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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:43 pm 
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two articles on indy car continuing to develop a screen/halo combo. with input from red bull. interesting, at least to me it is

https://racer.com/2019/05/24/pruett-ins ... eroscreen/


https://racer.com/2019/05/24/red-bull-p ... eroscreen/


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 4:21 pm 
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Looks OK but at that stage almost what's the point? Just stick a lid on and be done with it. Either it's open cockpit or it isn't - stop trying to be both.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 4:57 pm 
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For some reason I feel like they should make the cockpit larger in general.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:17 pm 
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As long as they can solve the problem with optical distortion, I have no problem with the Aeroscreen/Halo combination.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:26 pm 
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I really don't see the point of doing that instead of making a canopy. Is it just to satisfy the people who feel F1/Indy should be open cockpit (not that I think it would, it hardly looks open at all)?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:01 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Looks OK but at that stage almost what's the point? Just stick a lid on and be done with it. Either it's open cockpit or it isn't - stop trying to be both.



My thoughts exactly. A cockpit, especially in Indy Cars, seems appropriate. Develop the technology.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:44 pm 
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It looks awful. If they bring that into F1 I'll stop watching and go find a series that uses a traditional halo... ;)

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 4:13 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
It looks awful. If they bring that into F1 I'll stop watching and go find a series that uses a traditional halo... ;)



now that's funny! i'm all for it, if they can make it work.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:12 am 
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I'd rather see this concept get up & going than sticking with the halo. The desire to reduce the chances of the driver being struck by an object as much as possible means a full canopy design should be the ultimate goal. As has been said many times, the halo wouldn't have stopped every accident where something entered the cockpit (Massa, Wilson etc), so they'll keep testing prototypes until they get one that works.

Having said that, there's still a lot of questions surrounding the full canopy concept. Driver extraction, visual distortion & cooling of the cockpit being just 3.

I think there's still a long way to go until we get a fully enclosed cockpit, if we ever do get there.

One thing I do hope they consider if this concept works is that they lower or even remove the current driver side head protection units to expose more of the drivers head.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:42 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
It looks awful. If they bring that into F1 I'll stop watching and go find a series that uses a traditional halo... ;)



now that's funny! i'm all for it, if they can make it work.
wolfticket wrote:
It looks awful. If they bring that into F1 I'll stop watching and go find a series that uses a traditional halo... ;)


:lol:

Great stuff!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I'd rather see this concept get up & going than sticking with the halo. The desire to reduce the chances of the driver being struck by an object as much as possible means a full canopy design should be the ultimate goal. As has been said many times, the halo wouldn't have stopped every accident where something entered the cockpit (Massa, Wilson etc), so they'll keep testing prototypes until they get one that works.

Having said that, there's still a lot of questions surrounding the full canopy concept. Driver extraction, visual distortion & cooling of the cockpit being just 3.

I think there's still a long way to go until we get a fully enclosed cockpit, if we ever do get there.

One thing I do hope they consider if this concept works is that they lower or even remove the current driver side head protection units to expose more of the drivers head.
My first impression is that it is strange to combine a HALO with a windscreen, as this adds the disadvantages of one to those of the other. Apart from weight, it would be fascinating to find which advantages the combination might bring. I'm definitely not against a windscreen as such; there were rather extensive ones on the cars in the 60s and 70s, albeit without safety as their prime objective.

I doubt we will see any reduction in the size of the cockpit coaming height; unless perhaps they might be forced to install airbags instead. Also, if the windscreens are tinted, then we wouldn't be seeing much of the helmets anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
I'd rather see this concept get up & going than sticking with the halo. The desire to reduce the chances of the driver being struck by an object as much as possible means a full canopy design should be the ultimate goal. As has been said many times, the halo wouldn't have stopped every accident where something entered the cockpit (Massa, Wilson etc), so they'll keep testing prototypes until they get one that works.

Having said that, there's still a lot of questions surrounding the full canopy concept. Driver extraction, visual distortion & cooling of the cockpit being just 3.

I think there's still a long way to go until we get a fully enclosed cockpit, if we ever do get there.

One thing I do hope they consider if this concept works is that they lower or even remove the current driver side head protection units to expose more of the drivers head.

