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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.crash.net/motogp/results/892839/1/argentina-motogp-free-practice-2-results

Honda looking ominous in Argentina.

Which is ominous for the rest of the year. Actually Marquez almost winning in Qatar was ominous enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.crash.net/motogp/results/892839/1/argentina-motogp-free-practice-2-results

Honda looking ominous in Argentina.

Which is ominous for the rest of the year. Actually Marquez almost winning in Qatar was ominous enough.

Yeah it looks to be a better bike this year, I'm expecting Marquez domination for the season.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Meanwhile in Moto3, Aaron Canet gets a massive let-off after this incident.
The Sportsman wrote:
Incredibly, Canet seems to have got away with it after the FIM stewards have deemed the collision a racing incident..
https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/moto-gp-rider-rams-rival-off-the-road-in-moment-of-madness

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:25 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Meanwhile in Moto3, Aaron Canet gets a massive let-off after this incident.
The Sportsman wrote:
Incredibly, Canet seems to have got away with it after the FIM stewards have deemed the collision a racing incident..
https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/moto-gp-rider-rams-rival-off-the-road-in-moment-of-madness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6IxIbxaj6M
Should be a race ban IMO


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Where to start...craziest race in GP I’ve ever seen.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:54 pm 
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crazy crazy from marquez on more then one occasion. his biggest strength can be his biggest weakness. there is controlled aggression, theres is mental and then there is marquez. should be a grid penalty at next race also for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Best race ive seen.

Too much action for cameraman/director to keeo up with. The Rossi/Marquez clash sets up the rest of the seasons animosity perfectly.

Feel sorry for Pedrosa.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Marquez could still win in Texas starting at the back.

Rins suzuki look great.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Don't think that I've seen Marquez work so hard for zero points! Such pace, but those desperate dives... to be fair, he had put hand up to them so I hope that Rossi at least acknowledges that much.
As a Brit, I must say great ride from Crutchlow for the win - plus kudos to Zarco, Rins and - until the latter part, Miller - for the entertainment at the front.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:07 am 
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Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:15 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Don't think that I've seen Marquez work so hard for zero points! Such pace, but those desperate dives... to be fair, he had put hand up to them so I hope that Rossi at least acknowledges that much.
As a Brit, I must say great ride from Crutchlow for the win - plus kudos to Zarco, Rins and - until the latter part, Miller - for the entertainment at the front.

OK - disappointed in Rossi's response. Yes, Marquez was well in the wrong, but deliberately..?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:26 pm 
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IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
crazy crazy from marquez on more then one occasion. his biggest strength can be his biggest weakness. there is controlled aggression, theres is mental and then there is marquez. should be a grid penalty at next race also for me.

He basically got disqualified from the race so he's been punished already.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:22 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.

He scored zero points for the race so that might make him take note?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:23 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
Don't think that I've seen Marquez work so hard for zero points! Such pace, but those desperate dives... to be fair, he had put hand up to them so I hope that Rossi at least acknowledges that much.
As a Brit, I must say great ride from Crutchlow for the win - plus kudos to Zarco, Rins and - until the latter part, Miller - for the entertainment at the front.

OK - disappointed in Rossi's response. Yes, Marquez was well in the wrong, but deliberately..?

Politics, Rossi has no chance of winning the title against Marquez.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:26 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.

Was that not Phillip Island were Marquez passed Lorenzo and won the race?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:50 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.

Was that not Phillip Island were Marquez passed Lorenzo and won the race?

He did manage to win but he had the pace to break away and he instead made sure to gum up Rossi before making his charge. Then in Malaysia there was that battle where Marc was just getting in front of Rossi to slow him down despite having the pace to probably win that race. Once he knew he wasn't going to be champion he focused on making sure Rossi didn't win it. It was subtle enough to maintain deniability but that's absolutely what he did that year.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)


Then, Rossi should never have started Valencia race two years ago. And also should have missed, at least, the first two of the following year... His kick to Marquez in Malaysia had been clearly planned and on purpose, contrary to the one yesterday...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:02 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.


I ride motorbikes as well, and Malaysia was abhorrent from the point of view of what Rossi did. Not Marquez. Any other interpretation smacks of double standards.

Rossi has been, throughout the years, one of the dirtier riders out there...

Marquez may be a little bit over the line at times, and he needs to control it. Although I guess it may be in part a natural consequence of being so fast, as he actually needs to be very much on the limit to be able to be as fast as he is... Still, he'll need to be more aware of it. But in my experience, over thirty years motorcycle riding and watching, the guy is not trying deliberately to crash or wrong anyone. The same can not be said of Rossi.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:22 pm 
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-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.


I ride motorbikes as well, and Malaysia was abhorrent from the point of view of what Rossi did. Not Marquez. Any other interpretation smacks of double standards.

Rossi has been, throughout the years, one of the dirtier riders out there...

Marquez may be a little bit over the line at times, and he needs to control it. Although I guess it may be in part a natural consequence of being so fast, as he actually needs to be very much on the limit to be able to be as fast as he is... Still, he'll need to be more aware of it. But in my experience, over thirty years motorcycle riding and watching, the guy is not trying deliberately to crash or wrong anyone. The same can not be said of Rossi.

