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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:08 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
KUBICA!!!

:nod:

I think given how terrible the Williams is compared to everyone else, and with how good the Red Bull is by comparison, Gasly is doing even worse than Kubica.


As of Canada George Russell had out performed Kubica in every practice, qualifying, or race session. I have not checked since then but I don't remember a session where both were running and Robert was faster than George. Possibly the same could be said for the superiority of Max over Pierre. I don't know.

Robert finished ahead in France


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:58 pm 
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Kubica, because while Gasly is getting thumped by Max, everyone heralds Max as one of the top drivers in the sport. GR is still a rookie, and he is putting the wood to Kubica like Robert stole his girlfriend. This is not the Robert Kubica we once knew. This is the pay driver who doesn't even deserve a pay drive Robert Kubica. It's like they transplanted Alex Yoong's lack of talent into Robert's body.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Pimpwerx wrote:
Kubica, because while Gasly is getting thumped by Max, everyone heralds Max as one of the top drivers in the sport. GR is still a rookie, and he is putting the wood to Kubica like Robert stole his girlfriend. This is not the Robert Kubica we once knew. This is the pay driver who doesn't even deserve a pay drive Robert Kubica. It's like they transplanted Alex Yoong's lack of talent into Robert's body.


Just out of interest, how did Kubica beat Russell in France? I'm assuming it wasn't on genuine pace and GR had some kind of a problem?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:30 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Pimpwerx wrote:
Kubica, because while Gasly is getting thumped by Max, everyone heralds Max as one of the top drivers in the sport. GR is still a rookie, and he is putting the wood to Kubica like Robert stole his girlfriend. This is not the Robert Kubica we once knew. This is the pay driver who doesn't even deserve a pay drive Robert Kubica. It's like they transplanted Alex Yoong's lack of talent into Robert's body.


Just out of interest, how did Kubica beat Russell in France? I'm assuming it wasn't on genuine pace and GR had some kind of a problem?


Russel had 2 pit stops. His later one likely was due to the fact he had damage on his car from being forced off track by kubica earlier on. Despite this damage, he still looked way quicker. He was past kubica in less than 20 laps despite contacting each other and started to pull a gap. I think it was to do with the damage, but even though he pulled a 6 second gap to kubica, he soon had to pit again only about 10 laps after he previously did. Came out 25 seconds behind Kubica. Within the first few laps, it dropped to 27 for some reason. Russel then closed it right down to 10 seconds by the end.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:54 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Pimpwerx wrote:
Kubica, because while Gasly is getting thumped by Max, everyone heralds Max as one of the top drivers in the sport. GR is still a rookie, and he is putting the wood to Kubica like Robert stole his girlfriend. This is not the Robert Kubica we once knew. This is the pay driver who doesn't even deserve a pay drive Robert Kubica. It's like they transplanted Alex Yoong's lack of talent into Robert's body.


Just out of interest, how did Kubica beat Russell in France? I'm assuming it wasn't on genuine pace and GR had some kind of a problem?


Russel had 2 pit stops. His later one likely was due to the fact he had damage on his car from being forced off track by kubica earlier on. Despite this damage, he still looked way quicker. He was past kubica in less than 20 laps despite contacting each other and started to pull a gap. I think it was to do with the damage, but even though he pulled a 6 second gap to kubica, he soon had to pit again only about 10 laps after he previously did. Came out 25 seconds behind Kubica. Within the first few laps, it dropped to 27 for some reason. Russel then closed it right down to 10 seconds by the end.


Thank you.

Even though it was only two races ago, it was so dull I wasn't paying attention to a lot of it!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Easily Kubica.. if it wasn't for all his sponsors he'd be out by now,,, whatever damage he's done to his hands.arms/side from his rally accident has seriously affected him it seems.. i can't see his sponsors wanting to continue to hi get beat by Russek every qualifyingrace..


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:39 pm 
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What about Ocon? 2019 not a great season for him as a driver....


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:25 am 
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Longnose wrote:
What about Ocon? 2019 not a great season for him as a driver....

He has won every race he has entered!!! :nod:

:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


Wouldn't that make Stroll the worst? He's being beaten by Perez.

Gasly needs to go. There are few things I hate to see in Formula 1 as much as good equipment being wasted on a truly inferior driver. It's like Alesi and Berger at Ferrari, or Alesi and Berger at Benetton. Shumacher gave us fireworks at both. Alesi and Berger rendered them also-rans. I had reasonable expectations of Gasly, but Max Verstappen is making him look like Jos Verstappen. It is more than time to try anyone else in that RedBull.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Todd wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


Wouldn't that make Stroll the worst? He's being beaten by Perez.

