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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:02 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
So Hamilton couldn't have cared less that his teammate crashed heavily right in front of him. Well I guess they weren't fast enough with the flags but in such obvious situations you shouldn't wait for the flags IMO.


Hamilton did report not accelerating till after he passed Valtteri's car. There was no flag for the incident when Lewis passed the scene.
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Hamilton was the first driver to pass Bottas’s crashed car. “Valtteri was just ahead of me,” he said. “So I came around the corner and I saw bits on the ground.

“There was no flag at the time and I saw bits on the ground and I was quite hesitant because obviously something had happened ahead. And so I wasn’t I hesitated getting back on power. And by the time I realised that there was a crash, I was basically past it.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/26/ham ... -incident/

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
So Hamilton couldn't have cared less that his teammate crashed heavily right in front of him. Well I guess they weren't fast enough with the flags but in such obvious situations you shouldn't wait for the flags IMO.


In fairness if you actually witness the accident and can see a very clear and safe path through it's dangerous to keep going. It's not like coming across an accident and not knowing the full picture.


How did he know there was a 100% safe passageway through?


I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
So Hamilton couldn't have cared less that his teammate crashed heavily right in front of him. Well I guess they weren't fast enough with the flags but in such obvious situations you shouldn't wait for the flags IMO.


In fairness if you actually witness the accident and can see a very clear and safe path through it's dangerous to keep going. It's not like coming across an accident and not knowing the full picture.


How did he know there was a 100% safe passageway through?


I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

In fairness if you actually witness the accident and can see a very clear and safe path through it's dangerous to keep going. It's not like coming across an accident and not knowing the full picture.


How did he know there was a 100% safe passageway through?


I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.

Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:33 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

How did he know there was a 100% safe passageway through?


I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.

Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:36 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.

Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?

Yes.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:44 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

I was under the impression he saw the accident?

Now we don't have marshals on a live circuit the main reason it's important for drivers to adhere to yellow flags is that they may need to stop if something's blocking the track. If you actually see the accident happen you know the track isn't blocked.


So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.

Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?


Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:56 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

So he was 100% sure there was no debris on the track which could have caused him a problem?


Well that can never been guaranteed. Yellow flags or not. It looks to be a moot point anyway.

Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?


Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?


I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:16 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?


Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?


I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:25 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Well that was my point. Yellow flags or not he knew it may not be safe to push.


Any less safe than normal?


Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?


I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

Any less safe than normal?


Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?


I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

Do you agree with a penalty for Max? If so, why do you think he deserves one?


I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:38 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.


Were you not earlier when stating that if Max saw the accident he would know there was safe passage through the area of the track the accident took place?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:46 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.


Were you not earlier when stating that if Max saw the accident he would know there was safe passage through the area of the track the accident took place?


No, that was Hamilton I was talking about not Verstappen. I was responding to Covalent saying Hamilton should have slowed down despite their being no yellow flags.

Verstappen didn't see the accident and did have yellow flags.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:47 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.


Were you not earlier when stating that if Max saw the accident he would know there was safe passage through the area of the track the accident took place?


No, that was Hamilton I was talking about not Verstappen. I was responding to Covalent saying Hamilton should have slowed down despite their being no yellow flags.

Verstappen didn't see the accident and did have yellow flags.


Thanks for clearing that up.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree with it because he ignored yellow flags.


But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.

If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:50 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

But you feel that a driver should be able to drive as fast as they like past a yellow flag if they think it's safe?


No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.

If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.


Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
No I've never said that? Covalent and I were discussing Hamilton who had no yellow flags.


Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.

If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.


Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.

That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:12 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:

Appologies if I am misunderstanding you. It just seemed that don't think Max did anything unsafe. He broke rules but was not unsafe


Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.

If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.


Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.

That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.


It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:33 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Well I wasn't talking about Max.

But if you want to talk about Max we can do. What he didn't wasn't actually unsafe but he wasn't in a position to make that call from inside the car. Which is why we have yellow flags and it's imperative they are observed. I've always argued for this. It's the drivers refusal to adhere to waved yellow flags that means we have to endure the farce that is the "safety" car.

