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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Remmirath wrote:
I have my doubts that a top three team is actually necessary in F3 or F2. I'd think at least she could get a drive in one of the smaller teams, beat her team-mate and do well for that, and then move up to a bigger team next year. Unless of course she can't do that, in which case she is simply not good enough and all the money in the world won't help.

I think the team doesn't matter much in F2, but in F3 it's a little different. Prema has won every single championship except for the one Lando Norris managed to steal. There is a very strong suggestion that driving for Prema really does increase your chances of winning the title, although Lando is proof that it's not an absolute must-have.

That said, I agree with the general consensus. She should get whatever drive she can get for $500,000 and impress with her driving. She may think she's suddenly Fernando Alonso and able to name her team in whatever series she joins... but the reality is that she's just won the equivalent of a regional F3 championship. She's still pretty low on the ladder.


Current F3 is much more a renamed GP3 than a continuation of what used to be F3.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:04 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


The point is though that Russel is there, he took the seat because it was the best available, just like Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Ricciardo, Schumacher, Senna, Hakkinen... basically almost everyone except Hamilton. They all trounced their team mates in uncompetitive cars and got a drive with a big team.

I'm not sure who she thinks she's kidding; thinking she should walk into a top F3 team because she won W Series and finished 8th in British F3. None of the drivers who beat her in the latter have an F3 drive as of yet and in reality she was probably the 10th best driver in that series.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way to be honest. Having already competed in F3, she knows first-hand how important it is to be with the top teams. She finished 8th in the series but, had she been with a top team, she would likely have finished higher up in the standings. She's simply saying that she is not looking to go back into F3 in the same exact position that she was in the last time around. Having won a championship this season; it's logical for her to try to pivot that into a top drive in whatever series she goes to next. You're looking at it as some kind of entitlement thing but it's just common sense.


She was in British F3. A national series. Moving to what is currently called F3 is a massive step up from that. She wouldn't be in the same position at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:17 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're looking at it the wrong way to be honest. Having already competed in F3, she knows first-hand how important it is to be with the top teams. She finished 8th in the series but, had she been with a top team, she would likely have finished higher up in the standings. She's simply saying that she is not looking to go back into F3 in the same exact position that she was in the last time around. Having won a championship this season; it's logical for her to try to pivot that into a top drive in whatever series she goes to next. You're looking at it as some kind of entitlement thing but it's just common sense.

To be honest, I don't think it's common sense -- or even correct. Her stock right now is as high as I can see it going; I don't think she's likely to win another W series title if she stays.

Which is why it makes sense for her to try to move up the ladder now. Perhaps you don't see her going anywhere but I'm sure she sees things differently. This is her trying to play her cards right.

Yeah, it makes sense to target a top team -- what doesn't make sense is to say it's all or nothing. Any drive in F3 has to be better than another season of W series where she has nothing to gain.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:46 am 
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But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:09 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.



So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Certainly more dollars then she has got, extremely wealthy parents can by pass the need of the top teams for talented drivers as we see with the likes of Sean Geleal.

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Last edited by pokerman on Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:10 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?


Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.

Without a doubt, the sponsorship opportunities for a competitive female driver I would say far exceeds that of an equivalent talented male driver, Danica Patrick pays testament to that.


Danica Patrick is pretty much why I have doubts over this series as a tool to get girls racing karts. Patrick is possibly the most high profile racing driver in the states over the last 20 years. If having a viable role model is what was required then we would be getting female drivers starting to break through in America. And we aren't.

Good point.

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2016: 4th Place

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:13 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I don't agree. In F1, sure, you can definitely still impress when in a car that isn't at the front. The fact is though that it's much harder. It's not easy for George Russell, for example, to impress people because he will not score points even when he has an amazing race.

F3 is a different ball of wax altogether. If you race in F3 for the wrong team, you will definitely hurt your career. Generally, only a driver who finishes in the top 3 at that level will have good prospects to move up the ladder. Even someone as great as Lewis Hamilton ran into this issue back in 2004, when he raced for the first year Manor Motorsports team in F3 against teams that were much better and more experienced in the series. He finished 5th that year and had a falling out with McLaren that almost ended his relationship with them. Simply by moving to the dominant ASM team the following season; he went on to win 15 of the 21 races and dominate the championship.