Rossi has certainly crossed the line at times during his career. I think a lot of people would say that his battle with Stoner in 2008 at Laguna Seca was over the limit. Also that last corner pass on Gibernau at Jerez in 2005 was again crossing the line in my view. The difference is that, with Rossi, it's a handful of incidents over the course of many seasons. With Marquez; the questionable lunge is something you can set your watch to if he's within shouting distance on the last lap. He will go for it no matter what and it will be up to the rider in front of him to ensure that there isn't a crash. If I was so inclined I could go back through his career in the premiere class and find more than a dozen such incidents. I can recall even from his Moto2 days overtaking that was over the line and running people off the track.

In terms of Malaysia; yes Rossi crossed the line there but let me ask you this: do you think that battle was one where Marquez and Rossi were on similar pace and just kept overtaking each other? Did you not see that Marc could easily get by Rossi and then was slowing him down intentionally while Lorenzo pulled away; forcing Rossi to retake the position before doing the whole thing over again? If you didn't perceive that, you missed it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:58 am 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.

He scored zero points for the race so that might make him take note?

Or it'll just get worse.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:19 am 
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Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:29 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.

Was that not Phillip Island were Marquez passed Lorenzo and won the race?

He did manage to win but he had the pace to break away and he instead made sure to gum up Rossi before making his charge. Then in Malaysia there was that battle where Marc was just getting in front of Rossi to slow him down despite having the pace to probably win that race. Once he knew he wasn't going to be champion he focused on making sure Rossi didn't win it. It was subtle enough to maintain deniability but that's absolutely what he did that year.

There is a bit of inconsistency though were Marquez passed Lorenzo in Philip Island but sat behind him in Valencia after he had been accused by Rossi, the theory in PI was that Marquez would never sacrifice a win to help Lorenzo, the actual subtlety would have been Marquez not being able to catch Lorenzo at PI.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:33 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.


I ride motorbikes as well, and Malaysia was abhorrent from the point of view of what Rossi did. Not Marquez. Any other interpretation smacks of double standards.

Rossi has been, throughout the years, one of the dirtier riders out there...

Marquez may be a little bit over the line at times, and he needs to control it. Although I guess it may be in part a natural consequence of being so fast, as he actually needs to be very much on the limit to be able to be as fast as he is... Still, he'll need to be more aware of it. But in my experience, over thirty years motorcycle riding and watching, the guy is not trying deliberately to crash or wrong anyone. The same can not be said of Rossi.

Rossi has certainly crossed the line at times during his career. I think a lot of people would say that his battle with Stoner in 2008 at Laguna Seca was over the limit. Also that last corner pass on Gibernau at Jerez in 2005 was again crossing the line in my view. The difference is that, with Rossi, it's a handful of incidents over the course of many seasons. With Marquez; the questionable lunge is something you can set your watch to if he's within shouting distance on the last lap. He will go for it no matter what and it will be up to the rider in front of him to ensure that there isn't a crash. If I was so inclined I could go back through his career in the premiere class and find more than a dozen such incidents. I can recall even from his Moto2 days overtaking that was over the line and running people off the track.

In terms of Malaysia; yes Rossi crossed the line there but let me ask you this: do you think that battle was one where Marquez and Rossi were on similar pace and just kept overtaking each other? Did you not see that Marc could easily get by Rossi and then was slowing him down intentionally while Lorenzo pulled away; forcing Rossi to retake the position before doing the whole thing over again? If you didn't perceive that, you missed it.

Malaysia was were Rossi accused Marquez of helping Lorenzo at Philip Island and so Marquez responded the way he did.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.

He scored zero points for the race so that might make him take note?

Or it'll just get worse.

He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:38 pm 
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mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.

He scored zero points for the race so that might make him take note?

Or it'll just get worse.

He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Marquez is out of control. He's easily the best in the world but he routinely crosses the line with other riders and with the bike. It's time for Marc to grow up.

He scored zero points for the race so that might make him take note?

Or it'll just get worse.

He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:55 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.

That would seem to make more sense I was just repeating how they explained it away.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:43 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Battle Far wrote:
IMO there are two very strong reasons for Marquez receiving a 3 race ban

1. His racing incidents always occur in a manner which threaten worse consequences for his rivals than himself, the implication is that at least in part they are premeditated

2. It'll make for a far more interesting season :-)

The reality is that I've noticed a big difference between fans who actually ride (like myself) and fans who watch races but don't ride motorbikes. A lot of fans, for example, thought Rossi was being absurd back in 2015 when he blamed Marquez for intentionally sabotaging his race in Malaysia during that crazy battle but riders knew that that's exactly what Marc did. He intentionally slowed Rossi down and let Lorenzo build a lead. The people who don't see that cannot be blamed but it was blatantly obvious to those who knew what they were watching.

Here's what I'll say about Marc: he's absolutely the fastest and most talented rider in the world right now without any question in my mind. Unfortunately though, Rossi hit the nail on the head with his comments. Marc doesn't have respect for the other riders nor for anyone else at the track. He feels entitled to winning. That's why he ignored the marshal and it's why he bulled his way through the field as if he was playing a video game against AI.