The only thing I've grumbled about in relation to Max's penalty is the lack of consistency.

If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.


Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.

That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.


It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.

I don't believe Masi, I originally heard that Verstappen wasn't being investigated because his last mini sector was slower than before and that was proof that he slowed.

Both Brawn and his Dad Jos have said that it was a mistake for Verstappen to have spoken like he did, make no mistake that is why I believe he got penalised.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
If you are still comparing with Bottas, first I don't believe Bottas was asked about slowing down under yellows and secondly wasn't able to respond that he didn't slow down.


Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.

That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.


It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.

I don't believe Masi, I originally heard that Verstappen wasn't being investigated because his last mini sector was slower than before and that was proof that he slowed.

Both Brawn and his Dad Jos have said that it was a mistake for Verstappen to have spoken like he did, make no mistake that is why I believe he got penalised.


I'm sorry but I think Masi would know a bit more about the timeline of events than you.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Max got a penalty for not slowing under the yellow flags neither did Bottas. The fact that Max would not have got a penalty had he not been so explicit about it is as bad as anything else.

That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.


It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.

I don't believe Masi, I originally heard that Verstappen wasn't being investigated because his last mini sector was slower than before and that was proof that he slowed.

Both Brawn and his Dad Jos have said that it was a mistake for Verstappen to have spoken like he did, make no mistake that is why I believe he got penalised.


I'm sorry but I think Masi would know a bit more about the timeline of events than you.

I just don't believe him or trust his judgement in certain matters, when Leclerc crashed into Verstappen initially there was nothing to investigate for instance.

If Verstappen was always going to be penalised why was what he said considered to be a mistake by both Brawn and Jos, the investigation was announced after what Verstappen had said after initially hearing that he was clear of no wrong doing because of his slower last mini sector was proof that he had backed off.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:39 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That's not the stewards being inconsistent though, just the stewards being consistently bad.


It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.

I don't believe Masi, I originally heard that Verstappen wasn't being investigated because his last mini sector was slower than before and that was proof that he slowed.

Both Brawn and his Dad Jos have said that it was a mistake for Verstappen to have spoken like he did, make no mistake that is why I believe he got penalised.


I'm sorry but I think Masi would know a bit more about the timeline of events than you.

I just don't believe him or trust his judgement in certain matters, when Leclerc crashed into Verstappen initially there was nothing to investigate for instance.

If Verstappen was always going to be penalised why was what he said considered to be a mistake by both Brawn and Jos, the investigation was announced after what Verstappen had said after initially hearing that he was clear of no wrong doing because of his slower last mini sector was proof that he had backed off.


Take a look at the explanation - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14685 ... -explained.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Rosberg mirrors my thoughts regarding the qualifying incident and how Hamilton got no penalty just because they weren't fast enough with the flags. Right at the beginning of the video.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's inconsistent that the same offence has different outcomes in terms of punishment. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

I note Massi saying that Verytappen's comments had no impact on their decision to penalise Verstappen.

I don't believe Masi, I originally heard that Verstappen wasn't being investigated because his last mini sector was slower than before and that was proof that he slowed.

Both Brawn and his Dad Jos have said that it was a mistake for Verstappen to have spoken like he did, make no mistake that is why I believe he got penalised.


I'm sorry but I think Masi would know a bit more about the timeline of events than you.

I just don't believe him or trust his judgement in certain matters, when Leclerc crashed into Verstappen initially there was nothing to investigate for instance.

If Verstappen was always going to be penalised why was what he said considered to be a mistake by both Brawn and Jos, the investigation was announced after what Verstappen had said after initially hearing that he was clear of no wrong doing because of his slower last mini sector was proof that he had backed off.


Take a look at the explanation - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14685 ... -explained.

