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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It's possible his recent operation may reign in his practice excesses but unlike Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa he's never lost a world title because of injury, as such he does have too many offs in practice but the crashes in races are slightly exaggerated in respect to evaluating a weakness in comparison to Rossi's dominant era 2001-2005 when he was the out and out best rider and for the most part on the out and out best bike were he often didn't have to push to his limit.

I think the argument being made is that Marquez pushes to the limit when he doesn't have to.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:11 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's possible his recent operation may reign in his practice excesses but unlike Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa he's never lost a world title because of injury, as such he does have too many offs in practice but the crashes in races are slightly exaggerated in respect to evaluating a weakness in comparison to Rossi's dominant era 2001-2005 when he was the out and out best rider and for the most part on the out and out best bike were he often didn't have to push to his limit.

I think the argument being made is that Marquez pushes to the limit when he doesn't have to.

Do you not find the limit in practice?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's possible his recent operation may reign in his practice excesses but unlike Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa he's never lost a world title because of injury, as such he does have too many offs in practice but the crashes in races are slightly exaggerated in respect to evaluating a weakness in comparison to Rossi's dominant era 2001-2005 when he was the out and out best rider and for the most part on the out and out best bike were he often didn't have to push to his limit.

I think the argument being made is that Marquez pushes to the limit when he doesn't have to.

Do you not find the limit in practice?

Different drivers/riders do it differently; some find the limit by working up to it, some find the limit by going over it. But things like dropping the bike from a comfortable lead is usually characteristic of pushing too hard when you don't need to. Or having to overdrive/override because you aren't quick enough, but that's not Marquez's problem.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's possible his recent operation may reign in his practice excesses but unlike Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa he's never lost a world title because of injury, as such he does have too many offs in practice but the crashes in races are slightly exaggerated in respect to evaluating a weakness in comparison to Rossi's dominant era 2001-2005 when he was the out and out best rider and for the most part on the out and out best bike were he often didn't have to push to his limit.

I think the argument being made is that Marquez pushes to the limit when he doesn't have to.

Do you not find the limit in practice?

Different drivers/riders do it differently; some find the limit by working up to it, some find the limit by going over it. But things like dropping the bike from a comfortable lead is usually characteristic of pushing too hard when you don't need to. Or having to overdrive/override because you aren't quick enough, but that's not Marquez's problem.

Without doubt he dropped the ball but in respect to him pushing too hard he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the track which may have still have been that or even lack of concentration given his big lead?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:49 pm 
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More of a concentration thing than anything, I think. The bumps on the track are bad in certain areas, but that isn't really one of them. I don't think he was riding overt his head, just riding like he does, and at these speeds, braking at that angle, it happens. That corner is more difficult than people think, in my mind. One of the hardest braking areas on the calendar, and there is elevation decline to deal with right there from flat out in 6th gear.

I doubt we see him do it too many more times, and as everyone with two eyes can see, he's simply on a level of riding no one else can touch. It does make the championship more interesting, however. Also, Lorenzo's mechanical failure, especially with multiple instances of the chain coming off both his and Marquez's bike, I wonder if they need to redesign their swingarm.

Cant wait for Jerez! That should favor Yamaha and Suzuki more as it track that rewards corner speed, so hopefully they can give Marquez a good run there.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:17 pm 
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https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... 0DyigbTXLW

Honda convinced their chain problems are now solved.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 pm 
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what channel are you guys watching motogp on in the states ? i have not been able to find it yet....thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:02 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
what channel are you guys watching motogp on in the states ? i have not been able to find it yet....thanks


I have Spectrum, it has BeInsports, which covers MotoGP. I used to have DirecTV, but they got in a dispute about BeInsport's fees, and they couldn't agree so DirecTV dropped them from all of their packages last year. I dropped DirecTV as a result, which was painful for me, but I wasn't going to be without, I'm a motorcycle junkie. :]

Spectrum isn't quite as good in terms of picture on some of their channels, but they are cheaper and I have MotoGP, so I'm a happy guy.

