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Driver(s) of the day was / were:-
1. Lewis Hamilton 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
2. Valtteri Bottas 11%  11%  [ 19 ]
3. Sebastian Vettel 30%  30%  [ 52 ]
4. Kimi Raikkonen 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
5. Daniel Ricciardo 6%  6%  [ 10 ]
6. Max Verstappen 13%  13%  [ 22 ]
7. Sergio Perez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8. Esteban Ocon 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
9. Sergey Sirotkin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10. Lance Stroll 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
11. Fernando Alonso 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
12. Stoffel Vandoorne 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
13. Pierre Gasly 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
14. Brandon Hartley 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
15. Romain Grosjean 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
16. Kevin Magnussen 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
17. Nico Hulkenberg 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
18. Carlos Sainz 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
19. Marcus Ericsson 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
20. Charles Leclerc 23%  23%  [ 39 ]
Total votes : 172
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:29 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Just amazes me that Hamilton has more voted than Grosjean. But maybe people are doing it to wind people like me up. Despite Hamilton having an issue, I don't think there is much of a reason to vote him. He may have had to pit early, but when coming out of the pits, he ran wide and lost his chance of possibly getting past Ricciardo. He just hasn't looked comfortable this weekend since qualifying began.


Some people vote for their favourite driver regardless of the outcome, Hamilton, Vettel, Raikonnen and Alonso all seem to get a few odd votes every race even if they've put it in the wall, best not to get vexed over it lol.

LeClerc, Vettel and Verstappen for me; LeClerc looks solid gold from where i'm sitting, Ericsson is one of the worst team mates to have in a slow car because he is pretty underrated himself, and being towards the back limits just how much distance you can put between you and him. LeClerc is making that look elementary, and as I said in the race topic, if you're a Kimi fan, it's squeeky bum time because the Frenchman is making a bloody good case to be sat in his seat. Vettel was peerless this weekend, big win on a track that Hamilton holds dear. Verstappen overcame a lot of nonsense about the way he goes about racing to pick up the last podium spot... the speed won't ever be in doubt, he just needs to hook it up most weekends like he did this one.

Idiot of the race.... probably Stroll, though at least he had the good grace to accept the blame even after Claire Williams made herself look a bit silly with his defence. Perez gets a mention for black flag nonsense talk too.


Stroll lost the car, it was a racing incident, I wouldn't call him race idiot. That should go to Perez probably

Yes, I thought this was just a racing incident. And I wouldn't say Stroll was more at fault than Hartley actually. Hartly was very optomistic to attempt an overtake there. I feel it was Stroll having to try to give him a bit of room that may have triggered him to slip and then collide. I think they both have to share the blame. But the decision was right. There wasn't a clear to blame driver like there was at this track with Sainz last year.. Not sure why so many still heavily blame Stroll.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:40 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
And I don't know what clear evidence you've got in the last 4 races that Leclerc has been far better every time...
Baku, ok, Ericsson was bad


OK. As you're making my point yourself, no further argumentation from my side.

Quote:
Spain, although Ericsson did finish behind, these two were the closest pair of team mates that both finished the race.


What kind of criterion is that? How does that prove anything?
Leclerc outqualified Ericsson by .85s and then in the race finished tenth, 18 seconds in front of his teammate in thirteenth. Of course he was much better. Slam dunk.

Quote:
Then Monaco. They pitted 1 lap apart. Ericsson came out 10 seconds behind Leclerc. Then 10 laps later, was behind Leclerc within 2.5 seconds and DRS range. And stayed there until Leclerc was unlucky enough to have a problem. I'm not saying Ericsson was better, but from what we saw, he could well have been as fast or faster. I can't really conclude much though but it was not far better from Leclerc again in the race which is what counts.


It's Monaco. Leclerc was stuck behind Hartley. What do you expect him to do, drive through Hartley?

Quote:
Then as I said, Ericsson pitted on lap 1 in Canada. Strategy ruined. He may well have done a bad job anyway, but he didn't have the chance to show he was decent.


He was miles off Leclerc in qualifying, and even right after pitting was going considerably slower.
He doesn't get a free pass for the race, especially not after that qualifying.

