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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:44 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Not radical but I'm watching the Indycar race and they have actual grass up to the edge of the track and the cars are able to follow each other.

That would be a nice start.

:thumbup:

First time I've watched an IndyCar race (other than the 500) and it shows what F1 is missing:

- Look at how difficult the cars look to control with less aero grip. They look constantly on the edge, and you can see the drivers fighting to stay in control at times.
- Grass and gravel actually punish mistakes as they should. And removes the need for these track limits rules.
- Cars can follow and pass each other.
- The tyres don't fall to bits when pushed too hard.
- Cars are similar in performance which means a lot of the field are bunched together. You don't necessarily need spec cars to achieve this, just relatively equal budgets (just look at F1's midfield).
- Push to pass is a good idea. They could even do this with DRS; instead of having specified zones and only allowing it when you are within a second, let the drivers use it whenever they want but only for a limited amount of time over the course of the race.
- Even refuelling I think adds something to the race. People claim it discourages drivers from attempting on-track overtakes, but I think this is only the case when the cars are so difficult to overtake with anyway. It doesn't seem to do any harm to IndyCar.


In fact I've highlighted it before, but even F2 shows how good F1 could be if it just reduced the aero reliance and had more equal cars.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:28 pm 
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j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not radical but I'm watching the Indycar race and they have actual grass up to the edge of the track and the cars are able to follow each other.

That would be a nice start.

:thumbup:

First time I've watched an IndyCar race (other than the 500) and it shows what F1 is missing:

- Look at how difficult the cars look to control with less aero grip. They look constantly on the edge, and you can see the drivers fighting to stay in control at times.
- Grass and gravel actually punish mistakes as they should. And removes the need for these track limits rules.
- Cars can follow and pass each other.
- The tyres don't fall to bits when pushed too hard.
- Cars are similar in performance which means a lot of the field are bunched together. You don't necessarily need spec cars to achieve this, just relatively equal budgets (just look at F1's midfield).
- Push to pass is a good idea. They could even do this with DRS; instead of having specified zones and only allowing it when you are within a second, let the drivers use it whenever they want but only for a limited amount of time over the course of the race.
- Even refuelling I think adds something to the race. People claim it discourages drivers from attempting on-track overtakes, but I think this is only the case when the cars are so difficult to overtake with anyway. It doesn't seem to do any harm to IndyCar.


In fact I've highlighted it before, but even F2 shows how good F1 could be if it just reduced the aero reliance and had more equal cars.


To be fair the midfield shows how good F1 could be if budgets were just a bit more level.

I agree though Indycar is more entertaining watch than F1 at the moment - just wish it wasn't as spec series.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:35 pm 
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One of the problems is that F1 has become very slow in solving their own problems.
For example, last year was the first French GP at Paul Ricard after a long time. As the race came closer, the idea emerged that it would be better to remove the chicane. The late Charlie Whiting said, that's not possible, the track is homologated with the chicane, and homologation takes a lot of time. The next year, this year, came, no one ever mentioned it. After the race, Toto Wolf comes up again with the same idea, how good would it be to remove chicane.

F1 has the reaction of the fossilized mammoth to its own problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:13 pm 
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I would go back to the aero regs about 25-30 years ago that produced these cars.

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Some ideas for aero refinement.
1 Reduce the width of the front wings to the distance between between the front wheels plus a few inches. This would mean that the aero designers can't make outwash front wings.
2. Reduce the number of front wing elements to two.
3. Produce a template that limits the height and width (front to back) of the total wing assembly.
4. Make the area between the axles and above the floor pan a NOGO area for any aero elements of body work. All elements in the windstream can have an aspect ratio of no more than 3-1/2 to 1 to eliminate turning suspension parts into wings. Keep the current rule allowing the wing elements to ease flow around the halo.
4.1 Allow a single element barge board ahead of the sidepod air intake. Barge boards must be continuous with no winglets, slots or louvers.
5. Limit the height of the rear wing and keep the limit of two elements.
6. Keep the DRS system till it is proved that the new gen cars can follow closely and overtake.
7. Allow some limited ground effects tunnels up to the front of the cockpit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:58 pm 
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One of the hopes is that big sponsors will start leaving F1, and induce a crisis after which F1 will get back to its roots. However, I don't see any hint of that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:15 pm 
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Single element front and rear wings - ban barge boards and all the other mid-car tabs and vanes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm 
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One change for qualifying that would immediately improve the show (and that could presumably be implemented right now) is to do away with the need to start the race on the same tires that you used in Q2. This rule essentially removes the possibility of other teams beating the faster teams by out-strategizing them. Without that rule; Leclerc or Max could have started the race on the hards and went long. it would just open up the possibility of genuine alternate strategies between the front-runners.