Another route you can take is purchasing the Video Pass directly from MotGP's website. It has an unbelievable amount of content going back decades, all the races, which are included in the price. You can watch all of the sessions from all classes live as they come on, and the races have multiple cameras (even multiple bikes!) you can watch from. It's a bit pricey, but for what you get, it's worth it, and there are payment options. My brother has it and he absolutely loves it. I myself don't, but have watched it at his house and it lives up to its billing. You can watch it from your phone, tablet, PC, MAC, smart TV---anytime, anywhere. I'm content with watching my TV for now, but I may buy it next year. Here's info: https://videopass-usa.motogp.com/live/? ... UwEALw_wcB

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:18 am 
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https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/04/30/mot ... aking.html

Very cool article, informative.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:58 am 
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Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/04/30/motogp/brembo-here-are-the-secrets-of-doviziosos-braking.html

Very cool article, informative.
A good article, even though it calls Dovi one of the best MotoGP breakers! :-D

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:41 pm 
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thanks Cold Gin...i'll see if i have that channel


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:07 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
thanks Cold Gin...i'll see if i have that channel


No problem, mate.

This may help: https://www.beinsports.com/us/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
thanks Cold Gin...i'll see if i have that channel

If you don't, Sling TV has a sports package that includes it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/04/30/motogp/brembo-here-are-the-secrets-of-doviziosos-braking.html

Very cool article, informative.
A good article, even though it calls Dovi one of the best MotoGP breakers! :-D


Mmm...I've listened to several people from Matt Birt, to Jorge Lorenzo, to people at Brembo say that Dovizioso hits the brakes harder than anyone else. Whether or not he's the best at it, not sure, but he definitely is a late braker. :shrugs:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:43 am 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/04/30/motogp/brembo-here-are-the-secrets-of-doviziosos-braking.html

Very cool article, informative.
A good article, even though it calls Dovi one of the best MotoGP breakers! :-D


Mmm...I've listened to several people from Matt Birt, to Jorge Lorenzo, to people at Brembo say that Dovizioso hits the brakes harder than anyone else. Whether or not he's the best at it, not sure, but he definitely is a late braker. :shrugs:
Exactly, a braker. But the article calls him a MotoGP breaker. Hence the smiley. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:08 pm 
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😜👍

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Yamaha debuts swingarm device as Repsol Honda go 1-2 to open up the weekend in Jerez.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/results/91 ... -1-results

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
More of a concentration thing than anything, I think. The bumps on the track are bad in certain areas, but that isn't really one of them. I don't think he was riding overt his head, just riding like he does, and at these speeds, braking at that angle, it happens. That corner is more difficult than people think, in my mind. One of the hardest braking areas on the calendar, and there is elevation decline to deal with right there from flat out in 6th gear.

I doubt we see him do it too many more times, and as everyone with two eyes can see, he's simply on a level of riding no one else can touch. It does make the championship more interesting, however. Also, Lorenzo's mechanical failure, especially with multiple instances of the chain coming off both his and Marquez's bike, I wonder if they need to redesign their swingarm.

Cant wait for Jerez! That should favor Yamaha and Suzuki more as it track that rewards corner speed, so hopefully they can give Marquez a good run there.

It's coming out now that there was a technical issue with Marquez's bike, something that was initially said by Marquez but then he had to take it back as it seems Honda are not overly keen to be shown as being at fault, strange situation for a 5 time champion to have to take the blame?

Anyway I remember it being suggested at the time by the commentators that it seemed like the engine had not shut down enough when off the throttle which has the effect of pushing on the front of bike because the bike had not slowed down enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:27 pm 
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So Marc storms off to another one. It's lucky for the championship that he had that crash in Austin. Without that, this would be looking pretty much over by now. Marc could easily have won in Qatar as well so I think it's a matter of time before he pulls away in the standings.

Lorenzo looks out to sea yet again. I just don't see him competing at the front this year. Maybe we'll see a few performances that hearken back to his glory days but the operating window is just too narrow for this guy. He's like Kimi Raikkonen.