You'll notice that Marc always has a lunge at the end of the race if he's in second and chasing the leader. It doesn't matter whether the move is there or not, he'll just throw the bike in there and force the other guy to avoid an accident. Did that in Qatar actually and it's a consistent pattern. He just lunges and puts the other guy in jeopardy. Some of the tougher guys like Rossi and Dovi can sometimes overcome that but it's really unacceptable that they basically know it's coming and that they have to be ready to defend themselves against his unsafe riding. It needs to stop. He's not a rookie anymore. He's a 25 year old with 4 MotoGP titles. His riding is not acceptable.


I ride motorbikes as well, and Malaysia was abhorrent from the point of view of what Rossi did. Not Marquez. Any other interpretation smacks of double standards.

Rossi has been, throughout the years, one of the dirtier riders out there...

Marquez may be a little bit over the line at times, and he needs to control it. Although I guess it may be in part a natural consequence of being so fast, as he actually needs to be very much on the limit to be able to be as fast as he is... Still, he'll need to be more aware of it. But in my experience, over thirty years motorcycle riding and watching, the guy is not trying deliberately to crash or wrong anyone. The same can not be said of Rossi.

Rossi has certainly crossed the line at times during his career. I think a lot of people would say that his battle with Stoner in 2008 at Laguna Seca was over the limit. Also that last corner pass on Gibernau at Jerez in 2005 was again crossing the line in my view. The difference is that, with Rossi, it's a handful of incidents over the course of many seasons. With Marquez; the questionable lunge is something you can set your watch to if he's within shouting distance on the last lap. He will go for it no matter what and it will be up to the rider in front of him to ensure that there isn't a crash. If I was so inclined I could go back through his career in the premiere class and find more than a dozen such incidents. I can recall even from his Moto2 days overtaking that was over the line and running people off the track.

In terms of Malaysia; yes Rossi crossed the line there but let me ask you this: do you think that battle was one where Marquez and Rossi were on similar pace and just kept overtaking each other? Did you not see that Marc could easily get by Rossi and then was slowing him down intentionally while Lorenzo pulled away; forcing Rossi to retake the position before doing the whole thing over again? If you didn't perceive that, you missed it.


Again, I see a rider that needs a little more control, but is basically, and I don't like the word much, 'noble' in his approach. And another one that has been deliberate in his use of dirty tricks for his entire career...

And no, I think the Malaysia incident was just an interpretation of facts fabricated by Rossi. With amazing response from the public, I have to say...
This is my interpretation. I can not be sure of what really happened. Honestly, I don't think anybody can, except Marquez. Not even Rossi. What I saw does not merit IMO Rossi's interpretation of facts.
And certainly does nothing to condone Rossi's actions. What I find amazing is that he has been able to turn, in people's minds, one of his most outrageous actions against his victim. Something he has been known to do repeatedly with success. But it is still abhorrent...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:28 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:

Or it'll just get worse.

He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:24 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:

Or it'll just get worse.

He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:10 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He will have points on his license as well so he will hardly get worse, he got penalised 3 times during the race the last one basically was a black flag and like I say will have points on his license, appropriate action was taken against Marquez but some are still baying for more blood it seems?

Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:00 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.


That is correct, but the worry was that 23 riders racing from the pitlane was unsafe, especially with a variable track, so the decision was made to make them start from the back as much as the could with the space allowed. That's what I got from Ezpeleta, anyway. I'm not sure I entirely agree but it does make sense. When this happened similarly at the Sachsenring a few years ago with 4 or 5 riders, it was dangerous and they were elbowing and banging immediately, so the thought of 23 riders doing the same could have caused mass carnage, which would have robbed us all of what eventually happened.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Not sure I understand the question (or if it's directed at me in the first place)?

Maybe not everyone agree what's appropriate?

I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

Why would you think that he might get worse?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:51 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I took that as Marquez wasn't penalised enough so it will not act as a deterrent for him.

So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

Why would you think that he might get worse?

Frustration.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.


That is correct, but the worry was that 23 riders racing from the pitlane was unsafe, especially with a variable track, so the decision was made to make them start from the back as much as the could with the space allowed. That's what I got from Ezpeleta, anyway. I'm not sure I entirely agree but it does make sense. When this happened similarly at the Sachsenring a few years ago with 4 or 5 riders, it was dangerous and they were elbowing and banging immediately, so the thought of 23 riders doing the same could have caused mass carnage, which would have robbed us all of what eventually happened.


I get that, but Miller really got the bad end of the deal.

If they were making rules up on the spot anyway, they might as well have implemented flag to flag for those that didn't swap tyres before the start, and have given those that did swap tyres a ride-through. Done.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 pm 
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That would be too much, for me. Handing him the win like that.

The bigger picture has to always be kept in mind; I think they made a good choice in the interests of safety. Miller still had a sizable advantage at the start, and the other riders were penalized to the back.

I thought I'd link this, also--David Emmet's race write up from the weekend. The third part dealing with the hot topic of MM v. VR. Great article.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp ... 18-part-3/

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