Gasly needs to go. There are few things I hate to see in Formula 1 as much as good equipment being wasted on a truly inferior driver. It's like Alesi and Berger at Ferrari, or Alesi and Berger at Benetton. Shumacher gave us fireworks at both. Alesi and Berger rendered them also-rans. I had reasonable expectations of Gasly, but Max Verstappen is making him look like Jos Verstappen. It is more than time to try anyone else in that RedBull.


Qualifying is clearly a major weakness for Stroll. But there have been 2 race days where he has beaten Perez, and one very convincingly. And in many others, his pace on race day has actually looked quite decent and not far off perez. But his qualifying makes his race result look bad. Obviously this is not good, but his pace on sundays and the way he overtakes and defends actually looks pretty good. As crazy as this sounds, I think Stroll could possibly be better than Gasly. On race day anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:36 pm 
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Todd wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


Wouldn't that make Stroll the worst? He's being beaten by Perez.

Gasly needs to go. There are few things I hate to see in Formula 1 as much as good equipment being wasted on a truly inferior driver. It's like Alesi and Berger at Ferrari, or Alesi and Berger at Benetton. Shumacher gave us fireworks at both. Alesi and Berger rendered them also-rans. I had reasonable expectations of Gasly, but Max Verstappen is making him look like Jos Verstappen. It is more than time to try anyone else in that RedBull.


Yeah, I completely agree.

When a driver starts off really bad, they never turn it around. Maybe if anyone has an example of a driver in F1 history looking really poor in their first few races and then they turn it around and become a top tier driver then please point it out to me as I am genuinely interested if this has happened, but I don't think it has. Then if you look at the amount of times a driver shows they are poor initially and then they go on to remain poor, well that is pretty darn common and seems to happen all the time. Perhaps they improve slightly to being a little less bad but they never significantly turn their form around.

The moment that Gasly was still slow in Bahrain, I knew he would never be able to turn this around, and the seven races since Bahrain have been pure wasted time already.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:01 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Todd wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


Wouldn't that make Stroll the worst? He's being beaten by Perez.

Gasly needs to go. There are few things I hate to see in Formula 1 as much as good equipment being wasted on a truly inferior driver. It's like Alesi and Berger at Ferrari, or Alesi and Berger at Benetton. Shumacher gave us fireworks at both. Alesi and Berger rendered them also-rans. I had reasonable expectations of Gasly, but Max Verstappen is making him look like Jos Verstappen. It is more than time to try anyone else in that RedBull.


Yeah, I completely agree.

When a driver starts off really bad, they never turn it around. Maybe if anyone has an example of a driver in F1 history looking really poor in their first few races and then they turn it around and become a top tier driver then please point it out to me as I am genuinely interested if this has happened, but I don't think it has. Then if you look at the amount of times a driver shows they are poor initially and then they go on to remain poor, well that is pretty darn common and seems to happen all the time. Perhaps they improve slightly to being a little less bad but they never significantly turn their form around.

The moment that Gasly was still slow in Bahrain, I knew he would never be able to turn this around, and the seven races since Bahrain have been pure wasted time already.


Mansell was miles off Rosberg at first when he joined Williams. Laura didn't have a rapid start to his F1 career either. So it has happened.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:11 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Todd wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


Wouldn't that make Stroll the worst? He's being beaten by Perez.

Gasly needs to go. There are few things I hate to see in Formula 1 as much as good equipment being wasted on a truly inferior driver. It's like Alesi and Berger at Ferrari, or Alesi and Berger at Benetton. Shumacher gave us fireworks at both. Alesi and Berger rendered them also-rans. I had reasonable expectations of Gasly, but Max Verstappen is making him look like Jos Verstappen. It is more than time to try anyone else in that RedBull.


Yeah, I completely agree.

When a driver starts off really bad, they never turn it around. Maybe if anyone has an example of a driver in F1 history looking really poor in their first few races and then they turn it around and become a top tier driver then please point it out to me as I am genuinely interested if this has happened, but I don't think it has. Then if you look at the amount of times a driver shows they are poor initially and then they go on to remain poor, well that is pretty darn common and seems to happen all the time. Perhaps they improve slightly to being a little less bad but they never significantly turn their form around.

The moment that Gasly was still slow in Bahrain, I knew he would never be able to turn this around, and the seven races since Bahrain have been pure wasted time already.