Gutted for Quartararo here. Boy he has really had some bad luck this year. Two mechanical problems in the two races where he was at the front. He has speed though. That much is clear. Morbidelli looks good as well. He is consistently in the top ten already and on a customer bike. I think Yamaha will need to seriously consider making changes to their rider lineup. The Rossi/Vinales partnership has not been successful. It's time to move on. I'm actually not sure who they would drop. They seem committed to Rossi and the sponsorship dollars he brings to the team from various entities. To be fair; Rossi has, in fact, out-performed Vinales overall. He has been more consistent and Maverick's troubles with the starts have really held him back from achieving his full potential at Yamaha. That said, he is 40 years old and at some point you need to turn the page. I'd like to see Morbidelli on the factory bike next year. I doubt it will happen but I think it should.

Rins is a serious threat now. He's ready to contend for the title but I don't see it happening this year. Suzuki have a strong bike but they need to improve that engine if they want to actually win a championship.

There is a bit of a changing of the guard taking place in MotoGP with Pedrosa retired, Rossi turning 40 and Lorenzo so clearly off form and arguably just past his prime. I think we're really close to having Marc facing a younger generation of opponents instead of the older guys he's been competing against his whole career. I think it's time for Jack Miller, Franco Morbidelli, Peco Bagnaia and others to emerge alongside Rins and Vinales and take over the fight at the front.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:14 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
So Marc storms off to another one. It's lucky for the championship that he had that crash in Austin. Without that, this would be looking pretty much over by now. Marc could easily have won in Qatar as well so I think it's a matter of time before he pulls away in the standings.

Lorenzo looks out to sea yet again. I just don't see him competing at the front this year. Maybe we'll see a few performances that hearken back to his glory days but the operating window is just too narrow for this guy. He's like Kimi Raikkonen.

Gutted for Quartararo here. Boy he has really had some bad luck this year. Two mechanical problems in the two races where he was at the front. He has speed though. That much is clear. Morbidelli looks good as well. He is consistently in the top ten already and on a customer bike. I think Yamaha will need to seriously consider making changes to their rider lineup. The Rossi/Vinales partnership has not been successful. It's time to move on. I'm actually not sure who they would drop. They seem committed to Rossi and the sponsorship dollars he brings to the team from various entities. To be fair; Rossi has, in fact, out-performed Vinales overall. He has been more consistent and Maverick's troubles with the starts have really held him back from achieving his full potential at Yamaha. That said, he is 40 years old and at some point you need to turn the page. I'd like to see Morbidelli on the factory bike next year. I doubt it will happen but I think it should.

Rins is a serious threat now. He's ready to contend for the title but I don't see it happening this year. Suzuki have a strong bike but they need to improve that engine if they want to actually win a championship.

There is a bit of a changing of the guard taking place in MotoGP with Pedrosa retired, Rossi turning 40 and Lorenzo so clearly off form and arguably just past his prime. I think we're really close to having Marc facing a younger generation of opponents instead of the older guys he's been competing against his whole career. I think it's time for Jack Miller, Franco Morbidelli, Peco Bagnaia and others to emerge alongside Rins and Vinales and take over the fight at the front.

With Yamaha this is a pattern we've seen the past couple of years now were the older bike starts the season better because it's better developed than the new bike and the new bike gets better through the season and becomes much better than the old bike.

