planetf1.com

It’d be more surprising if they didn’t, tbh

He finally did it! A win from deep in the pack. he's had some great charges from the back in his career. 17th to 3rd in Brazil 2009, 22nd to 3rd in Hungary 2014, 20th to 3rd in Germany 2014, etc. He finally pulled off a win from way back! Long overdue and what a performance! That was fun to watch.

It was unbelievable, what a drive.

Yes I was surprised to hear that before this race he had never won a race from further back than 6th. Unless I misheard.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)

You heard it correctly... everything had to fall into place for this feat to happen but amazing drive none the less

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Likely because the majority of his wins were in the Mercedes dominant period - I bet he has plenty of second place finishes from starting way down the grid, but with another Mercedes near the front he would stand no chance of a win unless there was a mechanical failure or similar for his team mate.

The Mercedes dominant period was from 2014-2016. During that time he won 31 races. He has 66 wins overall so your statement is not accurate. It's just not easy to win from that far back. As I said above, he has had podium finishes from the back of the grid but this was the first win from that far back. Vettel has never won from behind the second row of the grid. In fact, of today's drivers, only Alonso and Raikkonen have won races from as far back as Hamilton today and Alonso's was under VERY dubious circumstances back in 2008 in Singapore.

Careful, you're using facts to hush a Lewis critic. Nearly all driver wins come from the front bar special circumstances. I could list those circumstances but I'd be here all day.

Lewis was also winning in a Mclaren when RBR were dominating (so was Button in the other Mclaren). At a time when Ferrari were also competing with Fernando getting some results.

Short term memory fans. People also forget that Lewis had a championship under his belt and competed with another for Mclaren in his first two seasons as an F1 driver. I never did understand why people insist on conveniently forgetting about past achievements when they still achieve....

That's a bit like saying Hawking was a reasonably intelligent chap?

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...and even winning from sixth is three places farther back than his main rival Sebastian has ever won from. Sebastian has always had to start from no further back than third to take the win.

Ayrton Senna never won from farther back than 5th.

Michael Schumacher won once from 16th, once from 7th, and several times from 6th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... s_Hamilton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... ian_Vettel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... rton_Senna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... Schumacher

It’s certaily way more likely to win from far back these days because of grid penalties and SC’s. The SC was hardly used pre 1994.

Hamilton has 31/66 wins in dominant cars.

This compares to Schumacher 41/91 taking 94,01,02 and 04 as dominant cars. 1994 is statistically his most dominant.

No I have to disagree with you there. Reliability in the old days made it a lot more likely. It wasn't uncommon to have 10+ cars not even finish the race 30 years ago. There was also much larger performance deltas if you go back in time. Nowadays the whole field is within 3 seconds of each other in pace. The odds of a fast car starting from the back are higher today but the odds of pulling off the win are quite a bit lower.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong, I am definitely a Hamilton fan just not a blinkered one. It surprises me that most of his wins were not in the dominant period but I guess 2017 and 2018 (so far) could be called 'half dominant' as car wise there's only really two teams that are going to win races regularly. Since the start of 2014 there has always been another driver fast enough to stop any chance of a win from low down the field barring incidents like yesterday's. Lady luck certainly shone down on him in Germany but that takes nothing away from his great recovery drive, tyre preservation and unquestionable damp/wet weather feel for the car.

As I said on an earlier post, I'd have loved to have seen the two of them fight it out on a damp track - I believe that would have silenced the haters, even if just for an hour or so. Seb is a great driver, but it's only the car that's kept him in the title fight this year. Put Lewis in the Ferrari and Seb in the Mercedes and Lewis would be way ahead by now.

The qualifying is the big thing.

To my knowledge, Michael Schumacher started one race between 1991-2002 outside the top 5-6. Spa where he started in P16 due to rain. Senna, aside from the toleman years, the same. He started 1 race out of position. USA 1990 due to rain again (but he still started 5th). If your car broke down in qualifying, you jumped into the spare car... So Schumacher over 1991-2002 had 1 chance to win from low back and Senna never had a single shot in his entire career.