Lowering the sides of the cockpit won’t ever happen as there is good reasoning behind it and it’s all about driver safety. The sides are as high and as close as they are in order to eliminate much of the rapid head movements that lead to extreme brain injuries. The current system does not allow the head to whip about too much so that in the event of a violent crash, the head doesn’t whip about too greatly, potentially thrashing the brain about even more extremely. If you lower the sides more incidents like Roland Ratzenburger would occur.

I say with a system like this, the halo within can be modified to eliminate the center Pilar obstructing the view, but fully enclosed would be my preference. It would just have to be open on the sides for venting and a defrosting system would surely have to be devised for wet races and that’s simple enough to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:21 pm 
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https://racer.com/2019/08/14/dixon-set- ... eroscreen/

further testing this fall and winter for the halo/windscreen combo is lined up.

on a side note, it would be nice to see red bull sponsor an indy car


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:36 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
I'd rather see this concept get up & going than sticking with the halo. The desire to reduce the chances of the driver being struck by an object as much as possible means a full canopy design should be the ultimate goal. As has been said many times, the halo wouldn't have stopped every accident where something entered the cockpit (Massa, Wilson etc), so they'll keep testing prototypes until they get one that works.

Having said that, there's still a lot of questions surrounding the full canopy concept. Driver extraction, visual distortion & cooling of the cockpit being just 3.

I think there's still a long way to go until we get a fully enclosed cockpit, if we ever do get there.

One thing I do hope they consider if this concept works is that they lower or even remove the current driver side head protection units to expose more of the drivers head.

Lowering the sides of the cockpit won’t ever happen as there is good reasoning behind it and it’s all about driver safety. The sides are as high and as close as they are in order to eliminate much of the rapid head movements that lead to extreme brain injuries. The current system does not allow the head to whip about too much so that in the event of a violent crash, the head doesn’t whip about too greatly, potentially thrashing the brain about even more extremely. If you lower the sides more incidents like Roland Ratzenburger would occur.

I say with a system like this, the halo within can be modified to eliminate the center Pilar obstructing the view, but fully enclosed would be my preference. It would just have to be open on the sides for venting and a defrosting system would surely have to be devised for wet races and that’s simple enough to do.


Yeah I was thinking the HANS tethers would give enough protection to the head during lateral movements in an impact to allow for the removal of the raised sides should an aero screen be developed but it seems the tethers are only an aid to be used in conjunction with them. They'd be no good by themselves

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:22 pm 
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https://racer.com/2019/10/02/power-dixo ... -race-now/

on track testing at indy with the new halo/screen combo. both drivers say it is good to go, more testing to come with different drivers and teams as time goes on.
looks bulky from the front view, not bad from the side, and really good from the cockpit. bolted on for next season, built into the tub for the next gen car.

i still believe the next gen f1 car willl have this, or something very similar


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:20 pm 
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halo/aeroscreen painted up by ganassi

https://racer.com/2019/12/09/ganassi-re ... reen-look/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:34 pm 
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Think I'd prefer it to be left transparent.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:48 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Think I'd prefer it to be left transparent.

Couldn't agree more


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:17 pm 
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jimmyj wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Think I'd prefer it to be left transparent.

Couldn't agree more

Seems like an odd reduction of visibility. A lot more side to side contact next year?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:28 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
halo/aeroscreen painted up by ganassi

https://racer.com/2019/12/09/ganassi-re ... reen-look/

Just to be clear, this is only for the Indy series, right?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Siao7--yes, that is a 2020 indy car. i'm guessing something very similar will be developed for f1 also


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:03 pm 
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I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:33 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
Siao7--yes, that is a 2020 indy car. i'm guessing something very similar will be developed for f1 also


Ok thank you


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:47 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.



red bull is involved in this aero screen for indy car, they did test it in wet conditions. i imagine f1 will be getting updates from indy car as next season goes along


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:04 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.



red bull is involved in this aero screen for indy car, they did test it in wet conditions. i imagine f1 will be getting updates from indy car as next season goes along


I may be wrong but I thought Indycar only race in the dry?