In respect to Marquez, old riders, new riders, I think it's much the same none of the riders are on his level, they will beat him on occasions were their bike is that much better than the Honda.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Rossi and Vinales are both under contract through 2020, I doubt Yamaha drops either of them before then. It's great to see Quartararo so fast, he's doing a brilliant job, and I think his bike has less revs than the factory Yamahas---pretty sure I read that somewhere right before the season started. I can imagine Le Mans will be going nuts with him on current form...and he's only 20 years old. Bright future! I was also impressed with Morbidelli and he was dangerous at the beginnihg of the race

I think Vinales is still a very strong rider, for reasons that are hard to understand his starts have been bad, when the bike is filled with fuel there is discussion of him not being able to adapt. Definitely there is some truth to that, as he's had some shocking starts dropping like a stone through the field---but he's still very young and fast. He did well on sunday seeing off Dovi, who I thought was going to overtake him at the end of the race. Rossi did well, he's the quintessential sunday rider, if he can figure out qualifying Yamaha will be much more competitive than last year. On sunday Vinales stated he thought they had figured out his issues, and he'll be strong going forward. We'll see, but I would think Yamaha will be keen to keep him----Rossi, I just can't see him signing another contract after his expires in 2020. At that point, Yamaha will have either Morbidelli or Quartaro to replace Rossi if they want to do it within Yamaha. Tough choice, and a lot of time to make it----for my money, I'd be Quartararo---nothing against Morbidelli, but the french kid appears to be a boneified superstar in the making. Their match up will be extremely interesting to watch this year.

Alex Rins is an absolute stud, and somebody is going to throw money at him he won't be able to turn down from the larger factories. I doubt Suzuki can keep him. Ducati, Yamaha, and Honda have to have already taken notice. However, like Vinales and Rossi, he's on a two-year deal with Suzuki through 2020.

Marquez is easily the title favorite, and I don't think anyone can really challenge him this year, althoughI hope Dovi can at Le Mans and Mugello, tracks that should favor Ducati much more than Jerez. Long straights and hard braking areas, where Ducati shines. Outside of Marquez inevitably winning it all, it's thrilling seeing the new blood and what they are bringing to the sport...I love rooting for both Quartararo and Rins.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 3:32 pm 
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https://us.motorsport.com/motogp/news/q ... a/4333667/

This is what I think I read about Quartararo prior to the season starting. As it stands now, maybe they should prioritize him over Morbidelli...lol.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:19 am 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Marquez is easily the title favorite, and I don't think anyone can really challenge him this year, althoughI hope Dovi can at Le Mans and Mugello, tracks that should favor Ducati much more than Jerez. Long straights and hard braking areas, where Ducati shines. Outside of Marquez inevitably winning it all, it's thrilling seeing the new blood and what they are bringing to the sport...I love rooting for both Quartararo and Rins.

Mugello is definitely a track Marquez is vulnerable at. He's won their (of course, he's won at every track he's raced on in MotoGP except Austria), but he's also had two DNFs, a 16th, and a sixth. Dovi or others could definitely put up a challenge there. He hasn't been stellar at Le Mans, either, but he has finished top four in four out of six attempts.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:13 pm 
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As something of a casual, can somebody briefly explain how Lorenzo is so slow? A few years ago, he was an alien and doing miracles and seemed like one of the best riders of all time... now he has been nowhere on the Ducati before a brief comeback in performance in the middle of last season and now the Honda he is nowhere again?

Is it age related at all?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
As something of a casual, can somebody briefly explain how Lorenzo is so slow? A few years ago, he was an alien and doing miracles and seemed like one of the best riders of all time... now he has been nowhere on the Ducati before a brief comeback in performance in the middle of last season and now the Honda he is nowhere again?

Is it age related at all?

I'm looking at the Yamaha which was easy to ride.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:18 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
As something of a casual, can somebody briefly explain how Lorenzo is so slow? A few years ago, he was an alien and doing miracles and seemed like one of the best riders of all time... now he has been nowhere on the Ducati before a brief comeback in performance in the middle of last season and now the Honda he is nowhere again?

Is it age related at all?


Age related? It's possible, but in my mind it isn't the primary cause.

Lorenzo was pretty seriously injured at the end of his Ducati tenure, and then he broke a bone in his wrist prior to the season starting, which forced him to miss a 3-day test in Malaysia. That was significant. The opening round saw him crash twice in practice, and in one of those crashes he broke a few ribs. The lack of time on the bike, the injuries he's battled to get over, these have had deleterious effects on the start of his ride at HRC. He's probably near full fitness now, and needs more time and fine-tuning on the Honda, which is likely set up for Marquez' riding style, possibly the most unique in all of MotoGP. Certainly worlds different than Lorenzo's smooth, sweeping, high corner-speed style.