For comparison. Hamilton in the last few years alone has started-
Germany 18 - 14th
Brazil 17 - 20th?
Spa 16 - 20th?
Russia 16 - 10th
China 16 - 10th
Germany 14 - 20th
Hungary 14 - pit lane
Austria 14 - 9th?
Silverstone 14 - 10th?

Not only, did Hamilton get more chances to start from much further back but the races he raced in had SC to bring him back into play. Its clearly much more likely to win from further back in this era because firstly in the old era there is no reason you would ever qualify low down except for freak rain shower. If you broke down in qualifying or crashed, you could go back and use the spare car. If you got caught out in the rain on one day, then you had the other day where it might be dry as qualifying was over 2 days. Also no SC to bring you back into play.

2003 on wards when 1 lap qualifying came into play it became a lot more likely to win from the back. 1 error in your single lap and you could be starting way down in a dominant car.

Schumacher started a few races outside the top 5 in 97 and another in 98 but I agree with your general point.

That's actually a good point. The number of opportunities is significantly greater now. I think the safety car factor is more than negated by the increased dirty air factor and dramatically improved reliability but the qualifying point is definitely valid.

You are right, P7 in Spain and finished P4, P9 in Monza to finish P6 and P9 in Austria to finish P6. I forgot the Ferrari suffered in a few races that year. His car qualified basically in the correct "speed order" on those occasions though. Where as today the cars can be way out of speed order.

But DRS has also made getting through traffic a lot easier. 2003-2010 was harder to win from the back than now. Kimi often got stuck behind cars 2 seconds a lap slower in 2005.

2011-2017 is the most likely period once we had DRS. In fact 2014 on wards it probably the absolute most likely period due to the big increase in grid penalties resulting in the best car starting way down on probably 10 occasions since 2014. Its only a matter of time before somebody wins a race from the pit lane.

This is an interesting list.


redditmedia.com

Nice one Johnson, very interesting, thank you

Alonso also won from 12th in Valencia

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FA#14

Is that as far as far back as 14th?

Who else has won from that far back since Hamilton entered F1? Kimi´s one was way back in 2005 unless he repeated it afterwards?

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)

Why is 14th significant? The original post was celebrating "a win from deep in the pack". 12th is deep in the pack. And it was on a street circuit no less

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I rely on Prost



FA#14

I rate Alonso’s drive at Valencia 2012 quite a bit higher than Hamilton’s drive in Hockenheim. Alonso had to make some spectacular overtakes on a street circuit against cars who actually fought him hard (Grosjean, Webber, Schumacher). Hamilton made some very simple overtakes on cars who didn’t even bother fighting him.

Hamilton’s drive in Hockenheim was very good, but Alonso’s drive at Valencia 2012 was on another level. His racecraft was unreal that race.

To this day, I still maintain that Alonso in his prime (2012) has the best wheel-to-wheel racecraft out of any driver I have ever seen.

If we are going to go on about 'best' drives for cars well out of position. Special mention to Jenson Button.

He had been in every place, back of the grid, pitted endlessly, over took, penalties (was it one or two?), flat tyre. What looked like finishing in last p-lace and maybe with a bit of luck 1 point.

Ended up winning the race.

BUT this thread is about Lewis Hamilton. FYI - In his rookie year gave Fernando Alonso a double world champion with vast amount of experience a very good run for his money. Something that didn't just shock us, the pundits but also Alonso - I too rate him as the most complete driver on the grid. I wouldn't necessarily say he was the best at one thing.

This guy just doesn't have brake now he attacked Sky Sport why they did not praise him enough. He forgives them

From PF-1:

The reigning World Champion took to Instagram to share his opinion: “I never get to watch the races but just got home and watching Sky.