Placing the proper amount of focus on positioning yourself favorably within a series is just good sense.


So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Yeah the championship shouldn't allow champions to race again in the following year at least, like F2.

This could define what the series becomes:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

I would say that provided the prize money for winning is actually enough to buy you a seat in F3 otherwise then it becomes entirely pointless beyond women just competing against other women.

_________________
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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:15 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
Having read a few past interviews with her, this daughter of multi-millionaires has some issues with rich guys. 'When you're competing with guys who have bottomless pockets...' Stroll is mentioned elsewhere in a negative way.
Maybe the journey the likes of LeClerc, Vettel, Schumacher, Button, Hamilton,Alonso, etc. had to take isn't for the likes of her?

She has to know that she simply hasn't the talent to make it that way hence in part the need to be in the very best team?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:20 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:27 am 
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pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Having read a few past interviews with her, this daughter of multi-millionaires has some issues with rich guys. 'When you're competing with guys who have bottomless pockets...' Stroll is mentioned elsewhere in a negative way.
Maybe the journey the likes of LeClerc, Vettel, Schumacher, Button, Hamilton,Alonso, etc. had to take isn't for the likes of her?

She has to know that she simply hasn't the talent to make it that way hence in part the need to be in the very best team?


I think that's where she might be slightly misguided in her assessment of the situation though. Unless she's in a YDP & has solid results behind her, what chance has she got at getting a top drive?

If she throws $1m at Prema for a drive, would Ferrari, RB, Merc or Renault baulk at topping that for 1 of their drivers who'd be much better credentialed anyway? Even if she did manage to buy her way into Hitech or ART for example, could we really expect her to be competitive against her team mates at the sharp end of the grid?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Having read a few past interviews with her, this daughter of multi-millionaires has some issues with rich guys. 'When you're competing with guys who have bottomless pockets...' Stroll is mentioned elsewhere in a negative way.
Maybe the journey the likes of LeClerc, Vettel, Schumacher, Button, Hamilton,Alonso, etc. had to take isn't for the likes of her?

She has to know that she simply hasn't the talent to make it that way hence in part the need to be in the very best team?


I think that's where she might be slightly misguided in her assessment of the situation though. Unless she's in a YDP & has solid results behind her, what chance has she got at getting a top drive?

If she throws $1m at Prema for a drive, would Ferrari, RB, Merc or Renault baulk at topping that for 1 of their drivers who'd be much better credentialed anyway? Even if she did manage to buy her way into Hitech or ART for example, could we really expect her to be competitive against her team mates at the sharp end of the grid?

Yeah it can be a bit like F1 the better the team then invariably the better the teammate but then again the logic might be if she drive for Prema then even though she gets beat by her teammates she might get top 6 results and then she can sell that going forward?

However like as been mentioned most will be looking at how she performs relative to her teammates regardless the team she drives for, if she does well in comparison then she can then progress her career.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:54 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The thing is though Hamilton did finish 5th and won a race and not a reverse grid race at that, when has a women come even close to emulating that?


Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.

Without a doubt, the sponsorship opportunities for a competitive female driver I would say far exceeds that of an equivalent talented male driver, Danica Patrick pays testament to that.


Danica Patrick is pretty much why I have doubts over this series as a tool to get girls racing karts. Patrick is possibly the most high profile racing driver in the states over the last 20 years. If having a viable role model is what was required then we would be getting female drivers starting to break through in America. And we aren't.

Good point.


There's actually quite a few women racing in the US , particularly in the lower stock nascar type series. Just that like elsewhere, they're not winning and therefore not progressing.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

So how did the drivers who are in the top teams now get there?

Did they buy their way in or was there some other factor that may have convinced the team owners to give them the drive?

Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Yeah the championship shouldn't allow champions to race again in the following year at least, like F2.

This could define what the series becomes:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

I would say that provided the prize money for winning is actually enough to buy you a seat in F3 otherwise then it becomes entirely pointless beyond women just competing against other women.


If its about having enough prize money to buy a seat then the whole thing is pointless anyway, both from a female driver perspective, and from a talent perspective. All the winner would be doing is buying a seat that would have gone to someone with more talent.