The test yesterday in Jerez was of great help to him, as he did more laps than anyone else and was faster than he was all weekend, and only two tenths off Marquez's time, despite two falls which thankfully caused him no further injury. He's got to stay injury free and find solutions to the ergonomics of the Honda, which he says is making him use too much arm strength and making him tire too quickly. He's really got to adapt and find speed. I'm sure he knows this.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91947 ... test-falls

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Having an equally bad campaign is Zarco.

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... m/4382621/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:12 am 
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Love the analysis of David Emmett.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp ... tomatters/

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:20 am 
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https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... e/4383575/

Zarco getting flogged publicly, now.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:41 am 
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Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:58 pm 
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This kind of hubris is dangerous. Then again, It’s difficult to bet against KTM.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:54 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.

A year later in 2016 Lorenzo was 29, Dovi was 30 and Pedrosa was 31, these riders were really slower because they were too old?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Posts: 6813
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.

A year later in 2016 Lorenzo was 29, Dovi was 30 and Pedrosa was 31, these riders were really slower because they were too old?

The main thing that changed in 2016 was the bikes. Yamaha fell off and they have been on a downhill slide since their last title. Ducati simultaneously became stronger but their rider lineup was weaker. Pedrosa really wore down with all of the injuries and 2015 was the last good season of Lorenzo's career.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Posts: 32646
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.

A year later in 2016 Lorenzo was 29, Dovi was 30 and Pedrosa was 31, these riders were really slower because they were too old?

The main thing that changed in 2016 was the bikes. Yamaha fell off and they have been on a downhill slide since their last title. Ducati simultaneously became stronger but their rider lineup was weaker. Pedrosa really wore down with all of the injuries and 2015 was the last good season of Lorenzo's career.

Yamaha won the title in 2015 because they had the best bike, that's the main problem to beat Marquez you need to be on a better bike than him, we seem to be quantifying riders as being over the hill before they've even reached 30 in order to state that Marquez has not had great competition?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6813
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Even in the Yamaha days Lorenzo had bad days at the office and has never ridden well when theres problems with the bike/tyres. In 2015 he was written off when he was nowhere in the opening races whilst Rossi was winning.

Its boring when a rider just goes off into the distance but you just have to tip your hat to Marquez. Motogp has never been so competitive and hes still ultra dominant

Mad props to the KTM boss.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.

A year later in 2016 Lorenzo was 29, Dovi was 30 and Pedrosa was 31, these riders were really slower because they were too old?

The main thing that changed in 2016 was the bikes. Yamaha fell off and they have been on a downhill slide since their last title. Ducati simultaneously became stronger but their rider lineup was weaker. Pedrosa really wore down with all of the injuries and 2015 was the last good season of Lorenzo's career.

Yamaha won the title in 2015 because they had the best bike, that's the main problem to beat Marquez you need to be on a better bike than him, we seem to be quantifying riders as being over the hill before they've even reached 30 in order to state that Marquez has not had great competition?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't claim any rider was over the hill before 30 nor did I claim that Marquez has not had great competition in the past. I said that MotoGP is not at its most competitive right now. The fact is that this is largely because of how great Marc is but it's also because most of his main rivals have aged and are not performing as well as they were a few years ago. Rossi is 40, Lorenzo is 32 and has noticeably fallen off from his peak form and Dovi is 33. Younger riders like Rins and Vinales are not of the same caliber as the guys Marc has been fighting for titles throughout the early years of his career IMO. So Marc has gotten better while his main rivals have gotten worse.

Do you mean to claim that there is anyone (other than Marc) performing at the level of Lorenzo in 2013 right now? Do you think things right now are as competitive as they were in 2009 or 2012? The factory bikes are mostly all fairly competitive now (except KTM) but the championship is not. Is there any doubt that Marquez will be champion?


