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Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edition
https://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15695
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Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edition

Back in 2014, this thread was created with a poll asking which driver, from Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, would finish their career with the most wins. Believe it or not, at the time Lewis actually had the least victories out of all three, however it is now looking pretty much guaranteed that Lewis will not only end his career with the most victories amongst those three drivers, but the most in F1 history.

So let's have a new poll, because the next generation of drivers has been emerging in the last couple of years, the guys who are going to be winning races long after Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have retired. I've included five of them in the poll. The obvious pair of Verstappen and Leclerc, Alex Albon, Lando Norris and George Russell. I've also included an "other" option just in case anyone feels really strongly about Lance Stroll...

Obviously they've all got the majority of their careers ahead of them, and there are lots of unknowns which will directly influence who'll win the most races (in fact it is entirely possible than in four or five years time, someone who is better than all of them has come through the feeder series), but I thought it might be interesting to do this poll now regardless!

Author:  MistaVega23 [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

A difficult one to predict at this point in time - who would've thought Lewis would rise above the rest back in 2014?

My gut feeling is Charles, although if Russell gets to be the heir apparent to Lewis once he retires then he's got a shot as well.

Max - depends where he ends up.

Norris and Albon? Both might end up with a handful of wins each.

Looking forward to reading this thread in 5 years' time!

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Of these guys I think I'm going to lean towards Leclerc because of the team he's with. Red Bull could at any time pull the plug on F1 and walk away whereas Ferrari are here to stay, regardless of their idle threats to leave if things aren't done how they like.

Also, I think there should be another driver on there… Sainz

Author:  Exediron [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Hard to choose between Leclerc and Verstappen. I ended up going for Max, but it could go either way depending on who ends up in the best car sooner.

I called it correctly with Lewis, but that's because I correctly saw that he was going to rack up the numbers at Mercedes. If the poll had been held in 2013, I don't know that I would have got it right -- and either way I would never have guessed how high his total would go.

Author:  WHoff78 [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

This is a tough call. Based on ability I would expect to see Verstappen rise to the top and rack up the wins, but LeClerc has other attributes and marketability along with enough ability that will go a long way. Hamilton had ability and marketability to match, so shouldn’t really be much of a surprise he has achieved what he has. It seemed clear to many from 2007 that he would go on to great things, but doubt crept in as Red Bull & Vettel began to dominate.

Ocon could well find himself on that list too. He has a respectable drive at Renault with a very solid barometer in DR. If he comes out on top there he will be firmly on the radar of Mercedes and the other big teams.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Some of us will be dead before this one is decided lol. I'd have to bet on Max all things considered, although Charles might take an early lead in the next couple of years.

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

George Russell is the one heading for that Mercedes seat, and Mercedes seems to be the team with the highest longevity in retaining their drivers.

But if they were in the same cars... probably Max.

Author:  Mort Canard [ Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Max has not shown any consistency in his wins. He sneaks in and grabs one when the opportunities are right, much like his former teammate Ricciardo. Max has also never posted more than two victories in any one year in F1. He will need to do much better. If he can win Mexico this year he would then have three wins in 2019 which would be a first for him.

Charles's winning ways have only started and we will have to see if he can show any consistency in posting victories. He will have to beat the Merc boys and keep Vettel at bay. With two wins in a row he seems to be on a roll.

A lot of variables here but my hunch says the odds point to Charles as having the better career.

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

Charles makes far more of those. Max, for me, has a bit more in the area of racecraft and skill. In terms of raw pace I think it's probably close (particularly in qualifying trim). I can guess that Max has Charles beat by a tenth or so but it's really just a guess.

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

It's just my opinion, I guess it's still early days for Leclerc but presently I think Verstappen is better, Russell is also very good but still largely unproven until he gets a better car.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

Charles makes far more of those. Max, for me, has a bit more in the area of racecraft and skill. In terms of raw pace I think it's probably close (particularly in qualifying trim). I can guess that Max has Charles beat by a tenth or so but it's really just a guess.

No way does Leclerc make many more errors than Verstappen. Comparatively Leclerc has 2 seasons in f1 to Verstappen’s 5 and Verstappen is consistently excellent for a few
Races and then either tries too hard and makes a mistake or just doesn’t think and acts and ends up in situations that result in mistakes, like his clash with Ocon last year.

Author:  pokerman [ Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

Charles makes far more of those. Max, for me, has a bit more in the area of racecraft and skill. In terms of raw pace I think it's probably close (particularly in qualifying trim). I can guess that Max has Charles beat by a tenth or so but it's really just a guess.

No way does Leclerc make many more errors than Verstappen. Comparatively Leclerc has 2 seasons in f1 to Verstappen’s 5 and a Verstappen is consistently excellent for a few
Races and then either tried too hard and makes a mistake or just doesn’t think and acts and ends up in situations that result in mistakes, like his clash with Ocon last year.