Quote:
In the races (which matter more than qualifying) I do not see how Leclerc has been far better. Concidering he's a rookie with 7 races, then yes, that is certainly impressive, but given Ericsson's reputation and that Leclerc hasn't been far better every race makes me wonder why Leclerc is so highly rated.


I don't get this. You're basically hiding behind events in the race to say "we can't say whether Leclerc was much better because so and so happened" and then because you "can't say" Leclerc was much better you say you wonder why Leclerc is highly rated?

Well, probably because Leclerc has been delivering during races regardless of Ericsson being perhaps unlucky or the nature of Monaco or ...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:14 am 
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Well you have certainly made some points there mds. But I don't like to reply without trying to give some reasoning. But I think I took it too far.

In simpler wording, I don't think 4 races is enough to say Leclerc is already far better than Ericsoon. From what you have explained, I will give you Baku, Spain and Canada. He did get beaten by some margin in all of them. But I still think Ericsson drove solid a race in Spain. Keeping Sainz behind when he hadn't yet pitted and Sainz had for 10 laps was pretty good. I thought that in Canada that Vandoorne and Ericsson both suffered damage from the first corner incident and may explain why they were both somewhat at the back and pretty slow. But yes, Leclerc was way better in qualifying and did have a much better weekend. Monaco is Monaco like you say. My point was that during the race, all we saw is that Ericsson was quicker at one stage. There was a reason why leclerc couldn't go quicker. But we can't say ones pace was better than the other there from what we saw. But Leclerc again did have a better weekend.

Ignore what I said earlier. Hopefully this is a more fair point. I just think we need to be quite a bit further into this season to conclude that Leclerc is far better. Just my opinion. And I do think that it is very likely to be the case that Leclerc will keep getting better.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:08 am 
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Well yes, I always like to make the distinction between how good someone IS and how well someone is DOING. It's much too early to make definitive statements about Leclerc but at this point I think he's fully matching expectations.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:23 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel, he nailed qualifying.

How does qualifying count for driver of the day on race day?

Maybe because you can't overtake, it was a key element to him winning the race plus in the race he also seemed to be the quickest so there is also that, qualifying was very close, if Hamilton had not messed up the outcome of the race may have been different again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Just amazes me that Hamilton has more voted than Grosjean. But maybe people are doing it to wind people like me up. Despite Hamilton having an issue, I don't think there is much of a reason to vote him. He may have had to pit early, but when coming out of the pits, he ran wide and lost his chance of possibly getting past Ricciardo. He just hasn't looked comfortable this weekend since qualifying began.


Some people vote for their favourite driver regardless of the outcome, Hamilton, Vettel, Raikonnen and Alonso all seem to get a few odd votes every race even if they've put it in the wall, best not to get vexed over it lol.

LeClerc, Vettel and Verstappen for me; LeClerc looks solid gold from where i'm sitting, Ericsson is one of the worst team mates to have in a slow car because he is pretty underrated himself, and being towards the back limits just how much distance you can put between you and him. LeClerc is making that look elementary, and as I said in the race topic, if you're a Kimi fan, it's squeeky bum time because the Frenchman is making a bloody good case to be sat in his seat. Vettel was peerless this weekend, big win on a track that Hamilton holds dear. Verstappen overcame a lot of nonsense about the way he goes about racing to pick up the last podium spot... the speed won't ever be in doubt, he just needs to hook it up most weekends like he did this one.

Idiot of the race.... probably Stroll, though at least he had the good grace to accept the blame even after Claire Williams made herself look a bit silly with his defence. Perez gets a mention for black flag nonsense talk too.