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:25 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't think I agree with that statement. I think it was far more competitive when Marquez first moved up to the premiere class. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi and Pedrosa were all younger and faster then. The most competitive that MotoGP has ever been was probably the period from about 2009-2015.

A year later in 2016 Lorenzo was 29, Dovi was 30 and Pedrosa was 31, these riders were really slower because they were too old?

The main thing that changed in 2016 was the bikes. Yamaha fell off and they have been on a downhill slide since their last title. Ducati simultaneously became stronger but their rider lineup was weaker. Pedrosa really wore down with all of the injuries and 2015 was the last good season of Lorenzo's career.

Yamaha won the title in 2015 because they had the best bike, that's the main problem to beat Marquez you need to be on a better bike than him, we seem to be quantifying riders as being over the hill before they've even reached 30 in order to state that Marquez has not had great competition?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't claim any rider was over the hill before 30 nor did I claim that Marquez has not had great competition in the past. I said that MotoGP is not at its most competitive right now. The fact is that this is largely because of how great Marc is but it's also because most of his main rivals have aged and are not performing as well as they were a few years ago. Rossi is 40, Lorenzo is 32 and has noticeably fallen off from his peak form and Dovi is 33. Younger riders like Rins and Vinales are not of the same caliber as the guys Marc has been fighting for titles throughout the early years of his career IMO. So Marc has gotten better while his main rivals have gotten worse.

Do you mean to claim that there is anyone (other than Marc) performing at the level of Lorenzo in 2013 right now? Do you think things right now are as competitive as they were in 2009 or 2012? The factory bikes are mostly all fairly competitive now (except KTM) but the championship is not. Is there any doubt that Marquez will be champion?

MotoGP is currently at it's most competitive, there are more competitive bikes, back in 2013 MotoGP was more like F1, you had to be on a Honda or Yamaha to win and a works bike at that, look at Rossi's trials at Ducati when he joined aged 32.

The Lorenzo of 2013 was little better than Pedrosa that year or the previous year when he won his second title or the year after, all 3 years Pedrosa was close to Lorenzo, in 2014 Rossi beat Lorenzo on the same bike.

The reason why MotoGP is not as competitive is because Marquez is a level above the likes of Lorenzo and Pedrosa ever were, he's better than when he won the title in 2013 as a rookie, better than in 2015 when he crashed too often trying to make up for early season deficits with his bike, the only rider you can give any kind of leeway to presently is Rossi because of his age but when Rossi dominated MotoGP it was far weaker than what it is now.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:29 am 
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Posts: 6813
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The main thing that changed in 2016 was the bikes. Yamaha fell off and they have been on a downhill slide since their last title. Ducati simultaneously became stronger but their rider lineup was weaker. Pedrosa really wore down with all of the injuries and 2015 was the last good season of Lorenzo's career.

Yamaha won the title in 2015 because they had the best bike, that's the main problem to beat Marquez you need to be on a better bike than him, we seem to be quantifying riders as being over the hill before they've even reached 30 in order to state that Marquez has not had great competition?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't claim any rider was over the hill before 30 nor did I claim that Marquez has not had great competition in the past. I said that MotoGP is not at its most competitive right now. The fact is that this is largely because of how great Marc is but it's also because most of his main rivals have aged and are not performing as well as they were a few years ago. Rossi is 40, Lorenzo is 32 and has noticeably fallen off from his peak form and Dovi is 33. Younger riders like Rins and Vinales are not of the same caliber as the guys Marc has been fighting for titles throughout the early years of his career IMO. So Marc has gotten better while his main rivals have gotten worse.

Do you mean to claim that there is anyone (other than Marc) performing at the level of Lorenzo in 2013 right now? Do you think things right now are as competitive as they were in 2009 or 2012? The factory bikes are mostly all fairly competitive now (except KTM) but the championship is not. Is there any doubt that Marquez will be champion?

