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What does Ferrari do with #2?
Poll ended at Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:58 pm
Keep Raikkonen for 2019 56%  56%  [ 40 ]
Hire LeClerc and discard Raikkonen 44%  44%  [ 32 ]
Total votes : 72
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:17 pm 
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yeah I'd say at the moment Kimi's doing enough to keep his seat. He's 3rd in the WDC and on the podium more often than not. Leclerc certainly has potential but the risk factor is higher and the potential reward not that great. So I'd say JV is on the money here


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:18 pm 
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There have been rumors that Ferrari has been offering a two year extension and Kimi has agreed. I have no idea about the credibility of the source but it's at least plausible I think.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2264 ... extension/

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:02 pm 
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froze wrote:
There have been rumors that Ferrari has been offering a two year extension and Kimi has agreed. I have no idea about the credibility of the source but it's at least plausible I think.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2264 ... extension/

I understand Kimi getting another year's extension but not 2, that's good for Vettel but not so much for Leclerc, in response I expect Bottas to be retained for 2020.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:23 pm 
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They should pick Leclerc. In my view Kimi is only doing better this year because Ferrari have the best car now, not because he's suddenly found his form again after 4 years of mediocrity. Leclerc has had a couple of dodgy races recently but he's a tremendous prospect and Ferrari need to snap him up or risk losing him.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
yeah I'd say at the moment Kimi's doing enough to keep his seat. He's 3rd in the WDC and on the podium more often than not. Leclerc certainly has potential but the risk factor is higher and the potential reward not that great. So I'd say JV is on the money here


This prompted me to look at results this season, and Raikkonen has more podiums than Vettel, 8-7. This includes being on the podium for the last five races. The difference being that four of Vettel's have been wins and Kimi having an extra DNF.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Keep Raikkonen, and I say that as a Leclerc fan.

The reasons? Well firstly, Kimi is driving better than he was on the previous occasions when he was given an extension. Secondly, he and Vettel have a very good relationship and it's seems likely that Seb will be happier if he's still there in 2019. Thirdly, and linked into the first point, if Kimi was performing poorly then I'd understand taking the risk and promoting Leclerc. But he's not, so is it a risk Ferrari need to bother taking? Charles is a phenomenal talent but the fact is that he's still less than a dozen races into his F1 career, and an extra season at Sauber or Haas isn't going to do his development any harm. But throwing him in at the deep end at Ferrari? Particularly when they don't have to? It just seems like an unnecessary move.

Don't get me wrong, I think he'd handle it from a mental point of view. He seems to have a pretty mature head on his shoulders, and I always look back at what he did in Baku last year (given the circumstances) as a strong sign that he could cope with the immense pressure he'd be under if he was promoted. But again, why take that risk when Vettel/Raikkonen is working as well as it has?

Plus I'd miss the hell out of Kimi's team radio :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:57 pm 
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A bit too early for Leclrec. As much as I think Raikkonen is passed it, it'd make sense to keep him around next year so Leclerc can mature.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:18 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
yeah I'd say at the moment Kimi's doing enough to keep his seat. He's 3rd in the WDC and on the podium more often than not. Leclerc certainly has potential but the risk factor is higher and the potential reward not that great. So I'd say JV is on the money here


This prompted me to look at results this season, and Raikkonen has more podiums than Vettel, 8-7. This includes being on the podium for the last five races. The difference being that four of Vettel's have been wins and Kimi having an extra DNF.


Kimi has had 2 mechanical dnfs while Vettel was his own mistake, funnily enough without those he wouldn't be that far behind. This is even with Kimi having his strategy sacrificed a number of times.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:38 pm 
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As I think LeClerc is the second coming of Jim Clark, hell yeah get him into the Ferrari next year and watch him put manners on Vettel. For once Ferrari don't be timid with your driver choices, let Kimi return to rallying where he will have as much fun.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:46 pm 
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I think Kimi's doing OK. I wouldn't go further than that. He's driven probably the fastest car of the year and at no point has looked like winning a race.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Räikkönen is driving the best or co-best car for one-and-a-half seasons now and
- has scored no victory (as the only driver of the top three teams!!!)
- has almost never looked on par with his teammate or ahead,
- has rarely ever taken points of Ferrari's wdc and wcc competitors.