Additionally, they could mandate that drivers use all three compounds during the race. That might create some uncertainty.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:43 pm 
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I'm of the (maybe unpopular) opinion that F1 doesn't need "fixing" per se, but I have a couple of ideas that might improve it:

Get rid of switching between different engine modes - A single engine mode for at least the race itself. If you want to save fuel or not run flat out the driver has to manage it manually.

Introduce limited push-to-pass/boost mode as a replacement for DRS - Fuel flow is limited to limit top end engine performance, so it would make sense to use a limited amount of controllable increase in this limit as a boost/push-to-pass. It's use could be less restricted to certain zones than DRS and it's exact implementation could be down to the individual manufacturers as long as it was within the specified fuel/time per lap (or even race?) limits. A bit like a combination of how high/qualifying engine modes and DRS are used to attack or defend currently

A speed limited penalty lane on each track to replace 5 second penalty - I think this would be possible pretty much everywhere and would allow the equivalent of a 5 second penalty to be applied with an immediate in race, on track impact. It would be fairer and less disruptive to the natural flow of the race. Think of it as a very short version of a pitlane drive-through penalty, which after all would still be the next penalty above it in terms of severity.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:55 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
I'm of the (maybe unpopular) opinion that F1 doesn't need "fixing" per se, but I have a couple of ideas that might improve it:

Get rid of switching between different engine modes - A single engine mode for at least the race itself. If you want to save fuel or not run flat out the driver has to manage it manually.

Introduce limited push-to-pass/boost mode as a replacement for DRS - Fuel flow is limited to limit top end engine performance, so it would make sense to use a limited amount of controllable increase in this limit as a boost/push-to-pass. It's use could be less restricted to certain zones than DRS and it's exact implementation could be down to the individual manufacturers as long as it was within the specified fuel/time per lap (or even race?) limits. A bit like a combination of how high/qualifying engine modes and DRS are used to attack or defend currently

A speed limited penalty lane on each track to replace 5 second penalty - I think this would be possible pretty much everywhere and would allow the equivalent of a 5 second penalty to be applied with an immediate in race, on track impact. It would be fairer and less disruptive to the natural flow of the race. Think of it as a very short version of a pitlane drive-through penalty, which after all would still be the next penalty above it in terms of severity.


In my opinion, push to pass is an even more gimmicky solution to the problem than DRS. DRS is there whenever a racer has put himself close behind another driver. Push to pass is rationed out in seconds and gets used up in a somewhat arbitrary manner. Push to pass is one of the few things I really don't like about Indycar.

Currently F1 has the energy recovery system. If you generate enough energy you, in effect, have push to pass. I therefore how much energy you can generate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Not radical perhaps, but I'd remove DRS from front runners gaining on back-markers to lap them

Currently where there is a close battle between the leaders, the leader gets DRS when following a back-marker which can effectively negate the DRS advantage of the car chasing him

Blue flags are enough, they don't need the DRS advantage as well

Traffic ahead would then bring new passing opportunities among the leading pack


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:13 am 
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Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:09 pm 
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silverelise wrote:
Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!

Except that last year, France was decent. No track is going to deliver a great race every year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
silverelise wrote:
Cancel the contracts with the circuits that historically make people fall asleep (ie France etc), extend the ones that produce exciting races!

Except that last year, France was decent. No track is going to deliver a great race every year.

:thumbup:

The track was not the problem, although its distinctive features make it an easy target for blame. I actually think Paul Ricard has a good variety of corners on it and has a more interesting layout than most circuits on the calendar. Ultimately the issue was that the top 5 cars were barely ever actually close to each other at any point in the race.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Sorry to dig up an old-ish thread..