Mansell was miles off Rosberg at first when he joined Williams. Laura didn't have a rapid start to his F1 career either. So it has happened.


Mansell was at Lotus for a while before that though so maybe he showed some flashes of brilliance then? I'm not sure as I didn't follow F1 during that time because I wasn't alive, and Lauda of course is going even further back.

So there has possibly been one or two instances, and none since 1985 is that what you are saying? Because if so, you are essentially agreeing with me, that it is not worth perservering with a poor driver because the chances of them actually being top tier is so tiny they have essentially blown their chance and it is time for them to be moved on. The cost/benefit analysis will show that it is better off for you to give a new unknown quantity a chance than keep on hoping a poor driver will make significant improvements.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:45 pm 
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i can appreciate a good historical discussion but let’s not forget this is a 2019 thread

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Lauda started F1 in 1972 in a terrible March car. It is unlikely anyone else would have had a better go of it. He was quite impressive in the BRM in 1973, but the team was imploding. There is no truth to Lauda having anything resembling a Gasly season.

Mansell was often a very exciting driver, but he didn't fair all that well against Prost in the prime of his career. Williams didn't really rate Nigel even when he was walking the championship in Newey's spaceship.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:07 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.


That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari has a lot to do with it but I'd expect him to at least have the measure of the Red Bulls and, Canada aside, challenge Lewis on a consistent basis.

If Charles starts reeling him in before the summer break then expect rumours of his future to go into overdrive.


Huh? RBR is in better shape/form than Ferrari this year.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:15 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.


That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari has a lot to do with it but I'd expect him to at least have the measure of the Red Bulls and, Canada aside, challenge Lewis on a consistent basis.

If Charles starts reeling him in before the summer break then expect rumours of his future to go into overdrive.


Huh? RBR is in better shape/form than Ferrari this year.

The Max/RBR combo maybe, not the Gasly/RBR combo. The second one is just getting a real beating


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:15 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.


That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari has a lot to do with it but I'd expect him to at least have the measure of the Red Bulls and, Canada aside, challenge Lewis on a consistent basis.

If Charles starts reeling him in before the summer break then expect rumours of his future to go into overdrive.


Huh? RBR is in better shape/form than Ferrari this year.

The Max/RBR combo maybe, not the Gasly/RBR combo. The second one is just getting a real beating


Agreed but I'm mostly convinced it's Gasly the problem rather than the RBR car.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:51 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:

That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari has a lot to do with it but I'd expect him to at least have the measure of the Red Bulls and, Canada aside, challenge Lewis on a consistent basis.

If Charles starts reeling him in before the summer break then expect rumours of his future to go into overdrive.


Huh? RBR is in better shape/form than Ferrari this year.

The Max/RBR combo maybe, not the Gasly/RBR combo. The second one is just getting a real beating


Agreed but I'm mostly convinced it's Gasly the problem rather than the RBR car.

It is difficult to judge, they have better aero, but not a better engine. It is maybe on par overall with the Ferrari car and as a team they have better strategy (frankly an easy comparison to Ferrari dropping the ball everywhere this year).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:26 pm 
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I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:31 pm 
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Todd wrote:
I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?

Yes, seems that they are coming very late to this decision.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:59 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Todd wrote:
I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?

Yes, seems that they are coming very late to this decision.

That's actually hard to even fathom. How have they not tried this already?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:42 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Todd wrote:
I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?

Yes, seems that they are coming very late to this decision.

That's actually hard to even fathom. How have they not tried this already?

Button 2012 anyone? He went through a period were he was way off the pace and McLaren just could not figure out why.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:16 am 
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Todd wrote:
I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?


This make any comparison between drivers in the same team almost impossible. We know that there are engineering difference across garages and I'm sure its not only happening at Red Bull. It remains to be seen if this changes Gasly's performances of course but you wonder about the situations elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:52 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Todd wrote:
I just read an article stating that Gasly will now be using Verstappen's setup as a baseline. How is this possibly something that they're only trying now?


This make any comparison between drivers in the same team almost impossible. We know that there are engineering difference across garages and I'm sure its not only happening at Red Bull. It remains to be seen if this changes Gasly's performances of course but you wonder about the situations elsewhere.


I don't think it does. Drivers normally have different setups depending on their style. They dial in what is best for them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:23 am 
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I get that, but Gasly came to the team with no knowledge of the design specifications or baseline on the team. So where would they set the baseline?

MV has data, experience and the relationships within the team. Surely they wouldn't just let a 'newbie' lay down their own design desires without a pointer.


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