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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:44 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Not radical but I'm watching the Indycar race and they have actual grass up to the edge of the track and the cars are able to follow each other.

That would be a nice start.

:thumbup:

First time I've watched an IndyCar race (other than the 500) and it shows what F1 is missing:

- Look at how difficult the cars look to control with less aero grip. They look constantly on the edge, and you can see the drivers fighting to stay in control at times.
- Grass and gravel actually punish mistakes as they should. And removes the need for these track limits rules.
- Cars can follow and pass each other.
- The tyres don't fall to bits when pushed too hard.
- Cars are similar in performance which means a lot of the field are bunched together. You don't necessarily need spec cars to achieve this, just relatively equal budgets (just look at F1's midfield).
- Push to pass is a good idea. They could even do this with DRS; instead of having specified zones and only allowing it when you are within a second, let the drivers use it whenever they want but only for a limited amount of time over the course of the race.
- Even refuelling I think adds something to the race. People claim it discourages drivers from attempting on-track overtakes, but I think this is only the case when the cars are so difficult to overtake with anyway. It doesn't seem to do any harm to IndyCar.


In fact I've highlighted it before, but even F2 shows how good F1 could be if it just reduced the aero reliance and had more equal cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:28 pm 
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j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not radical but I'm watching the Indycar race and they have actual grass up to the edge of the track and the cars are able to follow each other.

That would be a nice start.

:thumbup:

First time I've watched an IndyCar race (other than the 500) and it shows what F1 is missing:

- Look at how difficult the cars look to control with less aero grip. They look constantly on the edge, and you can see the drivers fighting to stay in control at times.
- Grass and gravel actually punish mistakes as they should. And removes the need for these track limits rules.
- Cars can follow and pass each other.
- The tyres don't fall to bits when pushed too hard.
- Cars are similar in performance which means a lot of the field are bunched together. You don't necessarily need spec cars to achieve this, just relatively equal budgets (just look at F1's midfield).
- Push to pass is a good idea. They could even do this with DRS; instead of having specified zones and only allowing it when you are within a second, let the drivers use it whenever they want but only for a limited amount of time over the course of the race.
- Even refuelling I think adds something to the race. People claim it discourages drivers from attempting on-track overtakes, but I think this is only the case when the cars are so difficult to overtake with anyway. It doesn't seem to do any harm to IndyCar.


In fact I've highlighted it before, but even F2 shows how good F1 could be if it just reduced the aero reliance and had more equal cars.


To be fair the midfield shows how good F1 could be if budgets were just a bit more level.

I agree though Indycar is more entertaining watch than F1 at the moment - just wish it wasn't as spec series.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:35 pm 
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One of the problems is that F1 has become very slow in solving their own problems.
For example, last year was the first French GP at Paul Ricard after a long time. As the race came closer, the idea emerged that it would be better to remove the chicane. The late Charlie Whiting said, that's not possible, the track is homologated with the chicane, and homologation takes a lot of time. The next year, this year, came, no one ever mentioned it. After the race, Toto Wolf comes up again with the same idea, how good would it be to remove chicane.

F1 has the reaction of the fossilized mammoth to its own problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:13 pm 
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I would go back to the aero regs about 25-30 years ago that produced these cars.

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Some ideas for aero refinement.
1 Reduce the width of the front wings to the distance between between the front wheels plus a few inches. This would mean that the aero designers can't make outwash front wings.
2. Reduce the number of front wing elements to two.
3. Produce a template that limits the height and width (front to back) of the total wing assembly.
4. Make the area between the axles and above the floor pan a NOGO area for any aero elements of body work. All elements in the windstream can have an aspect ratio of no more than 3-1/2 to 1 to eliminate turning suspension parts into wings. Keep the current rule allowing the wing elements to ease flow around the halo.
4.1 Allow a single element barge board ahead of the sidepod air intake. Barge boards must be continuous with no winglets, slots or louvers.
5. Limit the height of the rear wing and keep the limit of two elements.
6. Keep the DRS system till it is proved that the new gen cars can follow closely and overtake.
7. Allow some limited ground effects tunnels up to the front of the cockpit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:58 pm 
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One of the hopes is that big sponsors will start leaving F1, and induce a crisis after which F1 will get back to its roots. However, I don't see any hint of that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:15 pm 
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Single element front and rear wings - ban barge boards and all the other mid-car tabs and vanes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm 
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One change for qualifying that would immediately improve the show (and that could presumably be implemented right now) is to do away with the need to start the race on the same tires that you used in Q2. This rule essentially removes the possibility of other teams beating the faster teams by out-strategizing them. Without that rule; Leclerc or Max could have started the race on the hards and went long. it would just open up the possibility of genuine alternate strategies between the front-runners.