I don't have full access to the article, I'm just recalling what I heard that initially Verstappen was given the all clear from the stewards explaining that with his last mini sector being slower than his previous lap they were then happy that he had slowed enough.

https://twitter.com/JennieGow/status/11 ... 1120378880

Without access to the article and seeing how other incidents have been dealt with post Canada I'm highly sceptical with any processes being explained away by Masi and why did it take 3 and a half hours, it took 10 seconds to deal with the last lap incident between Kvyat and the Hulk.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhilDuncanF1 ... 26241?s=19

Then I look at what happened in Japan were the stewards said that Vettel's car stopped rolling forward before the red lights went out, evidence has come forward that this was not the case so no I choose not to believe Masi's version of events.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Covalent wrote:

Rosberg mirrors my thoughts regarding the qualifying incident and how Hamilton got no penalty just because they weren't fast enough with the flags. Right at the beginning of the video.

You're supposing that Hamilton would not have lifted after seeing the yellow flag?

What I took from it was that what Vettel did at the start of the race was against the rules but nothing from the stewards not even a black and white flag or some kind of warning.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:26 pm 
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It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.

I don't think you can criticize him for that. You could (although I personally wouldn't) criticize him for not taking his own initiative to abort the lap after seeing Bottas crash, however.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.

I don't think you can criticize him for that. You could (although I personally wouldn't) criticize him for not taking his own initiative to abort the lap after seeing Bottas crash, however.


I don't think you would fairly.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.

I don't think you can criticize him for that. You could (although I personally wouldn't) criticize him for not taking his own initiative to abort the lap after seeing Bottas crash, however.


But isn't that the point, Hamilton came round the corner and 'discovered' the crash being the following driver, he didn't see VB actually crash. Yellows are warning flags for drivers who can't see what's coming.

As for Rosberg's video, what an idiot..... you can't have rules in place then ignore them simply to make F1 more exciting. Congratulating F1 on ignoring Vettel then congratulating F1 again on ignoring Hamilton and Verstappen when they both made errors and took to the grass when either MV nor LH did anything wrong.

F1 needs to decide, have rules and enforce them fairly or consistently or let them all play cowboys! I really don't see why you cant have have the same 3 stewards adjudicating immediately via video link all season long being external and away from the circuit.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.

I don't think you can criticize him for that. You could (although I personally wouldn't) criticize him for not taking his own initiative to abort the lap after seeing Bottas crash, however.


But isn't that the point, Hamilton came round the corner and 'discovered' the crash being the following driver, he didn't see VB actually crash. Yellows are warning flags for drivers who can't see what's coming.

As for Rosberg's video, what an idiot..... you can't have rules in place then ignore them simply to make F1 more exciting. Congratulating F1 on ignoring Vettel then congratulating F1 again on ignoring Hamilton and Verstappen when they both made errors and took to the grass when either MV nor LH did anything wrong.

F1 needs to decide, have rules and enforce them fairly or consistently or let them all play cowboys! I really don't see why you cant have have the same 3 stewards adjudicating immediately via video link all season long being external and away from the circuit.


They've become terrified of penalising anything. It's like they've thrown their toys out of the pram after Canada TBH.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Invade wrote:
Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really


Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Invade wrote:
Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really


Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


Sorry, I'd just brought it up a few times before. It wasn't meant to be aggressive.

My point was the stewards are inconsistent applying penalties. Even penalties around safety as the free pass Bottas was granted proves.

I agree it's not right.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:

Rosberg mirrors my thoughts regarding the qualifying incident and how Hamilton got no penalty just because they weren't fast enough with the flags. Right at the beginning of the video.

You're supposing that Hamilton would not have lifted after seeing the yellow flag?

What I took from it was that what Vettel did at the start of the race was against the rules but nothing from the stewards not even a black and white flag or some kind of warning.

I'm sure he would have, which is the issue. I'm not saying he did anything punishable (unethical perhaps) but maybe the rules should need some rewording. If the goal is safety then you should make the drivers slow down in obvious situations such as this even though the flags haven't come out yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:30 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really


Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


Sorry, I'd just brought it up a few times before. It wasn't meant to be aggressive.