I realise this would never happen but I'd like to go to an old-fashioned clutch pedal and gearstick. Lots of opportunities for missing gears and a huge endurance / concentration challenge.

At least get rid of the power steering.

They took ABS etc away so you never know..


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:13 pm 
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HamsterTime wrote:
Sorry to dig up an old-ish thread..

I realise this would never happen but I'd like to go to an old-fashioned clutch pedal and gearstick. Lots of opportunities for missing gears and a huge endurance / concentration challenge.

At least get rid of the power steering.

They took ABS etc away so you never know..


I would LOVE manual gear changes to come back to F1. It would be amazing.

It won't happen though.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:06 am 
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Here's one that's been floating around in the tumbleweed riddled ghost town between my ears. Not so much F1 but the tracks they race on.

Design circuits, or modify where possible, to accommodate a pit stop that would be almost as quick as completing the lap. So instead of a driver losing 20 - 25 seconds doing a pit stop, he might only lose 5 - 10 seconds, if that.

I think that'd encourage more strategic pit stops.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Here's one that's been floating around in the tumbleweed riddled ghost town between my ears. Not so much F1 but the tracks they race on.

Design circuits, or modify where possible, to accommodate a pit stop that would be almost as quick as completing the lap. So instead of a driver losing 20 - 25 seconds doing a pit stop, he might only lose 5 - 10 seconds, if that.

I think that'd encourage more strategic pit stops.

I actually think that's an option worth exploring. If the pit stop didn't cost much of any time at all, there'd be far less (almost no) incentive for coasting around to save the tyres.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Here's one that's been floating around in the tumbleweed riddled ghost town between my ears. Not so much F1 but the tracks they race on.

Design circuits, or modify where possible, to accommodate a pit stop that would be almost as quick as completing the lap. So instead of a driver losing 20 - 25 seconds doing a pit stop, he might only lose 5 - 10 seconds, if that.

I think that'd encourage more strategic pit stops.

I actually think that's an option worth exploring. If the pit stop didn't cost much of any time at all, there'd be far less (almost no) incentive for coasting around to save the tyres.


I believe this is something they are trying to do with Zandvort


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:41 am 
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Do away with superlicence penalty points and deduct championship points instead. Has anyone ever been disqualified from a race for accumulating too many in the 12 month period? It doesn’t seem like much of a deterrent when most offences seem to attract 2 at the most, though it could open the door for more controversy. Dominant teams could afford to take more risks so the guidelines of how many points to award and for what would be complicated to decide upon.

Alternatively, have the superlicence penalty points remaining valid for say 3 years, as is the case with the UK driving licence.

A couple of times this year I’ve thought that a 2.5 second penalty should exist instead of the minimum being the 5.

Judge instances of blocking based on the outcome for the blocked driver and penalise accordingly. Blocking is blocking but Hamilton and Russell received the same penalty I believe when one didn’t prevent a driver from advancing to the next stage of quali and the other did. I’m not saying one should get off scot free, but that the other should have got a more severe penalty.

I like the idea of the fastest lap point but the top 10 condition doesn’t seem to do anything besides affect where in the order the driver is that can afford a pit stop for fresh tyres. I would ban pitting solely for tyres for a fastest lap attempt (I’m guessing the data would be available to police whether teams had then fabricated alternative reasons for the extra stop?)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:57 pm 
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Does F1 really need fixing? Can you remember a 5 race stretch as exciting as these last 5?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Does F1 really need fixing? Can you remember a 5 race stretch as exciting as these last 5?


When it's an uneven playing field? When a select few of the participants basically control the direction of the sport & act out of self interest against the betterment of the sport? When some teams have pretty much no hope of fighting their way up the table to eventually fight for wins & championships? When only 3 teams have won races in the past 6 years and have scored about 93% of the trophies available in that time?

Yeah, I think it needs fixing.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:43 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Does F1 really need fixing? Can you remember a 5 race stretch as exciting as these last 5?


Like Jezza has said all the previous problems remain. Nothing's changed in the last 5 races. Pleased as I am that we have had a run of such good ones.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:47 pm 
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At this stage, those issues are well established. We'll see what happens come October but if the stakeholders are not willing to commit to solutions then we'll be SOL.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Until DRS is removed (and not replaced with any kind of alternative for false advantage) F1 will never be truly fixed.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:40 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Until DRS is removed (and not replaced with any kind of alternative for false advantage) F1 will never be truly fixed.

