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 Post subject: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:59 am 
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The 2018 Canadian Grand Prix marked the fifth time in seven races this year's Red Bull has set the fastest lap of the race. Verstappen ended up picking up the quickest lap in Canada after team-mate Ricciardo's quicker lap was invalidated by the chequered flag mishap. So in Canada the two Red Bulls theoretically set the fastest and second fastest laps.

The car's obviously got a lot of potential, and with one-lap pace they've shown in races should be able to get into contention top honours at the end of the season. As it stands they're 55 points behind Ferrari and 72 points behind Mercedes.

What does Red Bull need to work on to make the most of what is clearly a car with some solid potential?

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:15 am 
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Qualifying mainly.

They seem to have great race pace, but quite often aren't on the front row and sometimes at the back of the top 6.

The Renault seems improved, but still can't quite match that special pace Ferrari and Mercedes seem to bring to Q2 and Q3.

If the Bulls were on the front row each race I think we'd see them on the top step of the podium more often.


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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:33 am 
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track position is king, so yeah, they need to improve their qualifying pace, which I have to say they have been doing recently. They're on the right path and I think things are looking good for them.


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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:09 am 
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I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.


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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:17 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks.


Could very well be.

About the fastest laps yesterday, I'm not sure whether they are really indicative of pace. Vettel was managing at the front, I suspect he might have been able to go faster when really pressed. The fact that Bottas was closer in the first stint and Vettel was setting fastest laps when needed (even after flatspotting his front right) indicates the Ferrari was faster.

Likewise, we had Hamilton trapped behind Ricciardo, seemingly holding the potential to go quite a bit faster than Ricciardo if he wouldn't have been behind.

So hard to really say, but I don't think it's safe to say the RB14 was the fastest car in race pace yesterday.

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:43 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.


That would explain Ricciardo's disappointment when he was told live on air that he hadn't actually set the fastest lap. I thought he was just exaggerating his disappointment for the cameras. He handled it a lot better than I would have if I'd just been robbed of $200k though.

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:47 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.

That's an outrageous sum for something as vain as getting the FL...

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:50 am 
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Toby. wrote:
He handled it a lot better than I would have if I'd just been robbed of $200k though.


Of course he did... These guys earn so much that not winning an extra 200K is just an inconvenience rather than a real setback. He'll still basically buy and do what he wants regardless of being granted that :)

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:01 am 
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mds wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks.


Could very well be.

About the fastest laps yesterday, I'm not sure whether they are really indicative of pace. Vettel was managing at the front, I suspect he might have been able to go faster when really pressed. The fact that Bottas was closer in the first stint and Vettel was setting fastest laps when needed (even after flatspotting his front right) indicates the Ferrari was faster.

Likewise, we had Hamilton trapped behind Ricciardo, seemingly holding the potential to go quite a bit faster than Ricciardo if he wouldn't have been behind.

So hard to really say, but I don't think it's safe to say the RB14 was the fastest car in race pace yesterday.

Hamilton didn't have bags more pace than Ricciardo, but he was definitely being held up. I did think the extra DRS zone was going to be enough to keep him close enough to try a move at some point, but even that wasn't enough to overcome the dirty air.

The hotlapping is odd though. Sure they get bonuses but the pace has to be in the car somewhere too. This year's Ultra has already shown the somewhat Bridgestone like characteristic of coming back to life if you give it a breather for a lap or two - can anyone who was watching live timing confirm if there were some non traffic related slower laps from either Red Bull?

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:02 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.


It's the reason why Vettel in the Redbull days use to go for the fastest lap at the end of the race.


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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:17 am 
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Rockie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.


It's the reason why Vettel in the Redbull days use to go for the fastest lap at the end of the race.


Not sure, it seems he liked to collected them for personal enjoyment. Refer to this tidbit from the 2013 Monaco GP:
Quote:
78 Guillaume Rocquelin Sebastian Vettel Alright, that’s enough. You’re not getting any more points for that.
78 Sebastian Vettel Guillaume Rocquelin But satisfaction rather than going slow for 77 laps.
78 Guillaume Rocquelin Sebastian Vettel There’s no satisfaction for us in that one though. You might enjoy yourself, we don’t like it.
78 Sebastian Vettel Guillaume Rocquelin Let’s discuss this after the race.

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:19 am 
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jono794 wrote:
Hamilton didn't have bags more pace than Ricciardo, but he was definitely being held up.


I'm not really sure. Hamilton had some traffic get really into the way in the last few laps, dropping him back sometimes to almost 2s, but the amount of time he needed to get back in DRS window sometimes was astonishingly short.

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:44 am 
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mds wrote:
jono794 wrote:
Hamilton didn't have bags more pace than Ricciardo, but he was definitely being held up.


I'm not really sure. Hamilton had some traffic get really into the way in the last few laps, dropping him back sometimes to almost 2s, but the amount of time he needed to get back in DRS window sometimes was astonishingly short.

Looking back, the aero effect seemed to kick in at around 1.5 seconds which is where I remember Hamilton being for most of the race but I guess the fact he could get into DRS range at all was rather telling.

It would have been interesting to see his clear air pace vs Verstappen too.

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 Post subject: Re: RB14 and quick laps
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:55 am 
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mds wrote:
Rockie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I still don't think their race pace is as good as either Ferrari or Mercedes on most normal tracks. They pump in fastest laps because their drivers are highly motivated. Red Bull apparently pay $200,000 in bonus if their drivers sets the fastest lap of the race.


It's the reason why Vettel in the Redbull days use to go for the fastest lap at the end of the race.


Not sure, it seems he liked to collected them for personal enjoyment. Refer to this tidbit from the 2013 Monaco GP:
Quote:
78 Guillaume Rocquelin Sebastian Vettel Alright, that’s enough. You’re not getting any more points for that.
78 Sebastian Vettel Guillaume Rocquelin But satisfaction rather than going slow for 77 laps.
78 Guillaume Rocquelin Sebastian Vettel There’s no satisfaction for us in that one though. You might enjoy yourself, we don’t like it.
78 Sebastian Vettel Guillaume Rocquelin Let’s discuss this after the race.


That was because no one could touch the lap he had already done and also no point stressing the engine, it's one thing I miss though about Vettel leaving Redbull the relationship between Vettel and Rocky.


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