It is a travesty that he is even in contention for a seat in the best team on the grid. Half of the grid would do better than him.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:50 pm 
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I don't think Kimi's been driving perfectly by any means, but I think some of you are being a bit harsh and forgetting that his strategy has been compromised on more than one occasion by Ferrari. Despite that he's not all that far behind his team mate even with one more retirement. I'd say he's probably the weakest of the four drivers, but he's certainly looked more on the pace relative to his team mate than at any point previously. Purely on performance this year I'd say dropping him isn't the slam dunk some of you are making it out to be


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:33 pm 
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I've been annoyed by the second Ferrari driver since 2011, when Massa really started to go backwards and after that Kimi. It's time to finally get two exciting drivers in that team. Surely that can't be too much to ask. You guys are right, Kimi isn't having a bad season or anything, but he won't be winning a championship ever again. He might not even win a race ever again. It wouldn't even be weird if he would never score a pole position ever again. Do I want someone like that in one of the top teams? No, of course not, next.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:53 am 
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Leclerc please. But it won't happen this time

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:23 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I've been annoyed by the second Ferrari driver since 2011, when Massa really started to go backwards and after that Kimi. It's time to finally get two exciting drivers in that team. Surely that can't be too much to ask. You guys are right, Kimi isn't having a bad season or anything, but he won't be winning a championship ever again. He might not even win a race ever again. It wouldn't even be weird if he would never score a pole position ever again. Do I want someone like that in one of the top teams? No, of course not, next.


Anyone in that 2nd seat won't be winning a title. Ferrari's probably the most prominent team to echo no.1 & no.2 driver hierarchy.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:20 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:35 am 
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I'd love to see Leclerc in the car, but I don't see it happening. As I said a month ago and was derided on here, I still expect Leclerc to go to Haas.

It'd be great for him to to Ferrari and defeat Vettel though. The drama..

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:49 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
I've been annoyed by the second Ferrari driver since 2011, when Massa really started to go backwards and after that Kimi. It's time to finally get two exciting drivers in that team. Surely that can't be too much to ask. You guys are right, Kimi isn't having a bad season or anything, but he won't be winning a championship ever again. He might not even win a race ever again. It wouldn't even be weird if he would never score a pole position ever again. Do I want someone like that in one of the top teams? No, of course not, next.


Anyone in that 2nd seat won't be winning a title. Ferrari's probably the most prominent team to echo no.1 & no.2 driver hierarchy.

only when pne driver has proven to be significantly better than the other


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:13 am 
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They know exactly what they have with Kimi. If he does what is needed, why take a leap of faith with an untested and unknown element?

If they are not happy with Kimi, they would not need to ponder the decision.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am 
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Leclerc only drove 12 races so far. It's too early, he can be demoralized if under pressure keeps under-delivering or crashing.

Kimi.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:46 am 
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Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


I suppose Mercedes needs to get Russell in the car ASAP as he was significantly faster than Hamilton or Bottas and Ferrari need to get Giovinazzi in the Ferrari ASAP, the kind of rubbish one reads on the internet.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


If Vettel isn't that fast and Ferrari is arguably faster than Merc, then that would mean that in true form the Ferrari is a lot faster than the Merc (I am not sure if I'm explaining this right!!!). And I seriously doubt they have found that much pace over last season. Not impossible, but I seriously doubt it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?


Then Seb sure has a lot of other people fooled as well... Fellow drivers, team principles, others in the paddocks, experienced media.sorts, knowledgeable fans, et al.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
I've been annoyed by the second Ferrari driver since 2011, when Massa really started to go backwards and after that Kimi. It's time to finally get two exciting drivers in that team. Surely that can't be too much to ask. You guys are right, Kimi isn't having a bad season or anything, but he won't be winning a championship ever again. He might not even win a race ever again. It wouldn't even be weird if he would never score a pole position ever again. Do I want someone like that in one of the top teams? No, of course not, next.