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Until DRS is removed (and not replaced with any kind of alternative for false advantage) F1 will never be truly fixed.


I look forward to the days where a train of cars get stuck behind one of the top 8 that decided to go for the longer hard strategy.... watching cars build up lap after lap after lap because none of them take too much of a risk getting that 1 single place... So they came up with DRS. A boost only available on the straights. ERS/Kers to give them a little more of an edge.

DRS/ERS/KERS or any other boost has never been the issue in F1. It's there as a driving aid to stop two cars turning in to a large train.

People have very short term memories. When reliability, pit stops and even strat calls were inconsistent... you didn't really have this problem. When teams got better on all the above... then started the trains. The car in front being half a second lap slower would result in a train forming. Drivers afraid of getting too big of a penalty when taking high risks or.... just can't get enough speed on the few overtaking opportunities on the track.

Problems in F1 existed before DRS was even around but.... I've been around long enough to remember the days of 'boring F1'.

Short term memories indeed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Until DRS is removed (and not replaced with any kind of alternative for false advantage) F1 will never be truly fixed.


I look forward to the days where a train of cars get stuck behind one of the top 8 that decided to go for the longer hard strategy.... watching cars build up lap after lap after lap because none of them take too much of a risk getting that 1 single place... So they came up with DRS. A boost only available on the straights. ERS/Kers to give them a little more of an edge.

DRS/ERS/KERS or any other boost has never been the issue in F1. It's there as a driving aid to stop two cars turning in to a large train.

People have very short term memories. When reliability, pit stops and even strat calls were inconsistent... you didn't really have this problem. When teams got better on all the above... then started the trains. The car in front being half a second lap slower would result in a train forming. Drivers afraid of getting too big of a penalty when taking high risks or.... just can't get enough speed on the few overtaking opportunities on the track.

Problems in F1 existed before DRS was even around but.... I've been around long enough to remember the days of 'boring F1'.

Short term memories indeed.

KERS or any other boost system is fine for the simple fact that it's the same for everyone in battle. Push-to-pass in IndyCar, HyperBoost in FE - all totally fine. DRS is not the same because it gives an unfair advantage to one car over the other. It's the definition of a casual fan-pleasing gimmick - the kinda people that only watch F1 for crashes and overtakes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Until DRS is removed (and not replaced with any kind of alternative for false advantage) F1 will never be truly fixed.


I look forward to the days where a train of cars get stuck behind one of the top 8 that decided to go for the longer hard strategy.... watching cars build up lap after lap after lap because none of them take too much of a risk getting that 1 single place... So they came up with DRS. A boost only available on the straights. ERS/Kers to give them a little more of an edge.

DRS/ERS/KERS or any other boost has never been the issue in F1. It's there as a driving aid to stop two cars turning in to a large train.

People have very short term memories. When reliability, pit stops and even strat calls were inconsistent... you didn't really have this problem. When teams got better on all the above... then started the trains. The car in front being half a second lap slower would result in a train forming. Drivers afraid of getting too big of a penalty when taking high risks or.... just can't get enough speed on the few overtaking opportunities on the track.

Problems in F1 existed before DRS was even around but.... I've been around long enough to remember the days of 'boring F1'.

Short term memories indeed.


I went to my first live F1 race in 1986. I have no long term memory issues, just an opinion.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Why not just force the winner to carry a weight penalty for the rest of the season, as is done in other branches of the sport?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Hello all!

I hope everyone is well. While enjoying my time away from here and F1 until it gets more competitive, I have heard that the powers that be are considering reverse order grids.

Considering that I suggested that in the very first post I made here, I consider this to be great news and I hope they do it. Might give me a reason to start watching again :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:59 am 
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Something that just occurred to me while watching yesterday’s qualifying... change the rules so that you start the race on the tyre you set the fastest lap in Q3 on, rather than Q2 as is the case now. Therefore to get the often preferable medium starting tyre, it would be likely that the teams/drivers would be sacrificing grid position to an extent. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Ban pit stops under the virtual safety car!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:42 pm 
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https://www.planetf1.com/news/unanimous ... rse-grids/

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The F1 drivers may not like it but Ross Brawn says Liberty Media has “unanimous team support” to trial reverse grids at some 2020 grands prix.