“I find it amusing listening to ex-drivers commentating, not a single one of them could find a good word to say.

“Whatever the reason is, it’s OK I forgive you.

“Positivity and love wins always no matter what words you use to try and undermine me, I started 14th today and finished 1st.

“God is good all the time.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton- ... mentators/

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The only caveat I would give against Button is that he needed 2 SC's to get him back into contention, I'm not sure if one of them got him back onto the lead lap?

Hamilton after the Vettel crash actually got impeded by the SC.

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2014: Champion
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2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

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Podiums: (6)

Given what's been said about Hamilton blocking Rosberg's podium interviews I wonder if this relates more to Rosberg being part of the Sky team?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Rosberg has been praising Hamilton to be fair. It does not compute...

I know but if it's all true it seems that Hamilton can't forgive Rosberg for past indiscretions, remember there was talk of him quitting Mercedes on 2 separate occasions because of Rosberg.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

Yeah, sad if true. He is the No1 in a top team and has everything he ever wanted now, a great contract, great team mate, great team. No reason to be harbouring these feelings for Rosberg when he is praising love all around lately. It just sounds like a confused individual, the complete opposite to how commanding he is in a car.

Yeah he should be concentrating on the WDC and not be concerned about what Rosberg is doing but I guess some wounds dig deep?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place
2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)

If it's true that they didn't praise him enough, then what he said is warranted.

Just no need to say anything though. Social media really is a curse for some personality types. We all see this with our friends and associates but when you are famous you can have a thought and 30 seconds later it can be broadcast to millions, any time of day, any day.

It days past he would have watched it, got annoyed. Slept on it and forgot about it and certainly not made it public knowledge.

No, you do not demand respect/recognition. It is absurd to suggest that he doesn't get praise enough. Just after his fantastic demonstration, when every website in the world had only good things to say about his drive.

Let's see, Brundle said recently that Hamilton certainly deserves the £40m a year. He indeed criticised him earlier in the year, but ate his words and praised him after the French GP, repeatedly.
Hill has repeatedly praised Hamilton and the only negative thing I can think of recently is when he mentioned that Lewis may think of leaving Mercedes.
Rosberg had this to say after the race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B942XHEvBN0. "Never right off Lewis, he always comes back".

What else does he want them to say?

Then it is the logistics; how would you measure how much praise is enough praise? Praisometer? A positive article every 5 hours?

I've never seen anything good come from posting your thoughts on social media...Always been a fan of Lewis on the race track but his off track life has never been my cup of tea. He's a product of the times though so I can't be too harsh about it.

However, I think Lewis has a bit of a point. The commentary lacks the verve and vigour for the moment and the appreciation of a rarer performance as it's unfolding.

In their defence the tone was set early when the Formula 1B cars just waved him through, it clearly really annoyed them. Not Lewis's problem obviously but if you're a commentator then it's hard to go overboard about getting back to 5th in those circumstances. There were literally no passes after that to get the lead for them to get their teeth into either and get excited about. The hardest man to pass (Max) crucially boxed, Seb crashed and the other two boxed as well.

They rightly praised his pace on the US in the tricky conditions and his tyre management on the soft that set it all up, those were the class bits and I think they praised them more than enough. And they didn't make as big of a deal of the penalty and the team order as they could've done during or afterwards, they did quite the opposite and explained the common sense reasoning behind it. They even cut it (The TO) out of their highlight package that ran every hour on SSN on Monday but left in Lewis talking about fending off cars with fresher tyres after the SC so I think Sky did plenty to big up the win imo. They wouldn't be that kind to anyone else.

But I agree with poker, I think this is likely Nico related with the ex driver remark.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I know about post Spain but what was the other poker?

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I worry about this guy's mental state. Last two races he's been strange, and now he's saying stupid fairy cakes. Amazing driver, but a weirdo outside the car. Hope it doesn't affect his on track performance. He's been mentally off lately. Needs to pick it up.