay to participate and potentially win the prizes based of the entry fees and tv deals etc etc etc... teams source funding and sponsors to pay entry into said competition and hire athletes.
Even tennis players have to pay entry fees. Cricket Australia pays the athletes a match fee to play but still have to pay to register the team.. its more complicated but that's the general idea.

Rather then we have a competition... we'll pay you to try and win the prize money.


Is that not essentially how F1 works?


You've got to put into context with my other arguments and comments mate.

Paying teams bonuses to stay in the sport as soon as they threaten to leave is not how other sports work.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Glasnost wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Glasnost wrote:

Most sports create a competition.... participants i.e teams pay to participate and potentially win the prizes based of the entry fees and tv deals etc etc etc... teams source funding and sponsors to pay entry into said competition and hire athletes.
Even tennis players have to pay entry fees. Cricket Australia pays the athletes a match fee to play but still have to pay to register the team.. its more complicated but that's the general idea.

Rather then we have a competition... we'll pay you to try and win the prize money.


Is that not essentially how F1 works?


You've got to put into context with my other arguments and comments mate.

Paying teams bonuses to stay in the sport as soon as they threaten to leave is not how other sports work.


You don't know that for certain. BTW, appearance money has been paid to athletes for ages... why? Because promoters realize the value of certain names to their events, whatever they maybe. It is nothing new. When an athlete, or in this case a team, helps insure or enhance the financial sucess of your venture, then it makes sense to be sure they are present even if it means paying them extra.

The other factor that many here love to ignore is the money Ferrari brings into the sport, . Not just what they take. Like it or not... Ferrari is not just any team to F1.

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