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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:41 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Posts: 14270
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Posts: 28701
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?

Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Posts: 23917
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?

Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

He was for a while, yes


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Posts: 23917
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This whole veto discussion is pretty pointless, regarding Hamilton. He is better than all the other drivers so I don't see why he would care who he has as a teammate. Vettel on the other hand has every reason to worry about who the other driver will be.


That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.

Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Posts: 14270
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Posts: 23917
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

you've lost me?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Posts: 28701
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?

Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

He was for a while, yes

It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Posts: 28701
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
That's what all drivers think. Why singling out Vettel as being worried?

Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.

Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one

If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Posts: 14270
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

you've lost me?


Just making a joke saying that if Bottas keeps performing, Lewis will be trying to convince Toto Ericsson is the perfect driver for Mercedes.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Posts: 28701
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

Yeah I guess that's why Hamilton felt so gutted for Bottas in Baku because if Bottas beats him then he wants him out, or maybe not?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Posts: 14270
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

Yeah I guess that's why Hamilton felt so gutted for Bottas in Baku because if Bottas beats him then he wants him out, or maybe not?


I think if Bottas beats Hamilton to the 2018 championship he'd feel like he would've rather had somebody else. But as I did say, I was only joking.

The fact that the car can't race each other this year will keep things civil between them.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:44 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

Yeah I guess that's why Hamilton felt so gutted for Bottas in Baku because if Bottas beats him then he wants him out, or maybe not?


I think if Bottas beats Hamilton to the 2018 championship he'd feel like he would've rather had somebody else. But as I did say, I was only joking.

The fact that the car can't race each other this year will keep things civil between them.

Hamilton likes Bottas because he's a straight forward honest guy, if Bottas was better he wouldn't like it but he would take it, he admitted that Button was the better man in 2011.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:54 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

Yeah I guess that's why Hamilton felt so gutted for Bottas in Baku because if Bottas beats him then he wants him out, or maybe not?


I think if Bottas beats Hamilton to the 2018 championship he'd feel like he would've rather had somebody else. But as I did say, I was only joking.

The fact that the car can't race each other this year will keep things civil between them.

Hamilton likes Bottas because he's a straight forward honest guy, if Bottas was better he wouldn't like it but he would take it, he admitted that Button was the better man in 2011.


I'm not saying he would be discourteous about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

Yeah I guess that's why Hamilton felt so gutted for Bottas in Baku because if Bottas beats him then he wants him out, or maybe not?


I think if Bottas beats Hamilton to the 2018 championship he'd feel like he would've rather had somebody else. But as I did say, I was only joking.

The fact that the car can't race each other this year will keep things civil between them.

Hamilton likes Bottas because he's a straight forward honest guy, if Bottas was better he wouldn't like it but he would take it, he admitted that Button was the better man in 2011.


I'm not saying he would be discourteous about it.

Well I know you was only joking but he wouldn't be looking to get Bottas replaced, anyway it's only hypothetical I think Bottas would need a Rosberg 2016 season to beat Hamilton.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:38 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Well I know you was only joking but he wouldn't be looking to get Bottas replaced, anyway it's only hypothetical I think Bottas would need a Rosberg 2016 season to beat Hamilton.


Not necessarily. Without the Baku puncture he'd be just 2 points back. He's very much in this championship fight.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:09 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I know you was only joking but he wouldn't be looking to get Bottas replaced, anyway it's only hypothetical I think Bottas would need a Rosberg 2016 season to beat Hamilton.

Not necessarily. Without the Bahrain puncture he'd be just 2 points back. He's very much in this championship fight.

Yeah, don't discount the equally real possibility of a Hamilton 2011 season giving Bottas his shot at the title.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:20 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?

Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

He was for a while, yes

It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:23 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Maybe because of rumours of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi?

You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.

Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one

If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one


Maybe if Bottas keeps his form up Hamilton will decide the talents of Marcus Ericsson are the best kept secret in F1 history. :lol:

you've lost me?


Just making a joke saying that if Bottas keeps performing, Lewis will be trying to convince Toto Ericsson is the perfect driver for Mercedes.

ah, missed that! :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I know you was only joking but he wouldn't be looking to get Bottas replaced, anyway it's only hypothetical I think Bottas would need a Rosberg 2016 season to beat Hamilton.


Not necessarily. Without the Baku puncture he'd be just 2 points back. He's very much in this championship fight.

Over a season, the season is long.

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2013: 5th Place
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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I know you was only joking but he wouldn't be looking to get Bottas replaced, anyway it's only hypothetical I think Bottas would need a Rosberg 2016 season to beat Hamilton.

Not necessarily. Without the Bahrain puncture he'd be just 2 points back. He's very much in this championship fight.

Yeah, don't discount the equally real possibility of a Hamilton 2011 season giving Bottas his shot at the title.

I don't see Hamilton crashing into other cars this season, has he not just extended the record for successive points finishers?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Last edited by pokerman on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?

Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

He was for a while, yes

It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight

Has he changed his opinion?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
You mean like Hamilton has stated that he feels Bottas should be kept at Mercedes?


In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.

Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one

If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense

Hamilton wouldn't be able to keep an under performing driver at Mercedes much like he couldn't keep Heikki at McLaren, he got on well with him as well.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

In fairness to Hamilton, Bottas is basically matching him this season. If he wanted a lackey team mate he'd be trying to get someone else in. It's not quite the same as the Vettel/Kimi situation. Kimi doesn't even try.

Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one

If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense

Hamilton wouldn't be able to keep an under performing driver at Mercedes much like he couldn't keep Heikki at McLaren, he got on well with him as well.

you know for a fact that Lewis can't do this at Mercedes whereas Vettel can do it at Ferrari? Where do you get your information?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Is Bottas under performing like Kimi?

He was for a while, yes

It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight

Has he changed his opinion?

I don't know. Has he said anything? And how is that relevant?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Remember guys. A driver wants a team mate who will take as many points as possible from the opposition.
Points from the opposition are as good as points for you.

If the driver finishes first, he wants his team mate (shall we call them 'Mate' :lol: ) to finish second so the best the opposition can do is get 3rd.

If they fail to win, or even finish, every step up the leader board the team mate takes is points denied the opposition.

They do not want a dummy here, they want drivers capable of winning. OK, they may prefer one slightly less capable than themselves, but not a dud.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:04 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yeah, don't discount the equally real possibility of a Hamilton 2011 season giving Bottas his shot at the title.

I don't see Hamilton crashing into other cars this season, has he not just extended the record for successive points finishers?

I meant generically Hamilton throws it away instead of reliability costing him the title, not a specific re-enactment of 2011.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:24 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bottas has improved this season, agreed (or Hamilton has under-performed). But when Hamilton was advocating keeping Bottas the latter wasn't performing that well. It's the same.

Now I'm not criticising Hamilton for wanting to keep a team mate he knows he's got beat, but the situation is pretty similar to the Vettel/Kimi one

If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense

Hamilton wouldn't be able to keep an under performing driver at Mercedes much like he couldn't keep Heikki at McLaren, he got on well with him as well.

you know for a fact that Lewis can't do this at Mercedes whereas Vettel can do it at Ferrari? Where do you get your information?

I don't believe that Mercedes would retain an under performing driver like Kimi especially with Ocon waiting in the wings, I wouldn't say Bottas is under performing at the moment so it becomes somewhat mute.

Meanwhile Kimi has been under performing at Ferrari for the last 5 years and every year stories appear of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep him, it is what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:25 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
He was for a while, yes

It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight

Has he changed his opinion?

I don't know. Has he said anything? And how is that relevant?

Well all along I've been talking about this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:27 am 
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moby wrote:
Remember guys. A driver wants a team mate who will take as many points as possible from the opposition.
Points from the opposition are as good as points for you.

If the driver finishes first, he wants his team mate (shall we call them 'Mate' :lol: ) to finish second so the best the opposition can do is get 3rd.

If they fail to win, or even finish, every step up the leader board the team mate takes is points denied the opposition.

They do not want a dummy here, they want drivers capable of winning. OK, they may prefer one slightly less capable than themselves, but not a dud.

Well that's not happening at Ferrari.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:29 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yeah, don't discount the equally real possibility of a Hamilton 2011 season giving Bottas his shot at the title.

I don't see Hamilton crashing into other cars this season, has he not just extended the record for successive points finishers?

I meant generically Hamilton throws it away instead of reliability costing him the title, not a specific re-enactment of 2011.

You'd have to go back to 2007 for what you might consider a thrown away title, the 2011 title was never on the cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:55 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I meant generically Hamilton throws it away instead of reliability costing him the title, not a specific re-enactment of 2011.

You'd have to go back to 2007 for what you might consider a thrown away title, the 2011 title was never on the cards.

That's just circumstance, though, unless you believe he wouldn't have made those mistakes with a better car.

But fine: if you want me to re-state it, I can. Bottas doesn't need reliability to intervene to give him a shot at the title; all he needs is for Hamilton to take himself out of the picture through sub-optimal driving. That leaves yearly comparisons out of it entirely.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:05 am 
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moby wrote:
Remember guys. A driver wants a team mate who will take as many points as possible from the opposition.
Points from the opposition are as good as points for you.

If the driver finishes first, he wants his team mate (shall we call them 'Mate' :lol: ) to finish second so the best the opposition can do is get 3rd.

If they fail to win, or even finish, every step up the leader board the team mate takes is points denied the opposition.

They do not want a dummy here, they want drivers capable of winning. OK, they may prefer one slightly less capable than themselves, but not a dud.

Except when in a dominant car and the opposition is your teammate. :-P

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:39 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was his first season at Mercedes, he seems to be doing alright now?

It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight

Has he changed his opinion?