F1 takes an overly cautious view of racing in the wet at the moment. If the aero screen exacerbates that it shouldn't be used IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.



red bull is involved in this aero screen for indy car, they did test it in wet conditions. i imagine f1 will be getting updates from indy car as next season goes along


I may be wrong but I thought Indycar only race in the dry?

F1 takes an overly cautious view of racing in the wet at the moment. If the aero screen exacerbates that it shouldn't be used IMO.


Apart from the rain, I remember someone who tried it (Vettel I think) that complained that it gave them a bit of a headache, because of the curvature of the glass. I wonder how will they get over this? If it gives some drivers a serious case of the dizzies, then do they allow some cars to omit it? Or is that driver out of his seat from next year?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.



red bull is involved in this aero screen for indy car, they did test it in wet conditions. i imagine f1 will be getting updates from indy car as next season goes along


I may be wrong but I thought Indycar only race in the dry?

F1 takes an overly cautious view of racing in the wet at the moment. If the aero screen exacerbates that it shouldn't be used IMO.


Apart from the rain, I remember someone who tried it (Vettel I think) that complained that it gave them a bit of a headache, because of the curvature of the glass. I wonder how will they get over this? If it gives some drivers a serious case of the dizzies, then do they allow some cars to omit it? Or is that driver out of his seat from next year?


Pilots of jet fighters use similarly curved class screen, as do F1 Powerboats and some drag racing cars. I'm sure there's other things too that are similar. At a guess, I'd imagine the actual curvature of the screen may be an issue and they'll have to try different radiuses to make sure it's fit for the drivers vision, not just safety.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:02 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think before we have it in F1 it should perhaps be trialled in F2 or F3 to see how it works in wet weather.



red bull is involved in this aero screen for indy car, they did test it in wet conditions. i imagine f1 will be getting updates from indy car as next season goes along


I may be wrong but I thought Indycar only race in the dry?

F1 takes an overly cautious view of racing in the wet at the moment. If the aero screen exacerbates that it shouldn't be used IMO.


Apart from the rain, I remember someone who tried it (Vettel I think) that complained that it gave them a bit of a headache, because of the curvature of the glass. I wonder how will they get over this? If it gives some drivers a serious case of the dizzies, then do they allow some cars to omit it? Or is that driver out of his seat from next year?


indy car races in the wet on road and street circuits, not ovals

the first indy car screen from a few years ago caused some vision distortion.

this is a newer version and has been tested in the rain and the dry with positive reviews from multiple drivers


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:42 pm 
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No issues with water on the screens in F1 Powerboat racing!

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
No issues with water on the screens in F1 Powerboat racing!

Image


Fair point. Hopefully it will all be OK.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:58 pm 
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https://www.indycar.com/News/2019/10/10 ... Aeroscreen

link to testing in the wet


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:34 am 
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pc27b wrote:
https://www.indycar.com/News/2019/10/10-07-Cavin-Aeroscreen

link to testing in the wet


Sounds really positive.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:54 am 
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Asphalt/pc27b, thank you for the responses. I was actually thinking of the fighter jets canopies when I was writing this!

I am sure they will get over that (I wasn't aware that they have different designs as pc27b mentions), I was just wondering as we had drivers complaining about it. So if you get a driver that cannot drive with it, can they omit it from his car? I'd say it compromises his safety more if he gets dizzy while driving.

In any case, I find it very weird aesthetically, but we have seen far worse things with the halo or the stepped noses.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Would they still need/have to use visors on their helmets?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Would they still need/have to use visors on their helmets?


I would have thought so, if for no other reason than that of fires. If they vacate the car which i on fire, they'd want the drivers to have full face protection until they are clear of the vehicle.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 pm 
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Hilarious how they are keeping it a 30cm diameter hole in the roof, looks frickin ridiculous at this point man give it a roof. Imagine explaining to new fans who ask "why is there no roof?" "Because y-you know... i-its open cockpit s-so you can see... So the driver is more vis... Like open cock pit you know"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:18 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Hilarious how they are keeping it a 30cm diameter hole in the roof, looks frickin ridiculous at this point man give it a roof. Imagine explaining to new fans who ask "why is there no roof?" "Because y-you know... i-its open cockpit s-so you can see... So the driver is more vis... Like open cock pit you know"

Still allows for a quicker exit than a tin top car.

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