Anyone in that 2nd seat won't be winning a title. Ferrari's probably the most prominent team to echo no.1 & no.2 driver hierarchy.

only when pne driver has proven to be significantly better than the other

Yes but however you are endorsing the #1 and #2 set up when you continue to employ the same drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


I suppose Mercedes needs to get Russell in the car ASAP as he was significantly faster than Hamilton or Bottas and Ferrari need to get Giovinazzi in the Ferrari ASAP, the kind of rubbish one reads on the internet.


No that would be stupid.

LeClerc has proven he is quick in F1.
Other GP2 winners like Vandoorne and Palmer have so far failed in stepping up to F1.
LeClerc is comprehensively beating Ericsson that was only just beaten by a highly regarded rookie in Pascal W.

My point was that Dan beat Vettel and Max is quicker than Dan in one lap pace.
It shows that Vettel is definitely not the quickest on the grid.
I would go as far as to say that he is only better than Webber in by far the best car in the grid = 4 x WDC.
Don’t get me wrong Vettel is very good, I just suspect that there are possibly 5 or more drivers on the grid that are better.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Randine wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


I suppose Mercedes needs to get Russell in the car ASAP as he was significantly faster than Hamilton or Bottas and Ferrari need to get Giovinazzi in the Ferrari ASAP, the kind of rubbish one reads on the internet.


No that would be stupid.

LeClerc has proven he is quick in F1.
Other GP2 winners like Vandoorne and have so far failed in stepping up to F1.
LeClerc is comprehensively beating Ericsson that was only just beaten by a highly regarded rookie in Pascal W.

My point was that Dan beat Vettel and Max is quicker than Dan in one lap pace.
It shows that Vettel is definitely not the quickest on the grid.
I would go as far as to say that he is only better than Webber in by far the best car in the grid = 4 x WDC.
Don’t get me wrong Vettel is very good, I just suspect that there are possibly 5 or more drivers on the grid that are better.

It's certainly a possibility. I think the point being made was that testing is not a reliable indicator of ultimate pace.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?


Then Seb sure has a lot of other people fooled as well... Fellow drivers, team principles, others in the paddocks, experienced media.sorts, knowledgeable fans, et al.


Yes he does.
However I believe he will never win another WDC

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


If Vettel isn't that fast and Ferrari is arguably faster than Merc, then that would mean that in true form the Ferrari is a lot faster than the Merc (I am not sure if I'm explaining this right!!!). And I seriously doubt they have found that much pace over last season. Not impossible, but I seriously doubt it.


That is my take on it.
Ferrari have the fastest car on the grid by a wide margin and are held back by 2 drivers that could be much better.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Randine wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


I suppose Mercedes needs to get Russell in the car ASAP as he was significantly faster than Hamilton or Bottas and Ferrari need to get Giovinazzi in the Ferrari ASAP, the kind of rubbish one reads on the internet.


No that would be stupid.

LeClerc has proven he is quick in F1.
Other GP2 winners like Vandoorne and have so far failed in stepping up to F1.
LeClerc is comprehensively beating Ericsson that was only just beaten by a highly regarded rookie in Pascal W.

My point was that Dan beat Vettel and Max is quicker than Dan in one lap pace.
It shows that Vettel is definitely not the quickest on the grid.
I would go as far as to say that he is only better than Webber in by far the best car in the grid = 4 x WDC.
Don’t get me wrong Vettel is very good, I just suspect that there are possibly 5 or more drivers on the grid that are better.

It's certainly a possibility. I think the point being made was that testing is not a reliable indicator of ultimate pace.


That is normally true.
However with Dan’s 2013 Silverstone test (young driver test) is was just after the Silverstone race and they compared Dan’s times to Seb’s race weekend where he was going flat out.
Prior to the test they were seriously considering Kimi for the Red Bull seat.