I think a lot of the races between Leclerc and Ericsson have been a bit difficult to compare. Ericsson certainly seems to have a weakness in qualifying at the moment, but aside from Baku, I don't think he's been bad at all in the races. In Monaco, there wasn't really any evidence that either was quicker. The only thing that we did see is that Ericsson was faster until he caught up to Leclerc, who was stuck behind Hartley. Leclerc is certainly looking solid, but IMO, it is way to soon for other teams to start considering him. He didn't look good in the first 3 races and only 4 weekends have gone by since then. 2 of which Ericsson didn't look significantly worse in. And he often gets really heavily criticised for being terrible. Regarding the latest race, Leclerc again did do really well and I think Sauber are certainly turning things around at the moment. I think Ericsson only will have pitted on lap 1 if the team wanted to try an insane strategy that wouldn't work or had picked up damage due to the first lap incident. So that is another race difficult to compare them. I think that given Ericsson hasn't been that far off Leclerc's race pace recently shows that either Ericsson is very under rated, or Leclerc isn't quite what I would call amazing just yet. Given his experience, then yes, that makes it more impressive but I think there are still a lot of better drivers out there with more experience that would do a better job at Ferrari. Not saying Leclerc won't improve. I certainly it to be the case that he will get really good.

The biggest qualifying gap with teammates is between Leclerc and Ericsson, this would have been even more after Canada if Ericsson had not crashed in qualifying, from what I'm seeing recently Leclerc is often about 6 tenths quicker than Ericsson, then you have the points finishes 4-1 in Leclerc's favour, I don't see anything that says that Ericsson is quite close to Leclerc.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:31 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Hamilton and Leclerc.


The only really positive thing I can say about Lewis' drive this weekend is that he did keep pestering Ricciardo after he lost out to him on the overcut.

Lewis' bobble on his outlap in front of Leclerc may have provided the difference in Daniel's ability to get by Lewis on the round of pitstops.

yes I'd forgotten about that moment. Could well be right there

I think that Hamilton my have just got Ricciardo when he came out the pits. But if I am correct, when Hamilton came out, he ran really wide and nearly went off track. He just didn't have the grip and was trying a bit too hard to me. If it wasn't for him running wide and loosing a bit of time, I think he may have managed t get Ricciardo then and stay ahead. I don't know why anyone has voted for Hamilton as a driver of the day though. I'd say most on the grid looked better than him for the ability of their cars today. Hamilton seems rather up and down so far this season.


In Lewis' defense, I have seen a couple of sources that suggested his electrical boost dropping in and out could have cost him as much as 160 horse power when it dropped out. Both Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff said that Lewis did not have the car to take the fight to Max or to repass Daniel.

If he was down that much on HP during portions of the race, I would have to call it a fairly decent drive for Hamilton. I hope they get their new power units up to snuff and in the cars for France.

Yeah it's sort of strange when I'm called out for using qualifying in this but Hamilton's race was basically ruined by his qualifying, the poor race itself had nothing to do with Hamilton, it was down to his engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:34 am 
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Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:35 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:

I think a lot of the races between Leclerc and Ericsson have been a bit difficult to compare.


Oh come on, why must you do this every time? Leclerc is a rookie, took just a few races to settle in and is now already doing a lot better than Ericsson. The points tally is clear, sentiment in and around the paddock is too. You can fabricate stories on how actually everybody is wrong and mention a host of details to Ericsson's defense in order to paint him a better driver than he is but in the end he's getting a solid beating from a rookie with now 7 races on his tally.

That's the way it is.


I'm starting to think that Hogweed is actually Ericsson...or at least a cousin of Ericsson... the guy sure does like to talk him up.

Would Ericsson himself or his cousin rate him near the bottom of the grid? I think Even Ericsson himself will realise he isn't very good. And I don't think he is either. There are only 2 or 3 drivers I would rate lower than him. It is just the fact that leclerc getting rated so highly against what many call a terrible driver that makes me wonder why people think Leclerc is so good. When Ericsson wasn't far off at all even in a very recent race. I do believe Leclerc is already better, but not by that much in race pace yet. Qualifying, yes. And will he get much better.

It's the gap that is impressive, he's not just beating Ericsson he's starting to slaughter him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:51 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.


Hamilton had a chassis related problem that caused the overheating. I don't think he had an engine problem, did he?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:58 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.


Hamilton had a chassis related problem that caused the overheating. I don't think he had an engine problem, did he?

Yeah I did hear something of the sort although Mercedes were being a bit secretive about it, the upside was that it caused his engine to be down on power which was what made him slow.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability

Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability

Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.


Hamilton had a chassis related problem that caused the overheating. I don't think he had an engine problem, did he?

Yeah I did hear something of the sort although Mercedes were being a bit secretive about it, the upside was that it caused his engine to be down on power which was what made him slow.