Well just going by this year Leclerc has made more errors than Verstappen, but given Leclerc's inexperience that's perhaps understandable?

Author:  sandman1347 [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I go with the one with the biggest talent and that's Max Verstappen, he will first give Red Bull and Honda fair chance to provide him with a WDC capable car, this is basically only the alliance's first year.

If they fall short again next year, and quite badly at that, then as far as I'm aware he will have an option to drive for Mercedes in 2021.

How do you "know" Verstappen is the biggest talent?

Certainly he's quite talented, but have we had a significant enough amount of head to head battles with Leclerc or Russel (I'm not buying the George Russel Koolaid just yet) to make such an assessment? Leclerc is looking better IMPO though in spots Max shines!… Right up to the point he makes dumb unforced errors.

Charles makes far more of those. Max, for me, has a bit more in the area of racecraft and skill. In terms of raw pace I think it's probably close (particularly in qualifying trim). I can guess that Max has Charles beat by a tenth or so but it's really just a guess.

No way does Leclerc make many more errors than Verstappen. Comparatively Leclerc has 2 seasons in f1 to Verstappen’s 5 and Verstappen is consistently excellent for a few
Races and then either tries too hard and makes a mistake or just doesn’t think and acts and ends up in situations that result in mistakes, like his clash with Ocon last year.

I'm just going by the numbers. Leclerc makes more errors than Max at the moment. It's true that he has less F1 experience but they are the same age.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

I don’t think that’s accurate. If anything they are pretty equal but Leclerc it seems will learn more quickly to think better of situations rather than act out of arrogance and an idgaf attitude. He’s shown he’s more mature in his entire approach to everything. That will allow him to win more consistently than Verstappen, but I will say their styles, ability, and history eerily remind me of Senna and Prost.

Author:  Exediron [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

sandman1347 wrote:
I'm just going by the numbers. Leclerc makes more errors than Max at the moment. It's true that he has less F1 experience but they are the same age.

I'd have to say experience is a lot more important than age.

Author:  Yellowbin74 [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Voted for Max, but I got the 2014 one wrong so who knows !!

Author:  Herb [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Can we take the Fuel discussion elsewhere - its well off topic...

Author:  Mod Aqua [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

Herb wrote:
Can we take the Fuel discussion elsewhere - its well off topic...

You are correct. I will split this int its own thread.

Fossil fuel discussion now in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15700

Author:  sandman1347 [ Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I don’t think that’s accurate. If anything they are pretty equal but Leclerc it seems will learn more quickly to think better of situations rather than act out of arrogance and an idgaf attitude. He’s shown he’s more mature in his entire approach to everything. That will allow him to win more consistently than Verstappen, but I will say their styles, ability, and history eerily remind me of Senna and Prost.

Well if we look at this season; Leclerc had that crash in Baku during qualifying then he crashed during the race in Monaco and crashed during the race in Germany. That's a lot of big mistakes for one season. Max only really had one that was big and that was Spa. In Italy he had a costly collision and he earned that penalty in Monaco but I struggle to think of a reasonable argument that Max is currently making more mistakes. Perhaps if you only look at the last two races...

Author:  -K- [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

I was between Max and Charles but just I think Max just edges it in terms of natural talent. He has also matured, whereas I started to wonder in Monza whether Leclerc might be at risk of heading the other way.

I don’t think it’ll be George at the moment - I can’t see him going straight from Williams to Mercedes at any point unless Williams move back up the table, and I think it’s only a matter of time until Mercedes have a down period.

Author:  Exediron [ Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

-K- wrote:
I was between Max and Charles but just I think Max just edges it in terms of natural talent. He has also matured, whereas I started to wonder in Monza whether Leclerc might be at risk of heading the other way.

I didn't see anything from Leclerc in Monza that I don't also think Max would have done. One could argue that slightly dirty decisions (not helping your teammate in qualifying, running a rival off the road) are precisely the sort of hallmarks you need to get high up on the all-time wins list.

Author:  Battle Far [ Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

sandman1347 wrote:
Some of us will be dead before this one is decided lol.
Oi! :x I resemble that remark...

Le Clerc simply because Ferrari will always be near the front and he's there already

Verstappen if he manages the move from Red Bull correctly when they pull out of F1.

Author:  A_Game_A_Day [ Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who will end their career with the most wins - 2019 edit

From what I've seen, my belief is that Max is more ruthless & attacking than Charles, so that would make me say Max.

But think this will come down to luck - given there is nearly always one dominant team (even if only in terms of performance, not necessarily results), I think it'll come down to that:
- Ferrari are in the ascendency, if they maintain it next season, Charles is already in the right place to benefit
- Could Honda find some magic to push Red Bull into that position benefitting Max?
- If Mercedes adapt to 2021 rules, and Max ends up there (as he's seems favourite to compared with Charles), he gains

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