Looking at ways to spice up the show, Formula 1’s powers-that-be are considering running reverse grids at a few races next season.



Yes yes yes!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:45 pm 
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-K- wrote:
Something that just occurred to me while watching yesterday’s qualifying... change the rules so that you start the race on the tyre you set the fastest lap in Q3 on, rather than Q2 as is the case now. Therefore to get the often preferable medium starting tyre, it would be likely that the teams/drivers would be sacrificing grid position to an extent. Thoughts?

This used to be the rule. The problem was that the drivers in the lower half of the top 10 didn't bother making a serious attempt at Q3 (or didn't even go out at all) because starting on fresh, optimum race tyres was far more beneficial than starting a couple of places higher up.

I'd rather they got rid of the whole idea of starting the race on your qualifying tyres and let them use whatever tyres they want.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Ground effects. Skirts were banned in F1 back in 1982 because of safety fears. The cars and circuits have evolved since to the point where, surely, this should be considered again. Voila - dirty air effect mitigated.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:26 am 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Ground effects. Skirts were banned in F1 back in 1982 because of safety fears. The cars and circuits have evolved since to the point where, surely, this should be considered again. Voila - dirty air effect mitigated.

Or magnified! Dirty air that won't permit airfoils to create proper downforce will most likely also disrupt the air needed to create downforce with the reverse airfoils that are necessary for ground effects to work properly.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:49 am 
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Eliminate the Fuel Flow restrictions - they don't permit enough fuel flow to even get the engines to their maximum RPM limit. Rules limit RPM to 15K and fuel flow restrictions are holding them to about 12K. There is already a maximum amount of fuel permitted - that is enough.

The engine life requirements are only driving up costs - not reducing them and they are penalizing development of power, driveability and longevity, the grid place penalties are making F1 a running joke.

If you are trying to develop hybrid power - don't limit how much can be stored or used; let those who can develop more use what they developed.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:57 am 
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Kev627 wrote:
Ban pit stops under the virtual safety car!

I'd allow pitstops under the virtual/full safety car.

...However I'd calculate the relative pit lane time saved and add it onto pit stops served under SC/VSC conditions.

So for instance, as I recall it was 18 seconds pit lane loss under VSC in Russia: So if it's normally 24 seconds you have to remain stationary for 6 extra seconds after the pit stop is complete if it is made under VSC, served in exactly the same way as any other time penalty except that the instant the track goes green you can get going.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:53 am
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wolfticket wrote:
Kev627 wrote:
Ban pit stops under the virtual safety car!

I'd allow pitstops under the virtual/full safety car.

...However I'd calculate the relative pit lane time saved and add it onto pit stops served under SC/VSC conditions.

So for instance, as I recall it was 18 seconds pit lane loss under VSC in Russia: So if it's normally 24 seconds you have to remain stationary for 6 extra seconds after the pit stop is complete if it is made under VSC, served in exactly the same way as any other time penalty except that the instant the track goes green you can get going.


Yeah, and this would be so easy to implement and there is no reason for them not to already be doing this since they do it anyway for 5 and 10 second penalties like you say.

But the FIA enjoy the randomness and fake excitement created by a team jumping another in the pits via the VSC/SC.

In the long run these things even out, (Hamilton lost out in Australia 2018 but gained in Russia 2019), but I would say that their reluctance to sort this simple issue out has led to both aforementioned races being unsatisfactory, (I didn't enjoy Australia 2018 and I didn't enjoy Russia 2019 either), as opposed to both races being spiced up.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:17 pm 
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I quite like the idea of an electric only limp home mode à la Le Mans.

If in situations like yesterday, where Vettel had to stop the car immediately to avoid damage to mechanical components, he could instead kill everything apart from the electric motor and get the car to somewhere safe or back to the pits slowly but under it's own power (with flags to warn drivers approaching).

I think it would reduce the likelihood interruptions to racing through sustained periods of VSC/SC or waved yellows, and also reduce the amount of time marshals spend recovering a car from dangerous positions.

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