I think they removed some panels from his headrest to improve the airflow for the cooling. No idea if they are allowed to remove parts of the car during a race, is it legal as long as it makes the minimum weight?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability

Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The top three.

Special mention to Gasly going from 19th to 11th in a race with zero overtaking.

Half mention to Ricciardo who, allegedly struggling with the new engine, managed to provide just about the only excitement of the race in the pit stops with Lewis Hamilton.

Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.


Hamilton had a chassis related problem that caused the overheating. I don't think he had an engine problem, did he?

Yeah I did hear something of the sort although Mercedes were being a bit secretive about it, the upside was that it caused his engine to be down on power which was what made him slow.


I think they removed some panels from his headrest to improve the airflow for the cooling. No idea if they are allowed to remove parts of the car during a race, is it legal as long as it makes the minimum weight?

Right I think I half heard that because I was busy doing my competition for this site, I'm sure I heard it said that it was part of the design that they could do that hence they lost no time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Strange when you mention Ricciardo's struggles with what was basically a healthy engine beating Hamilton who actually had a faulty engine.

apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability

Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
apparently he found it gave him very poor driveability

Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

yeah the power losses were only in the race. Hamilton was complaining before his pit stop but I don't recall any complaints after. His engineer told him everything had been fixed and he could just go for it


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

yeah the power losses were only in the race. Hamilton was complaining before his pit stop but I don't recall any complaints after. His engineer told him everything had been fixed and he could just go for it


They only thing that I remember is that he was wary in the last couple of laps about the engine blowing up. But the quali was just poor, the 2 tenths slower seem to be valid


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure the power loss - aside from the simple age of the engine - was limited to Sunday. His main loss of time in quali appeared to be locking his brake at the hairpin every lap.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure the power loss - aside from the simple age of the engine - was limited to Sunday. His main loss of time in quali appeared to be locking his brake at the hairpin every lap.


Yet another case of his team failing him.
:)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure the power loss - aside from the simple age of the engine - was limited to Sunday. His main loss of time in quali appeared to be locking his brake at the hairpin every lap.


Yet another case of his team failing him.
:)


Was it the same brake duct as the one that they found the dead bird inside?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:08 am 
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Interesting comment from Mark Hughes in his race report:

Vandoorne couldn’t avoid the debris and the McLaren picked up a right-front puncture. After stopping for replacements, he didn’t really have enough suitable tyres left to go the distance, his race effectively done.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-canadian-grand-prix-report

So maybe Vandoorne's pace relative to Alonso this weekend wasn't entirely his fault


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:54 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Interesting comment from Mark Hughes in his race report:

Vandoorne couldn’t avoid the debris and the McLaren picked up a right-front puncture. After stopping for replacements, he didn’t really have enough suitable tyres left to go the distance, his race effectively done.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-canadian-grand-prix-report

So maybe Vandoorne's pace relative to Alonso this weekend wasn't entirely his fault
Maybe? 8O He passed Alonso at the start, and was only unlucky with debris. McLaren is slowly imploding, and the joy Stoffel's fans felt at him being with such a famous team, has gone long ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:30 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Which still was nothing compared to the problems that Hamilton was having, Ricciardo was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying with that problem.

I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:32 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

yeah the power losses were only in the race. Hamilton was complaining before his pit stop but I don't recall any complaints after. His engineer told him everything had been fixed and he could just go for it

At that point Hamilton's race was done anyway plus apparently he still was having issues after that, he thought maybe he wouldn't finish the race.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:33 am 
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Blake wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure the power loss - aside from the simple age of the engine - was limited to Sunday. His main loss of time in quali appeared to be locking his brake at the hairpin every lap.


Yet another case of his team failing him.
:)

Preempting something that nobody has actually said.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:34 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure the power loss - aside from the simple age of the engine - was limited to Sunday. His main loss of time in quali appeared to be locking his brake at the hairpin every lap.


Yet another case of his team failing him.
:)


Was it the same brake duct as the one that they found the dead bird inside?

Oh you have heard that as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:42 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

he also said that's where he lost pole, which maybe puts the cars into perspective?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:54 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

he also said that's where he lost pole, which maybe puts the cars into perspective?