My point was the stewards are inconsistent applying penalties. Even penalties around safety as the free pass Bottas was granted proves.

I agree it's not right.

Ah, I see, that's fine, I didn't read the whole thread, I wouldn't repeat it otherwise.

I totally agree that they are inconsistent when it comes to penalties. But they are not infallible I guess


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:41 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's pretty clear Hamilton did nothing wrong here and personally I think comments trying to be critical of him here reflect pretty badly on the person posting them.

No fair or balanced commentator could criticise a driver for ignoring a non existent yellow flag.

I don't think you can criticize him for that. You could (although I personally wouldn't) criticize him for not taking his own initiative to abort the lap after seeing Bottas crash, however.


But isn't that the point, Hamilton came round the corner and 'discovered' the crash being the following driver, he didn't see VB actually crash. Yellows are warning flags for drivers who can't see what's coming.

As for Rosberg's video, what an idiot..... you can't have rules in place then ignore them simply to make F1 more exciting. Congratulating F1 on ignoring Vettel then congratulating F1 again on ignoring Hamilton and Verstappen when they both made errors and took to the grass when either MV nor LH did anything wrong.

F1 needs to decide, have rules and enforce them fairly or consistently or let them all play cowboys! I really don't see why you cant have have the same 3 stewards adjudicating immediately via video link all season long being external and away from the circuit.


They've become terrified of penalising anything. It's like they've thrown their toys out of the pram after Canada TBH.

Indeed the stewarding has fallen apart post Canada.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:43 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really


Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


Sorry, I'd just brought it up a few times before. It wasn't meant to be aggressive.

My point was the stewards are inconsistent applying penalties. Even penalties around safety as the free pass Bottas was granted proves.

I agree it's not right.

Was the Bottas incident under the stewardship of Whiting or Masi?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really


Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


Sorry, I'd just brought it up a few times before. It wasn't meant to be aggressive.

My point was the stewards are inconsistent applying penalties. Even penalties around safety as the free pass Bottas was granted proves.

I agree it's not right.

Was the Bottas incident under the stewardship of Whiting or Masi?


Masi. It was Italy this year.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:

Rosberg mirrors my thoughts regarding the qualifying incident and how Hamilton got no penalty just because they weren't fast enough with the flags. Right at the beginning of the video.

You're supposing that Hamilton would not have lifted after seeing the yellow flag?

What I took from it was that what Vettel did at the start of the race was against the rules but nothing from the stewards not even a black and white flag or some kind of warning.

I'm sure he would have, which is the issue. I'm not saying he did anything punishable (unethical perhaps) but maybe the rules should need some rewording. If the goal is safety then you should make the drivers slow down in obvious situations such as this even though the flags haven't come out yet.

I think driving to the flags is good enough, actually overly slowing down can cause problems of it's own in a race situation were drivers behind get caught out by slowing cars and then you have a pile up, not too dissimilar to what happened to the late Hubert, at least with a flag system on their steering wheel they're given good warning.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

Going unpunished doesn't make it right.

And what's with the "again"? Did we have this conversation before? Why did my comment cause you so much discomfort?


Sorry, I'd just brought it up a few times before. It wasn't meant to be aggressive.

My point was the stewards are inconsistent applying penalties. Even penalties around safety as the free pass Bottas was granted proves.

I agree it's not right.

Was the Bottas incident under the stewardship of Whiting or Masi?


Masi. It was Italy this year.

That's interesting because under Whiting surely his lap would have been disqualified, after the Austrian double yellow flags incident in 2016 when Rosberg got pole by simply hardly slowing down, drivers questioned what was required of them under yellow flag situations. Whiting determined that with a yellow flag you back off by 2 tenths in the corner, double waved yellow flags you back off by 5 tenths in the corner.

In light of the Verstappen incident Masi was asked if the Whiting rule still applied to which he said no, he had no wish to set a target to which the drivers then simply drive to, so we see with the Bottas incident a slight lift under yellow flags is sufficient, fair to say the stewarding has gone downhill.

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