And if the series develops like most feeder series do, those who matter will spot the talent to invest in and develop them wherever they finish in the field anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:57 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Basically this. If she does a decent job in a bad team in F3 she'll definitely get picked up in an F1 junior team which will lead to a drive in a better team.

Without a doubt, the sponsorship opportunities for a competitive female driver I would say far exceeds that of an equivalent talented male driver, Danica Patrick pays testament to that.


Danica Patrick is pretty much why I have doubts over this series as a tool to get girls racing karts. Patrick is possibly the most high profile racing driver in the states over the last 20 years. If having a viable role model is what was required then we would be getting female drivers starting to break through in America. And we aren't.

Good point.


There's actually quite a few women racing in the US , particularly in the lower stock nascar type series. Just that like elsewhere, they're not winning and therefore not progressing.

So there has perhaps been a few that have been inspired by Patrick?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:05 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Quite a few are F1 junior drivers, normally to get into the scheme you are spotted as a talent, here are the top 6 drivers:-

1. Robert Shartzman - Ferrari junior academy
2. Juri Vips - Red Bull junior
3. Jehan Daruvala - A product of Force India to find an Indian F1 driver
4. Marcus Armstrong - I thought he was part of the Ferrari academy but he's just shown as being managed by Nichola Todt who has close links with Ferrari.
5. Christian Lungaard - Renault academy
6. Max Fewtrell - Renault academy


Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Yeah the championship shouldn't allow champions to race again in the following year at least, like F2.

This could define what the series becomes:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

I would say that provided the prize money for winning is actually enough to buy you a seat in F3 otherwise then it becomes entirely pointless beyond women just competing against other women.


If its about having enough prize money to buy a seat then the whole thing is pointless anyway, both from a female driver perspective, and from a talent perspective. All the winner would be doing is buying a seat that would have gone to someone with more talent.

And if the series develops like most feeder series do, those who matter will spot the talent to invest in and develop them wherever they finish in the field anyway.

Not necessarily there are some drivers that get seats merely because of their rich Daddies, I get your point though that if any of these women had serious talent there would be no problems getting sponsorship.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place


Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Armstrong's still listed as an academy driver on the Ferrari driver academy site.

What I was fishing for poker was a concession that it'll actually take more than Chadwick's $$$ to get her a drive in the top teams as she seems to think that's all she'll need.

Considering her comment i'd not be surprised if she's done her dash getting an F3 drive. She's basically told 7 teams that they're no good & she's not interested in driving for them &, to her surprise, she might find the top F3 teams actually have no need or interest in employing her.

The W series was established to give women a path to F1, & if Chadwick, after winning the inaugural series, hangs around for a 2nd crack it won't be a good advertisement for her & it certainly won't be a good advertisement for the validity of the series.

Yeah the championship shouldn't allow champions to race again in the following year at least, like F2.

This could define what the series becomes:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

I would say that provided the prize money for winning is actually enough to buy you a seat in F3 otherwise then it becomes entirely pointless beyond women just competing against other women.


If its about having enough prize money to buy a seat then the whole thing is pointless anyway, both from a female driver perspective, and from a talent perspective. All the winner would be doing is buying a seat that would have gone to someone with more talent.

And if the series develops like most feeder series do, those who matter will spot the talent to invest in and develop them wherever they finish in the field anyway.

Not necessarily there are some drivers that get seats merely because of their rich Daddies, I get your point though that if any of these women had serious talent there would be no problems getting sponsorship.


There are two ways into F1 these days. Either be backed with 10's of Millions of pounds or get a place on a junior team and win championships in junior formula.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I would say that provided the prize money for winning is actually enough to buy you a seat in F3 otherwise then it becomes entirely pointless beyond women just competing against other women.


If its about having enough prize money to buy a seat then the whole thing is pointless anyway, both from a female driver perspective, and from a talent perspective. All the winner would be doing is buying a seat that would have gone to someone with more talent.

And if the series develops like most feeder series do, those who matter will spot the talent to invest in and develop them wherever they finish in the field anyway.

Not necessarily there are some drivers that get seats merely because of their rich Daddies, I get your point though that if any of these women had serious talent there would be no problems getting sponsorship.