MotoGP is currently at it's most competitive, there are more competitive bikes, back in 2013 MotoGP was more like F1, you had to be on a Honda or Yamaha to win and a works bike at that, look at Rossi's trials at Ducati when he joined aged 32.

The Lorenzo of 2013 was little better than Pedrosa that year or the previous year when he won his second title or the year after, all 3 years Pedrosa was close to Lorenzo, in 2014 Rossi beat Lorenzo on the same bike.

The reason why MotoGP is not as competitive is because Marquez is a level above the likes of Lorenzo and Pedrosa ever were, he's better than when he won the title in 2013 as a rookie, better than in 2015 when he crashed too often trying to make up for early season deficits with his bike, the only rider you can give any kind of leeway to presently is Rossi because of his age but when Rossi dominated MotoGP it was far weaker than what it is now.

So part of what you are saying is exactly what I said; that Marquez has largely made things a lot less competitive but the bikes are pretty closely matched. To claim that this is the most competitive that MotoGP has ever been while ignoring the fact that we all know who is going to win the championship within the first couple of races of the season is just indefensible. Are you claiming that Lorenzo is just as good today as he was in 2013; a year where Honda had the best bike but Jorge was still the rider who was most impressive; winning the most races and only losing the championship due to missing a race with injuries? Basically a Lewis Hamilton 2016 type of season (complete with trying to back up the points leader in the final race in hopes that someone would overtake him)? How can you defend that position? It's patently absurd. Lorenzo spends most of his time trundling around at the back now. Rossi in 2014-2015 still had days where he was the quickest guy out there. Nowadays that doesn't really happen anymore. Pedrosa is gone and Vinales is not the complete package that the riders we're talking about are. Neither is Rins as he never even managed to win titles in Moto3 or Moto2.

You seem to be jumping to the conclusion that I am trying to attack Marquez but I have categorically stated that he is easily the best in the world and has been since his second year in the premiere class. That's why this is not the most competitive that MotoGP has ever been. He will sew up the championship with several races to go this year. The sport is in a good place with the bikes though.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:20 am 
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Lorenzo is as good as ever, as proved when he got the Ducati working at Mugello last year

Stoner smashed everyone when he was on the Honda. The bikes have never been more competive and neither have the riders. Id rate Vinales far higher than Pedrosa who benefited from being on factory Honda when only Honda and Yamaha factory teams were capable of winning. As did Rossi and Lorenzo

The 800cc era of MotoGP was boring unless wet races.

Marquez basically has Stoner levels of talent but was picked up as an early teenager and heavily backed financially.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
Lorenzo is as good as ever, as proved when he got the Ducati working at Mugello last year

Stoner smashed everyone when he was on the Honda. The bikes have never been more competive and neither have the riders. Id rate Vinales far higher than Pedrosa who benefited from being on factory Honda when only Honda and Yamaha factory teams were capable of winning. As did Rossi and Lorenzo

The 800cc era of MotoGP was boring unless wet races.

Marquez basically has Stoner levels of talent but was picked up as an early teenager and heavily backed financially.

Maybe your memory isn't quite so sharp. Stoner did have a great year in 2011 on the Honda but in 2012 he didn't even beat his teammate. Marquez is a cut above Stoner; who was very fast and very talented but also very beatable.

Fundamentally, we are talking about different things. How closely matched the factory bikes are is undeniable and I am actually the first person in this thread to point out that the factory bikes are more closely matched than ever in 2019. That is a different thing from how competitive MotoGP is though. It is not particularly competitive at all right now because there is one rider who is, far and away, the favorite to win every single year. To say that this is the most competitive that MotoGP has ever been is almost like saying that 2001-2005 is the most competitive that it has ever been.

One last thing; to put Vinales on the same level as Pedrosa is very suspect. Pedrosa was clearly better at that young age than Maverick is. Maverick cannot even establish the upper hand against a 40 year old Rossi. He certainly has never produced seasons like Dani's 2010 or 2012.


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