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I support: Ricciardo
I also like: Perez, Hulk, Sainz, Button and Alonso
I respect: Ham, Vettel and Max


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Randine wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Randine wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Randine wrote:

How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


I suppose Mercedes needs to get Russell in the car ASAP as he was significantly faster than Hamilton or Bottas and Ferrari need to get Giovinazzi in the Ferrari ASAP, the kind of rubbish one reads on the internet.


No that would be stupid.

LeClerc has proven he is quick in F1.
Other GP2 winners like Vandoorne and have so far failed in stepping up to F1.
LeClerc is comprehensively beating Ericsson that was only just beaten by a highly regarded rookie in Pascal W.

My point was that Dan beat Vettel and Max is quicker than Dan in one lap pace.
It shows that Vettel is definitely not the quickest on the grid.
I would go as far as to say that he is only better than Webber in by far the best car in the grid = 4 x WDC.
Don’t get me wrong Vettel is very good, I just suspect that there are possibly 5 or more drivers on the grid that are better.

It's certainly a possibility. I think the point being made was that testing is not a reliable indicator of ultimate pace.


That is normally true.
However with Dan’s 2013 Silverstone test (young driver test) is was just after the Silverstone race and they compared Dan’s times to Seb’s race weekend where he was going flat out.
Prior to the test they were seriously considering Kimi for the Red Bull seat.

Yes I remember. It's also true that a number of young drivers beat the regular drivers' times, IIRC. The article was discussed extensively at the time exactly because of this. The article was a bit sensationalist because different days bring different conditions and it's pretty much impossible to make very accurate comparisons.

Not saying he couldn't have been quicker, mind. Just that testing times aren't a reliable barometer.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Randine wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Raikkonen has done well this year. Fast, consistent and reliable, and just the compliant sort that Ferrari likes.

LeClerc will be fine eventually, but is too young to jump to the Scuderia, as Ferrari does NOT develop drivers.

Jacques Villeneuve echos my opinion precisely... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/243 ... -raikkonen


How about this for a thought.
What if Vettel isn’t that quick?
Dan had his measure in 2014.
So maybe Kimi is not as good as you think he is.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see LeClerc beat Vettel if he was given the opportunity.

(What secured Dan to move to Red Bull was a test at Silverstone in 2013 where he was quicker than Vettel on one of his first shots in the car. That was Vettel’s most dominant WDC year too

“In a car of comparative specification - same fuel load, tyres, etc - and in similar conditions (albeit on a different day), Ricciardo was 0.2 seconds faster than Vettel at that test.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/23960315 )

Kimi should go to McLaren with Sainz!


If Vettel isn't that fast and Ferrari is arguably faster than Merc, then that would mean that in true form the Ferrari is a lot faster than the Merc (I am not sure if I'm explaining this right!!!). And I seriously doubt they have found that much pace over last season. Not impossible, but I seriously doubt it.


That is my take on it.
Ferrari have the fastest car on the grid by a wide margin and are held back by 2 drivers that could be much better.


Fair enough, it may certainly hold some truth. If we use Kimi as the common denominator though, how much is the difference between Alonso-Vettel? I do not think that Vettel is doing such a bad job actually


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm 
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So I've just gone back over the timings for both the race and testing at Silverstone in 2013 and it shows the following:

DR drove a 1:33.187, which was indeed faster than Vettel's race 1:35.018. However, the following puts a bit of context on it:

Vettel set the fastest lap in the test, a 1:32.894. So if he was going flat out in the race, conditions in the test must have been different. Plus he was faster than Ric.
Webber set the fastest race lap at 1:33.4, and he's not normally over a second quicker than Vettel
David Rigon (yes, him) posted a 1:33.592, faster than Alonso's effort of 1:34.090 in the race
Oliver Turvey set a 1:33.864 in the McLaren, while Perez' best race effort was a 1:36.131 - If we take the usual Perez vs Button vs Hamilton comparison route that would make Turvey possibly the fastest driver ever to sit in an F1 car.
Finally, to hammer the point home, Felipe Massa set a 1:33.624, which was faster than both Alonso's and his own race effort, and not by a small amount, either.