There are two ways into F1 these days. Either be backed with 10's of Millions of pounds or get a place on a junior team and win championships in junior formula.

With that it's interesting to see the drivers with talent tend to be backed by F1 junior programs.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:25 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?


Yeah F2 is weak (save perhaps Hubert) but we don't know about F3 yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's stronger this year than last.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:33 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Yeah I don't think it's likely that she'll be an F1-level performer but I'd like to see her given a shot in a top feeder series with one of the top teams in that series. Let's get it over with. Either she has it or she doesn't. Going into the F2 series or the FIA F3 series and racing for one of the midfield teams would just leave question marks.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?

That's true but a great deal of these kids didn't come close to doing anything in previous series so I have a difficult time imagining that even a few will set the world ablaze with performances that would distinguish them as being vastly better than the rest, and fewer than 6 will likely impress enough to catch the attention of F2 teams, much less F1 teams. Having said that, the way Chadwick performed in the W series, I would venture to say at the end of the season, she wasn't the best driver we saw in that series and she was lucky to have been better than the others initially, but once a few others got the hang of the cars Chadwick had to hold on for dear life to win the "championship".

I'm sorry but the W series is the NIT Basketball "Championship" of Jr. Categories.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?


Yeah F2 is weak (save perhaps Hubert) but we don't know about F3 yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's stronger this year than last.

That's my feeling as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:41 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?

That's true but a great deal of these kids didn't come close to doing anything in previous series so I have a difficult time imagining that even a few will set the world ablaze with performances that would distinguish them as being vastly better than the rest, and fewer than 6 will likely impress enough to catch the attention of F2 teams, much less F1 teams. Having said that, the way Chadwick performed in the W series, I would venture to say at the end of the season, she wasn't the best driver we saw in that series and she was lucky to have been better than the others initially, but once a few others got the hang of the cars Chadwick had to hold on for dear life to win the "championship".

I'm sorry but the W series is the NIT Basketball "Championship" of Jr. Categories.

You need to check out Christian Lundgaard's racing record, he's the top rookie at that level of racing and the least experienced but won the opening race of the season, ignore the second place finish that was a silly VSC error, he had a 2 second lead before the VSC.

Lundgaard's gone through the ranks as fast as Norris but unlike Norris not title after title, he has the one blemish were he finished second. Also bear in mind that with the demise of GP3 the present level of F3 is higher than the previous F3 that Norris won, they just share the same monika, I'm not sure that Norris would have beat the GP3 Champion Russell?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
But a season in F3 against top competition (doesn’t seem like many elites for the upcoming season) will show whether she belongs or not. I’m going to say that like 75% of the rest of the drivers, she’ll not be worthy of an F1 drive, but I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not. Lol

Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?


Yeah F2 is weak (save perhaps Hubert) but we don't know about F3 yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's stronger this year than last.


..and Hubert is the best case in point. 8th place on 77 points while teammate Calderon is last with 0 points.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:25 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Are you saying that the current F3 is not strong?

Not as strong as it has been the last couple of years as the best drivers are now in F1.

I would say that's true of F2 but not F3 were we have a new batch of drivers, you can't know how good some of these might turn out?


Yeah F2 is weak (save perhaps Hubert) but we don't know about F3 yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's stronger this year than last.


..and Hubert is the best case in point. 8th place on 77 points while teammate Calderon is last with 0 points.


With Arden, a team of limited recent success. His performances will get him into a better seat for 2020 though. Something Chadwick could do in Formula 3.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:08 am 
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Big call

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.next-female-f1-driver-has-to-be-able-to-take-on-hamilton-or-verstappen.1YGcBrksVffniyqtLyRDh9.html

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:32 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.


I think reading between the lines what he is actually saying is that it's no good having a women F1 driver just because she's a women if she's miles off the pace. It achieves nothing. She needs to be competitive.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.


Well I generally respect DC's opinions - they come from a much more informed position than mine! But I'd need convincing that what we've seen in W Series was enough to convince the driver had the ability to compete in F1.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:59 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.


I think reading between the lines what he is actually saying is that it's no good having a women F1 driver just because she's a women if she's miles off the pace. It achieves nothing. She needs to be competitive.


Then in that case i'd expect her to have made it to F1 solely on merit ,not gender & if that's the case i'd wager she'd have bypassed the W Series to get there.