I don't know. Has he said anything? And how is that relevant?

Well all along I've been talking about this year.

well that's not quite true, is it? You stated that Vettel might be afraid of who he might have as a team mate, citing him lobbying to keep Kimi as a reason. But last year Hamilton was doing the same with Bottas and Bottas wasn't exactly doing a great job. Is it only fear when it happens with Vettel? Or is it just possible that you see what you want to see, not what's actually there?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:45 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
If Bottas was too under perform greatly this season he would be gone, it's nothing like the Kimi situation.

you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense

Hamilton wouldn't be able to keep an under performing driver at Mercedes much like he couldn't keep Heikki at McLaren, he got on well with him as well.

you know for a fact that Lewis can't do this at Mercedes whereas Vettel can do it at Ferrari? Where do you get your information?

I don't believe that Mercedes would retain an under performing driver like Kimi especially with Ocon waiting in the wings, I wouldn't say Bottas is under performing at the moment so it becomes somewhat mute.

Meanwhile Kimi has been under performing at Ferrari for the last 5 years and every year stories appear of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep him, it is what it is.

what stories canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi? The ones where he says he wouldn't mind keeping Kimi as a team mate? How does that tie in with the ones where he says he wouldn't mind having Ricciardo as a team mate? Does that mean he's lobbying for Ricciardo to join? Or is it only lobbying when it suits?

I agree that Kimi is under-performing, although this year I'd say he's been better than before. But you're joining dots where there aren't any by saying that it's Vettel's influence keeping him there, while simultaneously claiming that Hamilton doesn't have the same level of influence at Mercedes. Facts for you are just inconveniences, aren't they?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I meant generically Hamilton throws it away instead of reliability costing him the title, not a specific re-enactment of 2011.

You'd have to go back to 2007 for what you might consider a thrown away title, the 2011 title was never on the cards.

That's just circumstance, though, unless you believe he wouldn't have made those mistakes with a better car.

But fine: if you want me to re-state it, I can. Bottas doesn't need reliability to intervene to give him a shot at the title; all he needs is for Hamilton to take himself out of the picture through sub-optimal driving. That leaves yearly comparisons out of it entirely.

Vettel ran away with the 2011 title in the best car, Hamilton in desperation approached Red Bull during the Canadian GP in full view of everyone asking to drive for Red Bull, how does that relate to what we have now, that is the only season he got out performed by a teammate or took himself out of the picture as you put it.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's not relevant to the point about Hamilton wanting to keep him when he wasn't setting the world alight

Has he changed his opinion?

I don't know. Has he said anything? And how is that relevant?

Well all along I've been talking about this year.

well that's not quite true, is it? You stated that Vettel might be afraid of who he might have as a team mate, citing him lobbying to keep Kimi as a reason. But last year Hamilton was doing the same with Bottas and Bottas wasn't exactly doing a great job. Is it only fear when it happens with Vettel? Or is it just possible that you see what you want to see, not what's actually there?

No with Vettel I heard that recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you're moving the goalposts. Vettel has supported Kimi staying in a similar fashion to Hamilton supporting Bottas staying. Both have been happy to maintain the status quo with a driver they are better than. Which makes perfect sense

Hamilton wouldn't be able to keep an under performing driver at Mercedes much like he couldn't keep Heikki at McLaren, he got on well with him as well.

you know for a fact that Lewis can't do this at Mercedes whereas Vettel can do it at Ferrari? Where do you get your information?

I don't believe that Mercedes would retain an under performing driver like Kimi especially with Ocon waiting in the wings, I wouldn't say Bottas is under performing at the moment so it becomes somewhat mute.

Meanwhile Kimi has been under performing at Ferrari for the last 5 years and every year stories appear of Vettel canvassing Ferrari to keep him, it is what it is.

what stories canvassing Ferrari to keep Kimi? The ones where he says he wouldn't mind keeping Kimi as a team mate? How does that tie in with the ones where he says he wouldn't mind having Ricciardo as a team mate? Does that mean he's lobbying for Ricciardo to join? Or is it only lobbying when it suits?

I agree that Kimi is under-performing, although this year I'd say he's been better than before. But you're joining dots where there aren't any by saying that it's Vettel's influence keeping him there, while simultaneously claiming that Hamilton doesn't have the same level of influence at Mercedes. Facts for you are just inconveniences, aren't they?

Does it really matter what I bring forward it's just dismissed as paddock rumour like Marchionne threatening to sign someone like Ricciardo after Baku last year if Vettel can't keep calm and be the driver to lead the team, no it's just coincidence that Ferrari sign an under performing driver season after season, and then make Bottas who has only had one season with Mercedes as a like for like comparison with Kimi.

So far this season do you see Bottas as being in the same situation as Kimi and if Bottas gets retained that would because of the influence of Hamilton, in fact if Bottas didn't get retained that would be because he was too competitive for Hamilton, that has been mooted although jokingly so.

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