In short, I think we can take said article with a pinch of salt. Testing times aren't representative


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Kimi at the moment is driving better than he has in last 4 years. His form in recent races has been good but he is not going to win you championships if Vettel for some reason has bad run for one reason or another.
They can keep him for another year or two if they want. At the beginning of this year or even 2 months back, I would have said ditch the kimi.
At the same time they should not lose LeClerc to anyone else. He is one of the best talents they have on their payroll.

It wont hurt to get LeClerc in the Ferrari seat next year. Neither would it be bad idea to have him do one more year at Sauber. So its a toss up. Wont be a bad idea either way.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
I'd love to see Leclerc in the car, but I don't see it happening. As I said a month ago and was derided on here, I still expect Leclerc to go to Haas.

It'd be great for him to to Ferrari and defeat Vettel though. The drama..

Strange that you'd get derided for that sensible suggestion. I think Leclerc to Haas would be of benefit to both sides

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Quite simply, who better to keep Alfa Romeo in the public's eye than Leclerc? He has caught my attention, and I'm not alone. Why throw that PR-value away? What good would this year have been if you don't follow it up? By now Leclerc is an established driver in the team, and while there's little doubt he would do well at Ferrari, both teams can do with the stability keeping their drivers would bring.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Quite simply, who better to keep Alfa Romeo in the public's eye than Leclerc? He has caught my attention, and I'm not alone. Why throw that PR-value away? What good would this year have been if you don't follow it up? By now Leclerc is an established driver in the team, and while there's little doubt he would do well at Ferrari, both teams can do with the stability keeping their drivers would bring.

Weird, I thought Leclerc would have liked being a future Ferrari driver learning his trade at the high end of the midfield, rather than an Alfa Romeo brand ambassador driving out of his skin for the occasional point

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:40 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Quite simply, who better to keep Alfa Romeo in the public's eye than Leclerc? He has caught my attention, and I'm not alone. Why throw that PR-value away? What good would this year have been if you don't follow it up? By now Leclerc is an established driver in the team, and while there's little doubt he would do well at Ferrari, both teams can do with the stability keeping their drivers would bring.

Weird, I thought Leclerc would have liked being a future Ferrari driver learning his trade at the high end of the midfield, rather than an Alfa Romeo brand ambassador driving out of his skin for the occasional point

Actually I think it's a fair point. If Ferrari aren't going to put Leclerc a race seat then he's much more value to them in a car that bears one of their brands. He has been in contention for a points finish pretty much every weekend since Baku so it's not as if Sauber aren't giving him the opportunity to show and develop his skills.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:13 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Quite simply, who better to keep Alfa Romeo in the public's eye than Leclerc? He has caught my attention, and I'm not alone. Why throw that PR-value away? What good would this year have been if you don't follow it up? By now Leclerc is an established driver in the team, and while there's little doubt he would do well at Ferrari, both teams can do with the stability keeping their drivers would bring.

Weird, I thought Leclerc would have liked being a future Ferrari driver learning his trade at the high end of the midfield, rather than an Alfa Romeo brand ambassador driving out of his skin for the occasional point


There's no guarantee Haas will stay better than Ferrari. I would expect them to be very close next season.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:37 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Quite simply, who better to keep Alfa Romeo in the public's eye than Leclerc? He has caught my attention, and I'm not alone. Why throw that PR-value away? What good would this year have been if you don't follow it up? By now Leclerc is an established driver in the team, and while there's little doubt he would do well at Ferrari, both teams can do with the stability keeping their drivers would bring.

Weird, I thought Leclerc would have liked being a future Ferrari driver learning his trade at the high end of the midfield, rather than an Alfa Romeo brand ambassador driving out of his skin for the occasional point


There's no guarantee Haas will stay better than Ferrari. I would expect them to be very close next season.

Would you like to place some money on that statement (as written)? ;)


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