The bird or the brake locking?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

he also said that's where he lost pole, which maybe puts the cars into perspective?

The bird or the brake locking?

the brake locking, which as per your post was caused by the bird. I.e. not a car performance issue, but an outside influence


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

he also said that's where he lost pole, which maybe puts the cars into perspective?

The bird or the brake locking?

the brake locking, which as per your post was caused by the bird. I.e. not a car performance issue, but an outside influence

Well I don't know that for certain it just gives scope for it not being Hamilton's fault, that and the issue in the race seems like it just was never meant to be for him this time around.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:00 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not comparing. I'm just fleshing out his issues. The engine may have been healthy, but it wasn't easy to drive (for Ricciardo, at least).


He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

Hamilton never blamed anything else but himself. Either he was being modest or he didn't know about the issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

he also said that's where he lost pole, which maybe puts the cars into perspective?

The bird or the brake locking?

the brake locking, which as per your post was caused by the bird. I.e. not a car performance issue, but an outside influence

Well I don't know that for certain it just gives scope for it not being Hamilton's fault, that and the issue in the race seems like it just was never meant to be for him this time around.

well I never thought it was his fault. I believe I wrote in the qualifying thread that I found it hard to believe that he wouldn't learn from his mistakes so to me it pointed to some kind of setup struggle (at the time). Point is that whether it's setup or bird-in-brake-duct, it's not that the car was slow, just that it had a problem


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
He couldn't find the optimum setting and thus couldn't heat the tyres properly if I got it right. So healthy engine, but if you can't make it work to your liking then not much point I guess

Still as a comparitor he was less than 2 tenths slower than Verstappen in qualifying, Hamilton was said at times to be losing 160hp, I find it hard to believe it was as much as that but still he was losing a lot of power much more than 2 tenths a lap in performance.

Agreed, I find the 160hp figure very iffy (not sure when this came from, I have never seen this figure mentioned by Hamilton or Mercedes).

Hamilton said that the engine wasn't the problem for his poor qualifying, he just couldn't get everything to work. His words.

On that score it's being said that a bird got ingested by the front brake duct in qualifying causing the brake to overheat and presumably causing the locking issue that he had.

Hamilton never blamed anything else but himself. Either he was being modest or he didn't know about the issue.

No maybe just coincidence?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel, he nailed qualifying.

How does qualifying count for driver of the day on race day?

Maybe because you can't overtake, it was a key element to him winning the race plus in the race he also seemed to be the quickest so there is also that, qualifying was very close, if Hamilton had not messed up the outcome of the race may have been different again.

That's an odd view, where they start doesn't affect how well they drive in a race.
Yes it made him able to win easily. In doing so the only effect I can see pole having given is that he didn't need to drive so well, hence he did nothing special in the race and isn't driver of the day...
Many drivers in the pack IMO did things more deserving of the race than Seb given his advantage of Pole and the Ferrari performance in Canada. If the power problems on Hamiltons car were as serious as suggested it could be argued he performed better in the race given where he started and the issues (don't think he was driver of the day, but depending on the extent of the issues who knows).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:31 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel, he nailed qualifying.

How does qualifying count for driver of the day on race day?

Maybe because you can't overtake, it was a key element to him winning the race plus in the race he also seemed to be the quickest so there is also that, qualifying was very close, if Hamilton had not messed up the outcome of the race may have been different again.

That's an odd view, where they start doesn't affect how well they drive in a race.
Yes it made him able to win easily. In doing so the only effect I can see pole having given is that he didn't need to drive so well, hence he did nothing special in the race and isn't driver of the day...
Many drivers in the pack IMO did things more deserving of the race than Seb given his advantage of Pole and the Ferrari performance in Canada. If the power problems on Hamiltons car were as serious as suggested it could be argued he performed better in the race given where he started and the issues (don't think he was driver of the day, but depending on the extent of the issues who knows).

Are drivers in the pack having to compete against the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo, even Bottas?

On a track were you can't overtake how could any driver make a real difference in the race, there's nothing wrong with now and again voting for the driver that actually won the race, also I believe that Vettel got the most votes so it's not like I did anything outlandish.

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