I don't there's anyone here who would say that a female F1 driver who could mix it with the likes of Perez, Hulkenberg, Magnussen et al, week in, week out, would be considered a failure.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I don't there's anyone here who would say that a female F1 driver who could mix it with the likes of Perez, Hulkenberg, Magnussen et al, week in, week out, would be considered a failure.
Absolutely.

They don't necessarily need to be able to take on Hamilton or Verstappen - that would eliminate half the current male grid!

If a female racer can enter F1 and be a solid midfield driver then that is more than acceptable (in my opinion at least) and they would make a very successful career out of it too I'm sure :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:09 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:
..and Hubert is the best case in point. 8th place on 77 points while teammate Calderon is last with 0 points.


With Arden, a team of limited recent success. His performances will get him into a better seat for 2020 though. Something Chadwick could do in Formula 3.


Exactly - so that's where I understand Chadwicks thoughts on F3, I still think a driver can potentially make an impression in a lesser team. In some ways it has more potential. If you get decent results people will credit the driver, if not you blame the car. If you go into a top team there's an immediate pressure and even driving to a high standard will only deliver the "expected" results. So much too depends on your teammate. Following Schunior's progress for example it looks OK but the benchmark is Galeal.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.


I think reading between the lines what he is actually saying is that it's no good having a women F1 driver just because she's a women if she's miles off the pace. It achieves nothing. She needs to be competitive.

It's big jump from being competitive to being at the same level as a Lewis Hamilton as DC said he wanted to see.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:31 pm 
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SteveW wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
I don't there's anyone here who would say that a female F1 driver who could mix it with the likes of Perez, Hulkenberg, Magnussen et al, week in, week out, would be considered a failure.
Absolutely.

They don't necessarily need to be able to take on Hamilton or Verstappen - that would eliminate half the current male grid!

If a female racer can enter F1 and be a solid midfield driver then that is more than acceptable (in my opinion at least) and they would make a very successful career out of it too I'm sure :)

Indeed that's all that Danica Patrick did.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Yeah he seems to make some big claims about how good the drivers actually are, I'm not sure how realistic he is in the goals he sets out and that seems to stem from his starting point of over estimating the ability of the drivers.


I think reading between the lines what he is actually saying is that it's no good having a women F1 driver just because she's a women if she's miles off the pace. It achieves nothing. She needs to be competitive.

It's big jump from being competitive to being at the same level as a Lewis Hamilton as DC said he wanted to see.


I think you need to look at the point he's making rather than taking the words literally.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:02 pm 
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Just come across this article. Not sure if this is the appropriate thread. Sad story nonetheless

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/land-speed-records/fastest-woman-four-wheels-jessi-combs-killed-record-attempt


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Katherine Legge has apparently applied for next season’s WS, I really don’t get that one. She will be 40 and we’ll beyond the official criteria of giving young women a chance in motorsport.

If she just wants the £500k to pay for another year somewhere else, I guess it makes sense from her POV but then what.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:13 pm 
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Legge might have something to prove or disprove though…
That she is either an elite among female drivers or that they're all of similar caliber and she's been overhyped her entire career simply because of her gender.
IDK her caliber exactly these days, but in her earlier career in ChampCar she had a few outings where she looked pretty quick. I stopped following the series
and lost track of her so not sure how she's stacked up to the gents, but this should prove to be an interesting experiment. I wish her luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Katherine Legge has apparently applied for next season’s WS, I really don’t get that one. She will be 40 and we’ll beyond the official criteria of giving young women a chance in motorsport.

If she just wants the £500k to pay for another year somewhere else, I guess it makes sense from her POV but then what.


That is odd. Legge is a class act who has achieved so much already, surely at this stage her career isn't about going up against teenagers trying to get a break? If anything she in a position to be helping with their careers! She's done Formula Ford, NASCAR, Champ, Formula E, DTM... hardly someone in need of a break.

If it's just for the ££ that's not good and hopefully the selection process will pick that up. I can't see how someone like her fits the bill with what W Series is trying to achieve? And if she did compete and went on to win I don't think it would reflect well on the series.

Huge respect for Legge, but I don't get this at all.

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