Additionally, they could mandate that drivers use all three compounds during the race. That might create some uncertainty.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:43 pm 
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I'm of the (maybe unpopular) opinion that F1 doesn't need "fixing" per se, but I have a couple of ideas that might improve it:

Get rid of switching between different engine modes - A single engine mode for at least the race itself. If you want to save fuel or not run flat out the driver has to manage it manually.

Introduce limited push-to-pass/boost mode as a replacement for DRS - Fuel flow is limited to limit top end engine performance, so it would make sense to use a limited amount of controllable increase in this limit as a boost/push-to-pass. It's use could be less restricted to certain zones than DRS and it's exact implementation could be down to the individual manufacturers as long as it was within the specified fuel/time per lap (or even race?) limits. A bit like a combination of how high/qualifying engine modes and DRS are used to attack or defend currently

A speed limited penalty lane on each track to replace 5 second penalty - I think this would be possible pretty much everywhere and would allow the equivalent of a 5 second penalty to be applied with an immediate in race, on track impact. It would be fairer and less disruptive to the natural flow of the race. Think of it as a very short version of a pitlane drive-through penalty, which after all would still be the next penalty above it in terms of severity.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:55 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
I'm of the (maybe unpopular) opinion that F1 doesn't need "fixing" per se, but I have a couple of ideas that might improve it:

Get rid of switching between different engine modes - A single engine mode for at least the race itself. If you want to save fuel or not run flat out the driver has to manage it manually.

Introduce limited push-to-pass/boost mode as a replacement for DRS - Fuel flow is limited to limit top end engine performance, so it would make sense to use a limited amount of controllable increase in this limit as a boost/push-to-pass. It's use could be less restricted to certain zones than DRS and it's exact implementation could be down to the individual manufacturers as long as it was within the specified fuel/time per lap (or even race?) limits. A bit like a combination of how high/qualifying engine modes and DRS are used to attack or defend currently

A speed limited penalty lane on each track to replace 5 second penalty - I think this would be possible pretty much everywhere and would allow the equivalent of a 5 second penalty to be applied with an immediate in race, on track impact. It would be fairer and less disruptive to the natural flow of the race. Think of it as a very short version of a pitlane drive-through penalty, which after all would still be the next penalty above it in terms of severity.


In my opinion, push to pass is an even more gimmicky solution to the problem than DRS. DRS is there whenever a racer has put himself close behind another driver. Push to pass is rationed out in seconds and gets used up in a somewhat arbitrary manner. Push to pass is one of the few things I really don't like about Indycar.

Currently F1 has the energy recovery system. If you generate enough energy you, in effect, have push to pass. I therefore how much energy you can generate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Not radical perhaps, but I'd remove DRS from front runners gaining on back-markers to lap them

Currently where there is a close battle between the leaders, the leader gets DRS when following a back-marker which can effectively negate the DRS advantage of the car chasing him

Blue flags are enough, they don't need the DRS advantage as well

Traffic ahead would then bring new passing opportunities among the leading pack


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:13 am 
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Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:09 pm 
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silverelise wrote:
Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!

Except that last year, France was decent. No track is going to deliver a great race every year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
silverelise wrote:
Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!

Except that last year, France was decent. No track is going to deliver a great race every year.

:thumbup:

The track was not the problem, although its distinctive features make it an easy target for blame. I actually think Paul Ricard has a good variety of corners on it and has a more interesting layout than most circuits on the calendar. Ultimately the issue was that the top 5 cars were barely ever actually close to each other at any point in the race.


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