dizlexik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm probably being a bit thick skinned but Alfa Romeo sounds better to me than Sauber, I guess it's the nostalgia thing?
For me Sauber IS just as Nostalgiac as any other name to have ever competed in F1, BUT Sauber brought more superstar elite drivers than most other teams in history, and on very small budgets. Peter Sauber and his namesake are an integral part of the fabric that is F1, just as much as Frank Williams, Ron Dennis, Enzo Ferrari, Sir Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, and very few others.
Sauber has endured for decades through the most financially difficult and demanding era of the sport. BMW bought out the team and tried their hand at shooting to the top but found it just as difficult as anyone ever, and then they literally bailed on F1 altogether, leaving Sauber teetering on the brink of extinction and Peter stepped up and bought back the team to ensure the employees still had jobs and the team carried on. All of this financed by Peter's Private businesses which are not giant manufacturers backed by bucket loads of corporate cash.
Alfa Romeo were part of F1 early on but their tenure as a constructor was RATHER Brief as they walked away altogether, but their engines were so excellent, many other teams used their engines and modified them to suit their tastes. But their involvement was not direct for almost 2 decades until budget garagistas in the 70's once again looked to AR's engines, but they were based on the V8's powering their road going vehicles, again modified by engineers in an attempt to make them F1 worthy, but they didn't match up to most other engines. Then they disappeared again until Fiat decided they wanted to once again familiarize the public with their somewhat forgotten brand. A brand that I find has made some hellaciously FUGLY cars for decades that didn't sell all that well. Now they swoop in, buy Sauber (which is fine) but then get rid of the original and iconic name of the team in an attempt to sell the world on the team being a true factory project when…
A) They run Ferrari engines
B) They're still operating from the Hinwill factory which is in Switzerland.
Henceforth, I don't see any Italian heritage behind the team outside their close affiliation with Ferrari over the last couple of decades, so the Alfa Romeo name (for me) in F1 has too little association with the sport to evoke any sentiment of nostalgia.
Afla Romeo is true Alfa. If you go too much into it, you will realise that there aren't many teams that are true. Mercedes just bought couple British companies and splashed their own logos. Ilmor was British company. Their factory was home for Honda and other teams before is also in Britain. McLaren is just old Ron Dennis team with nothing but name in common with original McLaren. Oh and McLaren never made their own engines. Renault base in UK. Only Renault engines are designed in France, but not built IIRC. That only leaves Williams and Ferrari as the teams with some kind of continuity, but then you can argue so many things has changed that there is nothing left from old teams.
Of course you can argue that some teams from my list are actually true for some reason, but I'm intentionally finding issues to show how unfair you treat Alfa.
I'm not treating Alfa in any way. Simply stating that Alfa really doesn't hold a node of Nostalgia. Their stints in F1 were so brief and so spread out, they didn't devote themselves enough to carry that distinction.
As for other teams slapping badges, I fully agree. Mercedes Road going vehicles are among the worst and their F1 variety are 100% British engineering and German only in the money now financing the operation. That's why I laugh when I see the term German Engineering whenever I see it applied to Mercedes Benz. It's Like when I hear someone refer to Pagani as an elite "Italian" automobile brand. I just cannot accept that as fact when they aren't powered by Italian engines. A few years ago on here I was "corrected" when I referred to Ferrari as the only true Italian Supercar Manufacturer because several people felt Pagani was the Crème Brûlée of fine Italian Sportscars. The day they manufacture their own originally designed engines is the day they'll be considered for that conversation. until then, just… no.
Williams & McLaren are the same companies they were 30 years ago in terms of how their F1 efforts are carried out, but McLaren is now owned by a conglomerate of investors.
Renault now owns their team once more, but they have a VERY long history with the sport and will forever be ingrained in the fabric of F1, and they can be associated with the term Nostalgic.
Remember when it was announced that Honda would be returning to F1 via partnering with, and powering McLaren?… That feeling you got in your gut?
That was Nostalgia causing chemical changes that made you feel that way.
When Lotus announced it was returning to F1 we all got a similar feeling for the same exact reason.
Sauber evokes the same feeling for many millions of fans and for good reason.
They dedicated themselves to the sport and are the 4th longest running team in the sport!!!
Only Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams have been in the sport longer. And while these 4 teams have been competing in and supporting the sport, where was Alfa?
At least Mercedes bought Ilmore and invested heavily and supported the sport for over 20 years before buying Honda/Brawn.
Alfa has been injected into the sport for 2 reasons… 1) to save the team, and 2) so that Fiat can promote a less successful brand. And while I welcome it wholeheartedly and understand the business behind it, killing off the name Sauber is IMPO criminal. And I hope this year they actually come up with a well designed livery. Their lazy approach last year was dull and boring.
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